Conference noted::equitation

    
    
    I am currrently having the same problem with my TB mare.  She just
    doesn't want to work in the ring on the bit and in a rounded frame.
    I can take her on the trails and she will go all day.  In a long
    frame and on a loose rein.  I tried to take a lesson on Wednesday
    and she was just immpossible to work with.  I went out last night
    and spent *2* hours on getting her to flex and go on the bit without
    pulling me out of the saddle and she still wasn't right.  She can
    do this and *will* do this before I take another lesson.  She is
    just being difficult and stubborn.  Part of the problem is that
    I haven't been able to work with her on a regular basis sinceJune
    due to my relocation from Chicago to Colorado Springs in July. Before
    I left she was working in a rounded frame and on the bit all the
    time.  She was bending through her corners and we had even started
    some lateral work. Now I can't even keep her straight on the rail.
    The other part is that she will take a mile if you give her an inch.
    The only cure that I know of is a lot of regular riding in the ring
    to wear her down and prove that we will do this no matter how long
    it is going to take.  She got pretty upset last night with a lot
    of tail switching and backing and when I got off she gave me a very
    dirty look.  She will get over it.  It will just take a lot of
    wet saddle blankets and me being more stubborn than she is. I *will*
    win this battle of wills.
    
    Good luck
    
    Pat

    The idea with trotting poles is to get the horse bored, which by
    the sounds of it is why she plays up in the first place.
    
    But I think it will work as she is going to really consentrate on
    her footwork. 
    
    Have you tried taking her in the school after a hack.  I doubt it
    will work but try it.
    
    I'm sorry I can't really help,  it seems you have a looney on your
    hands.
    
    good luck
    Helena Sedgwick
    

    We had a mare that had been used as a 5 gaited saddlebred, and
    after we got her and tried to ride in the ring, she would absolutely
    freak out.  She was sick and tired of ringwork and completely
    bored with the whole situation.  If I were you, I would trail ride
    for about 3 weeks straight, and then try the ring again.  Horses
    don't easily forget something they hate, so try giving her a break
    because it sounds as if she is totally ring sour.  Keep us posted.
    
    

	 Is there  a  field  you can do your flat work in (i.e.  a ring
     that's  not  really  a  ring)?  Otherwise,  I'd  vote  for having a
     'discussion' as to who is running the show.  I have a feeling she's
     just  being  a brat.  If she hasn't been worked much in the ring of
     late then she shouldn't be ring sour.  

	 Are you  asking  her to do anything that she might feel is hard
     to do?  She could be rebelling at that.

	 Another tactic  is  to  just  ride for a little bit, until just
     before  she  starts  to  act  up, and then quit (or go for a hack).
     Don't even give her the chance to get a buck in edgewise.  Then you
     might  be  able to gradually increase the time in the ring.  Or try
     combinations  of  different  amounts of time riding in the ring and
     going  out  hacking  (both on the same day).  Maybe it will confuse
     her enough that she won't fuss.

    HI!
    
    I'VE HAD PROBLEMS WITH MY APPY. MARE IN THE PAST.  SHE HAS OVERCOME
    THIS.  
    
    YOU DO NOT MENTION HOW SHE IS ON THE TRAIL.  WHAT I DID WAS TO START
    ON THE TRAIL FIRST TO CORRECT THIS.  SHE DID ALL THAT GARBAGE WITH
    REARING, BUCKING, BALKING, FLYING SIDEWAYS.  BASICALLY WHAT I FIGURED
    OUT WAS SHE HATED BEING RIDDEN.  IT WASN'T ANY FUN FOR HER.  I SET
    OUT TO SHOW HER THAT IT COULD BE FUN.  
    
    I TOOK ONE STEP AT A TIME.  WHEN SHE'D ACT UP I'D SETTLE HER DOWN
    AND JUST LET HER STAND THERE UNTIL SHE GOT SO BORED SHE'D MOVE FORWARD.
    
    AFTER A PERIOD OF TIME SHE STARTED ENJOYING TRAIL RIDES.  I TOOK
    IT FROM A WALK, TO A TROT AND FINALLY TO A CANTER.  SLOWLY.
    SHE WOULD NEVER RELAX PRIOR IN A CANTER BUT AFTER SOME TIME SHE'D
    GO ALONG BEAUTIFULLY.
    
