Conference noted::equitation

    No your not doing anything wrong. Most for profit stables hate sweet
    feeds in the winter because they freeze. It cuts in to time and
    profits if you have to spent half an hour hacking a hundred pound
    bag of frozen sweet feed apart. It's for that very reason that I
    go to pellets in the winter. If however you promise to be the one
    to deal with the frozen feed I don't see why they should care.
                            Paul Buntrock

	I don't see a problem with supplementing a critter's feed... perhaps
	their concern is the type of supplement?  

	Personally, I don't feed my horse sweet feed during winter. It gives 
	him *LOTS* of energy which limited winter riding just can not use up!
	(makes for interesting times in the barn and on the trail...)  He does
	get it the rest of the year, but it never helped him to gain or keep 
	weight.  To keep his weight during the winter, he gets beet pulp with 
	his pellets, corn, and TNS.  (Ever try chipping frozen beet pulp??  
	Makes digging though sweet feed EASY!)  

	Btw, where I currently board, all the critters get corn during the 
	winter months.

		GOOD LUCK!
					-Caroline

    The last reply mentioned corn.  This is the best way to put weight
    on your horse and keep it on, but beware you don't overfeed.  As
    far as the sweetfeed your barn manager may not be so foolish.  It
    is not uncommon for a horse on sweetfeed with a reduced work load
    such as in the winter to become very unruley or even mean.  The
    increased protein provides a horse with increased energy and no
    way to work it out. You may actually be defeating the purpose of
    hoping to put weight on your horse, by making him more energetic
    unless you have a very regular excersise program his nervousness
    may result in weight loss. A little though will not hurt and does seem
    to look more tastey than just pellets.  As far as freezing goes,
    for my horse who does get sweet feeed all year I mix pellets into
    the sweetfeed when I dump it into the barrel.  On the coldest of
    winter nights it is not difficult to scoop (anywhere from a 50/50
    to a 25/75 mix, pellets/sweetfeed will do the trick)
    
    Karen

    Hi,
    
    I think the barn managers problem is that he/she thinks that they know
    best and don't think it is necessary to supplement your horses feed.
    
    I have had similar problems in the past. Basically Cody is your horse,
    you are paying the bills, you are supplying the supplement and the
    labor.  Therefore it is your right to feed your horse what you want
    and when. (Assuming of course that you use good judgement)
    I used to make my own bran mash and bring it to the barn
    and feed it to my horse, I also brought warm water for him.  It
    definitely raised a few eyebrows in my past boarding arrangement.
    Some people just don't think it is necessary to pamper our horses
    so.
    
                                       Wendy  

    It is up to you what you feed if you are doing the supplying and
    the labor.  However, for Cody's sake watch the energy level.  As
    far as weight goes we found the supplement Source to be the best
    for putting on and keeping weight on a horse.
    
    Good luck
    

    I wish to present a different point of view. As a self care horse
    owner I have had to learn the hard way about what and how much certain
    horses should be fed. A horse can be "killed by love". When I was
    a teenager with limited income and my own horse to feed I never
    overfed a horse. When I got older with better means I discovered
    sometimes more is not good. On easy keeping horses suppimenting
    with corn in the winter can founder them. I did it to a Tenn. Walker
    and a friend of mine did to an Appy one cold winter. Her horse
    recovered, mine developed heaves as a side effect of the medicine
    given for the founder. We got that under control and then arthritis
    sent in to her legs. My horse had to be put down. Your stable manager
    has the legal responsiblity for the health of your horse. By giving
    Cody extra just when you are there it makes it difficult to maintain
    a good diet. Horses cannot take sudden changes in feed so if you
    are going to add to his feed it must be done at every meal not just
    when you come to visit. If you really love your horse I would bury
    to hachet with the manager and try to work with him for the good
    of Cody. Or find a barn that will listen to your suggestions and
    explain why they do or don't agree.
    
    Sandy
    

    	I once had a well meaning, but uneducated boarder nearly
    kill a couple of the horses in our barn. This lady noticed.while
    I was at work, that there was no hay in the barn, (I was picking
    up a load on the way home that day). She proceded to run down to
    a local farm and bought a few bales of mouldy cow hay (hay's
    hay, right??). She then fed her horse all the horses this hay,
    and well as a half a bucket of dairy mix to each horse. I had the
    dairy mix for a couple of holstein calves that I was raising.
    	When I got home, two horses were down. The rest were more picky
    eaters, and since they weren't very hungry, had used the mouldy
    hay as bedding rather than eat it.
    	A vet visit and several hours of walking later, everything
    was more or less back to normal. I called the lady, and she said
    that since there wasn't any hay in the barn, she assumed that
    they hadn't been fed. I explained that they had, and invited her
    to come down and see the load I'd brought in.
    	The moral is that, unless you are very knowledgeable, be careful
    about starting your own feeding program. I'm not suggesting that
    you shouldn'tfeed the extra sweet feed, but only that the stable
    manager may really have a good plan. It would be a good idea to
    talk it over with the manager and get some input as to why the
    animals are fed as they are. There may be some value there. I know
    that I've learned a lot from old timers . 
    	As Davey Crocket said "Be SURE you're right,then go ahead"
    
