Conference noted::equitation

    
    Pick the horses strong points.... i.e.  the gait..... go to a 
    show with gaited horses for a demo....   Show the people interested
    in gaited horses- Icelandic's (can do it better) ;*}
    ...... jumping... jumping events....show how Icelandic's (can do it
    better) ;*}
    
    
    

    Try cross posting in the General::colorado_horse Conference. 
    These sound like really great horses. What price range do
    they fall in ?
    
    Carl

    Gee, I was hoping to get more response and ideas.  I kinda thought the 
    horse show idea was far fetched, but I can't knock it until I've looked
    into it.
    
    For starters, I guess we'll do something at the Equine Expo.  Maybe
    have some horses available for demo rides.  As far as showing goes, I
    don't think they would do well against other horses, most people would
    have better luck in the pony classes.  They are getting into dressage
    in the European countries, but from reading the notes on dressage and
    breed discrimination, I doubt they'd stand a chance right now.
    
    Kristina has won many Vermont based endurance rides, and feels that the 
    promotion in the area is going well.  She's experienced alot of
    activity from the central mass area, and since no one else is into them
    in MA like some of the other states, hence she picked her target area. 
    
    I'm still open for ideas....
    
    Thanks-
    
    Michele 

    What price range does an Icelandic fall into - one that is already
    broken to ride and is safe and sane?
    
    

    Right now, a good older imported gelding (13+) would probably cost a couple 
    thousand (3-5K) dollars, where younger horses are higher.  Mares
    and stallions are higher too.    The Icelandic is slow to mature, and 
    is not usually broke to ride until they are 5.  Since they are given 5
    years to mature, they tend to live longer, and are very useful into 
    their 30's.  The import cost coupled with the fact that they
    can't be used until they are 5 raises the price.
    
    THere are a couple of farms in the US which have put *very* high prices
    on the Icelandics, trying to capture a corner of the market with $$.
    But there is the other half that knows the market is probably going
    to be the average horse owner.  These people have made contacts in
    Iceland to purchase good stock for a good price (the price was always
    high for americains........but that's a good beer discussion), and
    may be able to lower the actual cost of the Icelandic.  but if you
    compare the cost of an Icelandic to that of a good registered horse,
    you're proabably not spending that much more.
    
    The Icelandic have certain breeding pratices that Americains don't. 
    For instance, you shouldn't find a bad tempered imported Icelandic,
    they become dinner (the horses are one of the prime sources of meat in
    the country), where here, I've run across a few that never would make
    it in Iceland.....  Icelandics are bred for a good even temperement.
    They hardly spook (99.9% of the time), are very willing workers, very
    sure footed, and have a graceful high stepping gaited action.
    
    They are truely a wonderful horse!

It cracks me up sometimes when I see price tags of 3-5K for a horse.  There are
so many good horses for less money.  A good Walking horse runs from $1500 up,
with the norm being around $2000.  Granted you sometimes have to look hard,
but they can be found.

Why do people insist on getting so much for their animals?  Are they limiting
the market to wealthier people for the chic appeal?  Or are there legitimate
reasons for the price to be so high (other than higher profit)?

Ed..

    I know people who pay $1500-2000 just for a new show saddle!
    
    I once read or heard a quote "Every horse is worth about $200,
    the training is what puts the value on."
    
    I went to the Attitash jumping Grand Prix one year, and patted
    "Aramis" , who was syndicated at a cool $1 million.  
    
    Lynne

    re .7
    
    If you are breeding horses, you have to charge "a lot" of money unless
    you are willing to operate at a loss.  It costs about $1000 per year to
    feed and house a horse - maybe slightly less if you have lots of
    terrific pasture.  So, go figure.
    
    When you buy a horse for $1000 or so, it's because somebody else
    already took the loss.  Unfortunately, it costs more to produce a good
    horse than the market can bear, so very few people can afford to be
    breeders.  Personally, I found that it would be a lot easier to just
    take a $1000 bill each month and tear it to shreds.  The effect is just
    about the same as running a breeding farm, with a lot less headache and
    manual labor involved.   
    
    8^)
    
    -ellie  (who went out of the breeding business after 5 years of
    financial ruin.....)

