Conference noted::equitation

    I have a friend with a 30 yr old jumper that has a little bit of
    trouble with arthritis. Her vet recommends bute for the bad days
    and regular light exercise (ridden at a walk 4 to 5 times a week
    for 2 to 3 miles). This has worked very well for her horse, keeps
    him from getting too stiff. The problem with long term use of bute
    is it can cause somach upset and pain. This has not been a problem
    with her horse as he only needs it once or twice a month. Her horse
    is also turned out as much as possible.
    
    Sandy
    

My older horse has needed bute also on some bad days.  I try to wean him
off the bute onto aspirin as soon as possible.  Then I try going back
to using nothing at all.   I've found the best remedy is regular, light 
exercise.   I've also discovered that turning out an older horse with
a youthful friend will encourage more self exercise.   

-Melinda

    My vet says that yucca works great.  One of her clients had 4 or
    5 old horses that had arthritis. Someone suggested that they try
    the yucca conditioner, my vet told me if she did not see the results
    herself she would not have believed the story.  She said that the
    horses where no longer stiff and that they were packed full of energy.
    
    Mary Ann

    WHat is the yucca treatment.  Does it just work for arthritis, or
    can one use it for another ailment?
    
    
    Michele

    My horse had lost quite a bit of weight last winter. I moved her
    to a new barn in march and started her on the yucca conditioner.
    The name of the conditioner is just yucca conditioner.  She put
    back on the weight and her coat had a nice shine to it.  I did not
    continue with the conditioner once she was back to her old self,
    I'm the type that beleive that if they are fed a well balenced diet
    that they do not need extra conditioner.
    
    Since we are just starting winter down in North Carolina I am going
    to buy more yucca and start her back on the conditioner.  With the
    cold weather she seems to be a little stiff in the mornings so I'm
    hoping the the yucca will relieve the problem.  I'll let you know
    if it helps
    
    Mary Ann

    Where can yucca be purchased?  Does anyone know of any possible
    side effects?  I'm thinking about it for my 20+ year old QH mare.
    
    She doesn't get ridden but once every few months.  So she's not
    in what you'd call "shape".  But I do take her for a lot of walks.
    She also was very thin going into this winter.  But thanks to a very
    observant (read: more experienced) friend I have increased her feed
    to what my vet recommended.  
    
    I was wondering if the yucca would help keep that weight on as well 
    as ease the stiffness in her hind legs (usually noticiable on very 
    cold days). 

    I bought the conditioner at a feed store, it's name is just yucca
    conditioner.  I did not have any side effects but I only used it
    for 3 months.

    	Yucca is a dry land plains plant also known as soapweed.
    Some animals such as antelope eat it naturally. I doubt if there
    are any sideaffects.
    
    	George
    

    Just for your information I saw a Yucca supplement at the Farmer's
    Exchange in Leominster, MA.  It was an Equicare product.
    
                                   Wendy  

     Also, FYI, I saw Yucca Pellets made by Horse Health Products.
     in the Omaha Vaccine catalog.  A 10 Lb tub was $12.95.

    if you are in concord nh.
     area yucca is 9.** for 10 lbs..
    also cher thompson (that owns victory pass tack shop)
    she suggested using a supplement called formula four,
    it has some yucca in it and some other natural ingredients..
    
    as far as yucca for arthritis?? depends how bad it is.. and how
    long it was goin on before detected... also the type of arthritis.
    some horses work out of it.
    some dont.. it takes about 30 minutes to get one warmed up enuff
    to go halfway sound.
    
    my question is on arthristis , has anyone used cold lazer or
    cortisone or haluonic acid (sp?) in the joint? my question is if
    you work them out of it (warmed up for a half hour) and used cortisone
    what does it do to the joint? does it break down, can they put in
    an artifical joint??
    
    	wendy o'
    

    After much poking and prodding of my mare, we (vet, blacksmith and
    myself) are reasonably sure she has arthritis.  We tried hyluronic
    acid and it did not work for my mare for more than 3 weeks. 
    It takes about a week to lubricate the joint and one week to wear off.
    It will help in about 70% per cent of cases, especially in the hocks and for
    some reason stands a greater chance in older horses, as their body/legs
    etc are established and works best on arthritis due to aging of joints
    rather than hereditary/conformation defaults.    
    
    I have never heard of using aloe. 
    
