| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 741.1 | There are some pleasant ones few and far between! | FIDERE::NAMOGLU | Sheryl Namoglu : VMS Development | Wed Oct 05 1988 12:14 | 11 |
|
I had a pleasant surprise the other night. I was riding down a
dirt road which is very lightly travelled. It was nearing dusk.
A truck headed down the road towards me. My horse is good with
cars and such so I didn't worry. Well the truck Stopped, Turned
off the engine, AND turned off his lights and waited for me to
pass! In all the times I have ridden on road for the last 10 years,
this is the FIRST time I have ever seen anyone turn off the car
for a horse. I was quite impressed.
|
| 741.2 | TWO CAN PLAY THAT GAME OF LIFE | MED::D_SMITH | | Wed Oct 05 1988 12:58 | 27 |
|
I like the up-the-center-idea. I've used it to. Like parking a
truck in the road, "TRAFFIC STOPS". I'm one of the lucky ones to
who has a road-safe-horse. It's not the traffic that scares him.
It's various things on the side of the road that sends your animal
to an 8' jump into the on-coming traffic. Like plastic bags blowing
out of the woods, birds ripping out of the brush, animals in leave
piles looking for food. Thoughs are the scary times!
I've been riding with a crop after a little accident a few weeks
ago, where I wanted to go one way, old Jasper went his own way...not
anymore.
If the driver appears as though he is just going scream by,
I found that waving the crop at the on-coming traffic usually sends
them into the other lane, or stops them. If they still persist on
driving three inches from me, I either kick the side of their window
or smash the roof with the crop. Then, and only then, they stop of
which I will unload everything going through my mind at the time,
and at top DB levels. This is such a shock to them that they will
think twice before ever trying that action again (aspecially with me).
Don't be afraid that they will come at you. Most people are scared
of such a large peice of flesh walking towards them. Even try backing
towards them if you like to see one in a "state of shock".
It's your life they're taking into their hands. If they don't care,
then neither do I.
|
| 741.3 | Please be careful!!!!! | CNTROL::STOOKER | | Wed Oct 05 1988 14:05 | 28 |
| Note #373 is about horses and the law. My biggest fear with riding
my horse on the road was that if for some reason I was thrown and
the horse runs out in front of a car and gets killed, I would be
the one liable for the damage to the car because the horse was
"uncontrolled" even though it was the inconsiderate drivers fault
that I was thrown to begin with. I would no longer have a horse
but have to pay for the damage to the car.
Even though it may sound like a good idea to ride your horse down
the middle of the road, I believe that a horse is considered a
pedestrian which means that you should ride your horse facing the
traffic not with the traffic. ( please correct me if I am wrong
about this ) If you were to ride down the middle of the road and
happen to be in an accident (because of an inconsiderate driver)
wouldn't you legally be at fault because you were obstructing traffic?
This is just a question for my own future reference? It is a shame
that some people can not be more considerate, but they probably
feel that the roads are for cars, not horses. Not that this excuses
their behavior, but it is something to be aware of. Also, a lot of
people may not be aware (or could care less) of the need for being
considerate around riders.
Anyway, besides the legalities of who is right or wrong or who is liable,
the key here is SAFETY for the horse and rider. In my case, I
just avoided roads as much as possible, because I knew my mare was
unreliable around vehicles. If didn't always make for much fun
riding because the areas that you can ride in are limited, but still
safety is still the key thing. A dead horse or rider does not make
the roads any safer.
|
| 741.4 | right side of street? | GEMVAX::FISHER | | Wed Oct 05 1988 16:30 | 18 |
| Interesting comment -- I always thought the law read that the horse
was supposed to be ridden on the right, with the traffic.
Does it vary from state to state?
I've met all kinds of drivers -- good and bad. I happen to have
one of those horses that thinks that if it moves, it's out
to get him. For awhile there I figured there was a poster
out with our picture on it, cause I've seen drivers turn
around to avoid us. Seriously, I have met both good and bad
with no consistency within a given area. I was out with a friend
once and thankfully she was in the rear as the driver of the
car let her child try to pull the horses tail from the window!!
