| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
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| 76.1 | Equestrian Digest Issue #100 | LDP::BELANGER | N1FTD 144.910/44.56.0.142 | Thu Aug 25 1988 18:31 | 353 |
| Equestrian Digest Wed 13 Jul 1988 Issue 100
Today's Topics:
The Century Mark
tv coverage of olympics - equestrian
riding with a 2 year old
Happy Trails To You All
Equestrian Teams
horseback riding
Re: horseback riding
Riding as exercise for the rider (was: horseback riding)
Re: horseback riding
Re: horseback riding
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 88 17:01:20 EDT
From: [email protected] (Equestrian Digest Coordinator)
Subject: The Century Mark
Reply-To: [email protected] (Ken Rossen)
It does seem remarkable that I've come to Issue 100 of the Equestrian
Digest. This mailing list has been going since the fall of 1985, and
there are now about 140 addresses. Furthermore the mailing list has
given rise to the rec.equestrian newsgroup. The exchange of articles
between the Digest and rec.equestrian is running well, and has widened
our audience. All in all, the list has been a success.
Thank you all for your contributions. It has been tremendous fun
reading about your experiences and opinions and sharing our own with
you. Continued good luck to you all.
--
Ken and Karen Rossen [email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Liz Gores)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: tv coverage of olympics - equestrian
Date: 30 Jun 88 11:38:41 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Piscataway, NJ
Posted: Thu Jun 30 07:38:41 1988
Someone mentioned in a recent submission that they hoped
tv coverage of dressage at the Olympics would be better
than last time. I don't remember seeing ANY dressage
coverage 4 years ago (did I miss it?), though there was
some coverage of Combined Training and Show Jumping.
In a recent article in the USCTA News, "Would You Like to See
Eventing on TV?", readers were encouraged to write to NBC to
express their interest and support in seeing more equestrian
coverage of the '88 Seoul Olympics. According to the
article, "ONE LETTER REPRESENTS A THOUSAND VIEWERS to some networks
(Caps theirs)."
Anyway, here's the address at NBC to write to:
NBC Sports
30 Rockefeller Plaza
New York, NY 10019
So if anyone's got some spare time, between working, riding, family
etc.(!), let's start writing!
liz gores
piscataway, nj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 Jul 88 13:08:35 EDT
From: Jan Burruss <[email protected]>
Subject: riding with a 2 year old
I'd like to thank you all again for advice about mounts for young children. I
should clarify, however, that I have no intention of starting to let my little
boy (who is now 25 months) go riding 'all my himself,' even if, in his braver
moments, he thinks he's ready to do that! I made my initial request because I
want plenty of time to get the perfect pony or other calm mount for him. But,
I don't plan to let him do more than ride infront of me with my arm securely
around him or sit on the horse alone and be led at a walk until he is much
older (how old to begin is a question I also would like a response on). I want
to be very careful to avoid injury, of course, but also I am very concerned
about preventing him from getting scared. Can you imagine how big any horse is
relative to a person who is only 35 inches tall? I try to remember that when
I'm with him in the barn or on the trails.
Two other things:
I am very interested in seeing some Norwegian Fjord ponies and Haflingers, so
can anyone tell me where to find them in New England?
And, in a postscript to the mail Snowy River movies, I read last week in the
Boston Globe's 'Ask the Globe' column that Tom Burlinson (who played Jim) never
rode a horse before he rode in the movies, but was able to learn to ride as we
see him in the movies despite an allergy to horse dander! How about that for
fast learning! (He is the actual person coming down those hills, don't you
think?)
Thanks again.
Jan Burruss
Cambridge MA
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Deitrick)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Happy Trails To You All
Keywords: Adios!
Date: 6 Jul 88 17:44:08 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Naperville, Illinois
I have taken a job with a consulting firm here in the Chicago and so will
be leaving Bell Labs. Thursday, 7 July, is my last day here. I doubt that
I will have access to USENET in my new job and so I want to say good bye
to you all.
# # # ###### ###### # #
# # # # # # # # # #
# # # # # # # # # #
####### # # ###### ###### #
# # ####### # # #
# # # # # # #
# # # # # # #
####### ###### # ### # ##### ###
# # # # # # # # # ###
# # # # # # # # ###
# ###### # # # # ##### #
# # # ####### # # #
# # # # # # # # # ###
# # # # # ### ####### ##### ###
Carl Deitrick
ihnp4!ihuxv!cbd
(but not for long)
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Jennifer Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Equestrian Teams
Keywords: Other than dressage?
Date: 7 Jul 88 16:56:21 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Theory Center, Cornell U., Ithaca NY
Thanks for posting the US Olympic Team for dressage!
Does anyone know who was chosen for the other teams
(including driving)?
Thanks too, for posting the address for NBC sports!
I plan to write a letter this afternoon! :)
Jennifer Moore
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Deborah Bloom none)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: horseback riding
Keywords: college, exercise, riding, safe?
Date: 12 Jul 88 14:18:25 GMT
Organization: John Von Neumann Center, Princeton, NJ
I *need* to exercise regularly, and am considering taking up horseback
riding in college this fall. My questions are "Is it (relatively)
safe?", "Is it a good choice for exercise?", and "How long does it take
before you stop feeling incredible pain the following day?"
Any other general info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Debbie
ARPA:
[email protected]
[email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Bob Kinne)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: horseback riding
Keywords: college, exercise, riding, safe?
Date: 13 Jul 88 15:08:32 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Bob Kinne)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Safety: This is a very complex issue, without a yes or no answer.
The factors involved are; the rider's skill, the horse's degree
of training, the terrain for riding, the obstacles and traffic
to be encountered, and most important, the rider's ability to
deal calmly and competently with unexpected situations. To try
to give you some perspective - horseback riding under reasonable
circumstances is certainly safer than hang gliding or technical
mountaineering, but is also certainly less safe than aerobic
exercise or swimming in a guarded pool. But the degree of safety
is up to you - choose a gentle, well educated horse, get good
instruction, ride in safe areas away from traffic, and you will
be safe from all but highly improbable freak accidents.
Exercise: Riding at a good pace several times a week for 45
minutes or more is wonderful exercise - for the horse. The ride
will make your muscles tired and stiff, and will help develop
strength in your thighs. But it will do absolutely nothing for
your cardiovascular system or your endurance. As a part-time
breeder and trainer, I ride several horses regularly, and get
occasional stiff and sore muscles. I also run, cross-country
ski, swim, and lift weights for *my* fitness and flexibility.
I would recommend a similar mix to anyone else who rides.
Pain: Like any other muscular exertion, if your muscles are
in shape and you are flexible, you can recuperate from even
long, difficult rides in a few hours. As noted above, a good
mix of aerobic training and strength and flexibility exercise
will soon condition you to riding, or any other sport.
Summary: As much as I would like to promote horseback riding,
and incidentally sell horses, it just is not the case that
riding alone will provide much aerobic or fitness benefit.
There are many beneficial results from a riding program that
come from being out in the open and from working cooperatively
with another sentient creature, but to develop a healthy body,
I would advise combining riding with other fitness activities.
Hope this is of some help. Good luck with your riding.
Bob Kinne Optoelectronics Computing Center
UCB, Campus Box 525 VOICE (303) 492-3330
Boulder, CO 80309-0525 BITNET [email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Rob Bernardo)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Riding as exercise for the rider (was: horseback riding)
Keywords: college, exercise, riding, safe?
Date: 13 Jul 88 13:47:13 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Rob Bernardo)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
Tough question to answer. Too many variables like what sort of riding
you are doing (jumping vs. just plain riding in an arena, e.g.), the
horse's temperament, etc. I'd guess it was safer than any contact team sport
and safer than many common activities. I wouldn't worry about it.
+"Is it a good choice for exercise?",
I have heard it can be good aerobic exercise, but I'm not so sure about
this. It doesn't compare to, say, using an exercise cycle nor a quick paced
bodybuilding workout. It is very good for leg and butt development.
One reason why most rodeo cowboys have wonderful lower body development and
yet have underdeveloped arms and especially torsos! :-)
+ "How long does it take
+before you stop feeling incredible pain the following day?"
Now, this depends upon how you are built and how well you ride. Maybe
the reason I took to riding like a fish to water (at age 30!) was because
I don't get very sore. My first riding experience was actually three
consecutive days of riding - and I just got slightly bruised feeling
and that after the first half hour. If you ride regularly and your
"seat" is good (you don't bounce around in the saddle) you won't get
sore except for the first time.
+Any other general info would be greatly appreciated.
If you take to riding, you won't be concerned about safety and soreness.
--
Rob Bernardo uucp: ...![backbone]!pacbell!rob internet: [email protected]
Pacific Bell SRVAC Room 4E750 | R Bar JB (residence)
San Ramon, California (415) 823-2417 | Concord, California (415) 827-4301
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (John B. Nagle)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: horseback riding
Keywords: college, exercise, riding, safe?
Date: 13 Jul 88 18:20:10 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (John B. Nagle)
Organization: Stanford University
Safe? Probably not. The lives of three friends have been ruined by
riding. One was thrown headfirst into a telephone pole by a runaway; she
was in a coma for a week, and was never the same afterward; she had to give
up a skilled job for a menial one. The second was also thrown, and had a
head injury; she's lost most of her energy and has headaches all the time.
The third was stepped on in the chest after a horse fell under her in
a dressage lesson. She was in intensive care for a week, had liver, kidney,
and spinal damage, and still isn't able to work eighteen months after the
accident.
I still ride myself, but always with a hard hat, and only on quiet
horses.
John Nagle
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Herbert Kanner)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: horseback riding
Keywords: college, exercise, riding, safe?
Date: 13 Jul 88 17:33:52 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Herbert Kanner)
Organization: Development Systems Group, Apple Computer
Since there have already been a couple of follow-ups on this, I will
be brief. I have been riding for 25 years. I think if you start with
a competent instructor (that is a problem in itself) you probably
won't be dealing with incredible pain. Re safety, I have been doing
definitely non-conservative riding, including a bit of the sort of
jumping you would do in a riding class, and until a couple of years
ago, the worst injuries were a couple of sprains despite many many
spills. A couple of years ago I managed to break a rib, but my own
inattention to what I was doing was the causative factor.
I think I must disagree with one of the correspondents about the
exercise factor. For years, riding has seemed so effortless--in fact,
if I caught myself breathing hard I would ask myself what I was doing
wrong--that I always told my doctor that riding was wonderful exercise
for the horse. Well, he kept bugging me to take my pulse while riding
and I kept saying that was impossible. One day I decided to find out.
I am mainly working on dressage, which one would think of as fairly
passive. In the middle of some dressage work, I just jumped off the
horse and took my pulse; got a reading of 120. Then I went into a
ring with some very low (1.5 foot) jumps, trotted over some caveletti
and took one low jump, the whole circuit of the ring being in a
forward set, which takes a bit more effort. Jumped off the horse and
got a reading of 140. Now, I might have miscounted by one in the
fifteen seconds, so call it 136 to 140. That would seem to tell me
that I was engaging in cardio-vascular exercise! An interesting
additional measurement was made on the horse while quietly walking
home on a long rein. I felt that I was limp as a rag and in no way
exerting myself. Nonsense! My pulse was 80--that is 20 above resting
value.
Herb Kanner
Apple Computer, Inc.
{idi, ios, nsc}!apple!kanner
[email protected]
------------------------------
End of Equestrian Digest
*********************
|
| 76.2 | Equestrian Digest Issue #101 | LDP::BELANGER | N1FTD 144.910/44.56.0.142 | Thu Aug 25 1988 18:32 | 539 |
| Equestrian Digest Wed 20 Jul 1988 Issue 101
Today's Topics:
Re: horseback riding
Re: horseback riding (safety)
Practical Horseman, July 1988 contents
Wild Horse adoption in Wisconsin
moving to Massachussetts
Re: moving to Massachussetts
Olympic 3-Day Team members
Re: moving to Massachussetts
Re: Olympic 3-Day Team members
Riding as exercise
Need Equus Address
Starting a stable/breeding farm/etc.
Equestrian health/safety
Re: Equestrian health/safety
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Rob Bernardo)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: horseback riding
Keywords: college, exercise, riding, safe?
Date: 14 Jul 88 01:28:08 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Rob Bernardo)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Herbert Kanner) writes:
+ In the middle of some dressage work, I just jumped off the
+horse and took my pulse; got a reading of 120. Then I went into a
+ring with some very low (1.5 foot) jumps, trotted over some caveletti
+and took one low jump, the whole circuit of the ring being in a
+forward set, which takes a bit more effort. Jumped off the horse and
+got a reading of 140. ...
Gee, it sounds like jumping off a horse is good cardio-vascular exercise!
:-) (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
--
Rob Bernardo uucp: ...![backbone]!pacbell!rob internet: [email protected]
Pacific Bell SRVAC Room 4E750 | R Bar JB (residence)
San Ramon, California (415) 823-2417 | Concord, California (415) 827-4301
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Tracey Baker)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: horseback riding (safety)
Keywords: college, exercise, riding, safe?
Date: 13 Jul 88 20:17:30 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Tracey Baker)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill
In <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Bob Kinne) wrote:
>Safety: This is a very complex issue, without a yes or no answer.
>[...] But the degree of safety
>is up to you - choose a gentle, well educated horse, get good
>instruction, ride in safe areas away from traffic, and you will
>be safe from all but highly improbable freak accidents.
