Conference noted::equitation

    I gave up riding outside a month ago.  The last time I tried to go on a
    trail, after dousing both of us with fly stuff, we had a least a dozen
    deerflies each -- and that was just buzzing our ears!
    
    Almost every day he comes in with new welts -- some as big as my hand!
    
    And one day I forgot to leave his fly spray out for him -- the poor guy
    must have had a thousand bumps on his stomach -- they we're literally
    bumper-to-bumper!
    
    We're both so cranky from being indoors that I'm thinking of giving up
    riding until the flies die out.  Probably do a lot less damage that
    way.
    
    Mary
    

    re: -.1
    
    Mary -- We're having lots of deer flies and horse flies in Colorado
    this year, too, and my horse started having incredible allergic
    reactions.  Welts started out dime size, went up to half-dollar and
    dollar size, and finally began to look like he had halves of oranges
    implanted under his skin!  Poor guy.  I called the vet, and a week of
    Equi-hist in his grain twice a day has really helped him. He is still
    reacting to new bites/stings, but much less noticeably than before.
    
    He is lethargic from the antihistamines, but I believe he is far less
    uncomfortable.  You might want your horse to be checked for allergic
    reactions, too.
    
    Marci

    Lethargic?  Great!  My guy could use a tranquilizer :-)  I'll call my
    vet!
    
    Mary

When I looked at note #4.112, I found the following notes that might be of 
further help:

   117 - FLY SPRAY AND DEER FLIES

   578 - INSECT REPELLANTS

   671 - FLY CONTROL

I hope this helps.  We haven't seen as bad an infestation as it sounds like you
are seeing.  We mix Repel-X with white vinegar.  It seems to do a nice job.  This
is how they used to do it before they had insect repellents.

Ed..

    I haven't had too much of a problem with them this year. Daily
    fly-spraying has seemed to help for me. Not having the luxury of
    an indoor arena at home (I wish!), we've been riding mainly doubling
    the paddock into "ring" duty, and sticking to the roads instead of
    going deep into the woods on trails. I'm lucky in that there are miles
    upon miles of remote dirt roads, and we can get in some good distances
    without having to go into the woods nor onto busy hot-top roads.
    

    I've been sticking to the ring and to the Tuft's route(large dirt
    roads, and some street)....otherwise, forget it.....those flies are hungry!
    It's okay.....but I can't wait for them to take off.
    
    M

    
    I did notice they got worse in the last week.  But I never go out w/out
    my handy little hand  held bug spary.  and I fully dowse my self and my
    hosrse...so we have not had much of a problem 'yet' I took last week
    off and I rode almost everyday up to 6-8hrs in the woods and resivors
    and  I was fine :-)
    
    but I hate em'  give me a bug free day any day
    
    Lou

    
    I'm pretty pleased with Skin So Soft, Vinegar, and water - but we still
    keep movin' when we're in the woods!
    
    Hand held bug spray - that's a good idea!
    
    Amy

    I know it's awfully hot right now, but long-sleeved dark-colored clothes
    help, too. The bugs don't seem to find you quite so attractive!

    Yes, dark clothes are best.  Especially avoid yellow -- once, at a
    baseball game, I noticed that everyone who was wearing yellow was being
    bothered by bugs, and no one else seemed to be.  (Yes, it was a
    *really* boring game....)  8^)
    
    -ellie

    Try riding early in the mourning 5:00 to 6:00 a.m..  No deer flies or
    horseflies just a few mosquitos.

    Re .11- !!!!!
    
    Not where I am....That's when they start to come out!!!!!
    
    5:00am to 9:00pm  Ugh!!!!!         
    
    HRH

    It seems that if you add one part vinigar to your bug spray it
    does help. the FLY"S do not like the vinigar. the horses smell
    like a tossed sallid and they are happier. You still get the flies
    but not as bad.
    
    I have been using one part water/ one part vinigar / and 7 parts
    repel-x....or what ever bug spray I have at the time.
    
    I ALSO BOUGHT AND AM HAVING GOOD LUCK WITH THE FARNAM FLY MASKS...
    I FORGET THE MANES OF THEM....MAYBE SUPERMASK....
    YOU NEED TO WAS THEM REGULARLY .... TO KEEP THEM CLEAN.
    
    WELL GOOD LUCK.

Please refer to note 578.23 for some contraindications of
feeding vinegar to horses.

    I have never seen so many flies in my life!  Can anyone give a few
    words of wisdom to help rid my barn of flies and mosquitos.  It is awfully 
    difficult to get my horses to pay attention during a workout because of the
    pests.
    