Yes, her horse was sane, the kid missed the tail, but the driver
got to face me who quickly hopped off to spare no words about
the lack of any intelligence on "mommy's part". The woman tried
to leave, but was blocked by me and my 16'2" overweight "pony" who
greeted her as he does all strangers -- teeth barred. Don't think
that woman ever tried that again.
|
| 741.5 | ONE BIG ACCIDENT... | MILVAX::NICKERSON | | Wed Oct 05 1988 17:39 | 9 |
| BE CAREFUL...I had one of those "wonderful" drivers hit my horse,
breaking his hind leg with the result that he was put down.
I just don't move out of their way any more. Whether I am right
or wrong I ride in the middle.
This driver hit us so hard that he threw horse and rider over the
car...then tried to sue me for damages to his car. Aren't people
wonderful.
|
| 741.6 | caution on the roads... | TRACTR::CONSTR | | Wed Oct 05 1988 17:51 | 18 |
| I am almost sure you should ride on the right of the road.
I ride on roads almost daily to get to the trails, and find
that most drivers are excellent. Some don't slow down, but
I have a 100% bomb-proof mare who ignores everything, including
motorcycles, dump trucks, and tractor-trailers. One time, though,
I was riding with a friend down Rte 114 in Andover, MA when 2
guys pulled up along beside us and the passenger leaned out the
window and grabbed my friends reins! Her horse, being street-smart
too, just stopped dead in his tracks while the guy started to get
out the car. It all happened very quickly. My friend started yelling,
and wanting to do SOMETHING, I was able to get my own horse to go
headlong into the guy at a canter! He panicked at a ton of fast-movig
flesh coming at him, jumped back in the car, and they took off,
never to be seen again. It was a pretty scary experience, and makes
me think twice before I go out alone without telling someone where
I am and how long I expect to be gone...
|
| 741.7 | Please! Travel with the traffic! | EQUINE::DANI | | Thu Oct 06 1988 09:28 | 53 |
|
You do not want to ride against the traffic! It's just as wrong as
bicycling against the traffic. It is more dangerous and harder for
the driver to avoid you.
Riding with the traffic buys you increased safety and chance of
survival in that
- your horse will spook forward or (hopefully off the road to the
right) A horse that is frightened of something coming *at* him
head-on will want to turn and run or dodge to the left *or*
right.
- seeing on coming traffic in infinitely more likey to frighten a
horse than having it come from the rear. They think this thing is
coming at them!
- *if* you are out of control dashing down the road and a car is
coming toward you, the place to be is *NOT* on the same side as the car
but on the right where the traffic moving the same way would be.
Just think if two moving objects are going to collide, chances of
survival are better if the two objects are moving the same direction,
not heading *at* each other. In an accident between horse/rider and
car the horse certainly has the least chance of survival but when
both are moving the same direction, the rider stands a better chance
of being able to ride another day.
(some of these are also the logic behind bicycling *with* the traffic)
- a final point. The horse/rider and horse/carriage combinations are
potential slow moving traffic that may obstruct the road and slow
traffic. Oversized loads etc fall into the same category and they
don't drive on the wrong side of the road, nor does "other farm
equipment".
It scares me as a driver that people would ride facing traffic. I
don't want to hit any critters or riders and coming head on is not
the way to avoid it. As a rider it would be harder to keep control of
a sometimes unpredictable animal. I like to cut down the options.
My last comment then I'll get to work :-)
I didn't address the riding in the middle of the road issue, because
I too feel that it is sometimes the safest place, because people are
more likely to slow down. Above I am refering to the more busy roads
that sometimes are encountered on horse back.
Dani
-
|
| 741.8 | someone should tell them | CHEFS::SEDGWICKH | plastic sheep in boots hate rain | Thu Oct 06 1988 12:40 | 24 |
| This subject must be the nightmare of any rider.
I find that all lorry drivers either slow right down or stop, and
if the horse still plays up (as does mine) then they will switch
off there engines. I have never come across an arogant lorry driver.
How ever if a car insists on travelling at 90 miles an hour I shall
wave them down, sometimes they will slow down but if they don't
make any effort them I head for them on there side of the road.