    NOW I'VE STARTED IN THE RING AND SHE'S STILL RELAXED AND HAVING
    A GOOD TIME.
    
    ANYWAYS, I HAD REALIZED THAT SHE DIDN'T ENJOY BEING RIDDEN SO I
    WORKED ONE STEP AT A TIME TO TEACH HER IT COULD BE FUN AND NOT
    ALL WORK.  THEN WHEN SHE REALLY WAS ENJOYING BEING RIDDEN I
    TOOK HER BACK IN THE RING TO DISCOVER SHE IS VERY WILLING NOW.
    
    MY HORSE WAS NOT ONLY RARELY USED BUT SHE HAD BEEN ABUSED.  SHE
    HATED PEOPLE.  BITE, KICK, TURN ON YOU IN THE STALL, REFUSE TO
    BE BRIDLED, SADDLED, THE WHOLE NINE YARDS.  THIS IS ALL CHANGED
    NOW.
    
    ONE THING I DO KNOW, ARABS HAVE A TENDENCY TO SOUR FOR LIFE IF
    THEY HAVE A BAD EXPERIENCE.  MY ADVICE:  TAKE YOUR TIME!
    
    GOOD LUCK
    

    I have worked with lots of Arabs and I have had kind of similar
    experiences.  It might be that she is BORED and therefore arguing
    with you.  
    
    Some of the repetitive exercises that other horses accept might just be
    too much at this time.  (I had a horse that drove my trainer wild--Tom
    would work us just like the rest of his lessons.  But the horse would
    concentrate on 20 meter circles at the sit trot on the bit for just so
    long, then he would start looking elsewhere.  We finally figured out to
    do circles AND serpentines AND leg yields AND half-passes -- all
    mixed in together -- to keep his attention.  I think Tom dreaded
    having to teach my horse and me.)
    
    My late great Stormy could be a REAL pig with nothing but repetitive
    ring work.  For him, I usually worked him on the lunge, down the
    road, down some trails BEFORE I tried ring work.  Then when he was
    relaxed and happy we did "serious" work.
    
    In addition, and this has worked well...  while you are going down
    the trail or down the road ask for simple leg yields and/or flexing
    (shoulder-ins, haunches-ins), ask the horse to be on the bit for
    a time, then leave them alone.  You can do this for a few minutes,
    then PRAISE them.  Then do something else.  Then come back to it
    for a few minutes.  Very often you can encourage them to "give"
    without the frustration of drilling in a ring.  Once they start
    getting the idea this can be fun, the ring drilling isn't so tedious.
     
    Also, sometimes when I drill in the ring, the horse has to be
    constantly encouraged to go forward.  Usually the horse is more
    forward thinking when going down the road or down the trail.

    Is this the same mare we spoke of before?  If she is then I believe
    all of her original training was done in the ring and as someone
    else stated it takes some time for them to forget.
    
    I too feel that work on the trail is the best remedy.  I know with
    our show horses it improves their dispositions a great deal and
    you would be surprised how much work you can do on a trail.
    
    GOOD LUCK
    

    
    
    I agree with note .6.  I think most of us view trail riding as
    fun and relaxing so I imagine the horses do to.  My gelding
    loved trailriding but objected to ringwork.  Very simply, there
    wasn't such neat stuff to look at and he had to pay attention.
    Most important, he had to work.  Blending ringwork on a trail-
    ride could be a solution.  Most of my horses grow bored working
    on a line or under saddle in the ring and I follow the rule
    (especially with colts and fillies) not to let a session run
    over 20 minutes.  You can do or teach a lot in 20 minutes
    and most trainers seem to think that anything over this is a
    waste of time.  With the majority of my horses, this seems
    to be true.  
    