    RE: .7.....
    
    Please go back and reread my note.  The price of the Icelandics is high
    right now because of importing costs and the fact that the horse
    is 5 before it is broke.  So if you take Ellie's figures of $1000/yr
    (which I think is low) and times that by 5, thats 5K, then add another
    $1000 for the year it takes to train it, plus importing fees ($1-2K),
    we're talking $7-8K into the horse.  
    
    I couldn't touch a good registered Paint for a minimum of $2.5K.  I
    would pay for a good Icelandic.  What's your definition of `good'?

    I can completely believe that breeding is costly, and the with the cost
    of importing the Icelandic, it's easy to see why the price would be
    where it is. Problem is, with the economy the way it is, it is not at
    all hard to get a decent horse for considerably less, and for the
    average horse owner who is more concerned with "safe, sane," etc than
    any particular breed, the Icelandics are going to be passed by. I am
    not disputing the qualities of the breed,  I am not saying they are not
    worth the price, just simply that there is a lot to be had out there in
    that price range and less. The horses up at Attitash and at that level
    of competition are pretty impractical for most of us, in reality. The
    average backyard/trail/pleasure showing horse with potential can be
    found for less than 3-5K easily. I can site examples....I got a 9yr
    old Standardbred mare for 250.00, retrained her, and she has placed
    every time out in endurance/judged pleasure rides, has place high all
    but once in halter/model hunter classes, and pinned consistently in
    equitation/jumper classes (even won a day end champ. last summer in a
    small local show). We later added a 8 yr old TB gelding, at the
    enormous price of 500.00. Started showing him the following summer, and
    he's pinned lower than 3rd only twice, and earned me my first year-end
    high point champ. his first year out. Not too bad for a 500.00 special.
    I know of numerous similiar cases, my neighbors recently had a 5 yr
    old Morgan GIVEN to them, he's sound and healthy and a real looker, as
    of yet basically untrained so his potential is unsure. If one puts an
    effort into looking around, I would have to agree with Ed that 3-5k is
    high these days.
    Honestly, I have no clue as to how to market a specific breed, but
    with that in mind, I would suggest to market her Icelandics, your
    friend should target the higher income crowd, doing demos etc at
    the shows such as the festival held yearly at Attitash, some of the
    National shows, that sort of thing. Try to get the backup of some of
    the top riders in different fields, get them to ride one and endorse
    the breed? If you start at the top, with people who think nothing of
    paying $$$$$$$$ in excess of thousands for a horse, perhaps they'll
    feel the 3-5K price tag of the Icelandics is low, and give them a try!
    
    They do sound like a versatile breed, and I know from pictures I've 
    seen of them (nope, never seen one in the flesh) that they're awful
    cute with a sort of pony-ish look....go for the "poor little rich
    kid" crowd! :-) Good luck, keep us posted, it's an interesting
    topic!
    

I appreciate the costs of raising a foal.  We have an eight month Tennessee
Walking horse that has just been a hay burner to-date.  However, I would disagree
that it costs $1000 per year to care for a horse.  If you have to add boarding
costs on top of food, then yes it is possible (or probable).  But, we have our
two in our yard.  We go through about 5 bales of hay per week (cost about $12.50)
We go through about 100 pounds of crimped oats per week (roughly) at a cost of
about $11.  That comes to $23.50 per week for two horses (an adult who is worked
and an eight month foal) or about $1,222 to support two horses.  I know it is
not accurate to split the cost in half, because the adult eats more than the
baby.  Also, I know that there are vet costs and at some point farrier costs.

It is just my observation that when horses are priced high many (most?) people
won't even look at the horse, let alone make an offer.  I also understand the
cost of tack.  My wife is looking at an $800 saddle.

I also appreciate that you get what you pay for and what value can be placed
on good breeding and good training?  We are more than willing to pay extra for
a good horse.  I am just not willing to over pay.

But, those are my thoughts.  I only mention them because a question was raised
about what price level the horse should be at.  If the importing cost is so hight,
why can't you start a breeding program here and avoid that.

Also, why do you have to wait until they are 5 to train?  Walking horses can
start training at 1 1/2 because of their gaited nature.  It sounds much like
these are similar.  What is unique to make them wait so long?

