Conference noted::equitation

    We're in the process of putting in an outdoor ring at my house,
    too. Our land is gravel based, and all our excavator is doing is
    leveling a 70 x 180 area and adding 4 inches of sand. We are lucky
    in that our land is gravel, and the spot we picked is high and dry.
    I had looked into Fibar, but the cost is ridiculous (no wonder you
    see very few Fibar rings around!), and I am told a sand ring is
    generally considered the best option. For lighting, I am having
    my dad, who is an electrician, install two spotlights on tall
    metal poles. We had this on the farm I grew up on and it worked
    out super for years upon years. These will be at both short sides
    of the ring itself. I am going without fencing for at least a while,
    will probably just fill old milk jugs with sand and paint dressage
    letters on them as markers. Good luck!
    
    Linda
    
    

    The farm over the hill from me put in a Fibar surface on their indoor
    ring about one year ago. They chose it because it is supposed to be
    dust free. They are dissappointed, after a year it is as dusty as the
    sand surface they had before was. It needs a new top coat to restore
    it, more $$$. The best outdoor ring I have seen is built from a base
    of 4 in stone covered by 2 in gravel covered by pea gravel covered with
    sand. The big stone is 6 to 8 inches deep and the other layers are 4 in
    deep. After two years it still is as nice as when it was put in.
    Sandy
    

    The key thing is proper drainage.  We put in 4" of wood chips over
    basically what is forest loam soil (the pine trees that were there
    furnished the chips) and it is not good in the early winter, because
    it gets rutted and muddy, then the ruts freeze and become
    ankle-breakers until we get enough snow base for cushioning.  If I were
    to do it again, I would scrape off the loam and put a gravel and sand
    base on the subsoil, then chips on top of that. I would also back-hoe a
    couple of trenches along each side and fill them with stone and gravel
    for assured drainage.

	Is it really possible to ride through the winter months
	in an outdoor riding arena?  Townsend gets as much cold/snow
	as I get in Southern NH and I'd like to know how people can
	do it without resorting to walking and road hacking.

	My sand outdoor solidifies round about mid October and
	there is no way I could hold a trot for very long on 
	such hard ground.   Even if it snows, don't you run into
	the same problem?  Do people plow their riding arenas? 
	Also, how does this help the hard-footing problem?  I
	suppose borium would be a must, but then you can run
	into tendon problems. I've found I can't use my outdoor 
	between mid October until about mid March.	

	Its too bad there isn't a cost effective way to heat
	the ground of an outdoor to prevent it from freezing.
	It would probably end up costing as much as an indoor... :^}

	Melinda
	

    We pull the hind shoes and put the borium front shoes on in case of
    ice, and only ride if there has been sufficient snow to provide a
    cushion - say 4-5 inches or more.  The snow over frozen ground is not
    too bad a footing, but over ice is too slippery and if there is little
    snow (like last december) the ground is too hard and dangerous.  Also,
    the time you can ride is probably less than in warmer weather because
    the rider gets too cold.  The horses are fuzz balls anyway, so if you
    do work them much you should give them a belly clip so they don't stay
    wet and get cold.  If we get slick sheets of ice we sling forkfuls of
    shavings and manure from cleaning the stalls out onto the ice, to
    prevent falls.  Watch that the type of snow and the shoes you have on
    the horses don't cause build-up of snowballs in the foot, which could
    contribute to an injury.

    It's me again, the one with the desert horses.  We have started using
    manure in our arenas.  When dried out and mixed with the sand it
    produces less dust than the sand alone.  Also, when it is weted, it
    holds water longer.  We have never had to dump or have our manure
    picked up.  Of course, here manure dries out alot faster so there is no
    chance of attracting flies or other bugs.  It does attract rabbits and
    chickawas.
    	Any way, my neighbor is now complaining because his dogs are eating
    manure and bring it home.  I cited the city code about dogs being
    restrained or fenced inside the city limits.  He shut his mouth
    directly, but I do believe he was thinking of something else to
    complain about.  I'll just have to wait to get home and see what
    senceless note he has left for today. 
    
    
    vlm

    Re: mixing the manure with sand footing....
    
    What does that do to the consistency of the sand? Make if softer, or 
    firm it up??
    

