Conference noted::equitation

  I used to go on those Jr. hunts in Pony Club.  That was many years ago and
  I don't remember much except that you do NOT want to wear a red jacket -
  Usually a black jacket and stock tie are appropriate (or are stock ties out
  of date nowdays?)


  I don't think they have restrictions on nosebands and such.  I always rode
  in a flash or a figure eight and used a running martingale.  I think you
  could put bell boots and other leg gear on your horse, but as I recall,
  most of the hard core hunt folk I used to know would think all that extra 
  gear is sissy stuff.

  Your best bet is to get a book on hunting at a tack shop - just to make sure.

  Are you going on a drag hunt or are you going to chase the real thing??

  Also - you didn't mention where the hunt is being held - different areas
         might have different rules/traditions.

  Have a great time!

  Simone

I am not sure whether this will be a drag or a live hunt. It is being held
in Concord Massachusetts (Old North Bridge Hounds). It is starting fairly
late (10:00am) so I guess I am *assuming* that it will be a drag (not a drag, but
a drag...you know what I mean ;-)

I sort of hope it is a drag because I would hate to chase a poor little fox!

I really am excited though!! ^v^v^v   <---that is supposed to be jumping up and
					  down

    These days New England hunts (and most old England hunts for that
    matter) need the money (capping fee) from visitors so are less
    particular over precise attire than in previous years. Black riding
    jacket and tan breeches, white shirt and stock tie with gold pin, plain
    black boots and black hard hat are conventional attire. There are no
    rules on tack, just that it should be sufficient for you to control
    your horse in company.  English saddle is assumed, although I did hear
    of somebody showing up in a Western saddle at a hunt once, much to the
    amusement and some disdain of the members.
    
    The most significant aspect of hunting ettiquette is how your horse
    behaves in company. Hunting pace varies from a slow walk to a mad
    gallop and an uncontrollable horse is not appreciated in the hunt
    field.
    
    <Begin Editorial>
    
    However, the New England Hunts are stronger on process than on hunting,
    since the country here is not really suitable for a good hunt. That's
    why all but one of the New England Hunts are drag hunts which implies a
    brief but mad dash over a "pre-arranged" course followed by consumption
    of appropriate refreshments at the hunt "tea". Nashoba Valley is the
    only "live hunt" in the area but since their country is not very open
    they tend to walk around a lot with occasional flurries of activity
    when the hounds find. They have rarely actually killed a fox. However
    their hunts are also followed by consumption of appropriate
    refreshments at the hunt "tea".
    
    <End Editorial>
    
    Original sin in the hunt field is having your horse step on or
    otherwise injure a hound. Second worst transgression is passing the
    master or field master.
    
    I haven't been out with any of the New England hunts for a number of
    years. I try to hunt while I am back in England but that isn't always
    possible. Unlike over here, hunts meet in England, depending on time of
    year, between 10:00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m. and continue until dusk.

    It's FUN! I used to do it as a child, but not officially. At the time,
    Nashoba Valley began some of their hunts in the field behind the farm
    and went through part of our woods. We unofficially followed at the
    very back of the pack on our ponies. Mostly we got dumped off about
    halfway through and ended up walking home. I remember all the hunt
    members being very "proper" looking, and we prayed for the day to
    come when we could have such pretty Thoroughbreds (and could stay
    on them) and ride with the hunt for real. It was really fun to sit
    and watch the hounds take off and the horse go hell-bent after them.
    I dont' recall ever seeing anything other than a drag. It's something
    I'd still like to do someday if the right horse came along, but my
    mare would be a holy terror and we'd be blackballed, and my TB gelding
    is far too laidback to have any interest in galloping through the 
    woods ("you want me to WHAT!?" he'd say). I do remember that juniors
    and guests were always placed at the back of the pack, and that if
    anyone got a refusal they pulled aside and waited until everyone else
    had passed to try the fence again. Have a great time, and please
    enter a note here afterwards letting us know it went!

    I used to know a number of people who hunted with Old Northbridge. 
    From the stories they told, be prepared for an incredibly wild ride!
    
    Also, whatever you do, don't call a hound a dog!  Oh, and don't pass
    the master of the hunt.  
    
    As I recall, brown jacket/boots are ok for information hunts, black for
    formal.  Breeches can be tan or buff.
    
