Conference noted::equitation

    
    	The previous note reminded me that I saw an advertisment in the
    Sunday paper for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to be at the
    Cumeberland (Maine) Fair in a couple of weeks.........
    
    	If there is interest please let me know and I will look up
    when and where...........
    
    	holly
    

	Do you know which troupe of Lippizans this one is?
	There are several in the country, some with better
	reputations than others.   I saw a show at the Centrum
	once (in 86 or 87?) which was pathetic.   I suppose to
	the untrained eye it was enjoyable to watch white horses
	attempting to ride in formation.  But it was quite a let
	down for me.   I'd seen the Spanish Riding school show
	in the Boston Gardens (which was superb!) and I had sort 
	of assumed it would be close to that in quality. Boy was
	I wrong.   

	Its too bad I don't recall the name of the troupe I saw,
	although the word 'Royal' rings a bell...

	Melinda

    RE. -1
    
    It said Spanish, first American tour in 8 years.  I hope thats the
    good one, for the price it should be!!

    I saw the "Royal Lippizan Stallions" in Pittsburgh, Pa this spring.
    They were from Florida, had a couple Andalusions along with the
    Lippizans. They also had a trick rider with a couple Amer. Saddlebreds.
    It was very circusy, not really much quality dressage. One of the
    horses was obviously off on a hind leg, but they still tried to do
    "airs above the ground" with him. They were performing on homosote duck
    taped over a basketball court and it was too slippery. As you can tell,
    I was a bit dissapointed. A couple horses could have really used a toe
    trim too.
    Sandy
    

	re .74 Thanks for the info!  This is a 'must see' show!
	
		-melinda

    Re: .76
    
    Melinda,
    
       I believe this is the Spanish Riding School.  I have seen ads for
    their upcoming tour and the Worcester Centrum was one of the places
    they will be - and the date is around the correct time.  I'll try to
    find the ad.  I saw them in NYC on their last tour and they were really
    good.  I also saw the Royal Lipizzan Stallion show, which I thought was
    not really good (more circus and showmanship than riding).
    
    						Jan

    
    
    I too say the lippizaners in Worcester it was about 6 years ago.
    They had a couple Andalusian stallions and a trick rider (jumped
    through a hoop of fire).  I still have the program from that show
    at home somewhere.   They are truly magnificant animals, the training
    they have under their belts is extraordinary!!
    
    Do see them!
    
    Nancy
    

    Re: .7
    
    Nancy,
    
       Sounds like you saw the Royal Lipizzan Show and not the Spanish
    Riding School.  The Spanish Riding School has only Lipizzaners and no
    trick riders.  The last time the Spanish Riding School was in the USA
    was in 1982 (I still have the stub from my ticket to see them!).
    
    						Jan

    It is THE Spanish Riding School from Vienna who is coming to the
    Centrum in Worcester. The Employee Activity poster got their title
    mixed up with the US Lipizzan group. Both the AHSA Horse Show Magazine
    and the Horseman's Yankee Pedlar have advertisements for their visit.
    
    The dropouts from the Spanish Riding School, the Lipizzaners that they
    breed but don't think are suitable to stay in the school are sold and
    sometimes form the basis of these other Lipizzan troups.

    
    I also had the pleasure of seeing the Spanish Riding School Lippizan
    Stallions in 1982 when they made their first visit to the USA in 18
    years.  They conducted a full display to music that lasted at least
    2+ hours.  This was held at Madison Square Garden in New York City.
    
    I can not imagine that any other group could put on the type and 
    quality of display that original Spanish Riding School could do.
    They demonstrated the training of the younger stallions and also did
    many Airs-Above-The-Ground.  It was truely beautiful.  My husband took
    some wonderful photos of them that I cherish.  They are the Classic 
    Dressage riders that can not be matched.  
    
    See them if you can.. it will be well worth it.     Marti

My husband and I already have tickets to see this show -- I'm pleased that it
is purported to be so terrific...