    Right now, she is shoeless in a 5 acre field and getting supplements
    in the form of MSM.  This is a food additive, but it is a derivative
    of DMSO, it is a form of "free" sulphur, while the vet says it can't
    hurt, the blacksmith says it works for him and I have seen it do
    wonders for a very hefty golden lab who had chronic arthritis and
    was on 2 oz of Bute/day.  She walks fine (still hasn't lost weight),
    but is not on bute at all.
    
    Also a friend who is a trotting trainer says it works great, in
    the appropriate cases.  
    
    See if MSM is available in the US.  It comes from Japan apparently,
    and costs $14.00 Canadian for a 2Kg tub, but in the east they pay
    (apparently) three times as much. (I don't know why)
    
    Anyway my 2 cents
    

    re.MSM..
    
    has anyone tried to get it in the states??
    As far as a Yucca I quit doing Yucca because i thought it was working 
    but when it comes down to it, it didnt get her pasture sound.
    I had 2 set of xrays done and because of the knee truama (pulled
    lateral muscle that encases the knee itself was torn, and we didnt know
    it. (could have been from a fall in the pasture or from her reining 
    3 years ago, just dont know) anyway arthritis has set into the joint
    and over the past year has been fusing itself (mother nature takes
    over) I have had the best vets in the country (cornell ,
    tufts,rochester all said the same, nothing for arthritis (cure)
    we thougth knee replacement was possible but doesnt look like 
    vet medicine has really advanced that far concerning my mares knee.
    Anyway hur**** acid like someone said here is only temporary and i
    dont think at this point it would be humane. another possibbility would
    be fusing the joint (whats she doing her self), and another would be to
    inject cortisone (steroids  [sp?]) into the joint, however you might
    then get calium deposits and then you have more particles grinding in
    the joint and wearing it down quicker. 
    
    she was never on bute but i decide to give her some. most start
    out (what.... )4 bute for 2-3 days and then taper? anyway i started her
    on a bute a day (so many people have said no bute becasue of the
    toxcity levels and gasteric/ulser conditions) anyway i have talked to 
    enought vets that a bute a day will no cause harm that some say will.
    anyway just the bute alonme they say she is pasture sound and isnt
    even off at a walk.. (i tend to disagree but then i want her sound
    sound :^}) anyway i was wondering if anyone in or out of the net
    has used ADEQUAN??? it is a steriod and can be given in the joint 
    (which i dont want to do) but also musclular [i have convinced my vet 
    that i can inject it myself] the side effects are: it goes to the rest
    of the bone thorugh the body and sort of lubricates the joints 
    (i can live with that! ) anyway any input would be appreciated.
    as far as riding i would like to caution some poeple on an arthritis,
    be careful although my mare has never went down (even she was
    barrelracing when she had this i guess, i dont know how she ever did
    it..)with me on her back , please be careful and dont have a horse fall
    on you! I never thought of that until a vet mentioned it.He also
    mentioned (cause i have asked all the vets that looked at her about
    breeding. . . cuase if i cant show her cuase of soundness i didnt think 
    she could carry all that weight of being bred) its in the front so i'm 
    safe he said in the back he wouldnt advise it..
    
    
    well enough of rambling good luck to everyone that tries to get the
    horses more comfortable .. i hope they find a cure, i would love to see
    one!  
    
    anyone see the article in the enquirer i think about poeple using
    WD40 for arthritis?? I was almost tempted, I guess dont knock it until
    you tried it huh??;^}
    
    
    		wendy o'
    
    

    I went lookin' thru old issues of a racing magazine for a reference
    to acid which I know is there but can't find.  (It would also tell me
    how to spell it.)

    Anyway, I thought:
        Bute is an anti-inflamatory.
        Cortizone (sp) must be similar (but different?)
        Acid replaces fluid (or tissue) in, if you will a dry joint.

    I don't understand the 'humane' statement.
        ACID IS NOT AN 'ACID', IT IS A LUBRICANT !  The name must
        come from chemistry, something like 'amino-acid' (???)

    Considering the millions of people with arthritis, if there was a cure
    we would know about it.

    We used to have a racehorse that needed acid and the results are
    incredible.  8 or so years ago it cost $50.00 to $100.00 PER INJECTION.

    A bit expensive for a retired pet but believe a horse could participate
    in any form of competition with it.  In our case an injection would
    last 2 months.

    I am putting this in because I think giving pain killers does not
    stop the joint from degenerating.