One thing about the good instruction - find an instructor who
will teach you how to fall! When I first started riding, around
age 7, I had a *wonderful* instructor. The first thing I learned,
before I ever got on a horse, was how to groom the horse, tack up,
and clean stalls. Once I was on the horse, we spent a lot of time
on "emergency situations" - what to do if the horse bolts, how to
dismount in a hurry, and how to fall. I had to actually practice
all of these (as well as riding without reins and/or stirrups, and lots
of other stuff designed to improve balance and confidence), and I've
been *very* thankful I did - it's probably saved me from several
broken bones (or worse).
It may sound silly, but learning to fall is important. I've seen
people get hurt because they didn't know how - they're afraid of falling
so they try to hang on (usually trying to regain their balance by
hanging on the reins), scare the horse even more, and end up falling
on their head under the horse's feet. I've never been seriously
injured while riding, and I owe a lot of that to learning what to
do when something goes wrong.
--
Tracey Baker {att, rutgers!moss}!mhuxu!tab or [email protected] (201)582-5357
Rm. 2F-211, AT&T Bell Laboratories, 600 Mountain Ave., Murray Hill NJ 07974
Any resemblance to actual opinions, |"There ain't no cure when the rabid
living or dead, is entirely coincidental. | rock dog bites..." - Split Sydney
------------------------------
From: robin%[email protected]
Date: Sat, 25 Jun 88 01:29:01 CDT
Subject: Practical Horseman, July 1988 contents
Here is another magazine table of contents. Statements in [ ] are my
additions. Feel free to send queries if you want to know more about a
particular listed item, I'll try to assist.
Robin Crickman, [email protected]
Practical Horseman (Volume 16, number 7) July, 1988
FEATURES
Patty Johnson. Managing a Young Prospect For Show or Resale. This young-horse
specialist shares her system for launching successful hunters and jumpers.
Riding For Soundness. Show-horse veterinarian Ron Blackwell offers strategies
you can use to protect your own horse from the wear and tear of a demanding
performance career.
Stable Skills. How To Crosstie Your Horse Without Crossties. There's no
flying back, no struggle, no broken halters once you've taught your horse
to stand untied for grooming.
The Ideal Stall. You can make your horse's life happier and healthier--and
your own life a little easier--with a well-equipped stable environment.
Making The Most Of A School Horse. This quick warm-up routine will ensure
that you and your horse are ready to get the most out of valuable lesson time.
[Useful warm-up ideas whether riding a school horse or your own horse.]
DEPARTMENTS
Confirmation Clinic with Champ Hough [percheron-tb filly, qh gelding,
anglo-arab mare]
Saddle Ways and Bridle Whys. Horseman R. Scot Evans with a cure for bucking;
western trainer Pat Carter corrects anticipation in a trail horse.
Forum. How do you interpret a noncommittal prepurchase vet exam? Trainers
Holly Hugo-Vidal and Richard Shrake exchange opinions with Jeffrey Witwer, DVM.
What Do You Do? Your horse breaks out in bumps.
Idea Exchange [Use a bag of frozen peas as a cold pack on a horse's leg]
Jumping Clinic with George Morris [regular feature wherein Morris criticizes
riders from photographs they send in]
------------------------------
From: robin%[email protected]
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 88 01:35:22 CDT
Subject: Wild Horse adoption in Wisconsin
Today in Eau Claire, Wisconsin was one of the wild horse adoptions.
John and I went over to see what sort of animals these horses might
be. We were surprised and pleased at the quality of horseflesh
present. Most animals were young, 1-3 years old. Some were halter
broken by prison workers in New Mexico (there was an article about
that program in EQUUS recently), others were still untrained. Most
were chestnut or bay. Most were actually large ponies (13-14H).
There were about 150 horses and 75 burros at this adoption center.
The burros were incredibly cute and fairly quiet. If someone wanted a
sound and easy keeping friend for their horse, the $75 adoption cost
for a burro might be reasonable. All the horses and burros have had
worming, shots and Coggins tests before adoption. One lady we met in
Eau Claire explained that she wanted her burros as guards for her
sheep farm. Seems the burros drive off coyotes and dogs and raise an
alarm when disturbed.
The horses were in really good shape. Flabby from living in pens, but
not sickly and not wild-eyed, either. Some are such veterans of the
holding center (which has hundreds of daily visitors according to the
Bureau of Land Management staff) that they come to the edge of their
pens to beg for cookies and candy. Not what I expected of wild horses.
The BLM workers also explained that the stallions they had brought
were the submissive rather than dominants. These stallions were more
quiet than many of the mares, even when penned in groups of 5 or 6!
The geldings (mostly veterans of the prison training program) were also
pleasant and looked like they could start training immediately. Looks
like anyone who gets one of these halter trained horses is getting a
good animal for $125, a horse that is neither crazy nor vicious nor
any more difficult to handle than the normal horse.
We have put in our application for the adoption coming this August in
Minnesota. The process requires that the applicant have a place to keep
the horse which has a 6 foot fenced corral at least 20 by 20. You
must keep the horse in that until he is "gentled". Thereafter you can
put the horse under "normal" horse management. The process in Eau
Claire was that all the people who had put in advance applications
drew numbers from a hat. They then went to the pens and picked their
horse or horses (you can select up to 4 at a time) in the order of the
numbers that they had drawn. Any walk-in selections were made after
the mailed applicants had their horses.
Horses were then loaded into trailers. The adoption center workers
put leads and halters (supplied by the adopters) onto each horse and
loaded them into the trailers. It appears that a stock type trailer
would be best for this effort. The adopters pay $125 for each horse,
sign an agreement relating to care of the horses and take them home.
We will be able to tell you a lot more about the experience if all
goes as we hope in August. We'll keep you posted. Oh, for those of
you who think these are only cow horses, there was a variety of
appearances, but some looked rather thoroughbredy, a few like quarter
horses and there was one very nice stud colt who looked and moved like
an Andalusian at the adoption in Eau Claire. He would have been my
first choice if I had been adopting today.
The Bureau of Land Management Adopt-A-Wild-Horse Program will send you
a brochure on request. Their phone is 601 965-4405 and address is:
300 Woodrow Wilson
Suite 326
Jackson, MS 39213
There is a permanent adoption center in Lewisberry Pennsylvania (phone
717-938-2560) and another in Cross Plains, Tennessee (phone 615 654-2180)
for those who live in the East. There are several permanent centers
serving the West but their locations are not in the brochure I received.
If you ask for the brochure and you are located in the West, I am sure
the locations near you will be listed.
Robin Crickman [email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Victoria Rosly D'ull)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: moving to Massachussetts
Keywords: transportation, boarding
Date: 14 Jul 88 19:53:04 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Vicka d'Ull)
Organization: Johns Hopkins Univ. Computing Ctr.
I have a problem. I've just been offered the Job of my Dreams at
MIT, I'm moving up to Cambridge on Monday (they move fast, these
engineers) -- and I have absolutely no idea what to do with my horse.
Does anyone out there ever had a horse transported long distances?
(I think it's about five hundred miles from here to there.) Is
commercial shipping the way to go, or should I try to find space in
someone's private trailer? And what, if anything, is the boarding
situation like in the Boston area?
Thanks.....
--Vicka
Johns Hopkins University
Baltimore, MD
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (susans)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: moving to Massachussetts
Keywords: transportation, boarding
Date: 15 Jul 88 13:04:50 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Susan Scheide -CFI-)
Organization: Consumer Financial Institute, Waltham, Mass.
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Vicka d'Ull) writes:
>
>I have a problem.
>... I'm moving up to Cambridge on Monday...
>I have absolutely no idea what to do with my horse.
>
>Does anyone out there ever had a horse transported long distances?
>
We moved two horses from California to Massachusetts in 1974.
>Is commercial shipping the way to go, or should I try to find space in
>someone's private trailer?
It probably would be the best way if you feel you cannot rent
a horse trailer and drive them yourself. 500 miles really isn't
that far!
This is what we did for our summer (hot) of '74 +3,000 mile trek:
First we bought a horse trailer after looking into flying the
horses (expensive, they require a person to fly in the cargo
area with the horses, and say that if the horse acts up they
may have to shoot it???!!!) and commercial shipping (also very
expensive) as driving 3,000 miles wasn't something my parents
wanted to do in the midst of disrupting the lives of their
3 kids, 4 dogs, and 2 horses.
Second, we hired a professional horse handler (a wrangler, in
western terms) to take our station wagon, our horse trailer (with
horses, obviously) and our gas credit cards to Massachusetts.
We gave him the address of the stable we had contacted in advance
(the relator came in handy for this) and instructed him to take
them there as safely and as soon as possible. We also gave him
a plane ticket from Boston back to California. I don't know how
much we paid him.
He drove at night because of the heat, and rested during the day.
There are "horse hotels" that you can get a bed for yourself and
stalls for your horses. He took care of all the arrangements for
that.
After the first day, one of the horses wouldn't go back in the
trailer. He was able to sedate him and get him in and be on
his way.
I think it took him 6 days to get to Massachusetts. He got to
the stable with no trouble, and left our car, trailer, and horses
there. He was in frequent phone contact with us, so we knew when
he arrived. The mare lay down minutes after arriving, and didn't
get up again for three days, except to drink and urinate. I
guess the trip was pretty rough on them, but there were no
lasting effects.
This man was wonderful! He was getting married three days after he
got to Massachusetts, and the money he earned help pay for his
honeymoon. Of course, it could have been a disaster if we
had just hired any clown to do this job -- we had references and
knew this guy was a horse expert and trustworthy.
We sold the trailer later when we found we didn't need it.
We also sold one of the horses when we realized he was totally
insane, but that's a different story.
--
Susan Scheide
Another friend of Bill's
"I am responsible..."
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Jan Pengelly)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Olympic 3-Day Team members
Date: 15 Jul 88 15:01:26 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Jan Pengelly)
Organization: Allen-Bradley Company, Inc; Industrial Computer Division, Highland Heights, OH
This is my first time attempting to post to any newsgroup!! Forgive me if
things don't work out.
In response to the request for names of other USET teams - I offer the
Combined Training Team - Bruce Davidson, Karen Stives, Phyliss Dawson, and Jane
Sleeper. The selection committee took the top finishers at Kentucky for the team.
If anyone has any interest in Combined Training out there - I would be glad to
converse. I am a Training Level competitor (Maybe Prelim by fall) and Asst
Area Chairman for Area VIII for the USCTA. I also groom for friends at 3-Days, and would enjoy seeing more talk on CT in this newsgroup!!!
Jan Pengelly
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Jan Penovich)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: moving to Massachussetts
Date: 18 Jul 88 11:56:53 GMT
Organization: Gould CSD, Fort Lauderdale, FL
in article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Victoria Rosly D'ull) says:
>
>
>
> Does anyone out there ever had a horse transported long distances?
> (I think it's about five hundred miles from here to there.) Is
> commercial shipping the way to go, or should I try to find space in
> someone's private trailer?
I don't know anything about boarding horses in Massachussetts,
but I do know about transporting a horse a long distance.
I used a commercial shipping company to move two horses from
New York to South Florida during the spring several years ago.
It took a couple of days, but the horses arrived just dandy
(so did my tack trunk and all my stuff). The horses left N. Y. with
their blankets on, and the man who rode with them removed them as they
got into warmer weather.
Maybe the stable that you are at has a trailer and someone who
would be willing to move your horse for you?
=> T.T.F.N., Jan Penovich ([email protected]) <=
=> ...!{uunet,sun,pur-ee,brl-smoke}!gould!jpenovich <=
=> ...!ihnp4!{codas,allegra}!novavax!gould!jpenovich <=
=> NOTE: Disregard header info. Email to above paths only. <=
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Kate Symonds)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Olympic 3-Day Team members
Date: 19 Jul 88 05:45:46 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Kate Symonds)
Organization: NetExpress Communications, Inc., Vienna, VA
i'm glad to see someone else interested in CT & eventing here. i
refuse to do it myself being too chicken to jump something i cant
see over the top of. but i love to watch and have told my friends who
ar just getting into it that i will help groom....this seems to satisfy
us all. i've started making plans to go to either radnor or chesterland
three day event this fall, maybe to help, maybe to watch, i'm not sure
yet. great stuff,eventing. i hope you were able to watch the video for
the Lexington event on tv, carried on PBS down here in virginia.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Jul 88 13:46 EDT
From: <KAFURAMK%[email protected]>
Subject: Riding as exercise
Original_To: COM%"[email protected]"
I know that most people feel that riding is 'good exercise for the horse'
but if I ride regularly (3 or 4 days per week) I have a hard time keeping
my weight in triple digits! My riding sessions are mostly dressage with
some jumping. I always feel that I have worked hard, more so after a
dressage session than jumping (which, I am sure, will sound backwards to
most folks). Riding may not get you into shape, but it is obvious to me
that you have to be in shape to do it well (how many overweight and out
of shape riders do you see doing upper level dressage and grand prix?).
------------------------------
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Need Equus Address
Date: 19 Jul 88 01:01:53 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
XPortal-User-Id: 1.1001.3939
Would some kind soul give me the subscription address and one-year
rate for Equus? What I'm after is enough information to get a letter
and a check off to them, to revive my defunct subscription.
Post, or email to:
[email protected]
...!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!dgee
Thanks... Dave Goodman
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (m l barron)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Starting a stable/breeding farm/etc.
Date: 19 Jul 88 22:07:23 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Naperville, Illinois
Greetings,
Currently I'm employed at Bell Labs but my heart & soul are leading
me elsewhere. (take me home coutry roads, to the place I belong...)