In .10 Marti said they got pictures at Madison Square Garden in '82; will they
allow cameras in the Centrum?  Does anyone know?

Can't wait to see it.

janet.

    Hey, I was at Madison Square Garden, too!  I've still got my t-shirt.
    
    Mary

    RE:  .1  Holly,
    
    YES_YES_YES -- More on the royal Mounted Canadian Police 
    
    PLEASE_!

    As far as taking pictures was concerned, we were NOT permitted to 
    use a flash.  My husband used 400 speed film in his Minolta 35mm
    camera.  We were seated at about the 50 yard line in a box only
    two up from the rail.  They were excellent seats.  We had purchased 
    the tickets in December prior to the show in August.  They were in
    very high demand, since it was the first time in 18 years that they
    were to give a performance to the US public.
    
    I will definitely be on the look out for information on this.  Does
    anyone know the date of the performance?    Enjoy Everyone!  

the dates are october 12,13,14. 8pm.

can't wait! (i'm going on the 12th)  we have floor seats (rather than
balcony) hope they're good!

janet.

    We were about mid-way up in Madison Square Garden and my husband got
    some really nice pictures.  He also used a fast film without a flash. 
    I can see why they would not like people using cameras with a flash
    since anyone up close could spook the horses with it.
    
    						Jan

I live in Atlanta, but I may be in Nashua area for those dates (for training).
How much are tickets?  How far would I have to drive?  Anyone know someone
on the Employee Activities Committee I could contact to get tickets?
I've *never* seen a Lipizzaner performance.  This would be a great 
opportunity.

Thanks,

Roseanne Rogers
VMS Workstation Software Support
Atlanta Customer Support Center

    
    Nashua to Worcestor is about 50 minutes - as New England roads go
    - a pretty straight forward drive.

    Does anyone know where else in the US they might be traveling? I am
    14 hours drive from Worchester, but would love to see the real horses.
    Sandy
    

    
    
    Regarding 1339.1-
    
    	Holly could I have more info on the Mounted Police???  I have
    	a 4-H group and I would love to take them there!  
    
    	Also can anyone give me a number to call to get tickets for
    	the Lippizan Stallions in Worchester??  I will buying them
    	for my 4-H group so I was also wondering if I could buy them
    	through Digital???  
    
    	Thanks very much!!!
    
    	Zina

    
    	Hi Zina... and others who have sent me mail directly...
    
    	I am trying (desparately!) to find out more info on the
    	RCMP...  as soon as I have something confirmed I will
    	post it here. 
    
    	I'll try a Portland paper if necessary (since the Cumberland
    	Fair is in Cumberland County and closter to Portland area).
    
    	stay tuned - h
    
    

    Is there any way through Employee Purchasing to get specific tickets.
    I'd like to be somewhere near the ring and would rather spend more
    money if I could get better seats.
    Any suggestions??
    		Cindy
    

    FYI, How to Order tickets..........
    
    
   Send the following to Employee Services, MRO2-2/4D
    Check payable to "employee Services" mail completed form (duplicate
    below), check and a business size, self addressed, stamped envelope.
    
    
    			ACTIVITY REQUEST FORM
    	(Tickets are honored on a First come, first serve basis)
    	If the allotment of reservations is sold out, I understand that
        my money will be refunded.
    
    EVENT: ______________________________ DATE OF EVENT: ____________________
    Number of Reservations: __________ Enclosed Check for: __________________
    Your Name: ___________________ LOC/MS:_________DTN________BADGE_______
    Node:_______________________ Home address: __________________________
    City:_________________________ STATE:__________ Zip Code: _________
    
    
    
    

    
    
    	Thanks for the form, but I have another question...  Are they
    	cheaper through Digital or are they still $22 and what are the
    	dates?
    
    	Thank you-
    
    	Zina

    
    I think the Employee Services deadline was the 24th?   
    
    Anyway, I drove into Worcester, to the centrum box office and 
    selected the tickets we wanted.  Since 10 are going, I wasn't sure how
    many we could get together in the best spots.  I ended up getting 10 
    tickets one section off the center...... 8 rows off the floor.  We
    could have had center section ones, but they were further back.
    