This always worked, Mind you I do know my horse well, and if I
tell him to jump right he will. Driver don't seem to know the rights
of horse and rider and if horse hits there car, then they are stuffed.
It isn't made public to anyone, Your told when your learning what
to look out for whilst on a country road. But so many people take
it with a pinch of salt. It should be printed in newspapers or
enclosed on a leaflet when your road tax application form comes
through. The drivers just don't understand why a horse has right
of way and millions more don't even know this at all.
Thats all I am going to say, but I'm glad someone brought this topic
up.
Helena
|
| 741.9 | | MED::D_SMITH | | Fri Oct 07 1988 08:48 | 18 |
|
Just my opinion, I disagree with RE:7.
I think it's safer if the animal can see what's coming in front
of him rather than not knowing what's sneeking up behind him.
I have tried either side and found my horses is less spooked
when traffic is in front of him, where he can keep his eyes on it.
Try it in the paddock and tell me which one scares him the most!
Also for those jerks who refuse to give an inch with their
tin-can-bombers, I prefer seeing well in advance so I have time
to react. There's no scare like the scare you get when the driver
in back of you blows his horn because he can't pass you do to on-coming
traffic. I prefer against and refuse to be convinced otherwize.
Just my opinion...
|
| 741.10 | | CHEFS::GOUGH | | Mon Oct 10 1988 07:19 | 15 |
| Helena,
I think you're right about lorry drivers. Do you find that BMW
drivers never slow down??!
I only ride on country lanes, and have a horse who's mainly good
in traffic, but I still don't like riding on the road. On narrow
country lanes, I too ride in the middle. It may or may not be the
legal way to do it, but it's much safer. Otherwise a lot of drivers
will just try to squeeze past.
Quite a few drivers seem to be trying to get a horse to sit on their
bonnet.
Helen.
|
| 741.11 | Time to go to Court | DELNI::L_MCCORMACK | | Tue Oct 11 1988 12:35 | 71 |
|
Well... to continue the saga.
We went out riding again on Sunday and Monday on our quiet narrow
road. On Sunday we were able to flag everyone down to a stop so
that my filly could walk by the cars. She was beginning to get
used to the idea so that we didn't have to stop the cars anymore,
just slow them down. We stopped and slowed the cars down by
having someone walk along with us and step out into the road to
stop the cars.
Yesterday, we all rode and ran into the same problem again. A
van came bombing down the hill, well over the speed limit, and
ignored our shouts and hands up to slow down and stop. My filly
got frightened, reared up, and backed into the middle of the road.
The van came to a stop THEN when my filly's rearend was aimed at
his frontend and almost touching.
We got the plate number of the van and a few more along the way
of speeding cars that did not slow down or stop when signaled to.
JUST A NOTE- none of the drivers were young kids that are usually
looked upon as being inconsiderate. Most of the drivers were
35-45 male and female. This surprized me. The young kids with
the loud cars and motorcycles always stop.
On the way home after being assaulted by about six more cars
my filly and I were walking over a narrow bridge with no railings
on either side of the road. There is an eight foot drop off the
bridge on either side with a brook and large boulders down below.
A white van came bombing down the road doing about 45 (in a 25
mph area). We were stuck on the bridge with the van speeding at
us with no intention of slowing down. I had my hand up to stop
but the driver did not. My filly almost dived off the bridge
until she saw the drop then shot out into the middle of the bridge
in front of the oncoming van. The guy hit his brakes but they
must have been faulty because they squeeled a lot but didn't seem
to be slowing the van down at all. He left 50ft of rubber on the
road before he stopped a foot from us. He didn't even stick around
to ask if we were alright, just edged past and kept going.
My friend and I got the license plate and I was bound and determined
to report this one. A town cop came out and I thought he was
rather off-hand about the matter. He said the guy could be cited
for failing to yield to a pedestrian and given a 35.00 fine but
that I would have to show up in court. I got the feeling that he
was discouraging me from following through on this which made me
all the more determined to nail the guy.