I am very interested in starting a horse operation on my parent's
property in north central Wisconsin (between Wausau and Rhinelander).
They have 520 acres. The specific type of operation or combination
thereof is open.
I don't feel that I have the expertise required to start such a
project on my own. Therefore I am looking for a trainer/instructor who
would be willing to go into such a venture.
Any advice and/or any interest would be greatly appreciated.
Marlene Barron
ihnp4!ihuxz!barron
(312) 979-3749
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Deborah Scherrer)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Equestrian health/safety
Date: 19 Jul 88 17:04:23 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Deborah Scherrer)
Distribution: usa
Organization: mt Xinu, Berkeley
Well, after all the talk about equine safety and human health, I had to
pass along the following totally unconfirmed and unsubstantiated, word of
mouth, research reports:
Regarding equitation safety:
I once heard that someone had done a study of the amount of injuries
and deaths in the Olympic sports (including bobsledding, ski
jumping, etc.) and, you guessed it, the equestrian sports
(no doubt 3 day and stadium jumping) came out on top.
Regarding health benefits of riding:
I once heard about another study hoping to find which
sports really did contribute most to human health.
So they studied professional runners, swimmers, bicyclists,
football players, tennis players, the whole range. And, guess
which group of althletes came out in better physical condition.
You guessed it again -- the jockeys.
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Herbert Kanner)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Equestrian health/safety
Date: 20 Jul 88 16:58:11 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Herbert Kanner)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Development Systems Group, Apple Computer
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Deborah Scherrer) writes:
>Well, after all the talk about equine safety and human health, I had to
>pass along the following totally unconfirmed and unsubstantiated, word of
>mouth, research reports:
>
>Regarding equitation safety:
> I once heard that someone had done a study of the amount of injuries
> and deaths in the Olympic sports (including bobsledding, ski
> jumping, etc.) and, you guessed it, the equestrian sports
> (no doubt 3 day and stadium jumping) **came out on top**.
>
I don't mind unconfirmed and unsubstantiated, but ambiguity has no
place in the news. Does "came out on top" mean most injuries and
deaths or least. I am not trying to be a smart-ass. Until reading
the paragraph after that one, in which you were less ambiguous with
respect to the physical condition of jockeys, I had no idea which way
you meant it. After reading that second paragraph, I decided by
analogy that you must have meant fewest injuries and deaths.
Herb Kanner
Apple Computer, Inc.
{idi, ios, nsc}!apple!kanner
[email protected]
------------------------------
End of Equestrian Digest
*********************
|
| 76.3 | Equestrian Digest Issue #102 | LDP::BELANGER | N1FTD 144.910/44.56.0.142 | Thu Aug 25 1988 18:33 | 353 |
| Equestrian Digest Mon 1 Aug 1988 Issue 102
Today's Topics:
Touch Of Class
unsubstantiated rumors
Beginner seeking comments, experiences
Re: Touch Of Class
Re: moving to Massachussetts
Eye Problems
Re: Touch Of Class
Re: moving to Massachussetts
Re: moving to Massachussetts
Practical Horseman, August 1988
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 88 14:10:01 PDT
From: Chip Kozy <chip%[email protected]>
Subject: Touch Of Class
While watching the Caddilac Grand Prix yesterday (in which Joe
Fargis won the jump-off) we got to wondering about Touch Of Class.
It seems that after the last Olympics there was talk about breeding
Touch Of Class to Abdulla. Does anyone know if this actually took
place, and if so what became of the foal?
Chip Kozy (415) 939-2400 @ Varian 2700 Mitchell Dr. Walnut Creek, Cal. 94598
...!pacbell!varian!vaxwaller!chip
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Deborah Scherrer)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: unsubstantiated rumors
Date: 22 Jul 88 19:48:11 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Deborah Scherrer)
Distribution: usa
Organization: mt Xinu, Berkeley
Sorry to confuse you. The report stated that the equestrian sports
had the highest rate of injuries and deaths. And I certainly cannot
confirm any of this, though think I heard it on the TV coverage of
the LA Olympics (what little there was). The other report was, I believe,
from Science magazine of some years ago. Wish I had saved it.
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Gary J. Rosenblum)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Beginner seeking comments, experiences
Date: 23 Jul 88 06:40:00 GMT
Organization: New York University
I have just started taking lessons on English-style riding, and I do
not recall having so much fun! I live in New York City, and taking
lessons once a week is so relaxing, fun, and more than I ever
imagined. I had been on a horse once, but decided to take lessons
(at Claremont, the oldest riding academy in NY) after my girlfriend
started taking them. She is a true horse afficionado!
I am interested in horse ranches in the New York City area, so when
I take vacation I can continue to ride. I am also interested in any
memories of early riding experiences, interesting tidbits, whatever
you may have! It's just such a fascinating "hobby", one that seems
so easy when you look at it, but requires a great deal of practice
and dedication.
Thanks!
Gary
Gary J. Rosenblum {ihnp4, allegra}!cmcl2!rosenblg
UNIX Systems Manager [email protected]
New York University [email protected], [email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Bob Kinne)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Touch Of Class
Date: 25 Jul 88 22:49:03 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Bob Kinne)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Chip Kozy) writes:
>It seems that after the last Olympics there was talk about breeding
>Touch Of Class to Abdulla. Does anyone know if this actually took
>place, and if so what became of the foal?
>
I recall reading that the cross had been made, but that the mare
did not carry to term. Apparently they decided not to repeat, but
I'm not sure of the reason.
Bob Kinne Optoelectronics Computing Center
UCB, Campus Box 525 VOICE (303) 492-3330
Boulder, CO 80309-0525 BITNET [email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Bob Kinne)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: moving to Massachussetts
Keywords: transportation, boarding
Date: 25 Jul 88 23:17:23 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Bob Kinne)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Susan Scheide -CFI-) writes:
>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Vicka d'Ull)
writes:
> Second, we hired a professional horse handler (a wrangler, in
> western terms) to take our station wagon, our horse trailer (with
> horses, obviously) and our gas credit cards to Massachusetts.
> After the first day, one of the horses wouldn't go back in the
> there. He was in frequent phone contact with us, so we knew when
> he arrived. The mare lay down minutes after arriving, and didn't
> get up again for three days, except to drink and urinate. I
> This man was wonderful!
> ...
Obviously the trip was very rough on the horses. Traveling in a
bumper pull station behind a "wrangler" in a station wagon who was
in a hurry is a pretty good way to abuse horses, as the horse who
had to be sedated to load and the mare who laid down for three days
can attest. This man, far from being wonderful, was incompetent and
you are fortunate there was no permanent damage done.
Most of the professional transporters use large vans with air
conditioning and TV monitors, and do a very good job, including
occasional stops for water and exercise. They drive straight
through, which eliminates the need for overnights. There are not
"horse hotels". There are stables that will board overnight horses,
but few people take the trouble to get off the interstate to find
them. If you can't or won't move the horse yourself, use a
transporter, not a self-styled "wrangler."
Bob Kinne Optoelectronics Computing Center
UCB, Campus Box 525 VOICE (303) 492-3330
Boulder, CO 80309-0525 BITNET [email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Tracy Gust)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Eye Problems
Keywords: Neigh
Date: 25 Jul 88 15:58:36 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Univ. of Ky
About two months ago my horse somehow managed to damage the cornea of one
of his eyes. Two days after it happened a qualified vet from a reputable
equine clinic examined him and verified that the damage was limited to the
cornea. After a week and a half of applying medication and several
follow-ups, the vet decided that eye would recover and that further
medicine would not be needed. But after 2 months, the eye is still misty
and the cornea scars themselves are still as white as they were 2 months
ago. My question is, should i call the vet again? Will the mist ever
clear up from his eye? I am not familiar with equine eye care and would
appreciate any advice from those who had similar experiences with their
horses.
Thanks in advance.
Tracy
--
Paul J. Linton UUCP: cbosgd!ukma!ukecc!linton
CSNET: [email protected]
BITNET: cn0001pl@UKCC
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Liz Gores)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Touch Of Class
Date: 26 Jul 88 11:38:01 GMT
Organization: Bell Communications Research, Piscataway, NJ
Posted: Tue Jul 26 07:38:01 1988
According to an article written by Abdullah's owners that I read last year,
in either Equus or Practical Horseman (probably the former), Touch of Class
was bred to Abdullah after the Olympics, and the embryo was transferred
to another mare so that Touch of Class could continue her busy showing
schedule. However apparently the transfer didn't "take". I don't recall
whether this was attempted more than once.
liz gores
piscataway, nj
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (susans)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: moving to Massachussetts
Keywords: transportation, boarding
Date: 26 Jul 88 12:21:18 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Susan Scheide -CFI-)
Organization: Consumer Financial Institute, Waltham, Mass.
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Bob Kinne)
writes:
>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Susan Scheide -CFI-)
writes:
>> Second, we hired a professional horse handler (a wrangler, in
>> This man was wonderful!
>Obviously the trip was very rough on the horses.
>you are fortunate there was no permanent damage done.
>
>There are not "horse hotels". There are stables that will board
>overnight horses,
How nice. You know everything!
>but few people take the trouble to get off the interstate to find
>them.
So obviously they don't exist because few people know
about them.
What is wrong with a stable that boards by the DAY --
need I mention that the wrangler (I like the way you
enquote it as if such people are either worthless or
non-existant) drove by night -- and I don't think six days
indicates much of a hurry.
I resent your pompous attitude, and the statement that we
abused our horses. We cared a great deal about those horses,
and despite the fact that it was tiring, not so much as a
scratch was on either one of those animals when they
arrived, on time, safely, at their new home.
Please tell us your experience with moving two PET horses
cross country.
>... not a self-styled "wrangler."
Explain. Haven't spent much time with professional horsemen,
have you. Believe me, he doesn't sit at a terminal talking
like he knows what he's doing! He spends all day, everyday
with horses -- and what the hell does "self-styled" mean?
>
>Bob Kinne Optoelectronics Computing Center
>UCB, Campus Box 525 VOICE (303) 492-3330
>Boulder, CO 80309-0525 BITNET [email protected]
Hmmmmmm. Accusations from the safety of a campus. Well
Bob, you are certainly entitled to your opinion!
--
Susan Scheide
Another friend of Bill's
"I am responsible..."
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (John B. Nagle)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: moving to Massachussetts
Keywords: transportation, boarding
Date: 27 Jul 88 15:32:48 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (John B. Nagle)
Organization: Stanford University
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Susan Scheide -CFI-) writes:
>>There are not "horse hotels". There are stables that will board
>>overnight horses,
>
> How nice. You know everything!
>
Ranchotel, on I-80 between Sacramento and San Francisco, is an
actual "horse hotel", with rooms for people and stalls for horses.
Incidentally, one good way to find overnight boarding is to try
county fairgrounds. They tend to have stabling facilities that are idle
much of the year, yet they're big enough plants that there's usually
somebody around. But you may need to bring your own bedding and feed.
John Nagle
------------------------------
From: robin%[email protected]
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 88 01:21:39 CDT
Subject: Practical Horseman, August 1988
Here is another magazine table of contents. Statements in [ ] are my
additions. Feel free to send queries if you want to know more about a
particular listed item, I'll try to assist.
Robin Crickman, [email protected]
Practical Horseman (Volume 16, number 8) August, 1988
FEATURES
Margie Goldstein. The Art of Catch Riding. Often this top hunter-jumper
rider has only a few moments of warm-up to spot problems and plan how to
show an unfamiliar mount to best advantage.
Checklist. Stocking the Stable Fridge. Supplies to keep close by and
cool for a healthy, happy horse (and owner).
My War On Flies. Notes From The Front. The combat record of one fed-up
horse owner who resolved to rid herself of flying pests.
How To Be A Horse-Show Groom For A Day. When you sign on to help a friend
at a show, you may be taking on a bigger job than you think. This preview
guide will help you prepare for your role.
Pam Baker. How To Be A Better Rider Over Fences. You can improve almost
every aspect of your horse's jumping by gaining control of your own
performance. This trainer of top-winning riders tells how to do it with a
down-to-earth system an amateur can follow. Lesson One: The Basics of
Position and Straightness.
DEPARTMENTS
Jumping Clinic with George Morris [regular feature wherein Morris criticizes
riders from photographs they send in]
Forum. What's the best way to ventilate a barn? Veterinarian Steve Berkowitz,
farm manager Larry Jenkins, and stable-designer Dennis Rusch offer their advice.
Idea Exchange. [clean a hunt cap by wrapping masking tape, sticky side
out, around your hand and brush the hat]
Saddle Ways and Bridle Whys. Dressage competitor Carol Lavell corrects
a horse that hangs on the bit; Tom Rothwell, DVM, on a method for coping
with a sore back; western trainer Clay Farrell instills respect for hunter-
hack fences.
What Do You Do? Your mare comes into heat right before a show.
Confirmation Clinic with Champ Hough [2 TB geldings and a TB mare]
------------------------------
End of Equestrian Digest
*********************
|
| 76.4 | Equestrian Digest Issue #103 | LDP::BELANGER | N1FTD 144.910/44.56.0.142 | Thu Aug 25 1988 18:35 | 166 |
| Equestrian Digest Mon 15 Aug 1988 Issue 103
Today's Topics:
Re: moving to Massachussetts
Re: moving to Massachussetts
Hauling
We Bought The Farm
mnemonic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Bob Kinne)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: moving to Massachussetts
Keywords: transportation, boarding
Date: 2 Aug 88 19:38:41 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Bob Kinne)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Susan Scheide -CFI-) writes:
>>> Numerous lines of insulting, childish prose, ending with
> Hmmmmmm. Accusations from the safety of a campus. Well
> Bob, you are certainly entitled to your opinion!