    Ticket master is handling ticket sales, the centrum has their number if
    you call their General Info number 508-755-6800. 
    
    michele (who made it to the boxoffice w/ 2 minutes to spare!)
                                                                 

    The deadline is Sept. 24th, so there should still be some time.  I
    hope.
    
    Mary

    Could someone please post directions to the Worcester Centrum?  I'll be
    coming from NH, so I would be taking route 3 south, to 495 west, but
    which exit do I get off at, and where do I park once I'm there?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Tina

    
    RE: 1339.13........... Royal Canadian Mounted Police Show....
    
    First please accept my appologies for not getting the details of
    this info in here sooner.. I ended up having to call the Cumberland
    County Fairgrounds in order to get any data... but here it is!
    
    	THE R.C.M.P. will be performing at the Cumberland County 
    Fair on Sunday and Monday September 23rd and 24th with shows each
    day at 2:30 and 8:pm   There will also be a single show on Tuesday
    September 25th at 3:pm
    
    	Admission to the fairgrounds is $4 for folks over 17 and free
    for under 16 (good for 4H kids,etc) and there is no additional fee
    for the RCMP Show.
    
    	The number for the Cumberland County Fairgrounds is 829-5531

    Some corrections on the information comtained in this note:
    
    o The show runs at the Centrum October 11th - 13th (Thrurs - Sat)!!!
    
    o Show starts at 8pm
    
    o Tickets, when not purchased thru Employee Services, are $35, $25, $19,
      & $12 respectively.
    
    

             <<< DELNI::WORK$01:[NOTES$LIBRARY]EQUITATION.NOTE;2 >>>
                          -< Equine Notes Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 1375.0                Lippizaner Tix Available!!!                No replies
DELNI::PYNCHON                                        9 lines  10-OCT-1990 13:45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A group of friends and I have tickets to tomorrow (Thurs) night's Lippizan
    Stallion show in Worcester.  Three people can't make it and I am
    offering them on a first come, first serve basis.  They are $28.50 each
    and can be picked up at the box office (I will leave them in people's
    names).  Please call me at 226-7742 or send mail to DELNI::PYNCHON if
    you are interested.  The sow starts at 8:00 at the Worcester Centrum.
    
    
    Sarah Pynchon

    Given the short time span, any reasonable offer (and maybe some
    unreasonable) will be considered for the Lippizan tickets listed
    in the previous reply.
    
     

	So, what did everyone think of the Lippizzan show in Worcester?

	We were able to visit the horses before the show and talk with
	one of the riders. We had a quick 5 minute tour by one of the
	grooms and he gave us a very quick talk about some of the horses.

	I hadn't seen them before and I was very glad to have the chance to
	see them during this visit.

	What did others think?

	Linda

	(who-saw-them-Friday-night-and-decided-not-to-visit-her-horse-
	 on-Saturday  ;^))

    I WENT WITH A FRIEND ON FRIDAY NIGHT.  THE PERFORMANCE WAS BREATH
    TAKING.  I AM GLAD I WAS ABLE TO SEE THEM AND IF THEY EVER COME BACK I
    WOULD HOPE TO BE THE FIRST IN LINE FOR TICKETS. IN MY OPION THE BEST
    PART WAS THE LEAD CHANGES.  THEY CHANGED LEAD WITH SUCH STYLE AND GRACE
    IT WAS HARD TO THINK OF THAT MANY POUNDS COULD BE SO GRACEFUL.  BUT
    THEY ARE!
    
    I WAS NOT LUCKY ENOUGH TO VISIT WITH THE HORSES BEFORE THE SHOW BUT I
    WAS ABLE TO SEE THEM IN THEIR STALLS.  
    
    RE: .33 
    WHAT DID THE GROOM HAVE TO SAY DURING YOUR VISIT?  WERE YOU ABLE TO
    GIVE ANY OF THE HORSES A PAT?  IF SO, ARE THEY ARE SOFT AS THEY LOOK?
    

