Conference noted::equitation

    I worked for an Arab farm for a couple years. I remember the owner
    saying she had a mare once that did the same thing. Her vet came
    out and gave the mare a shot and then she was fine from then on.
    I know the vet that was there when she told us this had never heard
    of it. Maybe if you ask around you may find a vet who can help you.
    
    Good Luck
    Gina
    

    I was thinking along the same lines as .1.  Couldn't they give her
    some type of hormone shot to get her straightened out enough to
    let the foal nurse etc at least until weaning time?  Good luck
    and let us know what happens.
    
    Linda
    
    

    Both my husband and I have heard of this before...not sure what
    was done but will definitely look into it.  There must be something
    that can be done...just need to find out what.
    
    

    We tried the foal last night with a nurse mare.  The mare accepted
    her fine but the foal is unable to get her head into the correct
    position needed to latch onto the mare.  She nurses fine from a
    bottle and is taking 4 gallons of formula per day.  She is running
    a fever and I hope we don't have to go back to shots.  She is currently
    on an oral antibiotic.  They had to redo her external fixation also.
    Her spirits are excellent.  She loves people and doesn't miss momma
    at all.
    
    The mare doesn't even seem to look for her at all.  She quieted
    down after the foal was taken off the property and just acts as
    normal as ever.  She is very affectionate towards us and shows no
    further signs of aggression even towards the goat.  
    
    A friend told me the reason Rochester won't give an opinion is because
    they don't want to commit themselves.  I showed them the tape and
    they didn't pick up the idea of hormone imbalance.  My years of
    breeding dogs told me she was acting stud-like.  
    
    I am just so scared to breed her again for fear the same thing would
    happen all over again.  This baby is costing me over $200 per week
    to raise and that don't include vet bills.
    
    Any help you can give me is greatly appreciated.
    
    Nancy  264-4843
    603-887-2653
    
    P.S.  Would the tape help any of you?  How about a visit?

    If I owned the mare I definitly wouldn't rebreed her unless you
    can find out what this is all about and if it is a hormone imbalance
    get her on some type of hormone.  The other thing you have to take
    into consideration is the fact that she could pass these character-
    istics onto her foals.  Could it be possible that the mare and foal
    weren't allowed the appropriate time for bonding?

    If you could see the tape I made of her and her foal you would see
    the aggressive dominating behavior.  Plus you can also see her
    urinating with her tail cocked to the side as she prances across
    the paddock.  Her mother is an excellent mother and has had about
    six foals.  She is a witch with people for the first few weeks but
    great with babies.  
    
    She was nursing the baby and other than a bit aggressive was caring
    for it without intervention from me for three days.  I heard the
    scuffle in the stall and was horrified to see her attacking the
    baby with no mercy.  She wanted the foal out of her stall and out
    of her life.  She felt no bond to it as was apparent when we took
    her away to Rochester.  She didn't even nicker to her.  Before the
    attack, she was licking the baby and allowed her to nurse but was
    not motherly towards it.
    
    I really think she thinks it magically appeared in her stall and
    somehow she was suppose to take care of it even though she really
    wasn't sure she wanted to.  I think she let her nurse because it
    made her feel better to relieve the pressure.  She didn't nurture
    her or talk much to her.  She dominated her and intimidated her.
    
    
    The film really shows the story.  The more I watch it the clearer
    it becomes to me.  I just don't know if a hormone imbalance is
    correctable or worth trying to correct and how much is not hormones
    but behavioral.
    
    Nancy

    I would still check with a few vets as from your description the
    mare sounds like a nice one that you have put a lot of time and
    expense into.
    
    Keep the faith.
    

    Could anyone give me some good breeder/vets that I could call to
    talk to?  Or possibly an equine vet that specializes in reproduction.
    This problem can't be unusual.  Anyone know of a vet at Tufts that
    would be willing to talk to me?
    
    Thanks for all your help.  I am a nervous wreck trying to make
    decisions and I don't want to slight my mare but I also can't keep
    her if I can't breed her.  She deserves to be shown and I can't
    afford it.  She loves to be worked and loves showing.  It's a shame
    she wasn't sold to someone whose primary interest was showing. 
    
    
    Nancy

    Nancy,
    
    Dr. Cindy Brown is an equine reproduction specialist at Rochester
    Equine Clinic.  She's written up in the Equine Journal.
    
    

    My QH mare (out on lease) foaled two days ago. A great bay filly!!
    The baby didn't go to nurse and mother ignored new creature.... the
    foal was brought to tufts for plasma and reintroduced to mom...all
    is fine now, but reading this particular note section got my nerves
    a rattlin.. Mom is very happy with her new addition now and has become
    a proud parent! Good luck with your foal and let us know how her 
    progress goes.
    