>--
> Susan Scheide
> Another friend of Bill's
For your info, I have a working farm where I raise, train, and
enjoy several horses. I have a three horse slant load, and I
have hauled horses substantial distances. My statement holds,
when a horse must be tranquilized to be loaded, and when another
horse lies down for three days after hauling, something was done
seriously wrong. And by the way, here in Colorado we know quite
a lot about "wranglers."
Have a nice day!
Bob Kinne Optoelectronics Computing Center
UCB, Campus Box 525 VOICE (303) 492-3330
Boulder, CO 80309-0525 BITNET [email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (susans)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: moving to Massachussetts
Keywords: transportation, boarding
Date: 4 Aug 88 18:53:56 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Susan Scheide -CFI-)
Organization: Consumer Financial Institute, Waltham, Mass.
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Bob Kinne)
writes:
>
>My statement holds,
>when a horse must be tranquilized to be loaded, and when another
>horse lies down for three days after hauling, something was done
>seriously wrong. And by the way, here in Colorado we know quite
>a lot about "wranglers."
>
Sorry, net folks, but e-mail didn't work:
Bob, I know I didn't make it clear, but the horse that
was tranquilized was routinely drugged for teeth floating,
vet. exams, and worming. He was one of those "killer" horses
this group had fun discussing recently.
As for the horse that lay down for three days -- WHAT IS YOUR
PROBLEM? She was fine: she ate, she drank, but she was tired
from standing for six days. No problem, as far as I can see.
No one tried to get her NOT to lie down either. You see, I
was still in California.
If you profess to know about wranglers, why do you imply there
is no such word (the very act of enquoting it makes me believe
you think I made it up) or vocation?
--
Susan Scheide
Another friend of Bill's
"I am responsible..."
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Lisa Kingston)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Hauling
Date: 8 Aug 88 17:50:42 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Lisa Kingston)
Distribution: usa
Organization: FileNet Corp., Costa Mesa, CA
Okay, I thought I was going to stay out of this since it seemed to be
a personal argument, but I can't resist. Besides, there hasn't been
much to read in this group lately.
One thing I think you guys are forgetting is the health/previous lifestyle
of the horses themselves. I know if one of our horses were hauled on a
long trip then layed down for three days afterwards, I would suspect
mistreatment and abuse. They are used to being trailered and hauled
distances. But if a horse isn't accustomed to such an ordeal, it can
be exhausting. Have you ever ridden in the back of a trailer?? It
should be a requirement before you load an animal in that box and sling
them around the highways for a few hours. It's miserable. And
tiring. And hot. And noisy. And I'm sure that it takes awhile for
a horse to figure out how to stand comfortably.
I would like to think it's the wrangler's fault. Some of them aren't
so hot. I had experience with one, and while their methods were
hardly elegant or sophisticated, the horses were well-taken care of.
I'm sure that this doesn't hold true for all wranglers though.
Lisa
------------------------------
From: robin%[email protected]
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 88 01:50:45 CDT
Subject: We Bought The Farm
Well, Ken, we finally found our horses a home. We purchased a 103 acre farm
in the western Wisconsin town of Elmwood (actually in the township 3 miles
west of town). The place has 50 acres now planted in soybeans. We'll be
putting some in hay and some in pasture. The rest is forested valley and
hill. There is a producing limestone quarry as well. The buildings are
a six bedroom farmhouse (plenty of space for Digest friends who might be
visiting in our area), a 32 x 48 dairy barn (know anybody who wants to buy
a barn cleaner or cow stanchions?), a machine shed and a two car garage.
We are in process of moving our household effects now. We have to get
some fence erected in order to move the horses. As soon as we get ourselves
moved we start on getting the horses moved. It looks like a great deal of
work ahead of us, but it will be home and we are really excited about having
the horses distance from us measured in tens of feet instead of tens of miles.
We'll probably have a few adventures to tell the Digest crew as we progress;
for now its back to putting stuff into boxes.
Robin Crickman [email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Herbert Kanner)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: mnemonic
Keywords: dressage
Date: 15 Aug 88 17:30:53 GMT
Organization: Development Systems Group, Apple Computer
I recently heard a cute mnemonic for the principal points around the
periphery of a dressage court:
All King Edward's Horses Can Move Bloody Fast.
Herb Kanner
Apple Computer, Inc.
{idi, ios, nsc}!apple!kanner
[email protected]
------------------------------
End of Equestrian Digest
*********************
|
| 76.5 | Equestrian Digest Issue #104 | LDP::BELANGER | N1FTD 144.910/44.56.0.142 | Fri Aug 26 1988 17:54 | 384 |
| Equestrian Digest Thu 18 Aug 1988 Issue 104
Today's Topics:
Horses and Bicycles
Re: Horses and Bicycles
Re: Horses and Bicycles
Re: Horses and Bicycles
Re: Horses and Bicycles
Re: Horses and Bicycles
Re: Horses and Bicycles
Re: Horses and Bicycles
Re: Horses and Bicycles
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Kathryn L.Smith)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Horses and Bicycles
Keywords: road hazards
Date: 16 Aug 88 17:26:01 GMT
Organization: MIT Lincoln Laboratory, Lexington, MA
I ran into a situation recently that had never occured to me as a
potential trail hazard, so I'm posting this to make other people aware of
the problem. I'm well aware of the hazards of riding a horse along a road,
even one not heavily traveled, as my horse is an Arabian, who is sometimes
rather nervous, although he has been noticably mellowing over the past year
as he gets more used to me, and also older (he's 8 now). Most of the time
he's pretty good about things like large trucks, motorcycles, and even
snowmobiles encountered in the woods in winter.
A couple of weeks ago a friend and I were riding our horses back
along the road from taking a riding lesson (the stable is about 1/4 mile
away), and since we and they were fairly tired, just walking along and
not paying a whole lot of attention. As we were going down a moderately
long, though not terribly steep hill, someone on a bicycle came whizzing
down the hill by us at what must have been about 30 MPH. (This is judging
from what my friend had to say -- I never got to see him). Since bicycles
make very little noise, the first my horse knew of its presence was seeing
something coming up on him fast from almost immediately behind out of the
corner of his eye. He did the predictable thing and jumped forward. Since
I wasn't expecting him to do anything strange, off I went.
I'm cross-posting this to rec.bicycles because I expect that most
cyclists aren't going to think of themselves as potentially frightening to a
horse, and a lot of the areas that are good for trail riding overlap with
good cycling areas. People tend to think of loud noises frightening horses,
so therefore a bicycle should be OK, but in this case, a motorcycle or
moped would have been preferable. He would have heard the it coming, and
known something was there before it was right behind him, and even if he
had been somewhat frightened by the noise, I would have been expecting the
possibility, and probably would have managed to keep my seat. So, if you
see horses on the road ahead when cycling, give them the same space you
would if you were driving a car, or at least slow down and say hello before
you get too close so they and their riders will know you're there. This
is for your safety as well as theirs. A frightened horse often kicks, and
they can kick sideways almost as well as straight out behind.
The think that really annoyed me about this incident was that the
cyclist who caused it didn't even stop. I wasn't seriously hurt, though I
did see stars and have the wind knocked out of me for a few minutes, but
there is no way that the person on the bicycle could have know I was alright.
If Stacatto had put his feet down a few inches left or right, I'd probably
still be in the hospital. As it was, my friend was sure I must have broken
something from looking at the way I landed. Unfortunately she was too busy
staying on her horse to do more than yell after the person on the bicycle.
Fortunately, the oncoming cars were more responsible, and stopped to block
traffic while we tried to catch my horse, who had gotten even more frightened
when I fell off. If the person had stopped, I wouldn't have been particularly
angry. These things happen occasionally. As it is though, I would like to
thrown the book at them for just leaving, not to mention letting Stacatto do
a tap dance on their bicycle.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kathryn L. Smith UUCP: ...ll-xn!kathy I didn't do it,
MIT Lincoln Laboratories ARPANET: [email protected] and I can justify
Lexington, MA it all anyway.
------------------------------
From: richk@humpback (Richard Korry)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Keywords: road hazards
Date: 16 Aug 88 18:49:02 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Richard Korry)
Organization: U of Washington, CSCI, Seattle
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Kathryn L.Smith) writes:
> ... she was thrown by her horse when it was surprised by a cyclist zooming
> down a hill ...
Thanks for this posting, it will hopefully make folks more aware of the
effect a bicycle can have on other animals. The effect is has on dogs has
been well documented. I had a different sort of encounter when one day I
was going up a hill (slowly) and a line of horses were walking on the
shoulder against traffic, thus on my side of the road. As I approached I
shied towards the center line (luckily this was a lightly traveled road)
which was fortunate since the lead horse reared and kicked in my direction
which then caused some of the others to get excited too. I headed over to
the other shoulder and sprinted to get by. So, equestrians, remember that
to a cyclist, your horse can be very intimidating and appears dangerous
even if you know that he/she is very gentle, etc..
rich
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Joel B Levin)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Keywords: road hazards
Date: 16 Aug 88 20:10:07 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Joel B Levin)
Organization: BBN Communications Corporation
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Richard Korry)
writes:
(In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Kathryn L.Smith) writes:
(> ... she was thrown by her horse when it was surprised by a cyclist zooming
(> down a hill ...
( . . . So, equestrians, remember that
(to a cyclist, your horse can be very intimidating and appears dangerous
(even if you know that he/she is very gentle, etc..
( rich
This is very true, and for excellent reasons: no matter how well
intentioned the rider or how well trained the horse, anything might
happen and it is wise for any motorist, cyclist, or pedestrian (or any
other rider, but she already know this!) to keep reasonably clear of
any horse encountered on the road. You always have complete control
of your mode of transport (or you should), while the rider is at best
maintaining a fragile mode of cooperation with a separate being with
its own mind which is largely less intelligent and easily overruled by
instinctive behavior. All the rider asks is that non-riders (and
other riders) please act accordingly: don't do anything to startle the
horse (and the rider will be glad to help you understand what
startles) and don't come too close without invitation from the rider.
And for your own safety, keep your distance.
Horses generally share rights to public ways; they are granted right
of way in most cases for reasons of common sense, as sailboats are
granted right of way: they are subject to the whim of forces beyond
their operators' control.
/JBL
PS. I like the Massachusetts rule still on the books (as I have heard
it--I haven't actually read the relevant law): At the direction of
a rider or (carriage) driver, the operator of a motor vehicle is
required to (a) stop or (b) shut off the motor or (c) disassemble
the vehicle or (d) bury the parts, as necessary, until the horse
has passed. Like I said, I haven't actually seen this, and it's
hard enough to get drivers even to slow down sometimes or to get
law enforcement help for chronic cases.
UUCP: {backbone}!bbn!levin USPS: BBN Communications Corporation
ARPA: [email protected] 150 CambridgePark Drive
POTS: (617) 873-3463 Cambridge, MA 02140
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Rob Bernardo)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Keywords: road hazards
Date: 17 Aug 88 01:56:51 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Rob Bernardo)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Kathryn L.Smith) writes:
+ I ran into a situation recently that had never occured to me as a
+potential trail hazard,
+... A couple of weeks ago a friend and I were riding our horses back
+along the road from taking a riding lesson
+...
+ As we were going down a moderately
+long, though not terribly steep hill, someone on a bicycle came whizzing
+down the hill by us at what must have been about 30 MPH. ...
+ Since bicycles
+make very little noise, the first my horse knew of its presence was seeing
+something coming up on him fast from almost immediately behind out of the
+corner of his eye. He did the predictable thing and jumped forward. Since
+I wasn't expecting him to do anything strange, off I went.
+... If the person had stopped, I wouldn't have been particularly
+angry.
Thank you for this posting. A word to the wise is sufficient.
I had a practically identical experience, 'cept that I was a novice
rider going down a steep hill with blind turns on a green-broke horse.
Although I didn't fall of, I used strong enough language to make a
sailor blush (and to make the second bicyclist of the pair practically
tiptoe by me). (Since then I think my mare has forgotten even how to
crow hop!)
+ People tend to think of loud noises frightening horses,
+so therefore a bicycle should be OK, but in this case, a motorcycle or
+moped would have been preferable. He would have heard the it coming, and
My horse wasn't scared once when a big 18 wheeler came up from behind because
she knew what was coming.
--
Rob Bernardo, Pacific Bell UNIX Small Bus. Systems Development & Maintenance
Email: ...![backbone]!pacbell!rob OR [email protected]
Office: (415) 823-2417 Room 4E750A, San Ramon Valley Administrative Center
Residence: (415) 827-4301 R Bar JB, Concord, California
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (John B. Nagle)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Keywords: road hazards
Date: 17 Aug 88 06:20:03 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (John B. Nagle)
Organization: Stanford University
Road bicycles aren't so bad; it's the trail bikes that cause real
trouble. A sport that originated in Marin, trail biking has caused some
trouble up there, and several horse/bicycle collisions were reported a
few years back. But things seem to have quieted down as the novelty
of trail bikes wore off and law enforcement activity increased. We
went through the same thing a decade ago when lightweight offroad
motorcycles first became cheap.