    I went Saturday, and the show was wonderful.  The training, the
    grace....  In case they come back, how does one get to go see them in
    their stables?  
    
    Tina

	We were able to see the stallions just by chance. We walked around
	the Centrum following the "horsey scent" (which I first mistook for
	my sneakers :^)) and found a back door which was open. Right inside
	the door were the port-a-stalls, vans, tack, grooms, and a couple of
	riders. 

	They let the bystanders visit in groups of 8. These horses were
	incredibly well-behaved. We were able to take some pictures, pat
	the horses, talk to whoever was there, etc. 

	The groom which we talked to was doing his best to answer 50
	questions at one time from our group. He talked to each horse as
	he went along and gave them each a pat. We noticed a huge container
	full of bags of carrots which, after seeing the show, the horses
	sure had earned!

	I enjoyed the Lippizan performance (friday night) and it lived up to all
	my expectations.   The movements were so consistently light and agile 
	and correct - it really was beautiful.  

	One of the highlights for me, was spotting my first dressage
	instructor, who, together with Karl Milolka, was in the audience 
	taking notes, since they direct the Lippizan's at Tempel Farms in 
	Illinois and they wanted to get some fresh ideas for their performances.

	I think my only comment about the horses is this:  My aren't
	they SMALL horses?   I knew they were, but it sure was very
	noticeable to me.  Even with the utmost elegance in executing
	their movements, to me, they can never have the same presence
	of a larger moving horse.  

	Melinda

    This was the third time around that I've seen the Lippizans.  It has
    been interesting to see how my eye has changed over the years. 
    Overall, it was as wonderful as I expected, although I was a little
    disappointed over the work in the pillars.  I was there Friday night,
    and the horse was resistant to going in.  I couldn't blame him; they
    seemed to keep him piaffing forever.
    
    I especially liked the last quadrille, the work on the short rein, the
    solo, the pas de deux and the caprioles.  The horse that did capriole
    really seemed to enjoy and look forward to his leap.  I thought the
    bay's movement was especially fluid, and several of them had absolutely
    gorgeous passages and a couple had really wonderful extended trots.  It
    was interesting to see how much their movement varied...from longer and
    fluid to round, carriage horse-type.
    
    The first time I saw them is still my favorite...it was a schooling
    session in Vienna.  It was a baby class and it was wonderful to watch
    all the youngsters working so quietly and attentively.  Points I
    remember are that they all worked 2 on one (that is 2 trainers to a
    horse) and that everything was very quiet and controlled.  Has to be
    with all the horses lunging and in the early stages of backing.  One
    horse got loose.  No frantic cries of loose horse, though!  Work in the
    immediate vicinity stopped and they contained him in a circle of horses
    and trainers.  Then his primary trainer held out a treat and waited for
    him to return.  It happened so quickly and was handled so expeditiously
    that I almost missed it.
    
    In the afternoon, the stables were open to visitors.  Most of the
    horses were tied in the corners of their stalls (no doubt to prevent
    carrot colic ;-) and several horses were in standing stalls.  They were
    bedded about 2 feet deep in immaculate straw.  A worker walked up and
    down the aisles with a pitchfork and a little contraption to scoop the
    manure into.  The minute a tail lifted, he was there.  One horse had 
    slipped out of his halter and was poking his nose through the bars of 
    his stall to be patted.
    
    Anyway, this past weekend, I almost went back on Saturday night, but
    I'm flat broke at the moment.  I did leave with an assortment of
    posters, etc.  Thank heavens for plastic!
    
    Mary
    
    ps.  Melanie, remember the lesson of the Yoda.  Size matters not!
    (hey, whaddya expect from someone who is 5'2"?)