    Bit can be snaffle, pelham or full bridle.  I think running martingale
    is preferred over standing (for safety reasons -- your horse will need
    full freedom of head and neck).

    My daughter hunted for years with Norfolk Hunt Club (and would still
    be hunting with them except that their hunts - formal and informal
    are held on her wok days). Anyway, some hunt clubs are more strict
    than other about riding apparel. Norfolk is fairly strict and I suspect
    Old North Bridge is as well.
    
    Formal attire is- black boots, black jacket, tan pants. no earrings, hair
    tucked in net (this is for the Saturday hunts).  On the weekday hunts which
    are informal brown boots and sweaters or informal hunt jackets are
    okay.
    
    You'll have lots of fun. I know several people who belong to ONB but
    also hunt with Norfolk. I didn't hunt but went along as traffic
    control- you know- to stop cars when the hounds approached the street.
    Also- the breakfasts afterwards are fun too.
    
     

    Also- as someone said earlier- non-members ride in the back UNLESS they
    are invited to ride in the front. My daughter prefers to ride in the
    back tho because that way if there are any holes or other ground obstacles
    to be aware of, they will be found by the front riders and the riders
    in the back will therefore be appraised of it (them).
    
    Also, when (if)  the horses go thru the streams (Norfolk crosses the Charles
    River in Medway) our horse will follow far more readily than if he
    were  in the front.
    
    You're going to have a teriffic time!! If Old Northbridge has a hunt
    photographer maybe you can get a picture of yourself, your horse and
    the hounds.
    
    Pat
    
    

I am confused.  There is alot of talk about what clothing one should wear,
where in the pack you should ride, etc.  But, there doesn't seem to be alot of
explanation about why the particular clothing is required.  What difference does
it make if a person wears a red jacket, black jacket, or no jacket.

If a person is a better rider than others, why shouldn't that person be in the
front (if they wish it)?  The keeping in the back seems to discourage the 
attendance of non-members.

Am I missing something?

Ed..

    > am I missing something....??
    
    
    
    
    
    YEP :*)
    
    				wendy o'
    
    

Hi Ed,

I am pretty sure that all of the etiquette that has been described here is
more a matter of *tradition* than expertise. There is a heirarchy on the
course, the master of the hunt rides in front, and then I know that their
are other positions (I don't know all of the names) but these people generally
lead the hunt. 

The rest of the members follow. There is something called "hill topping"
which I think is generally, if not always, on the flat. I really don't know 
how closely the hilltoppers ride the the rest of the hunt (I've never been),
but I guess the name comes from the times when people watched the hunt pass
from the tops of hills (how am I doing??? ;-)).

So your question is certainly a good one :-)

That's as far as I go as far as knowledge goes. The hunt master invited us
and essentially welcomed us to ride in front unless it gets too wild.

	Boy, I hope Neo behaves himself! 

    I believe you have to "earn" the right to wear a red
    jacket, too.....
    

    The red jacket is actually referred to as "pink" even tho it is red
    (I don't know why that is). Anyway, there are certain members who
    have that privilege - and these people have functions within the hunt.
    I suspect that a pink coat is to allow other people to spot them
    easier- however I could be wrong about that reason.
    
    Other people have velvet "colors" on their collars. These are earned-
    the members of the hunt club vote on giving the colors to other
    members. In some clubs it is quite easy to get your colors - in other
    clubs it is more difficult. Having one's colors brings with it certain
    privileges such as riding in the front among other things.
    
    About riding in the front - actually it hasn't seemed to discourage 
    participants from hunting - it is just part of the game.
    
    Some clubs are not so strict on clothing but I personally like to see a 
    formal hunt with black jackets, boots - all the traditional garb. However,
    there are apparently alot of people who do not agree for one reason or
    another, therefore hunt clubs exist with less emphasis on dress. It
    is just how one feels, and there are clubs to accomodate everyone. 
    
    People who hunt do so because it is fun. It is a way of people getting
    together in a sport (riding) in which many can participate but the
    competition is almost non-existent. The real requirements are that
    you can stay on your horse- that you can control him- and that you
    follow certain rules (most of which are just common sense anyway).
    