John Nagle
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Jonathan Gingerich)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Keywords: road hazards
Date: 18 Aug 88 00:34:41 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Jonathan Gingerich)
Distribution: na
Organization: Unisys Santa Monica
Kathryn,
some comments about your accident. First, I believe strongly not only in
riding correctly, but courteously. I approach horses carefully and I think
giving vocal warning is a good idea. Many cyclists are ignorant of their
responsibilities and are a danger to other cyclists as much as anyone. And
I sympathize with your hurt.
That being said, however, based on your description, I question whether
the accident was caused by the cyclist. Based on a quick skimming of a
very out of date UVCA, it appears that the only obligation on the part of the
cyclist was to overtake you with a safe clearance. That, of course, is very
open to judgement, but I don't think it can be interpreted as a distance
guarenteed not to spook your hourse. (Which is not to say he didn't pass too
close.)
On the other hand you were "tired", "not paying a whole lot of attention",
and unaware of overtaking traffic, while on a horse you knew to be
"sometimes rather nervous" and who "did the predictable thing" for which
you were not prepared, and fell.
Also you seem to to suggest at 30mpg the cyclist was going too fast. This
speed is easily achieved on a moderate hill, and "whizzing" is what cycling
is all about. It is as unreasonable to insist that cyclist slow down in the
presence of a horse (except as required by current law) as it is to insist
that riders walk their horses along roads to control them.
Finally to give him the benefit of the doubt, the cyclist may have been
unaware that he was involved in an accident.
This kind of discussion always sound mean-spirited in print. Please note
that I did not see the accident; If I had I might be far less forgiving of
the cyclist. I don't intend to make judgements, only to discuss the issue
from another point of view.
Jon. Gingerich
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (daniel mocsny)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Summary: livestock stories
Keywords: road hazards
Date: 17 Aug 88 04:03:18 GMT
Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati, College of Engg.
In article <[email protected]>, richk@humpback (Richard Korry)
writes:
> In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Kathryn L.Smith) writes:
> > ... she was thrown by her horse when it was surprised by a cyclist zooming
> > down a hill ...
>
> Thanks for this posting, it will hopefully make folks more aware of the
> effect a bicycle can have on other animals. The effect is has on dogs has
One of my favorite descents is KY 237 into the Ohio valley near my home.
Steep grade (~13%), a couple of sweeping turns, great G's at the bottom
(nicely banked :-) ). Usually the area is pretty deserted, and taking the
descent with no brakes gets you over 45 mph easily. I am a little wary on
the way down, though, because occasionally obstructions are waiting out
in the road. Somebody might be backing a pickup out of a field, or you
might spot a couple of equestrians out in the road. The day I saw the horses,
fortunately I had time to slow down before I got to them. Theriders saw
me, the horses were cool, the hooves stayed on the pavement, and things
were fine.
A mile from the spot, on another ride, I met up with a large bull in the
middle of the road. He had nice horns. He watched me coming, I slowed down
considerably and had my doubts...Since he didn't seem inclined to do
anything drastic, I crept by him. As soon as I was clear, I executed a
sprint worthy of a TDF points champion.
On another occasion, I almost got plastered by a deer bolting across
the road about three feet in front of me. On yet another occasion, a
very large bird flew into the side of my head at considerable relative
velocity. I had my helmet on, but the blow nearly took me off the bike.
And my helmet saved me another time from some maniacal diving bird. Had
I been helmet-less, it would have lacerated me severely.
Does Spike Bike carry surface-to-air missiles?
Dan Mocsny, u. of cincinnati.
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Mary Ann Pike)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Date: 18 Aug 88 13:59:55 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Mary Ann Pike)
Organization: Carnegie-Mellon University, CS/RI
Keywords:
Jon Gingerich comments that "it is as unreasonable to insist that cyclist
slow down in the presence of a horse as it is to insist that riders walk
their horses along roads to control them". If a horse is nervous around
normal road traffic, it may pose a hazard and the rider SHOULD walk it out
of courtesy to the motorists. In the same vein, cyclists should realize
that they come up very quickly and quitely (when overtaking cars as well
as horses) and they SHOULD slow down in the presence of a large and powerful
animal that MAY be easily startled. And bicycles can startle even the most
road-safe horses when they approach from the rear, since they make no noise.
It is NEVER unreasonable to have some consideration for fellow travelers.
Mary Ann Pike
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Joel B Levin)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Date: 18 Aug 88 16:01:47 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Joel B Levin)
Organization: BBN Communications Corporation
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Mary Ann Pike)
writes:
:Jon Gingerich comments that "it is as unreasonable to insist that
:cyclist slow down in the presence of a horse as it is to insist that
:riders walk their horses along roads to control them". If a horse is
:nervous around normal road traffic, it may pose a hazard and the rider
:SHOULD walk it out of courtesy to the motorists. . .
If the horse becomes nervous due to traffic conditions, I will often
for my own safety get off and walk him till the conditions are gone or
he has calmed down. If normal conditions upset the horse that much, I
don't even want to take him on the road until I have had a chance to
accustom him to quieter than normal conditions.
While I won't claim any expertise, I do have some experience in this.
If you know the Boston suburbs, think about leading a group of riders
across Route 2 in Lincoln (a 4-lane highway) about a half mile west of
the traffic light at Tracey's corner (or whatever they call it these
days).
/JBL
UUCP: {backbone}!bbn!levin USPS: BBN Communications Corporation
ARPA: [email protected] 150 CambridgePark Drive
POTS: (617) 873-3463 Cambridge, MA 02140
------------------------------
End of Equestrian Digest
*********************
|
| 76.6 | Equestrian Digest Issue #105 | LDP::BELANGER | N1FTD 144.910/44.56.0.142 | Fri Aug 26 1988 17:56 | 583 |
| Equestrian Digest Mon 22 Aug 1988 Issue 105
Today's Topic:
Re: Horses and Bicycles (15 messages)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Ruth Miller)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Date: 18 Aug 88 21:03:23 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Ruth Miller)
Organization: UR Dept. of Electrical Engg, Rochester NY 14627
I have ridden my bike past horses at home (Chester Co, PA)--very carefully
because I know horses shy easily. They did anyway--A bike was a novel
experience for them apparently. I second the motion to be very cautious
when approaching Horses on a bike!
--Ruth Miller
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Debbie Gesimondo)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Date: 18 Aug 88 15:43:00 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Apollo Computer, Chelmsford, Mass.
>So, equestrians, remember that
>to a cyclist, your horse can be very intimidating and appears dangerous
>even if you know that he/she is very gentle, etc..
so, cyclists, remember that to an equestrian, your bike can be
very intimidating and appears dangerous even if you know that it
is very gentle, etc...
come on guys, sheesh. some of you are more worried about getting
kicked by a horse than by the probability of the person on the
horse getting thrown. or the possibilty of the horse bolting
and perhaps getting injured. i ride both horses and my trail
bike through the blue hills in milton. in my experience horses,
for some reason have been more frightened by bikes than by cars
and motorcycles. perhaps it's because, as Kathryn wrote, that
they can hear the motor before seeing the vehicle.
i think the best thing to do when encountering a horse and rider,
is to get out of the way and stop your bike. as Joel said, you
the cyclist have complete control over your bike but the equestrian
has less control over the mind of her horse.
"no lightning, i meant BOTH of us over the water hazard, not just
me!" :-)
/debbie g.
### {mit-erl,yale,uw-beaver}!apollo!debbieg ###
### [email protected] ###
### [email protected] ###
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Steve Williams)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Keywords: road hazards
Date: 18 Aug 88 04:52:36 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Steve Williams)
Organization: Tandem Computers, Austin, TX
Summary:
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Kathryn L.Smith) writes:
>
> (some mostly sensible stuff about cyclist behavior around horses....)
Since I often ride my off-road bike in an area near my home that's also
used by horse riders (for the record, we're all trespassing on some
so-called "Chapter 11" land), I've developed a drill that's triggered
by the sight or smell of horses. About half the time I smell them before
I hear or see them, a very helpful feature of a well-exercised horse. If
we're going to be passing closely (on the same trail or road), I hop
off my admittedly *noisy* bike and stand fairly still, talking in friendly
tones to the riders so they'll notice me w/o being startled themselves.
I've run across one or two situations where a horse didn't spook but refused
to budge until I either laid down my bike, took off my bright yellow helmet,
or both.
I do this not only out of courtesy but because I don't relish running head
on into a frightened horse on a narrow trail with no way out.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Williams USENET: ...!cs.utexas.edu!halley!steve
Tandem Computers TELE: 512-244-8252
14231 Tandem Blvd.
Austin, Texas 78728
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Rob Bernardo)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Keywords: road hazards
Date: 19 Aug 88 02:55:15 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Rob Bernardo)
Distribution: na
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Jonathan
Gingerich) writes:
+That being said, however, based on your description, I question whether
+the accident was caused by the cyclist. Based on a quick skimming of a
+very out of date UVCA, it appears that the only obligation on the part of the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
+cyclist was to overtake you with a safe clearance. That, of course, is very
+open to judgement, but I don't think it can be interpreted as a distance
+guarenteed not to spook your hourse. (Which is not to say he didn't pass too
+close.)
Mary Ann Pike commented well on the above. I'd just like to add that
this issue isn't a matter of legal obligation. (The USENET is not a court.)
It's simply a matter of consideration.
--
Rob Bernardo, Pacific Bell UNIX Small Bus. Systems Development & Maintenance
Email: ...![backbone]!pacbell!rob OR [email protected]
Office: (415) 823-2417 Room 4E750A, San Ramon Valley Administrative Center
Residence: (415) 827-4301 R Bar JB, Concord, California
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Seth I Katz)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Keywords: road hazards
Date: 18 Aug 88 17:35:53 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Seth I Katz)
Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc.
chatterchatterchatter<[email protected]>[email protected] (John B. Nagle):
|
| Road bicycles aren't so bad; it's the trail bikes that cause real
| trouble. A sport that originated in Marin, trail biking has caused some
| trouble up there, and several horse/bicycle collisions were reported a
| few years back. But things seem to have quieted down as the novelty
| of trail bikes wore off and law enforcement activity increased. We
| went through the same thing a decade ago when lightweight offroad
| motorcycles first became cheap.
Allow me to point out a pinhead when I see one.
"trail bikes" don't "cause real trouble", irresponsible riders do.
Also, you can keep your increased law enforcement. Few are the laws
that take the cyclist's point of view into consideration, and
few are the cops that go where mountain bikers go.
I've encountered horses, and bicycles pose no threat to them as long
as the cyclist is aware of what is going on.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 88 13:34:14 EDT
From: Paulette Jones <[email protected]>
Subject: Horses and Road Hazards
I read with interest the articles about horses and
bicycles. I couldn't help but let you know what we
have to contend with. The barn where I have kept my
horse for 10 years is on an Army base. Our riding
hazards vary from 200 troups jogging and chanting
to M-60 tanks with escort vehicles to helicopters at
300 feet over your head to intermittent and with
completely no warning steam leaks from pipes along
roads. But the one that sent the whole herd
stampeding in the pasture was a 20-ft tall statue
of the National Guard Minuteman on the back of a
2-1/2 ton truck painted like Santa Claus and yelling
HO HO HO from a loud speaker.
Paulette
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Ken Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Date: 19 Aug 88 18:29:18 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Ken Lee)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Daisy Systems Corp., Mountain View, Ca.
While using caution when approaching a horse is a good idea, asking
bicyclists to do it is just like asking motorists to use caution when
approaching a bicyclist. Good idea or not, there are just too many
people to educate. Equestrians should realize this and take precautions
in dangerous areas, just as cyclists have learned to take precautions in
heavy traffic. If you can't take adequate precautions, you don't belong
there - whether you're riding a horse or a bicycle.
Sorry to be pessimistic, but that's life in America.
Ken
--
uucp: {ames!atari, ucbvax!imagen, nsc, pyramid, uunet}!daisy!klee
arpanet: [email protected]
Don't applaud, just throw money.
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Joel B Levin)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Date: 19 Aug 88 21:21:11 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Joel B Levin)
Distribution: usa
Organization: BBN Communications Corporation
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Ken Lee) writes:
> . . . . Equestrians should realize this and take precautions
>in dangerous areas, just as cyclists have learned to take precautions in
>heavy traffic. If you can't take adequate precautions, you don't belong
>there - whether you're riding a horse or a bicycle.
Except that if you have to share a public road, someday someone will
come up behind you or around a curve on a dead quiet bicycle and your
horse will startle before you can do anything about it.
The best you can do, in addition to trying to pay maximum attention to
everything around you at all times is to stay relaxed in the saddle
and be ready for anything. And try to educate that cyclist if you can
so he or she doesn't do that again to someone else.
>Sorry to be pessimistic, but that's life in America.
Yes.
/JBL
UUCP: {backbone}!bbn!levin USPS: BBN Communications Corporation
ARPA: [email protected] 150 CambridgePark Drive
POTS: (617) 873-3463 Cambridge, MA 02140
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Lawrence J. Cler)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Keywords: road hazards
Date: 18 Aug 88 14:35:50 GMT
Organization: AT&T, Denver, CO
<deleted long description of incident with horse and bicycle>
As the owner of a horse stable and an active bicyclist I would
like to second Kathy's comments and add a couple of others.
When I approach a horse on a bicycle, I decrease my speed and ride
as far away (to the side of) from the horse(s) as possible. Horses
have a strange dual monocular vision system, and approaching them
this way allows you to enter their periferal vision as early as
possible.