             <<< DELNI::WORK$01:[NOTES$LIBRARY]EQUITATION.NOTE;2 >>>
                          -< Equine Notes Conference >-
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Note 1385.0        LIPAZZAN STALLIONS ON T.V. 10/30 & 11/3/90.        No replies
MPGS::GREGG                                          12 lines  30-OCT-1990 08:45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Lipazzan Stallions from the Centrum well be on T.V.
    tonight 10/30 from 6-7.  Saturday 11/3 from 6-7.  They
    will be part of a show viewed on cable channel 3 (Grafton Ma)
    area.  This is a show I will view.  I was luckly enough to
    see them live and now to have the chance to see them again.
    I can not believe it.
    
    I am sure that anyone that saw them will be interested in seeing them
    again and for the few that were not able to attend the performace will
    have their chance now to see what evering one else is talking about.
    
    Hope you all enjoy the show.

    re: .39
    Cable channel 3 for the Grafton,MA. area is a local excess channel
    for Greater Media Cable users.  WGMC  (Worcester County)
    

    Hi,
    
    Does anyone have info. on the Royal Lippiza (sp) show at the Lowell
    Aud.  How much are the tickets?  
    
    Has anyone seen this show before?  
    
    Thanks,
    
    Andrea  

    The Royal Lipizzaner Stallions perform tonight at 7:30 at the
    Lowell Auditorium.  Tickets are 13.50-17.50 Call 931-2000.
    (From fridays Herald).

    I've seen it before, some years ago.  It's not connected with the
    Spanish Riding School, by the way.  The horses are Lipizzans, but
    tha's about it.  They do some hit-or-miss dressage, but I found it very
    interesting and enjoyable.
    
    -e

    What they do is "circus" dressage as opposed to classical dressage.  No
    comparison between the two.  But, with proper expectations (don't
    expect to learn anything about dressage from watching), its enjoyable.
    
    mary

    re .-1
    
    Yes, that's exactly what it is.  When I saw it they even did things
    like Spanish Walk and Spanish Trot -- looks like horses goose-stepping.
    So, no, it's nothing like real high-level dressage, but I still ofund
    it sort of fun.
    
    Anybody know if this is the same troop Karl Mikolka worked with for a 
    while?
    
    -ellie

    I would doubt it.  Was Mikolka trained at the SRS?  I know he worked
    with a group performing with Lippizaners (I think in the midwest or 
    thereabouts) but I remember it had a different name.  The Royal
    Lipizzaner group has been around for a long time.  I saw them about 20
    years ago at Madison Square Garden...
    
    mary

	There is a group called "Hermann's Royal Lippezan Stallions", and
	Mr Hermann and his family all ride Lippezans. He claims to be the
	grandson of the man who owned the Lippezans that Patton rescued
	during the second World War, and the horses to be those horses'
	descendants.

	His farm is in Florida, and he does travel up here with his sons,
	daughters, their husbands and wives and children, and brings
	stallions (I don't remember if he had any mares, but he had some
	young colts in training, and some that were dark brown Lipps).

	Yes, they are very "circus-like"; women ride as well as men, and
	they are not as classical as the Spanish riding school. But the
	horses are beautiful, and they do some of the haute ecole moves,
	as well. They show how they train the young ones; it's interesting.

	If you see them at an outdoor exhibition in the nice weather, you're
	also allowed to go to the stabling tents and pat them. 

    re .31
    
    Yes, Mikolka was trained at the SRS.  I forget what level he reached
    before he left.  I think the name of the group he was with was Temple
    Lippizans.

    Re .32
    >There is a group called "Hermann's Royal Lippezan Stallions", and
    >Mr Hermann and his family all ride Lippezans. He claims to be the
    >grandson of the man who owned the Lippezans that Patton rescued
    >during the second World War, and the horses to be those horses'
    >descendants.
    
    The Lippizaner that Patton rescued at the end of 1945 were from the
    Austrian National Stud at Piber. The Germans had occupied Austria as
    well as Czechoslovakia and confiscated horses to be used as cart
    horses. The German Army in WWII used more horse flesh than trucks to 
    move freight. They moved large numbers of horses into Czech territory
    to avoid the Allied bombing raids. 
    
