Conference noted::equitation

    From your description, it could be several things. At the risk of
    sounding glib, they might include:
    
    1) She could have had a bad incident before you got her and the memory
    of it causes your problems. Difficult problem to solve; check out the
    other things first
    
    2) She hurts somewhere which makes it difficult/impossible for her to
    canter correctly. Have the vet check her over.
    
    3) She simply doesn't know how to canter correctly; perhaps not even on 
    her own;Melinda has some good experience in this area and discussed her
    ideas in a dressage note reply(Note 10.49). 
    
    4) Perhaps, you're uptight and she's picking up on it. I'm always
    amazed at how quickly my lot pick up the least bit of uncertainty on my
    part or Jan's. Have a chat with yourself and see whether or not that's
    part of the problem. If it is, you'll have to resolve that before you
    can get good work from the horse.
    
    
    
    Good luck
    John

    
    
    Will this horse canter politely on a lunge line?  If not, I would start
    there and get her 'fixed' on the ground before trying a canter with
    someone on her back.  
    

    
    	Was she ever trained to canter? It just sounded to me like she's
    	been trained to drive and if so they would have reprimanded her
    	for cantering...
    

    As someone who retrained a former harness racer who'd been punished for
    cantering, I'd agree with a few back that lunging is the best way to
    start. After eliminating the obvious, of course, such as uncomfortable
    equipment or rider tension. On the lunge she will be far more able to
    learn to balance herself than she will under a rider, her leads will
    come naturally...she will think to herself, "Hm, this ain't so bad!".
    Once she's comfortable and relaxed cantering on the large try under
    saddle again in large circles in an enclosed ring where you won't be
    tense yourself worrying that she might run away with you.
    

Thanks all for your ideas.  1) she has never been trained to drive.  she was 
trained to ride and years ago even did some dressage.  2)  She does canter ok 
on the lunge (well she can....often she throws a fit first then canters fine).
As for my tension....probably yes.  I work on it as I am aware that it is a
problem and do better but it is hard to relax completely when you know at 
any minute it's a wild ride.  The vet thing I will check.  I doubt it is 
that since she can canter on the lunge fine.  Her previous owner had trouble
with this too.  We will keep working the problem and thanks.

Darlene

    Try teaching her voice commands.  I've done this in the past, and it
    gives the horse (and the rider!) a little more confidence.  I've found
    that if a green horse knows the voice commands for "canter" and also
    for "whoa", then things go much more smoothly:  the horse knows what
    you want when you say "canter", and a few soft "whoas" can settle the
    horse once she starts.  This might help you to relax.  
    
    Also, you might try longeing her before you ride her (maybe you already
    do).  Lunge her until the edge is off, and then when you ride her, wait
    until toward the end of the "lesson" to canter.  You both might be more
    relaxed by that time.
    
    Does she buck when you ask for a canter?  I have one horse (now
    retired) who would buck when he first cantered, and then he started
    bucking whenever I tightened up the girth the first time (not fun on
    cross-ties!).  Getting a thicker saddle pad helped with this.  A
    horse's back moves a lot more in a canter than in a walk or trot, so
    some ouchy spots in your saddle might only bother her then...
    
    good luck!
    -ellie

    
    It sounds like she really doesn't canter on the lunge 'fine'.  You 
    indicated that she starts out excited then calms down.  
    
    I really suggest getting her to the point that she always steps quietly
    into the canter on the lunge from a walk and a trot, and does her
    downward transitions to the trot and walk quietly.  
    
    Then I would make sure she can do all this with loose side reins.  She 
    might be waiting for something or someone to gig her in the mouth or in
    the back or in her sides (or all the above) as she starts to canter.  
    
    And helping her have quiet experiences on the lunge can reset her brain 
    to step into the canter quietly under saddle.  I had to do something 
    very similar with my mare after a 'trainer' messed with her mind.  It
    took months but it has been worth the effort. 

>>    As someone who retrained a former harness racer who'd been punished for
>>    cantering, 

    "punished" sounds odd to me.  I say more likely ALWAYS pulled back from
    canter to trot.  One suggested way to train an animal, without rewards
    for good behavior or punishment for bad, is to just keep repeating
    the command until they do it correctly.  They learn quick.


    On the riding side, I'd guess a horse who has been ridden before and
    gave a previous owner the same treatment has things all figured out.

    "No, I don't want to do that " !
    
    I had the same problem with a TB I lease,  15 minutes of work was enough
    for him.  Once my position improved and I sat thru 1 bucking episode
    he pretty much stopped doing it.

    As I ask for even more work he is on the verge of doing 'something'
    but I can feel it comming now (knock wood).

    RE -1.  The harness racer I retrained certainly ACTED as if she
    expected to be punished when she broke into a canter (or, more
    correctly, a weird version of it). She would break when trotting on a
    circle, then stop dead and begin visibly shaking with her head as high
    in the air as she could possibly get it, obviously in fear of
    something. Perhaps I misjudged her reaction, but I attributed it to a
    fear of punishment for the break from gait. After several sessions of
    praising her to high heaven, petting her, in general letting her know
    it was "okay" to break gait, *I* would not punish her, she turned
    around completely. Now, 5 years later, she canters beautifully, very
    smooth, understands lead and knows her changes, shows no fear
    whatsoever. Now, what FORM of punishment she was given for breaking
    in her racing days I have no idea, but whether it was a crack of a whip
    (a lunge whip and passing riders with crops sticking out also terrified
    her) or merely ALWAYS being pulled back to the trot, I know my horse
    well, and I thoroughly believe that to her mind of it
    WAS a form of punishment, whether a human would consider it so or not.
    Quite probably she never WAS physical harmed as a race horse, I know
    that her former owners were wonderful to her, to all their horses, and
    her former driver is still involved in harness racing down south and
    has, I have been told, an excellent reputation in the business. I just
    think that, judging from her reactions, SHE BELIEVED she was being 
    punished. Nice horses, these Standardbreds, though, very willing and
    what a marvelous trail/distance riding horse she has become! I highly
    recommend them to anyone! :-)