When horses are "broke" for the road, they become accustomed to
cars, trucks, tractors, etc., but typically not bicycles. Bicycles
whether moving or not, are definitely scarey things at our stables.
But so are baby strolers, etc.
I highly recomend that when getting your horse accustomed to the road,
that you enlist the help of a cyclist friend to get your horse used to
bicycles as well.
By the same token, I recomend that you get some driving friends to
help you get used to horns blaring and objects being thrown from cars.
BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN DOING THIS. Start slowly, (in the same way that
one would train a horse to hunt/shoot from their back), and work to
the point where they can honk their horn right beside your horse.
To make this work, you will have to be a "strong" aggresive rider. If
your horse learns that it can duck out you will have a bigger problem.
If you don't feel like you are up to it, enlist help.
Having said that, I want to point out that horses should have the
right-of-way over both cars and bicyclists. Autos should not sound
their horns within 500 feet of a horse. Both are law in some places
(Illinois for sure, large Amish population in East-central part of
the state). Not a law in Colorado, a motorist may sound their loudest
horn immediately behind a horse with legal, if not civil impunity.
In the particular incident described, both the horse and bicycle riders
are at fault. The cyclist should have slowed (no fun, but the safe
thing to do), should have gone far to the right of the horse, and should
have stopped. Kathy should have been riding more alert and more in
control. However, the times I have been dumped mostly occurred when
doing the same thing. Just wanted to get off my high horse:-).
Regards,
Larry Cler
att!drutx!ljc
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Debbie's FDM Group)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Date: 20 Aug 88 02:42:20 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Jonathan Gingerich)
Distribution: na
Organization: Unisys - System Development Group, Santa Monica
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Mary Ann Pike)
writes:
>Jon Gingerich comments that "it is as unreasonable to insist that
>cyclist slow down in the presence of a horse [(except as required by
>law)] as it is to insist that riders walk their horses along roads to
>control them". If a horse is nervous around normal road traffic, it
>may pose a hazard and the rider SHOULD walk it out of courtesy to the
>motorists. In the same vein, cyclists should realize that they come up
>very quickly and quitely (when overtaking cars as well as horses) and
>they SHOULD slow down in the presence of a large and powerful animal
>that MAY be easily startled. And bicycles can startle even the most
>road-safe horses when they approach from the rear, since they make no
>noise. It is NEVER unreasonable to have some consideration for fellow
>travelers.
>
>Mary Ann Pike
Mary, you have made the classic mistake of a non-cyclist talking about
cyclists. You assume we are second-class vehicles. We ARE "normal road
traffic" and while a horse who shies at bikes may be "motorist-safe" he
certainly isn't "road-safe"! By your arguments then, equestrians should
always walk their horses along roads. Personally I think this is rather
unreasonable.
I do believe in courtesy, and I will give wide berth, make noises, and
where it's not a problem I will even slow down. But, if you ask me
to always slow down, then you are asking me to forgo my pleasures on the
road so that you can partake of yours, and it is no longer a question of
consideration, but one of rights, and the law quite sensibly says that
the person who brings the horse onto the road is the person who must
make the exceptions for the behavior of the animal.
Jon. Gingerich
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Joyce Andrews)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Date: 20 Aug 88 11:43:21 GMT
Organization: AT&T Consumer Products, Indianapolis
>
> I ran into a situation recently that had never occured to me as a
> potential trail hazard, so I'm posting this to make other people aware of
> the problem. I'm well aware of the hazards of riding a horse along a road,
>.........................................As we were going down a moderately
> long, though not terribly steep hill, someone on a bicycle came whizzing
> down the hill by us at what must have been about 30 MPH. (This is judging
It's funny what will freak out some horses may not freak out
others. I was trail riding in East Fork Park, east of
Cincinnati, one day, when a hiker with a TALLLLLLL backpack came
around the trail bend. My horse (TB, old, wise, long ridden on
the trail) went nuts. I'm sure he had been reading about
Bigfoot...(the hiker had a LOT of facial hair).
I had to get OFF the horse (and with a 17h horse, that's non
trivial because you have to get back ON) to calm him. The hiker
sneered.
I'm sure it was the strange shape. Carnaby Street wasn't in the
habit of shying from PEOPLE, for heaven's sake (unless they were
TRACK people). Now your horse will think of bicycles as bad
things that go whizzing by and make you fall off and scare him.
And then lots of people chase him. Maybe you'd better
desensitize him..have friends go by on bikes (I'm not
kidding...this could cause a problem later). Pat him a lot as
they go by, but don't act nervous. Don't break anything if he
shies again, though.
--
Joyce Andrews King
ihnp4!inuxd!jla
AT&T, Indianapolis
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Rob Bernardo)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Date: 20 Aug 88 09:39:55 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Rob Bernardo)
Organization: Pacific * Bell, San Ramon, CA
In article <[email protected]> [email protected]
(Jonathan Gingerich) writes:
+But when you suggest I [on bicycle] always slow down
+[when approaching a horse],
+you are no longer asking for consideration, but asking that I give up my
+pleasures on the road so that you can enjoy yours.
Huh? Why's that? I think she's asking that you give up the pleasures
of the road so she is not in a dangerous situation.
+ The question becomes
+one not of courtesy, but of rights,
Huh? Sure is a matter of courtesy (whether or not it's a matter of
rights as well).
+the person who brings the horse onto the road is the person
+who must be prepared to deal with its special problems.
Do you mean people like you?
--
Rob Bernardo, Pacific Bell UNIX Small Bus. Systems Development & Maintenance
Email: ...![backbone]!pacbell!rob OR [email protected]
Office: (415) 823-2417 Room 4E750A, San Ramon Valley Administrative Center
Residence: (415) 827-4301 R Bar JB, Concord, California
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (John Unruh, NY9R)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Summary: Hikers and Horses
Date: 20 Aug 88 19:29:18 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Naperville, Illinois
I have met horses when backpacking several times. The results were
always the same. The horses went crazy. This happened even with
strings of horses run by back country outfitters who have to see
hikers frequently. I have found the best thing to do is take off the
pack and get off the trail on the downhill side. The horses still
usually go nuts, but at least they run up the hill where they will be
easier to chase down. If horses came through all the time (like every
10 minutes) I probably wouldn't take my pack off anymore, but I usually
only see them three or four times a week in the back country. The hiker
may have sneered because he doesn't appreciate how much the horses tear
up the trail, especailly near springs where there is running water.
Nobody likes hiking through 6" deep muck.
--
John Unruh
AT&T-Bell Laboratories
ihnp4!ihlpx!jdu
(312)979-6765
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Denes Zsolnay)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Date: 20 Aug 88 22:13:40 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Denes Zsolnay)
Distribution: na
Organization: TRW Inc., Redondo Beach, CA
In article <[email protected]> [email protected]
(Jonathan Gingerich) writes:
>In article <[email protected]> [email protected]
(Mary Ann Pike) writes:
>>Jon Gingerich comments that "it is as unreasonable to insist that
>>cyclist slow down in the presence of a horse [(except as required by
>>law)] as it is to insist that riders walk their horses along roads to
>>control them". If a horse is nervous around normal road traffic, it
>>may pose a hazard and the rider SHOULD walk it out of courtesy to the
>>motorists. In the same vein, cyclists should realize that they come up
>>very quickly and quitely (when overtaking cars as well as horses) and
>>they SHOULD slow down in the presence of a large and powerful animal
>>that MAY be easily startled. And bicycles can startle even the most
>>road-safe horses when they approach from the rear, since they make no
>>noise. It is NEVER unreasonable to have some consideration for fellow
>>travelers.
>>
>>Mary Ann Pike
>
>Mary, you have made the classic mistake of a non-cyclist talking about
>cyclists. You assume we are second-class vehicles. We ARE "normal road
>traffic" and while a horse who shies at bikes may be "motorist-safe" he
>certainly isn't "road-safe"! By your arguments then, equestrians should
>always walk their horses along roads. Personally I think this is rather
>unreasonable.
>I do believe in courtesy, and I will give wide berth, make noises, and
>where it's not a problem I will even slow down. But, if you ask me
>to always slow down, then you are asking me to forgo my pleasures on the
>road so that you can partake of yours, and it is no longer a question of
>consideration, but one of rights, and the law quite sensibly says that
>the person who brings the horse onto the road is the person who must
>make the exceptions for the behavior of the animal.
>
>Jon. Gingerich
This is what to do if you're the victim of an inconsiderate bicyclist:
1) Gather up the pieces.
2) Go back to the barn.
3) Get the doolie and the four horse.
4) While thinking, "Nobody messes with my horse," teach the bastard
some humility.
(For any bicylists who may read this, and not understand step 3, it's the
biggest damn thing that ever blew you off a country road.)
Remember, horsemen, that we have the same advantage over the bikers that
they have over the cars: enthusiasm. And bicyclists: we love our mounts.
MORE than you love bikes.
For the record, if I may quote from the California Vehicle Code:
21759. The driver of any vehicle [and thanks, Jon, for reminding us that
bicycles are in fact vehicles in the eyes of the law] approaching any
horse drawn vehicle, any ridden animal, or any livestock shall exercise
proper control of his vehicle and shall reduce speed or stop as may
appear necessary or as may be signalled or otherwise requested by any
person driving, riding or in charge of the animal or livestock in order
to avoid frightening and to safeguard the animal or livestock and to
insure the safety of any person driving or riding the animal or in charge
of the livestock.
Crystal clear. Attention California bikers: I hereby formally request that
you stop for all horses. Got you. It could be me.
Denes Zsolnay
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Joyce Andrews)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles Now, Hikers
Date: 21 Aug 88 14:03:18 GMT
Organization: AT&T Consumer Products, Indianapolis
> .... The hiker
> may have sneered because he doesn't appreciate how much the horses tear
> up the trail, especailly near springs where there is running water.
> Nobody likes hiking through 6" deep muck.
> --
> John Unruh
> AT&T-Bell Laboratories
> ihnp4!ihlpx!jdu
> (312)979-6765
Hi John,
Sorry, but I have to come back. These trails were built by
horsemen for horsemen. They are the BRIDLE trails. They are
marked BRIDLE trails. They are used for endurance trials (I
guess that makes them trial trails, tee hee). So the hiker had
no cause to sneer. He was the visitor.
But you had no way of knowing that, and it brings up a subject
that may put this to rest....if we are going to share the
mountains, the oceans, the roads, we must take into consideration
the fact that others have different interests. If we are going
to gallop our horses in the surf, we can't be angry if some
prehistoric-monster-looking SCUBA diver emerges from the surf and
turns our steed into a sled (YOU STUPID WATER-ON-THE-BRAIN
S.O.B.!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING COMING UP FOR A BREATH IN FRONT OF
MY HORSE!!!). If we are going hiking, we can't get all bent out
shape over the horse holes. And if we are going to ride our horses
on the road, we must be ready to share that road with anything
that wants to be there, too.
The world has gotten too small for all of us to have a corner of
our own. I'm sure the cyclist didn't know horses, nor did this
particular backpacker. And I guess, sigh, I'm going to have to
learn to live with jet skis.
(This message brought to you from the Florida Keys by the
miracle of modern communication.)
--
Joyce Andrews King
ihnp4!inuxd!jla
AT&T, Indianapolis
------------------------------
End of Equestrian Digest
*********************
|
| 76.7 | Equestrian Digest Issue #106 | LDP::BELANGER | N1FTD 144.910/44.56.0.142 | Fri Aug 26 1988 17:58 | 256 |
| Equestrian Digest Tue 23 Aug 1988 Issue 106
Today's Topics:
Re: Horses and Bicycles
Horses in Maryland
Re: Horses and Bicycles
Advanced Training?
Horses and Divers
HORSES & HAZARDS
intro
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Peter Barbee)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles,rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Date: 22 Aug 88 23:33:38 GMT
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Debbie Gesimondo)
writes:
>come on guys, sheesh. some of you are more worried about getting
>kicked by a horse than by the probability of the person on the
>horse getting thrown. or the possibilty of the horse bolting
>and perhaps getting injured.
Yes Debbie, you're right.
Now having read about the possiblity of horses being scared of me I
can take precautions but I don't think it is reasonable for you to
expect me stop my bike, afterall it's your horse that is scared
and I have absolutely no control over it. Do you expect automobiles
to stop? For how long?
Peter B
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Aug 88 22:11:06 EDT
From: marc%[email protected]
Subject: Horses in Maryland
Well... Now that we have all heard lots and lots about bikes and horses and
how horses are afraid of bikes and how bikes are afraid of horses and how
most people are afraid of horses and how horses are a major source of
methane... I have a new and interesting topic...
Lets try how my horse is better than your horse! Just kidding.
I have a question. I have a job interview at the U of Maryland. U of M is
located in College Park which is just outside of D.C. Is anybody familiar
with the area? Anyone know what type of horse country it is? How much would
board cost and how far away do I have to get from D.C. before I can do som�
serious trail riding?
--
\///
_ _
( Q Q )
---,,,,-------U-------,,,,---
Marc Herniter marc%[email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Jonathan Gingerich)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Date: 22 Aug 88 22:32:38 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Jonathan Gingerich)
Organization: Unisys Santa Monica
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Rob Bernardo)
writes:
>In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Jonathan
Gingerich) writes:
>+But when you suggest I [on bicycle] always slow down
>+[when approaching a horse],
>+you are no longer asking for consideration, but asking that I give up my
>+pleasures on the road so that you can enjoy yours.