    Most hunts are "drags" in Massachusetts but sometimes the hounds can go
    off on a live scent. Most times the live scent is a deer - and then the
    hounds are recalled as it is unsportsmanlike and illegal to hunt down
    a deer. Besides- deer tend to run into the roads with the hounds
    following possibly causing injury to cars, the people in the cars, as
    to themselves.
    
    Hunting is fun - I wish I could go too (but alas I have to work on
    the weekend).
        

    Pink coats are named after the tailor who designed and made the first
    ones.  I've also heard that his name was spelled "Pinque", but this may
    be apocryphal
    
    -ellie

    that makes sense..... I learned something new. Thanks. Pat
    

...my fingers are cramping at the thought......

    I never saw a horse braided for a hunt so I checked with someone
    else- who also never saw a horse braided. Perhaps you could - but
    you don't have to do it.
    
                                               

   There have been several books published on hunting but I don't know which 
   are still in print. However here is a personally biased synopsis.

   Hunting on horseback as a sport originated with European Royalty during
   the Middle Ages. Deer were the original quarry. Lesser mortals could not
   even think of taking part. In fact it was a capital offense to kill a deer 
   in a royal forest (as the starving peasants had a tendency to do). In time 
   members of the royal court (the aristocracy) took up the sport on their 
   own estates even when no entertaining the King (keeping up with the royal 
   Joneses). Hence hunting traditions are very strongly tied up with the class 
   system.

   As time progressed, more and more of the forests were cleared for timber
   for ship building, charcoal for iron making and for farming. The number of
   wild deer started to drop. The number of upper class folk wanting to take
   part in this most socially exclusive sport was climbing. Changes in
   agriculture made the land more productive and the landowners richer, also
   displacing the previously mentioned starving peasants. The beginning of
   the Industrial Revolution also created a number of wealthy merchants and
   industrialists - the creation of the middle class. Like "Nouveaux Riches"
   through out history these newly affluent folk tended to mimic the
   behaviour of their social superiors to extreme. However the royal forests 
   were off limits to these social upstarts and there weren't enough deer to 
   go round.

   Some time in the eighteenth century the landowners in the English Midlands 
   started to chase foxes instead of deer on horseback. Private packs were 
   still the order of the day. The aristocracy, having run short of deer, 
   also joined in the chase after the fox. The growing middle class also 
   joined in and hunting became sport in which you participated to prove that 
   you had "arrived", to the extent that a number of noted Victorian 
   engineers died in hunting accidents. Obviously their engineering was 
   better than their riding!

   During this period a number of "traditions" were started by the newly
   affluent trying to out do each other. The finery in which you were turned
   out was an obvious example. However "you can't tell the players without a
   scorecard" and certain uniforms were adopted so that the hired help wasn't
   confused with the rich and famous. Of course hunting was for a long time
   an entirely male preserve. Ladies simply didn't ride, it wasn't lady-like.
   If they attended a meet at all it was merely to observe discretely from
   the comfort and privacy of their carriage the male members of their family 
   taking part.

   Now, of course, it was inevitable that ladies decided that it was not
   their place to remain on the sidelines of a sport that looked like so much
   fun. So in due course women took to hunting appearing in the hunt field
   modestly attired riding side-saddle towards the back of the field. No lady
   of any moral standing would ever dream of riding a horse astride. It was
   an absolute social scandal when the first lady appeared at hunt riding
   astride her horse. I believe that it wasn't until the 1920's and 30's that
   the last hunt accepted women followers riding astride.

   The decline of the landed gentry, inflation, rising wages (for hunt
   staff), brought about the appearance of hunt memberships, by which
   individuals paid a yearly subscription for the privilege of hunting with a
   pack rather than by being a landowner or being invited by the Master. Now
   there are few private packs left in existence. More recently financial
   need has caused some hunts to actively canvass visitors to hunt, for a not
   inconsiderable daily capping fee. There are some hunts in Ireland that 
   would be in very dire straits if it were not for the stream of American 
   "visitors" that they receive.

