Conference noted::equitation

    Gee, Chip, I'm surprised nobody from eastern Mass. hasn't responded
    yet, since we have a lot of hunter paces around here.  I've only
    participated in a few, and organized none, so my knowledge is
    limited, but...
    
    Generally, teams go out in pairs, and sometimes made up of
    3 if necessary - but this tends to slow a team down, based
    on my experience (so should only be at the team's request,
    not mgmt-mandated)
    
    Usually, there's a flats and a jumps division
    
    Times are not told to the teams ahead of time - you must
    set your pace based on your assessment of conditions.  Of
    course, it's very subjective to whomever was setting the
    pace.  But, I think the basic point of a pace is to
    have fun!
    
    Often, prizes are also given to "best-matched" pair.
    
    I did see one program that had a few different pace trails
    setting off from the same start - geared to persons of
    different levels, so a generally slower pace, shorter
    distance for beginners, e.g.
    
    Good luck on your planning!
    
    Jennie7

Thanks!!

Come on all you Pacers out there.  We want to put on a fun event and I am 
looking for any suggestions. The time for putting together our premium draws
frightful close (this week). 

Chip

    I've only done a handful, and it sounds like you've got it right.  We
    wern't told times, I guess that's the purpose, see who can finish the 
    closest to the set time.

A couple more questions... 

Does anyone use jump judges or are the competiters on their honor to do the
course? 

Any suggestions for distance and size of jumps for various levels of riding 
competence?

Chip

Competitors are on their honor to jump the jumps if they are in the over fences
division (at least for all the pace events I've been to.)

For the 'official' pace events, the jumps were usually somewhere around the 3'
range (novice-training level, in eventing terms)  For the 4-H type pace events,
the jumps ranged anywhere from pumpkin height to about novice height (short side
of 3' (2'9")

Distances were usually around 5-7 miles.

some jumps we've encountered are:
	pumpkins
	drop
	stone wall
	gate
	various versions of post and rail
	ditch
	hay bales
	cordwood

Times were not known until awards were given.

Hunt club paces had a pair(?) of riders that set the pace.  No one knew what the
official time was until it was announced at the awards ceremony.  4-H paces 
generally took an average of all the times that were posted. In both cases, the 
teams that came in closest (either over or under) won.

    Each organizer tends to set their own rules. While the New England
    hunts have become fairly formal in their organization of a series of
    hunter pace events, each hunt has interpreted their agreements
    "flexibly". There are no standard "rules" ordained by the AHSA, the 
    Masters of Foxhounds Association or anyone else.
    
    The New England Hunts have a number of end of series awards. Other
    equestrian organizations also run hunter pace events in the Greater
    Maynard Area.
    
    In other geographies, I have known hunter pace events to be run very
    similarly to the cross country phase of a combined training event,
    complete with jump judges and penalty scoring.
    
    How you run your pace event is up to you and your helpers and
    organization. I think the main objective is to have fun and not to be
    too serious about anything (except safety). However, be guided by the
    nature of the riders you expect to participate.
    
    The typical New England Hunt pace event is held over a marked course of
    between five and ten miles with anywhere up to 30 simple jumps. The
    distance is not announced. There are two mandatory checks of 10 minutes
    each roughly one and two thirds of the way through the course where
    refreshments are served to the competitors - wine or sherry for the
    adults, soda for the kids plus some cheese and crackers or similar
    snacks. Nobody counts who does and does not jump a particular fence
    although the competitors are recorded at each check. Divisions are at
    the whim of the organizer, but always included jumping and hill topper
    (non-jumping) categories.
    
    Optimum times are usually set by some member of the hunt riding the
    course at appropriate hunting pace, which is a highly subjective
    measure, for the division. One hunt took the average of all the times
    in a division and declared that to be the optimum time. I liked this
    method; it totally frustrated the chronically competitive riders!
    