>
>Huh? Why's that? I think she's asking that you give up the pleasures
>of the road so she is not in a dangerous situation.
She always has the option of walking the horse and avoiding the problem
all together. I assume she rides because she enjoys it. I only object to
her riding but refusing to assume the risks.
>+ The question becomes
>+one not of courtesy, but of rights,
>
>Huh? Sure is a matter of courtesy (whether or not it's a matter of
>rights as well).
Phrase it how you will, the point is that there is a conflict. Either the
cyclist or the rider must give something up. How do you see "courtesy"
resolving this situation?
>
>+the person who brings the horse onto the road is the person
>+who must be prepared to deal with its special problems.
>
>Do you mean people like you?
Exactly, if I or any other legal user of a vehicle (including another
horse by the way) alarms the horse, I expect the rider to deal with it.
>--
>Rob Bernardo, Pacific Bell UNIX Small Bus. Systems Development & Maintenance
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 88 10:21:56 EDT
From: Julie Moore <[email protected]>
Subject: Advanced Training?
Have read with interest the bicycle/horse discussions.
However, as owner of an old, sensible TB who has seen
it all and (I thought) been trained to do most of it,
Lawrence Cler's message in Digest-105 caught my eye.
He states:
>When I approach a horse on a bicycle, I decrease my speed and ride
>as far away (to the side of) from the horse(s) as possible.
I think Lawrence makes a good point. If I were approaching a
horse on a bicycle, I too would give him as much room as possible.
Lawrence states further:
>Start slowly, (in the same way that one would train a horse to
>hunt/shoot from their back)...
I think I have to draw the line here. My horse is much too heavy
for me to carry on my back. And besides, I have no interest in
training him to hunt/shoot.
[Just kidding, Lawrence -- guess I'm feeling silly today!]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 88 12:46 CDT
From: PHI-BONES <LIVINGSTONE%[email protected]>
Subject: Horses and Divers
Fellow Hippophiles:
I just had to laugh after reading Joyce King's note. In the past three years
of avid scuba diving, the encounter descibed in her note has happened to me
twice. Both times I had no idea that the horse was there prior to surfacing and
apologized profusely for disturbing a rather scenic and limpid trail ride.
I get the general impression that horses get a kick :) out of water and
usually don't shy at things like fish, but will panic when something which
looks like a seal approaches them underwater (and try to step on it's head
-- read from the POV of personal experience.)
The problem as I see it is that both the horse and the diver are usually
looking down, so that while the horse is able to see a large, dark form
approaching itself from underwater, the diver only sees the bottom.
Unrelated: A horse trying to swim is one of the funniest things to watch
underwater. A couple of times friends of mine have taken their horses for
a "swim" (or more appropriately, a "float") and I have either snorkeled
or scuba-ed down to watch them from below -- pretty interesting study in
non-adaptive bio-hydrodynamics... really. Definitely brings home the point
that the horse is a completely terran-derived animal.
Jeff Livingstone
Biochemistry Dept.
University of Wisconsin - Madison
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 88 12:59:09 CST
From: "Don Hayes" <A01DLH1%[email protected]>
Subject: HORSES & HAZARDS
After reading the numerous items about horses & bicycles & etc., I would
like to make some observations. (Thats the nice thing about the net, if
I am being ignored, I don't know about it.)
I'm not much of a rider, I do spend some time driving a team of large
ponies on a wagon. If you think life gets interesting when the horse
you're on gets spooked, try it with a pair (or more) and experience some
REAL fun. Try to remember that there is a difference between relaxing
and in-attention. Horses can and do move quickly when frightened. So
for your protection and those around you, BE AWARE of your suroundings
as much as possible. Be alert enough to what your horse(s) are doing so
that a problem can be handled before becoming dangerous.
I have also found that tall quiet objects that sneak up on a horse from
behind are a particular hazard. Some which I have encountered are fold-up
farm equipment, blowing paper or plastic, grain elevators (no, it was
not really moveing, my horses just didn't know that their feed comes
from there), and a hot air baloon descending from behind to a point
somewhere ahead. Trees and utility poles are usually ok, unless one
happens to be holding a tangled kite. The list could go on and on. There
is no way that a horse can be trained to not be surprised at anything.
(The same is true with people, etc.)
On the legal issue, in IL, horses and horse powered vehicles come under
the same laws as, and are considered by the law the same as farm
equipment (in as much as is possible). One does not have to display the
triangular slow moveing sign on ones back when rideing on a horse. It
IS required on farm equipment and on horse drawn wagons etc.
We are ultimately responsible for our own safety while rideing etc. even
if we are *right* and the other person is *wrong* to the point which we
no longer have control over events. (That's practical responsibillity,
not necessarily legal).
Don Hayes A01DLH1 at NIUENG.BITNET
VM Systems Programmer
Northern Illinois University Dekalb, Il
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 88 14:45 CST
From: GOFFINET%[email protected]
Subject: intro
I am new to the listserv. I have always loved to watch horses and even
ride once in awhile when I could. (I've always lived in the city.) I rode
on weekends in the park when I could save up enough allowance. But I always
seemed to get such headstrong horses that took me on some real wild rides.
But the worst was going on a moon-lit ride with a horse that expanded his
belly(?). Every time I asked the people in charge to tighten the saddle cinch
because the saddle was about to fall off....they would try but this horse was a
master in the art of deception because next thing I knew the saddle was again
sliding all over the place. Fortunately for me...I was able to stay on don't
ask me how...I think it was orneriness on my part...for a ride that I liken to
the cartoon of Icabod Crane and the Headless Horseman. That should have cured
me from wanting to go riding but it didn't. I decided to sign up for lessons
that were being offered through the university that I was going to. I was
really hopeful about these lessons but they were miserable. These digests
have already have helped me because now I know what was wrong. It might take
me awhile to learn but it doesn't help when the horses you ride are over-
worked and the teacher has a lot of students...and just maybe the teacher
just isn't right either. Does anyone know of any good teachers..in the
St. Louis, MO area? I would be a very rank beginner, don't have a horse,
and would just like to ride...
Anna
GOFFINET@WUMS
------------------------------
End of Equestrian Digest
*********************
|
| 76.8 | Equestrian Digest Issue #107 | LDP::BELANGER | N1FTD 144.910/44.56.0.142 | Tue Aug 30 1988 13:51 | 567 |
| Equestrian Digest Fri 26 Aug 1988 Issue 107
Today's Topics:
re: Horses in Maryland
Grand Canyon
Showpony For Sale!
Re: Horses in Maryland
Horses, Bicycles, Autos, etc. etc. etc.
Re: Horses in Maryland
Anybody have Thoroughbred advice for me?
Re: Anybody have Thoroughbred advice for me?
Re: Horses and Bicycles
Equus, September 1988 contents
horses and bicycles
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 88 01:13:35 PDT
From: Cliff Shaffer <[email protected]>
Subject: re: Horses in Maryland
I left the College Park area 1 year ago. While I was there, I had experience
with two horse groups. First is the student group on campus. They are a bit
disorganized, being mostly made up of/run by the students. They have a bunch
of horses (about 10) and give lessons. They are fine for people who want to
hack around and have a good time; its also a good way to get used to working
with horses since the students do everything to take care of them.
My wife and I, and some of our friends, have had extensive experience with
Wheaton Park Stables, about 10 miles from campus. They are a good-sized
boarding and lesson stable (about 20 horses for lessons/rentals, and about 20
horses boarded). The owner, Don Christie, is a bit of a character and not
everybody gets along with him. However, he is very good at caring for horses
- his animals are always in great shape. The quality of their lessons depends
on the instructor. Experienced riders will probably not get much from them
(unless Wheaton has hired some new people in the last year), but they will do
a good job with beginner/intermediate riders. Everything is English.
Wheaton was charging about $250/month for a stall; they fed, turned out, etc.
Shoes and vet were extra. I don't know exactly what prices are now, probably
a bit higher.
There are other stables in the area, but not very close to campus. I can
try to get more info on them if anybody is interested.
Cliff Shaffer
[email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (David Beckemeyer)
Newsgroups: rec.travel,rec.equestrian
Subject: Grand Canyon
Date: 22 Aug 88 21:40:46 GMT
Organization: Beckemeyer Development Tools, Oakland CA
My wife and I would like to go to the Grand Canyon at the end
of September. We are driving from the SF Bay Area and want to
stay somewhere near the canyon. We are interested in possibly trying
a "dude ranch". Does anyone know of any in this area? Also
interested in any other comments people have about Arizona
vacationing. E-mail if possible, please. Thank you.
--
David Beckemeyer ([email protected]) | "Don't call me Stupid!"
Beckemeyer Development Tools | "No. That would be an insult
478 Santa Clara Ave, Oakland, CA 94610 | to all the stupid people!"
UUCP: {unisoft,sun}!hoptoad!bdt!david | - A fish called Wanda
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Jennifer Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Showpony For Sale!
Date: 24 Aug 88 19:28:38 GMT
Distribution: rec
Organization: Theory Center, Cornell U., Ithaca NY
Goodbye computers!! :) I have found my dream job as an Assistant
Trainer of Morgan horses in West Springfield, MA. I'll be starting
on 9/12...
Here's the dilema. They said I can't bring my pony with me. She's
a GREAT little pony, and I'd sure like to find her a GREAT little
home, but I'm running short on time...
Here are the specifics. She's a Hackney Pony mare, 13 years, dark
bay with no white. She's been shown in Hackney Pleasure Driving,
Open Pleasure Driving, and Saddleseat Pleasure Pony. She took the
Pleasure Pony Division Reserve Championship at the NYS Horse Breeder's
Show earlier this year, and the Saddleseat Pleasure Pony Championship
at the Syracuse International Show a month later. She's only 50" at
the withers, but I'm the one who trained and showed her (5'8", 125 lbs).
Her bloodlines are excellent too, with linebreeding to Creation's King
in the 3rd generation. In the same generation on her dam's side, is
Lavington Lucifer. She's been bred once, to an Arabian stallion, but
didn't settle, so her value as a broodmare is questionable. She's
too young to retire to motherhood anyway! :)
I'm asking $1500 for her, but I'm willing to talk. She's definately
*not* a child's pony, unless the child is a very good rider. Her
manners are perfect, and she does nothing malicious, but she is
strong and loves to road trot! She can be strong in harness too,
especially on the road, so I doubt she would be good for a child
driver either, but an adult could handle her just fine in harness.
She is trail safe, and *loves* water! :) She also jumps very well!
If anyone is interested, or knows of anyone who might be interested,
please let me know. I would also be interested in any suggestions
about possible alternatives if I have to leave and haven't found a
place for her yet. I will be at the following addresses through 9/2.
THANKS!!!
Jennifer Moore
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Mark Feldman)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Horses in Maryland
Date: 24 Aug 88 19:48:45 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Mark Feldman)
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Maryland, College Park
[email protected] writes:
> I have a question. I have a job interview at the U of Maryland. U of M is
> located in College Park which is just outside of D.C. Is anybody familiar
> with the area? Anyone know what type of horse country it is? How much would
> board cost and how far away do I have to get from D.C. before I can do some
> serious trail riding?
Maryland is full of horse country. I never noticed it before I started
riding, but I guess that that's the same with everything.
As [email protected] (Cliff Shaffer) said, there is an equestrian
association on campus. The University of Maryland Equestrian Association
(UMEA) provides English riding lessons to its members. It is a cooperative
program made up of students, faculty, and staff. The university owns the
horses and the barn, but the care and feeding of the horses and the
management of the riding program is done by the UMEA. The UMEA currently
has twelve horses. Yes, Cliff, it is disorganized at times -- That's life.
It is a very good way for people to start with riding, and it is a good
place to learn about riding in the area.
There are many places to board and ride horses in the D.C. area, though you
do have to drive outside the beltway in most cases. I don't own a horse
[yet:-)], but I do know several people who do board their horses around here.
Being horse people, I'm sure that they would love to spend hours talking to
you about horses and boarding:-).
Back to the UMEA for a moment -- I'm curious if any other schools offer this
kind of program to their campus community. If you are a member of such a
program or know of one, please send me some mail.
Oh, and as far as bicycles and horses go, does anyone else where a bicycle
helmet when riding? It looks silly, but I can't see spending money for a
riding hemet which may or may not protect me as well as my Bell V1-pro that
has both ANSI and Snell certification.
Mark
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Benson)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.autos,rec.bicycles
Subject: Horses, Bicycles, Autos, etc. etc. etc.
Keywords: PLEASE USE CAUTION
Date: 24 Aug 88 22:07:49 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Naperville, Illinois
I have been reading all the stories about riding horses on the roads. I would
like to add my 2 cents for what its worth. I am also cross posting this to
rec.bicycles AND rec.autos because I know a lot of non-horse people are not
aware of what horses are like except for what they see on TV.
My advice for any vechical approaching a horse is to approach them the same
way you would a group of kids playing near the road. You never know if a kid
is going to run out in front of you and you may have to stop or swerve out of
the way. Even the most road safe horse may spook at something along the road,
that is the nature of the beast and most horsepeople know (or should know)
this. If the horse bolts into the path of your vehical not only will the
horse and horserider get hurt but a 1000 lb. animal can do a lot of damage
to your vechical.
There are a lot of areas where the only place you can ride a horse is along
the road and most of us are considerate of our fellow travelers. Please just
give us a wide berth, reduce your speed if possible and don't honk your horn
or rev your engine when you're along side of us. As for the silent bicycle, how
about a yell to let us know you are there and again give us a wide berth. It's
no fun getting run over by a horse because he bolts into you bicycle instead of
away from it.