The officer did go up to look at the skid mark and depending on
if the plate is traceable, I will most likely be following this
up in court. Here are a couple of questions:
1. This driver was also driving to endanger. Isn't there a
penalty for this? Or do I have to be hit or killed before
someone is considered driving to endanger.
2. What about speeding? The van left a new and vivid skidmark
that should be able to give some idea of how fast he was
going?
I really don't think a $35.00 fine is appropriate to prevent this
guy from driving to endanger, speeding, or failing to stop again.
However, I do think a two or three hundred dollar ticket and maybe
possibleloss of his license for a couple of months might help.
Any comments on how to convince the judge of this since I'm not
going to get much help from the police?
Linda
|
| 741.12 | | CSC32::M_HOEPNER | | Tue Oct 11 1988 13:15 | 10 |
|
Does this have to be handled by city police or is this county?
I would be real temped to talk to the DA's office. I wouldn't take
just one policeman's word. Find out what your rights are!
In addition, even if it was just a small fine, I would still go
after the van driver(s). In small town areas, this stuff gets printed
in the paper. This might help spread the word...
Mary Jo
|
| 741.13 | | MEIS::SCRAGGS | | Tue Oct 11 1988 14:39 | 40 |
|
I would go after him!! Even if it is a $35 fine, a day in court
is going to nag at him to boot. If you file a complaint and want
it followed thru, you may not be called to the hearing. In fact,
I'd almost doubt it, I guess it would depend on how they handled
it though. When I was going to a horseshow a few years ago, friends
of mine were hauling for me. I was following the trailer in my
truck with a student who's horse was also in the trailer. We were
driving up a long hill, with excellent visibility all around, however
the road did take a slight angle. There was a van coming down at
normal speed (I believe the limit was 35). I looked in my rearview
mirror and saw a small orange datsun coming up behind me at an
incredible speed, I put my flashers on (now mind you this idiot
could see us from at least a 1/4 mile or more back) to signal that
we were not moving very fast... just as the van came parallel to
the trailer this orange car passes me now we are all three abreast
in a two lane backroad.. I swerved to the side, the person handling
the trailer was great and I praised him the whole day and for quite
some time afterwards on his handling of the situation, the van
drove off the road and into a stone wall. Well, being the hothead
I am when it comes to my horse, I chased this idiot a mile passed
him stopped my truck in the middle of the road, made him stop....
this is obviously not what you want to do, but I was in a fit of
insanity after this mess.....screamed at him for about 10 mins,
took his license plate and drove to the police station. The driver
of the van luckily was an ex police officer of that town, and knew
exactly what I was going to do. Without realizing it, he had been
behind me the hole way, when I got to the police station, he asked
if we were ok and took me into the chief. The person was a worker
at a local garage, and was using a customers car that was in for
repairs. Without having to go to court the kid was arrested and
charged with speeding, endagered/reckless driving and a couple other
small offences, he had to go to court, lost his license for 90
days and paid $350 in fines. I was happy! I hope it taught him
a lesson. (sorry if this was rambling....I think I even put this
in here somewhere else...)
GO for it Linda! Teach 'em a lesson!
Marianne
|
| 741.14 | | DELNI::L_MCCORMACK | | Tue Oct 11 1988 15:02 | 24 |
|
Hi Marianne,
Glad it worked out in your case. It sounds from what your saying
as if the officer may have thrown in the part about me appearing
in court to scare me off figuring I wouldn't want to confront this
guy and take the time off from work etc.
Of course I'm a little queasy about it since I don't know if this
person could live on my road somewhere. Even if he doesn't, it
wouldn't be hard for him to figure out where I live and who I am
since I am the only one on the road with horses. I worry about
some nut trying to get even with me but I guess if you live like
that (if everyone thought like that), nobody would ever be taken
to court.
How can I keep tabs on what is happening if I am not summoned to
court? How will I know if this guy has been cited and told to
appear in court, and when?
Linda
|
| 741.15 | They're great since they got guns~ | CNTROL::MCKEON | | Tue Oct 11 1988 15:09 | 11 |
|
In regards to Linda's note (.11), try calling the Registry of
Motor Vehicles and explain what happened and ask about possible
action. Registry inspectors THRIVE on stuff like this (and
their jurisdiction extends to the state border). If they know
that the locals were less than enthusiastic, that might give
them more incentive to act.