    		George
    

      Thank you all for your comments.  The manager feeds all the horses
    the same quantities without respect to size, weight, or the fact
    that some are still getting to pasture and others are not.  This
    is the primary reason I've been feeding Cody a little more.  She
    is the largest horse in the stable and was surviving on hay and
    oats only.  She was gradually taken off biotin last month, and I
    just want to ensure her diet is sufficient.  I only feed her the
    sweet feed 3 times a week and only about 2 cups when I do.  The
    stable manager has no true concern for my animal because she
    doesn't like her and hasn't since I brought her in.  She dislikes
    Appaloosa's, and mares, and cody is both.  The day I unloaded her
    off the trailer she told another boarder Cody was the ugliest 
    horse she had seen in some time.  Also she said she was to slow
    (and just a plodder) to have been a barrel racing champion a few
    years ago. (Then I showed her the papers and ribbons her ex
    owner gave me!)  We had a fun show and Cody won all the "speed"
    events.  The manager and I may never agree on anything!
    
    Rick_sorry_for_getting_off_topic_thanks_for_your_indulgence

    Would it be possible for you to move your horse?  If the horse
    requires extra feed because of size or whatever, the manager
    should take this into account and just give it to the horse.
    Take it from one who knows, I've had some pretty ugly standard-
    breds off the track, and have done very well in competition 
    with them, and in my opinion who cares what the horse looks
    like as long as it can get the job done!  Good luck!

re:>.  The day I unloaded her
>    off the trailer she told another boarder Cody was the ugliest 
>    horse she had seen in some time.  Also she said she was to slow
>    (and just a plodder) to have been a barrel racing champion a few
>    years ago. (Then I showed her the papers and ribbons her ex
>    owner gave me!)  We had a fun show and Cody won all the "speed"
>    events.  The manager and I may never agree on anything!

	Oh RICK!  

	This sounds SOOO FAMILIER!!  The barn manager at a barn I boarded at
	commented that they couldn't see how my TB ever raced as his stride
	was so short!  He happened to have earned in excess of $40K while
	on the track... 

	Perhaps you should accept the fact that this is one person who sounds
	quite bias and look for another barn to board at.  From experience,
	I know that moving to a differenct barn was the best thing for "us"!


				-Caroline

      The barn I board at is within walking distance of my home and
    the convenience was a real factor in buying Cody.  I may buy 5
    acres with a stable on it that is 5 miles from my home in Jan.
    This of course, causes me distress because I don't know if I
    have the time to properly care for horses.  My in-laws bought
    2 horses right after I did and they board at the same stable
    I do.  It's all convenient, and the other boarders are very nice.

      My family is responsible for 3 of the 15 horses in the stable,
    and I would think the management would enjoy the income they get
    from us.  

    Rick_again_off_topic

    	Rick, I know how you felt when you heard the comment. We have
    four Appaloosas, two mares a gelding and a stud colt. Some folks
    have made very unkind remarks about some of them just because they
    don't like the breed in general.
    	One suggestion,however, you'd be better off to feed the sweet
    feed to Cody every day at or near feeding time.
    
    	Good luck,
    		George
    

    re .2
    
    I just read articles in a few books concerning feeding(nice Xmas
    presents) and they all said corn could cause impaction and colic
    if too much was given (like a regular feed).  

    Here's a thought:  maybe feeding Cody causes the other horses to
    get upset!
    
    I had looked into boarding at a barn that had offered self-care.
     The owner said she decided not to do that anymore, because boarders
    would feed their horses at different times.  The ones not being
    fed, next to the ones that were, got very upset.
    
    Have you talked to your barn manager about how you feel?  They're
    not mind readers, either.  (I mention this because I had a problem
    with one of my boarders, a long-time friend.  He just assumed things
    and then would do dumb things like not give the horses water if
    the hose was left attached to the hydrant and froze.  He wouldn't
    carry water to the tub (about 20 feet away) and he wouldn't tell
    us about it, either.  We finally had to talk to him to find out
    why he seemed upset with us.)
    