    If she was my horse I would try an acid injection (they inject it
    right into the joint).  You might be amazed.  If the injection lasts
    3 months then give her one every 2 so it does not wear out.

    Good luck,

    
    
    as far as money thats not an issue. I guess the issue I have is..
    just how humane is it to do.. sure shes only 12, however it takes a
    couple of weeks to not be sore (from the shots) and then the vet said 
    it was only last for 2-3 at the most..
    
    h_acid i beleive is simialar but the steriod.(adequan)
     it still lubricants that joint as far a h_acid..not degenerating the
    joint. I believe it still does.. well as far as the info I have been
    getting..
    
    How bad was that race horse??
    
    	wendy o'
    

    Hydroponic (sp?) acid, when injected into a joint should last up to
    3 months or so if its done correctly.  I've seen a few horses have
    this done and it didn't seem to make them overly sore, they were right
    back in training in a few days.  Cortizone is used a lot of times
    before the acid is to make sure that it is that particular joint that
    is causing the pain, but cortizone only lasts a couple or three weeks.
    The cost for injecting knees with acid is $125/each.  

    I was talking to my old trainer the other day and they said they did
    the hock joint and it lasted 3-4 weeks at the *most.. several people
    on the showring have told me that also..
    
    I dont want to use cortisone, neither does the vet becuase he doesnt
    want the particles it break off and wear the joint more..
    
    anyway, I take it noone has used adequan..??
    i guess I will be the first to try it and i will let you know
    how it works I guess..
    
    	wendy o'
    
    

    
    	I have used Yucca for the past 2 years on my old guy.  He has
    	arthritis in both stifle joints.  Winters in New Hampshire were
    	bad on him.  March was his worse month with the cold winds and
    	freezing rain.  I would end up buting him for a few weeks to get
    	over this time of the year.
    
    	I read about Yucca from this notes file.  I tried it and the 
    	following winter I did not even have to bute him at all.  I am not
    	saying he is not stiff early in the morning - but he does not
    	limp at all.  My opinion is that it does help and I have been using
    	it for 3 years now.  He is 35 and looking terrific.
    
    	We are in Arizona now and I am continuing the Yucca and looking
    	forward to the milder winters.
    
    	Susan

    has anyone got any info on what they call polyflex?? its added to
    serile water.. is that a generic audequan???
    
    anyone ever try bee sting theraphy????
    
    
    right now, we started using selium and vit e , no difference, the
    other people say they notice in their horse, but I see no change..
    anyway I heard that feeding high volume of this stuff was helping
    the horses on the track but have no idea what the volume would do to
    them... has anyone heard this???
    
    
    

    
    
    Selineum and Vitamin E are generally used to help prevent tying up
    (azoturia) and sore muscles.  You have to feed them together as they
    cannot be metabolized if feed seperatly.  Selineum is toxic if fed in
    excessive amounts and can be fatal.  
    
    Bee pollen is feed to horses for a variety of reasons.  It is thought
    to help a horse get more out of his feed and to improve a horses' general
    condition.  I have never fed it, but some people swear by it. 
    
    Adequan is a steroid that is normally injected into a horses joint as a 
    lubricant to help the joints flex more easily.  I think you have to
    mix it in a syringe with sterile water and then it is injected  into
    the joint capsule.  It is mostly used with race horses and I think it
    is banned for use by AHSA but am not sure on this point.   The best
    person to ask about this would be your vet.
    
    I haven't heard of polyflex being used as a medication.  I have heard
    of a polyflex being used as a bonding agent in the repair of hooves
    with cracks and big chuncks missing.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Pat

    thanks... 
    the bee theraphy..is stinging or injecting the horse in the arthritic
    area.. they use this for people.. but somehow i', convinced that
    my mare would pound me into the groud if i did that :^}
    
    anyway polyflex was i thought was adequan .. similar..
    (thanks i'll check all this out)
    
    espec. the selineum..
    
    

    
    
    Do you mean acupuncture instead of bee sting?
    
    Pat

    re.last 
    
    nope bee sting.......
    
    I dunno, sounds funny..but, if i remeber right a chiropacter is putting
    it on.. or has something to do with it......

My veterinarian happened to mention that adequan, a drug used to help
treat arthritis in horses is now being used for humans in Europe.  
Does anyone have any more info on this?  If so, does the human drug go 
by the name of adequan?

Thanks,

Melinda