    Thank you,
    Chris

    What are you using for repellent? I have the best luck with Repel-X,
    mixed 4-1 with water.  Some others I have tried are equally effective
    but more expensive, and others cheaper but not as effective.  I suspect
    that different repellents work differently depending on the individual
    horse.  I spray both my horse and my pony daily, and extra when I
    ride.  My ring area is really not bad at all this year, but out in 
    the woods the deer flies are thick as thieves.  Have you tried one
    of those net things that goes over the ears (like a hood)? If your
    horse isn't bothered by wearing one, it will keep at least his ears 
    from getting attacked.  I also find that allowing the cobwebs to form
    in the worst part of the season helps catch a good number of insect
    pests, although it looks awful and I knock them down at the first sign
    of bug season letting up.  Defineatly keep all light bulbs and electric
    wiring areas clear of cobbies at all times, though.  My neighbor has
    one of those 'blaster' things that emits spray at regular intervals in
    the barn, she seems to feel that helps somewhat, too. I've never tried
    one, though.
    
    Also you could try riding in the early morning, or after dark, when the
    bugs are not as active, if your schedule permits (mine doesn't,
    unfortuneatly).
    
    * Mod note: see note 4.141 for listing of other topics discussing pest
      control
    
    

    The biting flies are wicked as well!  I have those Farnum Super horse
    Fly masks on all my guyes all the time....even when riding.  They may
    look silly, but my horses are much happier and listern to me when I
    ride.
    
    Michele
    

    Michele's right. We used fly masks(even riding) for years in New
    England. We lived in a swampy area and the mosquiotes and deer flies
    were *wicked* every year. The [many expletives deleted] deer flies were
    so hard up they'd attack my *truck* when I was driving down the road.
    I guess they're so dumb that any source of heat = a source of blood...
    
    Anyway, we had some old fashioned fly masks that were made out of
    mosquito netting. They covered the ears *AND* the face. These things
    were indispensible for riding around flies of any type, especially 
    deer-flies. 
    
    For years, I couldn't find anything like these old ones but Absorbine 
    now makes a modern version of these old masks. Modern because 
    they use elastic and velcro where our old ones have string ties. They
    cost about $10 through equine supply catalogs. Local tack shops and
    feed stores sell them too but you'll pay $16-$17 for them!
    
    The *only* we found fly spray we found that kept both deer-flies
    and mosquitoes is the Supersect line that Equi-Care(?) puts out.
    We've used both the "ready made" version and the "dilute it 4-1 with
    water" version and both work well. 
    
    We switched to this stuff from Repel-X so (IMHO) Supersect is better
    than Repel-X. We also found that Absorbine fly repellents didn't work
    very well for us. I've heard other people say the same thing in recent
    years so save them for a last resort.
    
    Actually, what does work *really* well is human bug repellents with
    DEET in them, especially 100% DEET. Problem is that it's incredibly
    expensive. Too expensive to smear over a whole horse on a regular
    basis...unless you've just won the lottery...
    
    John

    Hi,
    
    	I used EQUICARE repellent last year with excellent results -
    this year it's just not working -and neither is the Repel-x.  The
    worst is the deer and horse flies.  I'm wondering if they've formed
    a resistance.  I plan to buy Absorbine Super Shield - (black bottle)
    it's very strong - makes you wonder if we're killing ourselves and 
    our horses with these toxic substances.
    
    	I have been using one of those flynets on my horse - he loves it.
    The horse flies seem to get bad around 3 or 4 pm - my horse goes crazy.
    The solution was to hire a friend to put them in their stalls before 
    this time - and not wait for me to get home from work (it get's too
    late and they get chewed alive).
    
    	Any other suggestions?  Anyone know what works best on horse
    flies and deer flies?  The products I use all worked well on the
    black flies/ticks/mosquitoes and noseeums.
    
    - Janice

    
    I like the absorbine fly spray - repel-x makes all 3 horse gresey and
    puts little black egg like dirt in there tails.
    
    The horses wear the big flymasks with ears when they are out in
    the pasture and when I ride I put on the knitted fly mask/ears.
    I also spray the masks lightly with flyspray.  I spay myself
    down alot and I even spray my clothes and hard hard..I'm not
    a pretty sight or a nice smelling sight to my husband...but I
    don't hvae any trouble w/the bugs.
    
    good luck

    Is there a secret to getting the flymasks to stay on without a
    halter? The times I have tried them they are off fairly quickly,
    maybe my mare doesn't like them and rubbed it off herself, (I
    wasn't around to see the means by which it and horse parted company) 
    but the only way I was able to attach it to stay put I had to put a halter
    over it, and my horses never ever wear halters unattended.   
    A small, handheld spray bottle of repellent is a common accessory 
    for trail riders, and I also frequently see them carrying long 
    whisk-like sticks to swash around the horse.
    