    The Austrian Lippizaner were among that large mixed herd. They were 
    returned directly to Austrian government control. Those horses are the 
    Lippizaner generally referred to when people speak of Patton's rescue.
    
    It is likely that the Germans had also confiscated privately owned horses
    and had mixed them into the large herd. It is also possible that some of 
    them were Lippizaner owned by Mr Hermann's ancestors. However, I think
    it unlikely that his ancestors would have been able to identify and 
    regain their horses. If they did manage it, great. But, I'd take such
    stories with a grain of salt.

	I find it interesting how the term 'circus' dressage and
	Karl Mikolka's name is coming up in the same topic. 
	What's interesting is that my recollection of Karl Mikolka's
	views are that he believes there is a bit of the circus
 	even in classical dressage.  A person who considers himself/herself
	to be "classically correct" would object to any sighting of 
	"circus dressage."  Karl, who is a highly regarded classical
	dressage trainer, would try to explain to such a person, that
	some aspects of classical dressage are indeed meant to be "circusy."

	I think this opinion ties together with the common criticism people
	hear today about how 'the horse knows the tricks, but not
	the fundamentals.'   That sort of criticism may be correct,
	but just remember, the fundamentals without the tricks is no good 
	either.
        
	Melinda

    Melinda --
    
    Couldn't agree more!  And what would ballet be like if no one ever 
    put "fun" movements into it?  And it also seems I run into too many
    people who take dressage as *serious business* and don't seem to be 
    *having* any fun at all either.  Seems to show in their horses too...
    
    -ellie

    Me too! If it ain't fun, it ain't dressage! Because all that
    "seriousness" shows in the horse's woodenness and lack of joy in its
    movements. 
    
    I'm also gonna extend something Melinda said. Melinda said
    "fundamentals without the tricks is no good either." BTW, I'm understanding
    "tricks" here to mean impressive movements like extended trot, piaffe,
    passage and pirouette. Movements like canter on 3 legs or canter
    backwards are another matter. Anyway, I'd say that tricks without
    fundamentals CAN'T be good. 

    FWIW, when I refer to circus dressage vs classical dressage, I mean:
    
    1. "cantering backwards," "Spanish Walk," bowing and other "tricks"
    
    2. imitations of dressage movements that are totally incorrect
    (classically speaking) due to lack of foundation training.  For 
    example, if you watch a circus horse do "haute ecole" movements next 
    to a SRS horse doing the same movements, there is simply no comparison.  
    Or, say, extended trot.  A circus horse will have been taught to throw 
    their front legs high and straight in the air, but will have no 
    engagement or thrust from behind.  The result is that the diagonal pairs 
    no longer move in parallel. Even someone who knows nothing about
    dressage can clearly see the differences.  A circus trained horse also
    will lack the fluid and light movement of a classically trained
    dressage horse.
    
    Mary

I just say a copy of "Weekend" from the Denver Post and saw that the 
Lippizan Stallions will be performing in Denver (I can't remember where)
on Sept 17 and 18. This was a little pull out section in the Post like
"Parade" I'm sure they will be advertising again. They will probably at 
the Coliseum.

LJ

I went to the see the Royal Lipizzaner Stallions this weekend.
I'm not much of horse-person although I enjoy riding, etc.
I was really amazed in the differeces in the builds of some of the
horses. 
I guess they used andalusions also. 
Some of the horses where long bodied and had long slender necks.
(andalusions?)
and some of the horses where shorter-backed with heavily muscled necks.
They were all beautifull though.
I always pictured a lipizzaner as small heavily muscled horses sort of 
like a morgan or something. 
These horses all looked like the went 15.5 to 16.5 hands.
Then they brought out an arabian and I was surprised with the size difference.
The Arabian was a slender almost fragile looking horse even thought it 
was a stallion.
 
It was something to remember.
Lisa

    Anyone have info on Lipizzaner show in Manchester  NH, April 7 ?
    Heared only part of the ad.