    Marianne
    

    I just thought I would give an update on the foal and mare.  The
    foal is still being bottle fed and drinking about four gallons of
    formula a day.  She is active, playful and doesn't seem to miss
    horsey company at all.  She talks to the other horses and the one
    next to her sticks her head over the wall and watches her quite
    a bit.  I won't know how the jaw is doing for a while yet.  I probably
    won't know the end results for about three months.  But her spirits
    and attitude are great and she is eating well.
    
    I have contacted two veterinarians at two different schools that
    are behaviorists and are doing research on things such as this.
    I hope they will be able to help shed some light on what happened.
    
    Thanks for all your help.
    
    Nancy

    I was in N.Y. this weekend visiting my son who lives and works on
    Blue Chip Farm. I told him about your problem. He has heard about
    this and said he remembers one mare on the farm that was like that.
    IF your mare is worth money and you want to continue to breed her
    you should have a nurse mare ready when the foal is born. More than
    likely your mare will always behave like this. No hormone shot will
    help. He told me what they did on the farm with several of the mares
    that rejected their foals but you would have to stand watch and
    it sounds like you don't have the time. Hope this helps. 

    
    RE:12  Precautions are definately necessary if you breed the mare
    again......  but I think that the statement that 'more than likely
    your mare will always behave like this is' is a little strong. I
    have known three mares who rejected their 1st foals - and went on
    to be wonderful mothers.  Statistically I don't know what the %'s
    are of reocurance, but if you really want to breed her again then
    it seems like precautions are the key for your success ...
    
    best of luck - holly
    

    re: .12 & .13
    
    The statement "more than likely" has been stated to me by both of
    the behaviorists I have contacted.  Currently Dr. Houpt at Cornell
    and Dr. Sue McDonnell at the Univ of Penn are both interested and
    have research funds available to study this problem.  Both Vets
    have conveyed to me an interest and I am working with them to see
    if we can understand what has happened.  We are not talking a simple
    rejection here.  This mare savaged her foal and both vets have told
    me this is very unusual.  Since she willingly injured her foal they
    do not feel she would accept another foal at another time.  
    
    I have decided that since this mare really and truly is talented
    for riding and the show ring that she is for sale as a show mare
    and not for breeding.  She is great with people and great to ride
    and very intelligent but motherhood is not her bag.  Cornell has
    asked me to donate the mare for research of this problem since they
    are seeing it more and more.  They have about 100 reported cases.
    I have asked for a written report from Cornell and they are also
    examining the tape I had taken which I think will help them
    considerably.  But just for your information I have no inclination
    to donote this mare to research.  I currently have her in training
    and she is doing super and will be shown in some shows this summer.
    I personally am very saddened that I cannot afford to keep a mare
    that I cannot utilize for breeding.  I can only afford to keep two
    horses.  Her trainer is really psyched with her and said she is
    a super halter mare and she can really move as well.  
    
    I thank you all for your well wishes and for those of you wishing
    further details from the behaviorists as I get them I would be glad
    to converse with you by vaxmail or by phone.
    
    Thanks again,
    
    Nancy

    Nancy,
    
    Have you considered haveing this mare spayed so this cannot happen
    again to another foal in later years with a different owner? It
    would also eliminate heat cycles that can interfere with performance.
    
    Just a thought,
    Sandy
    

    Nancy
    
    Call Lori Tampowski at Tufts, she is fantastic, she will be willing
    to talk to you on the phone and if she can not help you she will
    refer you to someone who can.  I highly recommend her.  She is very
    patient and thorough, give her a call it can't hurt.  Tell her Lori
    Betz from Upton recommended her.
    
    Good Luck and keep us updated on your findings.
    
    

    Thanks Lori for the information but I am right now having difficulty
    trying to talk to Dr. McDonnell at Univ of Penn and Dr. Houpt at
    Cornell.  It seems as though Dr. McDonnell is miffed that I am even
    talking to Cornell because as she puts it she thought it was her
    case and why should they spend any effort on this if I am working
    with Cornell too.  I am getting so angry.  All I am trying to do
    is get some answers and get more than one opinion.  Why they have
    to be so narrow minded and in my opinion unprofessional is beyond
    my comprehension.  Cornell had asked if I wished to donate the mare
    and when I told them no they seemed alittle less receptive.  I have
    sent the tape to them and gotten no response.  I think they seemed
    to feel that the only way to study this is for me to rebreed the
    mare and send her up to them to foal her.  Since I have the mare
    up for sale I am not in a position to rebreed her this year anyway.
    If I keep hitting a dead end though I will call Tufts and talk to
    someone over there.  
    
    The foal finally has her head brace off and her outlook is good.
    Hopefully she is coming home soon as my finances are severely wittling
    away.
    
    Nancy