Dan
|
| 741.16 | | MEIS::SCRAGGS | | Tue Oct 11 1988 15:30 | 16 |
| Linda, I went to the Police station, explained exactly what happened
and said I wanted charges against the driver. I think what made
the chief move on it was that I had a police officer with me at
the time and he used to work for the chief. He took the license
number and said he'd call me with any further update. He called
me the next morning to say the kid had been found and charged, told
me what the next step was going to be and he'd call me. I don't
know why I wasn't involved anymore, but the Chief called me about
a week later and said the kid lost his license and had to pay a
fine. I think the best way to start is call the police, talk to
the chief and ask alot of questions on the process. Don't let any
more time go by though, it helped that I acted on it immediately
I was told.
-M-
|
| 741.17 | some people shouldn't be loose.... | FIDERE::NAMOGLU | Sheryl Namoglu : VMS Development | Wed Oct 12 1988 08:41 | 17 |
|
Want another depressing story?
I was talking to my neighbor last night who has a horse and she
relayed the following story :
A young girl (12-13) was riding her pony down the road and a man
in a pickup truck INTENTIONALLY side swiped her. He succeeded in
critically injuring both the pony and the girl. They caught the
guy - and his answer for why he did this was " I don't think horses,
bicycles or dogs belong on the roads". Come to find out, he has
tried to do this before to the same girl but only succeeded in hitting
her foot. I don't know why he wasn't prosecuted before.
This happened within the last month in Francestown NH. Grrrrrr......
|
| 741.18 | ATVers seem to be better | BOEHM::SCHLENER | | Wed Oct 12 1988 09:07 | 12 |
| So far I've been really lucky with cars and their drivers. In most
cases, drivers will slow down or at least move to the other side of the
road (being a country road, the other side of the road is only 5 feet
away).
With all the griping about ATV's and snowmobiles, I've noticed their
riders are MUCH more courtious than car drivers. ATVers will stop their
machines and some even turn them off (Not that it bothers Jasper, only
cows and big rocks do that!).
I have yet to see a car stop for us.
Cindy
|
| 741.19 | photograph the scene | EQUINE::DANI | | Wed Oct 12 1988 09:19 | 16 |
|
Just a thought....
It might be too late, but photographing the scene of the crime is
helpful. I don't know that the skid mark is still there, but allowing
the judge to see stuff like that for his/her self would be in your
favor. Expecially showing the bridge the area around it and the kind
of road (like could the van see you beforehe got to you on the bridge?)
If it works in your favor a photo of you horse may help also. Mine is
a loadly marked pinto, 60% white that is quite easy to see.
Again just a thought... but gather evidence seems to make sense. Were
there any other witnesses?
Dani
|
| 741.20 | education program | BPOV04::MACKINNON | | Fri Oct 21 1988 14:51 | 15 |
|
I don't own a horse of my own, but I do ride a friends when I get
the chance. The point I want to make is that most folks who drive
are not aware of right of ways concerning horses. I'll be honest
with you all, I have never ridden on public roads. I myself was
not aware of the laws. BUT I know how horses react and as a courtesy
to the rider and horse I would stop the car and let them pass.
I don't know how you can educate folks who don't have contact with
horses of the importance of slowing down and stopping. I also live
in the city so the only horses I see are the police horses.
Maybe some sort of public education situation could be used to
enlighten the non-horsey folks on the whats and whys of sharing
the roads with horses. Good luck and be safe!!!
|
| 741.21 | y | POOL::MURPHY | Is it Friday yet? | Mon Nov 07 1988 13:29 | 28 |
| I definitely agree that these dangerous drivers should be taken to
court. If you have witnesses and get plate numbers and description of
vehicles (plates could belong to another vehicle), go for it. The
policeman may have only mentioned that you'd have to appear in court
because in so many similar cases when this was found out, the person
bringing the charges would panic and drop the charges.
Sometimes it was from fear of courtroom proceedings, or fear of
retaliation from the accused party. As far as the fine is concerned, I
agree it should be higher in most cases and sometimes the judge will
rule in that favor when all the facts are presented at time of hearing.