   All of this has left hunting with a long and varied list of "traditions".
   If a member has contributed greatly to the functioning of a hunt, the hunt
   committee will award that member their "colours". For a man this means the
   right to wear a pink (red) coat. Lady members, in proper hunts, display
   their colours on their coat collar only, which will be of a quieter blue
   or green shade (they haven't got over them riding astride yet!). Adult
   members, including lady members who have been awarded their colours,
   should wear hunting bowler (derby) hats. A gentleman should wear a top hat 
   with his pinks. Only juniors and hunt staff should wear riding hard hats. 
   Fortunately this part of tradition has been abandoned and its quite 
   acceptable to wear a hard hat with full harness so long as it has a 
   black/dark cover.

   There are a whole lot more traditions whose origins may or may not be 
   known. I find it somewhat that some of these revered traditions were 
   started by nouveaux riches Victorians trying to out do each other!
    
    It's still possible to hunt deer on horseback in a few European
    countries. I have done it in one of the royal forests in England.
    However hunting's association with the affluent, the Establishment and
    the aristocracy has caught up with it politically.
    
    <RAT HOLE WARNING - This can be as bad as gun control>
    
    The starving peasants are getting their own back. Much of the anti-hunt
    movement (in the U.K. particularly) is not only morally outraged at
    bloodsports but enthusiastically uses this outrage as a weapon to
    strike back in the class war. Blow by blow commentary can be seen in
    some of the U.K. Notesfiles.
    
    <Please start a separate topic if you wish to express your opinions on
    the morality of hunting.>

    
    	Here are a couple of interesting fact about hunting aside...
    
    	
    	Catherine de Medici (1519-1589) introduced a second side horn
    	(not the leaping head, which did not appear until 1630)to the 
    	side saddle and possibly the stirrup. She hunted into her 60's.
    
    	Queen Elizabeth I, who reigned until 1603, hunted until she
    	was in her 70's. She is credited with making hunting aside for
    	ladies popular in England.                            
    
    	Astride riding was not generally accepting until the 1920-30's,
    	and women still hunt aside today.
    
    	Sherry
    

    Just a quick note - in the 12 years that I have been associated with
    hunting in eastern Massachusetts I have never seen a fox caught. 
    In fact most hunts are "drags". In this country, unlike other
    countries, the fox is considered "safe" when he retreats to a safe
    hiding place. He is not driven out of his hole. 
    
    Around my area a fox scent can frequently be picked up and followed 
    resulting in a fun ride, but that is all there is.
    
    The reason the fox is usually never caught in this area is because
    there is so much undergrowth, as well as rock walls, in which a fox can
    hid and thus be declared "safe". This is not true in other areas of 
    the U.S. which has large open spaces of land.
    
    As far as the clubs around here I feel correct in saying that the
    participants are in it for the camaraderie, for the working of the
    hounds (there are hound competitions) and training of new hounds, 
    for taking one's horse out across country for a brisk ride, and just
    to be part of an old tradition.
    
    My daughter, who has hunted since she was 12 years old (she's now 23)
    has seen a fox only once on a hunt yet she still loves hunting for all
    the above reasons. 
       
    
    

    
    >Also, whatever you do, don't call a hound a dog! 
    
    Also, do not address or distract Hounds in any way.  Only the Hounds
    Master can address Hounds.  The book I have on Hunting states that the
    proper term is "Hounds", not "The Hounds", etc.    

    
    
    Sunday when I went riding there was a hunt going on in Carlie 
    state forest - besides going very fast over a long distance they
    didn't dress any differently from my self jophers, and riding jacket
    gloves, and hard hat.. All the horses were braided... 
    
    they looked like they were having a great time.. 
    
    Donna

Sunday in Carlisle was not a hunt but rather a pace event sponsored by the
Old North Bridge Hounds.


If you are unfamiliar with a pace, it is a marked ride through the woods in
teams of two or three done at a safe 'hunt pace'.  The team that comes in
closest to the pace (set by an experienced hunt rider) wins.  The attire is
very informal and is not limited in any way to hunt members.  All types of
riders go.

Most of the hunt clubs sponsor one pace event a year.

    Hi JoAnne-
    
    How was the hunt? You had a good day and I suspect that there were
    alot of people who turned out. Was it alot of fun? Hope so.
    Pat
    

    my daughter just called a few minutes ago after going on a hunt
    today (Tuesday) with Norfolk Hunt. She had a wonderful time - the
    weather was great, what more could she ask????
    

The hunt was wondeful!