    Actually, we have to bring the sides down once a week.  Meaning, we
    rake down the burm that is created when horses track along the same
    path.  This makes the footing deaper.  The only reason we add the
    manure is to keep the dust down.  So, at first it will firm it up. 
    Eventually, it ends up being the same consistency as the sand itself.
    	It needs to be understood, we don't put sand in our arenas, that is
    the base material.  We have tried dirt, shavings, and any other arena
    treatment on the market.  The desert has a way of reclaiming itself no
    matter what is done to try and stop it.  So sand it is.
    	There are areas where the sand is so fine and deep it is perfect
    for hindquarters work.  I drive my babies with tires or logs in these
    areas.  Some even have some good slow sloping hills for the riding
    horses.  
    
    vlm

    My riding ring is a natural mix of sand/clay.  We dump and
    spread the manure out there, and it helps keep the soil from
    becoming a dustbowl, softens up the footing, and gives us a
    place to get rid of the manure!
    
    L-

    My ring is sand with a clay base, I like the idea of keeping down
    the dust, but the sand is too deep already in spots, Id like to
    firm it up rather than soften it....which it doesn't sound like
    the manure would do for me. I think when I can afford to, I will
    rent a bobcat and scrap the sand down some in the offending corner.
    Ive been lucky, I have a friend who lives locally who has been carting
    off my manure pile to fertilize his HUGE lawn....:-)..
    

    It's great that someone can take your manure off your hands.  The best
    way to keep the arena sand even is to grade or rake often.  We do it
    once a week.  I don't have a tractor but all my horse have been taught
    to ground drive so I took and old harness and modified it to pull a
    drag.  The horses love it.  It gives them something different to do and
    a reason to act a little goofey.
    	As far as getting rid of manure,  that isn't a problem.  It's
    biodegratable and can be spread just about anywhere out here.  Like I
    said before, the rabbits and other desert dwellers love to pick
    through it and they spread it out enough to dry by morning.
    
    vlm

    Interesting idea, ground driving a horse pulling a drag on the ring!
    I do have a mare who is trained to drive, now all I need is a drag and
    an old harness.....hm, anyone have an old harness hanging around they
    are not using..??? :-)  I do rake my ring by hand a few times a month,
    but THAT gets tedious fast, it's just too darn big to do that way. I
    really dont seem to have much of set "track" though, my ring also
    doubles as a part of my turnout area, so the horses wander around loose
    in there all time, it probably beats down the track.....
    

    To be honest, ours isn't realy an arena.  To say, it isn'n enclosed, no
    rail.  It is just and area that has telephone poles to show
    boundries.(laid down).  It is easier to maintane because we just move
    the poles and drag the whole thing.
    
    	For the driving part, our main "pulling" horse is a 21 year old TB
    broodmare.  She has mellowed with age and is very quiet.  I wouldn't
    recomend any horse that doesn't stop well because sometimes you hit
    something that catches the drag and stops the horse short.  If your guy
    doesn't stop right off the drag can come loose and smack him right in
    the rear, and we know what that will produce.  I haven't had that
    happen so far.
    
    
    	vlm

    Re keeping down the dust in an outdoor arena...
    
    This probably won't work for our desert dweller but there is a product
    on the market which is supposed to help control dust when an arena is
    dry AND control puddles when it rains! 
    
    The product is a synthetic crystal of some kind that absorbs enormous
    amounts of water when it rains and then slowly releases that water back
    into the soil as the soil dries out.
    
    I checked it out for our arena because we get rain all winter and
    virtually no rain in the summer. I haven't put the stuff into our arena
    yet but I'll probably do it this summer. The stuff was originally 
    developed for potted plants I think but works fine outdoors if it's
    covered w/soil or footing material. Sunlight is supposed to break it
    down. The stuff costs about $0.05 per square foot. I was quoted a price
    of $650-700 to do a large dressage arena. Actually, a large dressage
    arena is 66'x198' or 13,068 sq feet but ours is slightly oversized 
    (70' x 200') at 14,000 sq feet to allow for markers, etc.
    
    I've seen this stuff advertised by 2 different suppliers in magazines
    like The Chronicle and EQUUS.

    That stuff might work for us.  We still water our area.  Although it
    isn't recomended(water wastage), we still have to if we are showing
    horses to a potential buyer.  No one likes to eat dust. 
    	Let me know how it works for you.  We will always try something new
    if it can help our problems.
    
    vlm

    
    	Is anyone using the shredded/ground tires in their ring?
    	I'm curious to hear how you like it. A friend is considering
    	trying it, right now he's got clay/sawdust mix (the clay in
    	indigenous, VA) but it gets dusty when it's stirred up. We 
    	have sand, it's packed down pretty well but it does also get
    	dusty when there are several people in the ring.
    