    The only rule I would insist on is that ALL COMPETITORS ARE REQUIRED TO
    WEAR RIDING HELMET MEETING PONY CLUB, BSI, DIN OR ASTM STANDARDS
    SECURED BY A HARNESS (depending on where you are).

    I have a question:  do all paces require that the riders go out in
    pairs?? I'd LOVE to try it, if I could do it alone rather than with
    another horse/rider. My mare would be super at it, but she gets
    real strong at speed in company and I"m reluctant to attempt it that
    way. Are there groups out there that allow single riders?? Why is
    it that it is done in pairs anyway??
    

You don't *have* to go in a group (pair/trio).  But, since it sort of emulates 
riding in a hunt for those who are not members, and there are usually more than 
one horse at a hunt meet, need I say more?  I believe that's the idea behind 
the multiple horses per group.

As an aside, think of how many fewer horses/riders  would be able to participate
if lots of folks rode as singletons.  For every singleton, there's at least one
person who doesn't get to go.

    re; .7
    
    It isn't always done in pairs. I have seen teams of 5 or 6 riders. As I
    said in a previous reply divisions depend on the whim of the organizer.
    
    Remember that pace events are usually fund raising events for the
    sponsoring organization. Each riders pays an entry fee and each team
    has a time slot when they can start. Teams follow each other at 2 to 5
    minute intervals. Therefore in a given time period (9:00 a.m. to 3:00
    p.m. seems common in New England), the more riders on a team, the more
    fees can be collected as the total number of particpants will be
    higher. Single rider teams lower the take and have more potential for
    safety problems - no other team member to help you in an accident.
    
    Nevertheless some pace events do allow single riders, generally if
    there are no multiple rider teams ready to go at that instant. Others
    will create scratch teams on the day from folk who show up looking for
    partners. I have not been on a pace event when I did not catch up with
    or be passed by other teams so a horse than can behave in company makes
    for a better day.

Here are a couple of observations that I have made over that past
couple of years, at paces.

It has been my experience that the *safe pace* varies as the day progresses.
What I mean is that, the conditions differ if you are the 1st riders out
or the 50th team out. Footing through the trails gets deeper, footing
in front of fences gets more treacherous, and I think that the correct pace
is probably slower for the 50th team than the 1st team.

Paces are not cheap either, I was mildly stunned to pay $30.00 per horse
for a pace this fall that had fair to mediocre terrain and was only about
4 miles long (I know as  part of it ran through the farm that I live on).

I would like to have seen someone from the organizing group on the course
to check the safety of the trails and the fences periodically. I know that
they had at least 50 teams ride that day, and there were problems with bee's
nests, increasingly treacherous footing through the woods and at fences.

As far as pace setting goes, there doesn't seem to be an easy answer for
this type of situation. Perhaps sending out the pace setters twice (beginning
and end) and averaging would be more equitable. Or maybe taking the average
of the first half of the times as one value, the average of the second
half of the times as a second, then see who falls closest to either the
high or the low (maybe DEC could sell some laptops and software into this
market;-) ) 

.......Anyway...didn't mean to get carried away....

	Just my 2� worth
    

    re:.10
    
    Joanne, was that pace event in Carlisle? (can't remember) 
    I remember a pace this fall that had bees nest problems!!  
    One had crawled up in my mothers hard hat and stung her!    
    
    I also agree with a *safe pace* varying depending on when you get
    out...I hadn't thought of averaging out the times like that, but
    thats a good idea!
                                         
    Caroline
    

I am not an expert but on the subject of the 'pace' at pace events....

I believe that it is up to the organizing body to determine how they are
going to do the timing.   I have been at paces where they:

          * did one timing first thing
          * ran three timings (beg,middle,end), then averaged
          * averaged everyones time for the entire day

As for checking the course, at almost everyone pace I have done, if
returning riders report some problem or concern, it has been checked or
delt with.  At most of the ones sponsored by a hunt club, teams are sent
out periodically to check on things.

Marsha