    It can be frustrating to work with a horse that doesn't want
    to do something you want them to do.  I once spend an hour
    insisting that my gelding continue on a road when he wanted
    to return home.  I used to give up and let him have his way.
    That hour paid off.  He knew if he ever refused to do any-
    thing again, I would probably be more stubborn than he cared
    to be.  So if your mare is just being a brat and trying to
    control you, you might want to psyche yourself up for a
    couple of 20 minute sessions for a couple of nights where
    you plan to insist that she does what you intended her to
    do.  Most important, don't get upset, angry, or show any
    signs of irritation.  Just quietly insist.  I've discovered
    that some horses just plain enjoy watching "us" get ticked
    off.
    
    

    When my horse gets bored with the ring work he will buck or shy just
    for something to do.  If I keep his mind busy he will go real well.
    If you just go round and round on the track of the ring the horse knows
    where its going and has time to throw in a few extra things of its own.
    Try lots of circles and changes of direction using the whole ring.
    Serpentines, leg yeild and shoulder in work best with my beast.
    Trotting poles are also another good tool.  Try using a pole on the
    track, pretend its not even there, the horse should go over it in stride
    at all gaits. It will give him something to think about and you some
    time to concentrate on yourself.  Most horses can figure thinks out 
    quickly and get bored.  Some diplay their boredom in different ways,
    sometimes my horse will walk sOoooooooo slow towards the ring I know
    he does'nt look forward to working in the ring. So we head down the
    road or on the trail and go back to the ring tommorrow.  
    
    This is how I try to keep my horse happy.
    I turn him out for some time of his own to play.
    I groom him before I ride or put him away.
    He usually gets one or two days off a week depending on my show
    schedule.
    I ride on the trail or hack in a field every other day.
    I make sure to praise him when he does something good (they love to be
    told they are good)
    I always end my sessions on a good note.
    And last of all, lots of goodies for reward.
    
                              Good Luck
                                  and Have Fun
    
                                          Wendy

    Someone said to keep you folks posted on progress, so here goes:
    
    Saturday, I lunged her for about 15 minutes, some of that work was
    over trotting poles that I would push her out onto with the lunge
    whip.   This took place in the ring and she did *beautifully*.
    Then, I tacked her up and we went out on the trail.
    
    On the trail, she did *awesome*.  Forward motion is not this horse's
    problem and she accepts the bit really well.  I had her work on
    some haunches-in/shoulder-in stuff down the trail just a couple
    of times, and even though she didn't do it perfect (I wouldn't expect
    her to at this stage anyway), I praised her well and patted her
    on the neck.  I think she has it in her to jump, as there was a
    log crossing the path which I walked her up to, expecting her to
    just lift her legs up higher (about 18 inches) and walk over, instead
    she *leapt* in the air.  So, I turned her around and appoached it
    at a trot, she jumped it nice and smooth and seemed like she was
    having a great time!  Anyway, enough of that.  The real progress
    was made in the ring once I got back from the trail.
    
    I had her in the ring, and figured that I'd go around with her 2
    or three times to finish off the day, so she wouldn't have time
    to be a brat, as suggested in a previous reply.  She  was wonderful.
    We went around once at the walk, and twice at the trot over the
    poles that had been left there from when I lunged her earlier.
    After the second time around, I made her halt, praised and patted
    her, and got off in the ring, leading her to the barn from there.
    I also loosened the girth one whole and ran up the stirrups, so
    her reward for being good in the ring was the end of the workday
    for her.  Of course, only time will tell if this method will work.
                                                                   
    I may ride her again tonight and try the same stuff - maybe even
    set up a teeney jump (20 inches) in the middle of the ring if I
    can find two blocks of equal height to set the pole on....
                                                                      
    Thanks for all the replies - If anyone has any other useful information
    they'd like to add, please do!
    
    Cheers,
    
    Sue

    
    Glad to hear you are getting results. My part arab mare is very
    similar. 15 minutes of varied ring work and she'd start to back,
    throw her self about and generally misbehave. She would also arch
    her neck slightly to one side as if so say 'I will NOT do what YOU
    want'.!!  In the end I let her mess about and then we would stand
    until she got thoroughly bored, then push her on.  After about three
    attempts she gave in, and we did another five minutes and finished
    with me the winner for a change!  She also is a lovely hack, alert
    and easy. I think the trouble is that I have hacked her so much
    and she enjoys it so much that when we come to do some serious work
    she just does not want to know.  With hindsight I think I would
    have been better mixing hacking and ring work a lot earlier, so
    she would realise that she had to have a mix of business and pleasure.
    