    This past weekend I went out for a short ride and 'ponied' my pony
    along just to get her out a bit (her child-rider is away for the
    summer), she very quickly made it clear that she was *not* going to
    walk up alongside as usual but remained firmly in place directly
    behind my horse with her face buried in the tail....maybe the best
    fly control method is the buddy system! 
    
    

    I read a really good suggestion in "The National Horseman" this
    weekend.  This professional logger with horse interest wrote in on just
    this topic.
    
    Deer flies always attack at the head, so when he rides he uses old
    fashioned fly paper attached with an alligator clip around his riding
    helmet (and hardhat).  He's caught up to 30 flies at one time without
    knowing they were there.  
    
    Got to go to a meeting now.
    
    Hope someone tries this and tells how it works!

    Oops, I said "Supersect line that Equi-Care" makes when I should have 
    said "the Flysect line's Super-7 product that Equi-Care" makes. There's
    a difference in that we didn't find the other products even in that
    line as good as the Super-7(Super-C for concentrate). 
    
    Jan recently tried the Absorbine w/citronella in the black bottle on
    her horse. I don't think it was very effective. Needless to say, I
    didn't use it on mine.
    
    I never found the knit/crocheted type fly masks to be much use. The
    bugs(especially mosquitoes, black flies, gnats & no-see-ums) can get 
    through them.
    
    John

    Linda-
    
    my yearling is always taking his mother's fly mask off.  He loves 
    to chew and pull on the velcro tabs.  So I just soak it with the
    anti-crib spray, and he leaves it alone......for a while.....
    
    M

    
    I dont know about your knit fly mask, but I never have any trouble
    with bugs getting inside them.  There is no way the way mine is made
    that they can into the ear section, I guess you have to look around
    for different manufactures.  I have  mine the exact color of my
    horse so it's hard for others to tell I have one on, thats why I
    like it :-0
    
    L

    I am using Repel-X.  It seems to keep the flies off of me, but doesn't
    do much for the horses!  I will try some of the other products y'all
    have mentioned.  My wife and I clean up after the horses as soon as we
    can (sometimes 4 times/day--they are quite active!), but to no avail. 
    The squadron returns.  My wife met with some folks who own a Tennesse
    Walking horse farm west of Gardner (we also have Walkers) and they have
    a different way to control pests in their barn.  Each of their horses
    stalls has a raised wooden floor with shavings.  It wouldn't be a
    problem putting this in, but I am worried about mold and bacteria
    growing underneath the floor.  Has anyone tried this?
    Chris

    > ... My wife and I clean up after the horses as soon as we
    >can (sometimes 4 times/day--they are quite active!), but to no avail.
    
    That's because deerflies do not breed in manure or decomposing
    vegetation. Deerflies are one of the species which breed in/around
    water.
    
    For regular stable flies, we used predator species(I think they were
    tiny relatives of wasps) that used fly larvae as breeding sites. If you
    got enough of the predators early in the season and replenished the
    supply occassionally, they did an OK job of fly control without
    pesticides.
    
    Re deerflies going for the head 
    
    I've had enough deerfly bites on my arms and hands to disprove a claim
    that they aim strictly at the head. They may *prefer* the head so I can
    see where some fly paper on your helmet would help...

>>    I've had enough deerfly bites on my arms and hands to disprove a claim
>>    that they aim strictly at the head. They may *prefer* the head so I can

	I believe the note said "start at the head", not "aim strictly at
	the head", and I can vouch for that - without my helmet on, they
	just constantly buzz circles around my head! And, yes, do find the
	rest of me. But if they start at the head, then I expect the flypaper
	would get most of them before they got to the rest of me.

	I like it - I think I'll try it!

    Well , I was quite curious about the fly tape on helmet idea so I
    thought I'd give it a shot.  My first mistake was deciding that since
    the fly's buzzed the horses ears and poll, that would be the best place
    to put it. I cut a wide piece of burlap off the end of a grain bag,
    layed it over the horses neck and attached it to the bridle. I then
    cut a piece of sticky tape off a fresh bug roll (don't try this at
    home) yeck! and laid it on top of the burlap neck thing.  Well, you'd
    think this stuff would stick all by itself, and it does, but when you
    turn your back it curls up into a roll again and trys to get away.
    That's ok, I tied it on, yeck. 
    Instantly, I captured my first fly, this was neat! 
    I soon realized I needed elastics on the mane, yeck, no problem, then
    get the scizzors and cut the sticky hair off, yeck, that's ok. 
    
    So Off we went to the riding ring, what a grand experiment! 
    
    Well, things were going great!  I could see the little nasties buzzing
    in for a bite and then getting all stuck up, how satisfying! 4, then
    5, then 6, each time one came around he'd join the others. 
    