We arrived about an hour early and had our mounts all shiny and ready to ride.
Thanks to all of your help, we were turned out correctly and we followed
all of the rules! The horses behaved TREMENDOUSLY! People actually approached
us during the *checks* to comment on how well they were doing for their first
hunt. I could tell that they were having fun. Neo loves to run and jump and
Zeus does everything with that pony smile.

It was a perfect weekend. I felt like I was in on of those fox-hunting paintings
from England. It was so neat to watch the whips and masters in their *pinks*
ride ahead with the hounds.

We started on Monument Street in Concord and worked our way through the 
fields and woods of the surrounding farms. The jumps were pretty, not very 
high ~2� - 3 feet at the most. The pace was comfortable too, a good fast pace
with some breaks. There were about 20 fences all together. The hunt lasted for
about 2 hours.  

The tea afterward was quite the social event! It was catered and everyone was
very interested in knowing all about us :-) They were all very friendly.
The food was super and most of the conversation was about what we had seen on
the ride, and of course the horses.

I have been severely bitten now by the hunt bug, Fortunately we were invited
to return as often as we want...YYYAAyyy!!!

I highly recommend it to everyone. It felt like a horse show, without the
pressure of competition. The journey was the reward!

Thanks again everyone and if anyone is interested in the location of some of the
Old North Bridge Hunts between now and Thanksgiving, send me some mail.

	JoAnne and Neo & Bev and Zeus

    glad you had a good time. Fun, aren't they???!!! Something you said
    about "showing without competition" struck a familiar tone, as that
    was exactly why we (my daughter and I) got into hunting. 
    
    Erin had been showing since she was a 2-year old in lead line and
    had shown consistently until she was 13 years old. When she was
    around 13 she decided she didn't want anything more to do with competition.
    So a friend of mine who hunted with Norfolk susgested that she try
    hunting. It was in July/August when Erin first took Jimmy out with the
    hounds (on one of the trail rides for training the young hounds). Jimmy
    behaved well, and then they went hunting the following September and
    that was the beginning of a new chapter of riding for her (us). Since 
    that day Erin has never competed in a show but has hunted and 
    hunter-paced instead.
    
    Glad you went to the tea afterward, they can be as much fun as the hunt
    (sometimes).
      

One thing that I did notice was this:

I was one of the youngest people riding.......

.....and I am in my mid-thirties (yikes, I can't believe I said that ;-))

Anyway, there was one young girl, perhaps in her mid-twenties. The majority
of the riders (30 of them) were 40 and older. There were a few gentlemen, easily
in their mid to late sixties. 

I can see why your daughter opted for hunting over showing. It seemed that
all of those classes in *suitability* for *manners in a group*, obediance,
courtesy, jumping cleanly and safely, are all geared toward doing exactly what 
we did last Saturday....hunted...:-)

Not to get too philosophical or anything but for me..it all kind of 
came together!

	Tally-Ho,

		 JoAnne_who_appears_to_have_gone_off_the_deep_end_over_this_
			_hunting_stuff_%^)

    you're right about being one of the youngest- that's one reason the
    club members welcome new people with open arms. So many younger (it's all
    relative I guess) opt for showing.... and there is a concern that
    the hunt clubs could dissolve if there are no new members to take the
    places of the older crowd - so new faces are very welcome. 
    
    Another reason for an older crowd is that the focus is much different
    than showing, e.g., it is more for "fun". No one is trying to outdo
    another person (no one is out for the glory of getting a blue ribbon or
    such). These older folks have passed that desire long ago. I know in
    our club people are still hunting while in their 60's and 70's - which
    I think is great!!! I have noticed however that there are more "junior"
    participants (under 18) these days than there were 10 years ago. I
    think the median age tho would be late 30's to 50's, with riders
    as young as 13 years old and as old as 72.  This is a fine way to 
    be social, still ride, have fun,  and not fuss with the show scene.
    (There are alot of 60-70 year olds who still want to ride, and can 
    ride well).
    
    

    I received for my 4-H club a nice little booklet from the local
    hunt club in our area...Tanheath Hunt Club.
    
    It tells about the propper attire, do's and don'ts, terms, etc....
    
    anyone liking a coppy please write to me and I will make a copy for
    you.
    
    contact:
    
    LUDWIG::ROCK
    DTN 225-4706