The inconvenience and embarrassment for the accused to have to appear
in court and maybe lose a day's pay as well as pay a fine is worth it.
Except for riding on major highways where horses/pedestrians/bicycles
are prohibited, riding horses on the side of roadways is sometimes
necessary when going to/from trails or when no trails exist. Isn't
this a law (if so, is it statewide or only certain states?) that if a
motorist comes upon a horse and rider they automatically slow down and
pass? That is, unless the horse shows signs of panic and rider
indicates to stop, then motorist is to STOP? Would this be in today's
drivers' test manual does anyone know? If not, it should be.
Of course, being in the manual or not doesn't mean the rude drivers
would adhere to it. They usually ignore the whole book. Just would be
good to know where the law stood (in writing) on the matter.
|
| 741.22 | stop, then pass when signaled | MED::D_SMITH | | Tue Nov 08 1988 08:05 | 3 |
| From what I remember reading in the blue book way back...a motorist
who comes across a horse and rider on a public way shall STOP untill
signaled by the rider to pass!
|
| 741.23 | How about conditioning?? | GENRAL::BOURBEAU | | Tue Nov 08 1988 10:14 | 18 |
| Not to downplay the danger of inconsiderate and stupid drivers,
I don't recall seeing anything in this topic to suggest trying to
"car proof" your horses. This can be done to some degree (varying
with each animal) by penning them up near a busy road, driving into
their pens and around them. There are all kinds of things that can
be done to help this situation that would come under the heading
of an ounce of prevention. I know of one trainer who uses fireworks
and blank pistols while training horses so that loud noises don't
panic them. I have a blind mare who was often led by hand around
construction sites until she'd ignore bulldozers and other heavy
equipment. I suggest that some emphasis on conditioning to traffic
is essential to road safety. Then, by all means, report and prosecute
careless and uncaring drivers to the extent of the law. At least
with a properly conditioned horse, you and you horse will be able
to get through a crisis without injury.
George
|
| 741.24 | Rider responsibility/attitude change.. | HANNAH::REYNOLDS | | Fri Jan 20 1989 15:30 | 38 |
| 2 points that seem to be getting lost in this discussion:
1. Rider courtesy to drivers can make an incredible difference in
attitude. If you listen or talk to 'speedy'car people, they say how
arrogant and obnoxious riders are, this can help one understand why
they speed past horses and honk their horns. Ignorance is part of it,
some people genuinely don't think about it, others are making a point
to the 'arrogant' riders. I make a practice of waving and SMILING at
every person who slows, even slightly, for my horse. The response is
quite encouraging ---and they are more likely to slow down again.
I have been SHOCKED by how many times I will slow down my car for a
horse, creeping past, or stopping, and the rider will ignore me or give
me a haughty nod. It may be law to stop the car, but it is necessary
for riders to encourage and appreciate such courtesy!
2. the second point was addressed in 741.23 and one that is extremely
valid. Get your horse accustomed to cars BEFORE going onto a busy
road!! Don't put yourself into such a risking situation, you should
know your horses stability and be confident of his truck and car
responses - air-brakes, diesels, and all-- Trailer to a friends house
who lives near the road and feed him there, go to old dirt roads and
have a friend drive past slowly, gradually aqainting the horse with
road noise/movement. I suggest watching the Linda Tellington Jones
videos where she shows how to overcome fear and become a safe confident
horse, not only on roads, but with bits of plastic, dogs, strange
objects. I once was hit by a car while riding; a dog jumped out of the
bushes barking -- I was lucky and we came out o.k ---but since then all
my horses have been much more scare proofed and I feel alot safer on
the roads, and I feel like a more responsable rider.
It is a fact that there is more traffic, faster traffic, and less
social courtesy -- so let's as riders help develop an understanding and
safety practice with cars -- Hollering at cars has never seemed to
improve the attitude whereas making a clear, concerted effort to thank
people and be less aloof and horse/haughty has really paid off!! (i'm
not saying don't take liscenses or go to court over reckless driving,
just let's also try to educate and encourage) Good Riding!!
|