    I agree with an earlier reply that suggests that if you're going
    to feed Cody, do it more regularly.  Also, have you talked to your
    vet about the amount of feed Cody needs?  His answer should help
    in your discussion with the farm manager.
    
    Good luck,
    Merrie

    This subject is one which can be explosive when dealing with boarders
    and stable owners.  (Note that even Kathie and I don't always agree
    here)  On one hand I agree that you should be able to do what you
    want with your own horse, but as a stable owner you have a
    responsibility to all of the owners to maintain a proper environment.
    I have solved our problem by not boarding outside horses (we have
    made some exceptions and will continue to do so).  Put mildly, you
    can make better money from the credit union based on the same capital
    investment.  Just so you can see that its not a bed of roses for
    the stable owner, here are some reasons why it could be a problem
    to feed your horse from their point of view:
    
    -  If there are many horses in the barn and you only feed one the
    others will be frustrated and will kick, weave, crib, chew, and
    otherwise destroy the building little by little.
    
    -  The stable owner is responsible for the good health of the horse
    when they are being paid full board.  Most `reputable' stable managers
    will feed each horse a ration which maintains the proper body weight
    and condition.  (Even if yours doesn't do this, they should)  This
    is near impossible if someone else keeps changing the amount and type
    of feed.                           
    
    -  If the horse founders because of improper diet, you will sue
    the stable owner, not yourself.  This fact in itself raises a certain
    level of paranoia in stable managers.
    
    -  Feeding any horse randomly is poor stable management and can
    be dangerous depending on the amount fed.  (sounds like you aren't
    feeding enough to cause this but some people do).
    
    So there could be some valid reasons here that can sometimes get
    fixed by talking the situation out.  Then again...
    
    
    By the way, when you talked about sweet feed, you mentioned it as
    if it were a specific feed especially in protien content.  Sweet
    feed is only grain with molasses in it.  It can range from 10% to
    16% crude protien just as pellets can go from 10% to 48%!  The bottom
    line is that its the ingredients that are important, not the style
    of feed.  Beware of sweet feed expressly made for cattle since it
    can be mildly toxic to some horses.  I know lots of people who feed
    Course 14 (a cattle feed from UCF), but I have seen lots of reports
    on problems with cattle feed (not necessarily with Course 14).
    

      The feed is TYCO horse and is 13% protein.  If Cody was still
    getting to pasture I wouldn't give her anything.  My boarding
    contract calls for some(open to interpretation) corn to be fed
    over the winter.  No corn has been given to any of the horses
    yet(seems like winter to me).  Also I gave the horses about 4
    pads of hay while in the ring a few days ago and the manager
    stormed out telling me not to do that.  Get this reason..."We
    don't want to have to buy anymore hay this year!"  Now, understand
    I don't care if they pinch pennies, but if it is necessary I would
    pay another 10 bucks a month so they could buy hay!  I am still
    supplementing her feed and will continue to do so.  I am now getting
    feed to her about 5 times a week during one of the daily feedings.
    We are still riding all three horses about 3 times a week, and all
    are looking better with the better feed.  Just as a sidebar(I know,
    stay on topic).  Our racking horse has left most of his mane on
    the riding ring fence sticking his head through looking for grass.
    The manager's only comment was about how it was sticking out of
    the boards in the fence! (she should be bright enough to realize
    it's time to move the horse!).  Brilliant lady.  The owner of the
    barn is an old childhood friend of mine, but doesn't know enough
    about horses to involve.  He buys what she tells him for feed.
    (Also his girlfriend by the way)

    Rick,
    If I recall you are the only other noter from PA that I have see
    in this note. Due to the drought this summer hay is very difficult
    to obtain in PA. Money is not the issue. I am a self care owner
    near Pittsburgh and all of my usual suppliers could not sell me
    hay this year. I went out last June and bought as much as I could
    fit in the hayloft. But I had to start feeding it June instead of
    Sept. By not being generous I can make it to the next cutting season.
    I am supplimenting my horses with alfalfa pellets to make up the
    difference. This may be part of the reason the barn manager seems
    so unreasonable. 
    
    Sandy
    

    What is the main purpose of feeding garlic?  I fed Cloud garlic all 
    through the summer, basically to keep the flies off.....It worked.  But 
    is there any other reasons for feeding garlic, her coat is very shiny 
    at the moment, but I think that is due to the cider vinegar and cod 
    liver oil I give her for her stiffness.
    
    Lynda
     

    
    Garlic has been touted as being a digestive aid for humans....