Conference noted::equitation

    If I were you, I would definitly give the vet a call.  You are paying 
    for their service, and there is no reason why they shouldn't answer
    your questions, especially where your horses health is concerned.  We
    double worm with Strongid paste every year, and the horses are on
    a rotating wormer schedule.  With 14 horses, we have never had a 
    problem with worms!!!  If it isn't broken, don't fix it!!

    I was told to give my horse a double dose of strongle paste 
    and then to give her a regular dose in 2 weeks. I was told 
    that this was the method they are all using for tape worms and
    the spring is the best time to do it.
    I was told this by an assistant, I will talk to the vet more about
    it when she comes in a few days. It's been a while since my last
    horse and things have change quite a bit. Evidently they don't 
    tube worm anymore?  Do vets still do worming? 
    
    Sharon     

    Check the last couple of  Equus, there was an article on this. It is
    not all that new, it has been well tested, and the results were quite
    good. They found that it greatly reduced colic cases even in well
    managed barns that did not appear to have a worm problem. Fecal counts
    do not detect all worms, only the big ones that are passing out of the
    horse. The wormer is far less dangerous to the horse than the worms.
    

    I called the vet's office this morning.  I wasn't able to speak to the
    vet, but her assistant told me that neither she nor the vet knew very
    much about the wormer, nor did she think they had any documentation on
    it.  It has been on the market for 2 years.  She assured me that the
    USDA carefully tests anything before it goes on the market.  (I reminded
    her of the shot wormer that was taken off the market shortly after its
    introduction, when a number of horses had reactions (and some died), but
    she assured me that "They didn't drop like flies.  It was a localized
    reaction that upset some owners.")
    
    I explained that my concern is about the long-term (5 year/10 year) 
    effects of introducing a toxin into your horses system every day.  She
    told me that if they run into any documentation, they will pass it
    along.
    
    Mary

    
    	Hi all... If what's being addressed here is the use of a product
    called "Strongid-C" then I can talk about my own experience, so far.
    
    At the recommendation of my vet, I was given literature to read, a
    video tape to review and time to think.  We discussed this continuous
    feedthrough method with regard to my horses and my program and my
    concerns vs. the data available.  I decided that it had been tested
    enough, that I was satisfied the product was "quality" (it comes from
    the same folks that bring you strongid paste - except the active in-
    gredient is different) and the claims were focused in areas I had an
    immediate need for in my barn.
    
    After 30 days (now its been 6-7 weeks) I was able to see a NOTICEable
    difference in my yearlings appetite.  She had been through an almost
    incurable bout of flu during Christmas with allergic reactions and
    other life threatening symptoms.  When we got her thru that she seemed
    to have lost any interest in eating anything except hay, and occasional
    ly a mint or apple, or a mouthful of grain.  I was VERY concerned, 
    especially because we were trying to get her blood proteins back up
    where they belonged and she just didn't care about food. (And she was
    otherwise acting normally - fairly bright)  I would dump her grain in
    her bucket and she would have a bite and then be ready to go outside.
    
    NOW!  She stands and eats everything - even when the others have gone
    outside for their morning hay - and she finishes every drop.  She is
    putting on weight - shes shedding normally and growing every day...
    She was not a wormy baby - and she was wormed w/paste regularly - but
    this product seems to have made a significant difference in her ability
    to digest and utilize her food.
    
    And, just for the record, I've reduced by 25% the amount of feed I'm
    giving her mother because she is 'doing better' than ever before - shes
    actually looking a little 'pudgy'.  
    
    Both have clean stool samples  - but like the tape showed me - a stool
    sample is only as accurate a measure as that moment - and that progress
    of the worms - in fact if they've gotten to that stage/size you're
    already dealing w/a problem.  They had clean stool samples before the
    use of the Strongid-c
    
    I'd be happy to get more info if anyone else is interested.
    
    and, my vet is having the folks from (Ithink it is Pfiser) come and
    give a demo next month.
    
    holly
    
    

    Yes, Strongid-C is what the vet's office said this morning.   I can
    understand why you would make your choice, based on your situation. (I
    also think that it was very nice of your vet to give you literature and 
    the video to look over before making your decision.)
    
    I am interested in seeing some documentation, but am mainly interested 
    just in knowing the longevity of the tests to understand any long-term 
    consequences.   Some wormers work by irritating the lining of the stomach 
    or intestine, making it unlivable for the worm.  In this case, I can 
    visualize where long-term, chronic irritation, without relief, could 
    lead to serious consequences.  
    
    Thanks for the info.
    
    Mary

    
    Mary... your concern is a valid one.  It is my understanding that the
    contents of the strongid-c actually kill the worm rather than providing
    an "undesirable" environment for them to grow and develop in.. (ie;	
    irritating the lining of the intestine).  And, since it is constantly
    in the system it has a chance to truly rid the horse of all worms re-
    gardless of the state their in - as opposed to just getting those in
    the stomach and intestines during normal paste OR tubing.
    
    Any vet who can provide Strongid-C probably has the literature to go
    with it - I'm looking forward to meeting the Pfsier person in May
    and talking w/him when he comes to do a demo at my vets that is open
    and free to the public.  
    
    In the meantime I'm going to continue it for both horses as long as I
    see the kind of positive results I'm getting.
    
    Being informed and making decisions based on our own needs and with
    data always makes me feel better - responsible - and doing the best for
    my horses that I can.......
    
    smiles - h
    

    re -1.
    
    I'd like to come to the session your vet is giving about this wormer.
    Could you post the place / date /time ?
    
    thanks,
    -ellie

    Ditto!
    
    I would also like the number to contact them for a demo
    session for my horse club.  Please?
    
    Thx-
    
    Lynne

    Ditto again!  Could you please post when and where this session will
    be?
    
    Thanks!
    Mary

    
    	Unfortunately (for you all) this is going to be in Maine...
    	on May 14th.  BUT!  What I can do is call Trisha (my vet)
    	and ask her where someone can get in contact with the folks
    	from Pfiser to make arrangements for the same type of thing.
    
    	If any of you want to come to Maine and join me I'll happily
    	post the info - she just sent me a card in the mail looking
    	for responses to get an idea of how many to plan for.....
    
    	smiles - h
    
    

    Well, the vet came out this weekend and I got some of my questions
    answered.  Apparently, long-term consequences had been one of her
    primary concerns also, which was why she hadn't recommended this in the
    past.
    
    1.  There are horses who have been on strongid-C for 5 years, with no
    adverse affects reported.
    
    2.  They won't be fed wormer year round, only during the 5 peak worm
    months (starting in April immediately following the double-dose of
    strongid paste, ending September).
    
    3.  The horses will all have another fecal done at the end of summer to
    determine the effectiveness of the treatment.  If it hasn't been
    effective, I imagine we'll go back to 2-month paste rotation.
    
    4.  They will get Ivermectin paste in the fall or winter for bots and 
    other parasites killed by Ivermectin.
    
    I felt much better after talking to the vet, who, unlike her assistant, 
    answered my questions rather than giving me the run-around.
    
    The reason for changing the routine is that supposedly since the large
    strongyles have been so effectively decimated, the small strongyles
    have begun to really erupt.  These worms burrow into the intestine
    wall, where they are protected from wormers.  The only time they are
    vulnerable is for the short period before they've burrowed into the
    wall.  Giving the wormer daily is the only way to assure you've caught
    them during the short time periods that they are vulnerable.
    
    Mary