    	Sherry
    

    I have seen the "tire" stuff used in Mexico on the race track.  I have
    never gone into finding out if it is available to small farm owners.  I
    did notice that there was virtually no dust and the dirt kicked up fell
    back to the ground rather quickly.  Also, I was told that it doesn't
    decompose or get broken down as quickly as other track or turf
    products.  That is something to check out myself.  If I find out
    anything I'll let you know.
    
    			vlm

    My instructor uses something on the indoor surface in the winter.  It
    gets dusty!  I thought she said it was DE (Dianatious Earth), the stuff
    you use in pool filters, but maybe she spread that for flies and uses
    the crystals for the arena.  I'll have to ask her.  But whatever she
    uses works!

What are the environmental issues around that stuff?  Massachusetts is
VERY strict on many things.  Wouldn't that be considered dumping or
pollution or some such?

Ed..

    re .19
    
    Which stuff?  The water-absorbing crystals, or the diatomaceous earth,
    or the ground tires?  
    
    Re the water-absorbing crystals -- I had some literature on this stuff,
    because I was considering it for my garden, but I decided against it. 
    Anyway, if you are putting the stuff down yourself, be VERY careful. 
    It says in the literature I had that it is very dangerous to inhale
    this dust.  I guess it must do as good a job at absorbing fluids in
    your lungs as it does on the ground...  
                                                                     
    As for the ground tires, I've been interested in this ever since I first
    heard about it in England.  Does anyone know if this stuff is available
    here?  Other than to tracks and other large consumers, that is.  I've
    also wondered if this stuff would be softer to land on that the dirt! 
    8^)))
    
    -ellie

I was referring to the tires.  A note got in before mine.

It seems that with the stink (no pun intended) that Mass makes about almost
everything they would take issue with tires being put (buried in their mind)
in the ground (even though they are ground up).  Would it not be an issue
when you are using it, but only when you decide to use the space for 
something else (or sell the property)?

Ed..

    That is a good question. (about the tires).  I'll have to call my
    In-laws in Texas.  They go to the Mexico tracks every summer.  They
    also have draft horses and I belive they were concidering using the
    tires in their drag area.  It will probably be a few days before I can
    get an answer.  I think they are in Mexico now.
    	I think they got their tire stuff from one of the tracks also.
    
    
    vlm

    I sent away for the sample of the shredded rubber.  My uncle is in 
    the recycling tire business and I sent it along to him for a marketing/
    business building FYI.  He does not think the shredded material is
    actually a used tire.  (He shreds tires for fuel in energy plants).
    
    My concern was what would happen when the rubber combined with soil,
    sand?  WHat happens in 20 years if someone decideds it's not a good
    thing to do (similar to oil tanks in the ground)?  Tires are considered
    hazardous waste....so I'll probably stick w/ clay/sand mixture and deal
    with the dust.
     

    re: spreading manure in the riding ring
    
    I don't advise it, all it does is turn the ring to muck....the kind
    that removes shoes!

    I can only hope that my spreading in the ring would make
    it that damp! (-;
    My ring is actually about 20 ft of very well draining
    sand/clay mix.  Even after last nights downpour, it
    has already drained off.  The manure/shavings keep it
    from becoming a dustbowl....
    
    L-

    The only reason I use manure in the riding area is to keep down the
    dust.  We also have no where to put a "pile".  There is a man at the
    local nursery that will come and pick up the pile but he comes when he
    wants to and I hate for the stuff to sit around too long.  I use what I
    can.  We only have 4 horses right now and they don't seem to produce
    alot of manure.
    	The information on the tires is greatly appreciated.  I was
    seriously concidering using it.  not now!
    
    vlm

    
    	Equus has been regularly advertising the shredded rubber, the
    	ad says they will send you a sample. But of course I can't find
    	the ad right now.....
    
    	Sherry
    

I know a number of people here in the UK that use shredded rubber as a riding 
surface. I is supposed to excellent for dressage as it not a dead surface and
imparts a bounce which enables the horse to perform better. I have heard that 
it is not so good for jumping as it tends to be slippery, especially when wet.

Other types of surface that are in common use here are mixtures of sand and
plastic fibre and sand and plastic beads. The effect of the fibre/beads is to
bind together the grains of sand an produce a firmer surface.

David.

    
    Another interesting one I have seen here (UK) quite a lot is the
    plastic insulating stuff they put round electric wire. Seems quite
    effective.