Ed..

    re .-1
    
    Well, your costs may be lower than what I experienced, but then there's
    also the fact that *nothing* eats as much as a pregnant, lactating
    mare.  It's not unusual for a mare with a suckling foal to go through
    over 20lbs of the most expensive grain in a day.  The most expensive
    time, I found, is the last couple of months of the mare's pregnancy,
    and the time until the foal is weaned.  And then, after the foal is
    born, there's the constant vet checks -- they *will* get sick since 
    they are building up the immunities that protect them later in life --
    and also constant farrier visits.  You also didn't include
    bedding in your list of costs, and this is a substantial cost.
    
    Yes, I agree, there are many many good horses out there to be had
    for only a small fraction of the cost of raising a foal.  This is
    precisely why I finally went out of the breeding business.  There is
    simply no way to make a reasonable profit in today's economy.  And even
    after things pick up, there probably wont be either.  There were a lot
    of really nice horses bred by small bredders like me in the past few
    years, and those horses will be around for a while.  Only a very few
    buy a new horse frequently enough to use up the avaiable supply.
    
    
    -ellie

RE: .11

    Thanks, that's a great idea.  I didn't think of Attitash.  Anyone have
    a contact name?

    When we first got interested, I got price lists from all the breeders 
    in the US and Canada, and I felt that I would never have a chance of 
    owning one.  The average price listed was about 7K for an aged gelding  
    (Green foals were about 3-5K)....but Kristina's made some good contacts 
    and she's been getting them for much less.

    

RE:  .12
        
    I'm glad you can get away with it so inexpensively....but I'd rather
    debate the cost of keeping a horse in a different topic.

    Not all horses are alike....conformation alone will tell you that.  I
    know of a paint colt who is broke to death now, and he's not even two.
    I believe they race TB's around two, some of the Morgan people I know 
    won't break a horse till it's 3 or 4.  Icelandics just are not ready to 
    be broke until they are five. 

    The Icelandic is very different from a horse or pony as we know them
    because of the climate they evolved in.  It is a very cold, harsh,
    rocky/hilly terrain.  The ones which evolved over 900+ years had to
    be real hearty.  For instance, their respiratory system is different.  
    They take short quick breaths, or else their lungs would have froze.
    Up until recently the horses weren't imported at all, and the Icelandic
    way of life hasn't changed much.  They just don't feed and house horses 
    like we do.  

    An American breeding program will start introducing changes in the
    breed, just because our environments and philosophy are completely 
    different.  It's not wrong....but I actually prefer the imported horses
    to those bred in the US (I've worked with both).  And an American
    breeding program is going to be more costly than importing.
    

    
    
    	I agree with the note that breeding is to expensive to do in a big 
    	scale.  One or two colts is more than enough. .
    
    	But, anyone who thinks they are going to make money buying or 
    	selling horses has to be selling to people with alot of money.
    
    	I have seen many colts get into fences and hurt them selves.
    
    	You have to love the sport.
    
        As I have told my husband I feel that I spend 100.00 a month
    	on horse feed, etc.
    
    	

    My expenses for my horses last year, which includes everything
    from feed, shoes, vets, bedding, to mileage came to $5900 for 2 horses!!
    This included about $1000 worth of equipment also.  I have a 2 year
    old now that I have raised and I would guess I have about $3000
    into her already, including stud fee and feeding the mare for a 
    year.  No one can tell me horses are cheap!!

    Well the Equine Expo is almost upon us, and I wanted to let everybody
    know that there will be an Icelandic Horse Booth at the expo.  There
    will be four demo's over the weekend.  If an DECies are there saturday,
    please stop by the booth and say hi.
    
    Michele

    
    
    	Directions to expo..   We would like to go but, don't know how
    	to get there.. 
    
    	Donna

    
    Exit off MASS PIKE, #4, take Route 91 North, exit
    at exit #19.  Left at lights onto route 9 .. next left
    onto Old Ferry Road, Areana is on right.  
    
    From 91 South, exit at exit #20, left at lights onto Damon Road,
    right at next set of lights on route 9, next left onto 
    old ferry road, arena is on right