But then...

...the tables suddenly turned.  Just as I was delighting in my new
    invention, my mare had a change of heart.  With all these little buzzards 
    attached to her poll, she suddenly, franticly, decided she must have one 
    huge bug trying to eat her alive!  
    Do you have any idea how far a horse can lay their ears back if they work 
    at it?  
    They can s-t-r-e-t-c-h them back twice their length and fold them across 
    their poll if they want to knock a bug off bad enough! Well, I never saw 
    a horse do that before.  I couldn't move quick enough.

    Well, as you can see, plan A didn't work, off to formulate plan B (the 
    'helmet' idea is now much more appealing), after I finish getting the 
    glue off of my mares ears :-) 
    
    Yeck!
    Sharon

    Out on the 'net one of the subscribers to Equine-L suggested the
    following to get rid of flies around the barn:
    
    Make a "Stinky":
    
    Take a large plastic jug (like a gallon milk jug or a plastic jug to
    make "sun tea" out of) and poke lots of holes on the sides and the top. 
    Fill the jug with a couple of inches of water and a piece of raw meat. 
    She said that liver worked best.  
    
    Put the jug out near the barn in the sun - the flies will be attracted
    to the meat and when they flew/crawled into the jug to get at the meat, 
    they would drown in the water.
    
    The only messy part is cleaning up the bug carcasses - She said she
    would dig a hole every week (or even sooner) and bury what was in the
    jar (yuck!) and start all over again with a new piece of meat.
    
    Janet
    Lucky to be living in Germany where there's hardly any bugs and we
    don't have any screens for our windows!
    
    

    re: .23 - John, you mention the Super-7 and Super-C types of
    Equicare repellents.  This was the product I had used last 
    year - and have realized looking at the bottle - that this stuff
    is Equicare (something) but not 7 or C.  Apparently, I'm using
    a mild formula in this line.  Even the mild formula is
    working better than the Repel-X.   
    So, with all the different kinds of repellents - which are
    confusing - you also have to understand the varying degrees
    of repellency in each line.  I'll be buying Super-7 tomorrow.
    
    re: .29 - Ha, ha - Sharon - you're so brave trying this first! :^}
    I was worried about all the sticky stuff coming off on my helmet -
    but, then I thought I could spare a 1.50 plastic helmet cover for
    this 'strategy'...
    
    re: .30 - have one, tried it, didn't work.  Well, I haven't
    actually put rotting meat in it yet - I'm still using up the
    bottle of "scientifically developed fly attractant" - which
    seems to be working well as a repellent, hey, hmmm, er -
    HEY!!!! Maybe *THIS* is what I should be spraying on the 
    horses!!!
    
    sigh,
    
    	Janice
    
    
    re: .29

    I bought one of those trap 'n toss things because it was cheap.  If it
    didn't work I wouldn't be wasting a lot of money.  You should see it!
    I have to go get a bunch more...this one is absolutely stuffed full!
    

    Did ya ever find that when a product has "NEW - IMPROVED" on the
    package, it turns out to be worse than the old fashioned version?
    
    We got some of the Absorbine fly bonnets that I mentioned back in .18
    because the horses "sometimes" got the Farnam flymasks off in pasture.
    Actually, we got one at first and Charity wore it. It covers ears and face
    down to the muzzle. I figured they'd stay in place with the elastic and
    velcro. It did...on Charity[a.k.a. "She who never rolls"]. It stayed in 
    place on her so we got them for the other horses. 
    
    Needless to say, when we put them on all the horses, the fly bonnets
    started coming off. With Ellie["She who grinds herself into the ground
    when she rolls]...one roll and they're gone. Ben? Doesn't roll as
    "enthusiastically" as Ellie so he only looses his 2 times out of 3.
    
    So, we're back to the Farnam masks for those 2. But, I tried a
    variation with Ben. We had an old mesh ear bonnet with string ties. I put 
    that on him first and then add the Farnam face mask. It's working
    pretty well, so far. I'll let ya know if it fails later on.
    

    My yearling is the culprit for the fly masks on the ground
    syndrom.....I solvet it by periodically spraying the velcro strip
    w/ some anti chewing stuff.
    

    You mean the yearling undoes the velcro? Ellie's not that smart.
    Whenever we find hers off, the velcro is still closed. She's more like
    Houdini getting out of a straight-jacket without undoing the laces...

    
    
    But John....Ellie is smarter than you think!  She undoes the
    velcro, and then in order to fool you....she velcros it back together!
    
    I have seen other geldings take them off like they'd take off a
    halter....from the top over the ears.  Perhaps spraying the top might
    help.