    
    Karen
    

    Karen,
    
    Although this may really belong in a different base note, can you
    tell me, are Arabs and part-Arabs at all popular in the UK?  When
    I lived there last year, I saw *none* at the stable I took lessons
    at, and there were always horses coming in and out....
    
    -Suzy P._curious_in_the_U.S.
    

    Never having been there... But, the Blunts saved many desert ARabians
    from destruction  by buying them up during raging ward among Bedouin
    tribes, if I have my history straight.  They established the Crabbet
    Stud, which is falling into decay now.  Anyway, the Crabbet horses
    were frequently sold back to Egyptian breeders after the wars ended.
    
    If you're interested, you could contact IAHA in Colorado.
    InternationalArabian Horse Association, that is.  I've seen ads
    for Crabbet-bred horses in England; I just don't know whom to contact.
    
    Merrie

    Well, it appears she's changed her mind about the ring!  I worked
    her in it last Saturday night and she was very well-behaved.  I had
    her leg-yeilding down the diagonals of the ring on both sides, going
    over trotting poles, and even a small jump (which became a trotting
    pole after she knocked it down).  I'm not sure if it's because I
    free-lunged her for about 45 minutes before hand, or because the
    obstacles in the ring made it more interesting for her....
    
    I hope this good fortune lasts....it'll be a LONG winter if I can
    only ride her on the weekend and not weekday evenings in the lighted 
    ring!
    
    Cheers,
    
    Sue
          

    
    I have similar problems with NE winter nights. I went to trail riding
    in the ring. Long rein, nothing more than a walk in and around whatever
    was setup in the ring. 15 or 20 minutes to loosen up the joints
    and maintain the muscle tone. Then I stopped.
    
    I don't have the luxury of an empty ring to free lunge and I don't
    like to use the loung line anymore than necessary. (ticks my horse
    off)
    
    Good luck - Nancy
    

I'm wondering what happened with your mare now that it's been a 
few months.

I've just recently moved back to MA, and have an option to ride
some neighbors unschooled animals.  After a lot of off and on in
the past 6 years with lessons and leasing, it's tempting to invest
a little time in these horses (doing them at least as much good as 
me, I'm sure).  

One of the horses has this ring aversion.  I've only ridden him once
but have been told that he has this habit: he gets bored/annoyed after
about 10 minutes and makes for the entrance (closed gate).  I firmly
kept trying to bend him away (he's far from knowing anything about
bending-- we'll be working more on that if we can stay in the ring
longer... but gradually).  I praised him highly every time we were
able to start around the ring again, and then tried to quit after a
good note. (Leaving by the other entrance!) I didn't have  my whip
(might next time).  The additional rumor is that he used to rear... 
including in cases like this (but preceded by a lot of head shaking,
which I didn't see any of).  So I'm hoping to get him to listen 
enough to keep him forward to reduce the chances of that. 

Like you, I am not really excited about a show-down.  And some of this
concern may be premature-- I think I'm as well-schooled as anyone who's
ridden him, so I may be able to get him to be happy working for longer
periods with less trouble than I expect. (HArd to guess after one ride,
despite the stories.)  

Some things I hope to try: 
 o   trail work.  This is what he's used to; I've seen him behave on trail,
        but the rider was using something more severe than my snaffle.
        I'd like to take him out first with another horse,then alone to 
        see what he thinks.
 o   longeing; provided he takes to this, I can work him more often, and
        extend the work period, and reward him for keeping at it (easier
        than dealing with a riding showdown.) also might show up & help
        some onesidedness problems that I suspect he has. 
 o   doing ring work outside the ring
 o   distractions such as trot poles near the entrance?  part of the problem
        starts long before he gets to the entrance, though.  Maybe with my
        stick I'll have more success keeping him occupied with figures,
        transitions, halt-flexion, baby leg yielding, etc.

But do let us know how your mare is faring in the ring.

--carrie