If we all just use a little common courtesy and consideration for the other
guy, we all should be able to use the roads with fewer problems.
Pam B. ihlpa!pkb and
Rain the wonder horse
St Charles, Il.
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Kate Symonds)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Horses in Maryland
Date: 25 Aug 88 05:58:33 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Kate Symonds)
Organization: NetExpress Communications, Inc., Vienna, VA
you shouldnt have toomuch trouble finding a place to board around
UMD. HOWever, keep AWAY from Potomac Md, as you will pay lots and
lots of money for board....its the high rent district. look around
in Prince Georges county - to the east and south - and you should be
able to find a place. there is also the Prince Georges Equuestrian
center nearby. look in the Sunday Washington Post newspaper for
places, also the yellow pages for tack stores which might have listing
for board. expect to pay about $150 a month for full care, less for
pasture board or do-it-yourself. you should be able to find some
places to ride on trails.
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Bruce Bergman @spot)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Anybody have Thoroughbred advice for me?
Keywords: Thoroughbred, training
Date: 24 Aug 88 19:44:40 GMT
Organization: TeleSoft Inc., San Diego, CA
Howdy!
Recently I came onto a great bargin and now am the proud owner of
an ex-racing Thoroughbred named Justin (Just In Court). Since I've
never trained a horse (nor worked a hot Thoroughbred), I'd like to
see if anyone has any suggestions or advice for me.
Let me give you some background. I'm somewhere between a novice
and an experienced horseperson. I spent a couple of summers as an
Assistant Wrangler (Oooo! ;^) at a camp, have been around horses for
the larger part of my life, and have recently been helping a friend
with her horses about four times a week. I've never trained a horse
in real life, but have read lots of books about training, etc.
I'm currently intending on doing most of the training for Justin by
myself, however I'm relying on a friend who HAS trained several
horses (around ten, I think) and has concepts and ideas pretty similar
to my own. Should I need to, I may consider professional training,
however I'd prefer to have all the perks/drops of my own training
relationship.
My request for information centers mainly around the particular
aspects of racing Thoroughbreds. Justin is 17 hands, finely muscled,
and in generally pretty good shape, although he had two significantly
bowed tendons (which is why he no longer races) that have pretty
much set. He is 4 years old and has been off the track for about
eight months. During the past eight weeks, he has had no more exercise
than a jog inside his spacious corral. He has some POTENTIAL for
Navicular Disease, so I'm not going to be using him for anything more
strenuous than pleasure or maybe competitive trail riding.
Justin and I are getting along fine. I think there is a bit of
unusual respect from both of us; he being 17 hands, myself being
seven foot tall (we look each other in the eye...). He is still on
the hot side and spooks over unusual roadway items (e.g., speedbumps,
rabbits, dogs, but not cars, trees, etc). He seems to be good on
the trail (he settled into a nice relaxed walk after about 20
minutes), so I think he has some great potential. He is very
calm on the trail (for a Thoroughbred) but ancy around the stables.
He doesn't tie well with a single lead, but appears to tolerate
cross-tying (must be typical for racers). He is not on any grain,
and I have not saddled him yet. I'm not really intending to do
anything of that sort until we know each other well (maybe in a
month or so). He commands very well, but doesn't remember very
long (sounds like some kids I know... :^). He also takes to
ponying.
Has anyone out there trained a Thoroughbred for simple trail or
pleasure? What sort of things might he have problems with? How
might I get him calmed down?
Basically any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks!
bruce
--
allegra!\ TeleSoft
ihnp4! \ crash!--\ (619) 457-2700 x123
nosc! \ \
>--ucsd!---->--telesoft!bruceb (Bruce Bergman N7HAW)
scgvaxd! / /
ucbvax! / log-hb!--/ 5959 Cornerstone Court West
uunet! / San Diego, CA. 92121-9891
Any opinions are my own. Make Wildfire a Thing of the Past.
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (John B. Nagle)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Anybody have Thoroughbred advice for me?
Keywords: Thoroughbred, training
Date: 26 Aug 88 02:01:52 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (John B. Nagle)
Organization: Stanford University
I've owned several off-the-track Thoroughbreds. They're fun, but
difficult. The owner's manual for the ex-racehorse is "Reschooling the
Thoroughbred", by Peggy Jean Pittinger. Go to great lengths to find
a copy. It will tell you of all the standard problems, and what to
do about them.
John Nagle
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Jonathan Gingerich)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles,misc.legal
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Date: 26 Aug 88 00:04:31 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Jonathan Gingerich)
Distribution: na
Organization: Unisys Santa Monica
In article <[email protected]> [email protected] (Denes Zsolnay) writes:
>...
>For the record, if I may quote from the California Vehicle Code:
>
>21759. The driver of any vehicle [and thanks, Jon, for reminding us that
>bicycles are in fact vehicles in the eyes of the law]
As are ridden animals, etc, in everyone's eyes I hope.
>approaching any
>horse drawn vehicle, any ridden animal, or any livestock shall exercise
>proper control of his vehicle and shall reduce speed or stop as may
>appear necessary or as may be signalled or otherwise requested by any
>person driving, riding or in charge of the animal or livestock in order
>to avoid frightening and to safeguard the animal or livestock and to
>insure the safety of any person driving or riding the animal or in charge
>of the livestock.
>
>Crystal clear.
I'm not so sure. It depends on how the law is interpreted.
In particular, what speed appears necessary to avoid frightening the animal?
If any speed which may frighten the animal, then every vehicle must stop
every time, which is clearly not the way the law is applied.
If the animal does not exhibit any indications
of fright nor does the rider indicate such a condition, then the overtaking
driver must exercise necessary care to avoid harm through collision, which
is true of any overtaking situation, except that this law explicitly
indicates that the possibility of a frightened animal must be considered
in determining the appropriate speed.
I'm no lawyer (as Ronnie says) so I'm not going to defend this interpretation,
just point out that it is one alternative. I would be quite interested
in a knowledgable opinion.
>Attention California bikers: I hereby formally request that
>you stop for all horses. Got you. It could be me.
^^^^^^ ^^
Uh, which end? (Sorry I couldn't resist:-))
>
>Denes Zsolnay
Jon. Gingerich
------------------------------
From: robin%[email protected]
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 88 01:42:22 CDT
Subject: Equus, September 1988 contents
Here is another magazine table of contents. Statements in [ ] are my
additions. Feel free to send queries if you want to know more about a
particular listed item, I'll try to assist.
Robin Crickman, ...ihnp4!bungia!foundln!robin
EQUUS, (number 131) September 1988
The Fastest Horse On Four Hooves. Keeping up with a homely, aging speedster
named Mr. Clean was a difficult, but rewarding, proposition.
Olympic Riders Set Sights On Seoul. Previews and prospects of the 1988
Summer Games.
Will He Be All Right? When faced with an equine limb injury, time and
a realistic look at the options can help you to determine your horse's fate.
Over The Long Haul. A guide for infrequent shippers.
Navicular Disease: The Inside Story. A unique perspective of the condition
that incapacitates tens of thousands of horses each year.
The Joy Of Giving. From the practical to the fanciful, there's a [resent
for every horse lover on your list.
The Lesser-Known Arm Bone. Its length and angle dictate the style of each
horse's front-end movement.
The File, a roundup of news and views that matter to the horse world.
Replace this line with first item.
EQUUS Consultants is a monthly feature in which selected experts from across
the country respond to questions raised by readers.
The Horse Industry's Annual Mixer. Informal get-together and informative
seminars cover hot topics at American Horse Council convention.
A Horse Divided. Innovative leasing program reduces the hassles of
having a horse.
No Leaps Forward. Potomac horse fever researchers exchange progress
reports at Maryland meeting.
Double The Fun. Idaho identical-twin grandmothers carve carousel horses.
Charting Horse Territory. New association aims to take the guesswork
out of marketing to the equine industry.
Gauging The Limits Of Horses' Limbs. Illinois study measures the forces
that contribute to lower-let strain.
Hands On represents a summary of current good practice in horsekeeping.
Pointers for effective recordkeeping. [personal endorsement; I have
found more than once that recording seemingly trivial observations about
my horse's health has proved invaluable later.]
Health-conscious stall check.
How to wrap a leg wound.
Does your horse need salt? [probably]
Seven signs of an ill-fitting saddle.
Industry Watch
Delta Society examines human-animal bond.
AHP fosters teamwork in the equine press.
Equine athlete focus of seminar. [at Texas A&M in late October]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Melody Eidbo)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: horses and bicycles
Date: 26 Aug 88 15:24:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
One more "horses/bicycles/roads" flame. (Sorry).
In more than twenty years of riding horses, much of which took place on roads
(since that was the only way I could afford to transport my horse), I've
seen both the best and worst of my fellow road travelers. I have had people
slow down to a stop to let me pass, and I've had firecrackers thrown at
me from a speeding motorcycle. My horse slipped on some smooth pavement
one time and fell on top of me. The people working at the gas station I
was in front of just stared at me as I tried to catch my horse, dizzy from a
severe concussion. A well-meaning motorist honked one time and sent my
nervous Arabian right into some barbed wire (which wasn't too much fun for
my leg, either). I've had my horses let a huge semi rattle past without
so much as a twitch, but decide that bicycles were horse-eating beasts.
The bottom line is: there are nice people on the road, and there are jerks
on the road, in cars, on bicycles, on motorcycles, and on horses. The best
(and only) thing you can do is: ride or drive DEFENSIVELY.
I find that you can minimize your danger and maximize your pleasure by
following a few rules of thumb:
If you are on horseback:
1. DON'T RIDE ON A TRAVELLED ROAD UNLESS YOU HAVE TO. There is usually a
way to get where you're going that involves minimal road-riding. Ask the
permission of farmers and landowners before you decide to cut across that
nice cornfield, though.
2. STAY OFF THE PAVEMENT. If the shoulder of the road is too narrow for
you to ride your horse on it, get off and walk your horse. The time my
horse fell on me, we were just walking. I nearly lost my eyesight because
of that head injury.
3. IF YOU'RE NOT A VERY EXPERIENCED RIDER, DON'T RIDE NEXT TO ROADS. Even
good riders get hurt in dangerous situations, but if you're a novice, you
could be risking your life. It's not worth it.
4. WEAR A HARD HAT! I know, I know, there are a million excuses why hardhats
are inconvenient, too hot, etc. However, there have been more situations than
I care to remember when my hardhat probably saved my life. (Wish I had been
wearing it on that fateful ride mentioned above. I was lucky.)
5. TRAIN YOUR HORSE TO TRAFFIC SITUATIONS. You cannot anticipate everything
you will encounter on the road. However, you can accustomize your horse to
joggers, bicycles, motorcycles, and cars. A good way of instilling confidence
in a nervous horse is to have a friend ride the *object* (bicycle, etc) by
your horse, while you praise and comfort him. Then, RIDE YOUR HORSE AFTER the
*object*. In horse psychology, he has "chased" the *object* away, and it no
longer is something to be feared. I've used this many times with my baby
horses with great success.
6. STAY ALERT. Because you've had a long day at the show ring, or because you
have had a tough lesson, is no excuse to endanger your life. Most accidents
happen because we are "goofing off", or not paying attention. Your horse needs
your attention the ENTIRE time you ride him. If you are too tired to do this,
get someone to trailer you home.
7. BE COURTEOUS. DON'T BE A JERK. Realize that not everyone is as enamoured/
concerned with your horse as you are. Most normal folks are downright afraid
of 1200 pound animals with sharp hooves. Give pedestrians and bicycles a wide
berth. It's the only safe thing to do.
If you are on a bike/car:
1. PLEASE BE CAREFUL AROUND HORSES. We're not out to spoil your fun, we're
just trying to get somewhere. You don't have to stop, just slow down a little,
call out to the riders (although they should be ALERT already!) Show them the
same consideration you would any other dangerous situation. (Would you whiz
by a construction crew, with open manhole covers, just because you have "the
right to"? I hope not.) People break their necks on bicycles, too.
2. GIVE HORSES A WIDE BERTH. Yes, they can hurt you. It's rare, but it
occasionally happens. Some horses instinctively kick at something they are
afraid of.
3. DON'T HONK! It's usually not the noise that scares a horse, but the
suddenness of the noise. If the horse is already nervous about you, honking
a horn just confirms his worst fears. Pass slowly and calmly.
4. IF SOMETHING HAPPENS, FOR GOSH SAKES, STOP! If you see a rider come off
of a horse, whether it was your fault or not, PLEASE STOP! If someone is
hurt, you can probably get help a lot faster than another person on horseback.
Would you leave the scene of an automobile accident? No one will ever chew
you out for trying to help.
5. BE COURTEOUS. DON'T BE A JERK. Realize that some horses are not as
enamoured/concerned with your bike as you are. Some horses are downright
afraid of your silent, whizzing machine. Give horses a wide berth. It's
the only safe thing to do.
thanks for listening. I hope everyone has
many more pleasant, safe riding experiences,
whatever you're riding.
Melody Moore Eidbo
Owner, Horse Sense Riding School
Atlanta, GA
------------------------------
End of Equestrian Digest
*********************
|
| 76.9 | Equestrian Digest Issue #108 | LDP::BELANGER | N1FTD 144.910/44.56.0.142 | Wed Aug 31 1988 17:30 | 279 |
| Equestrian Digest Tue 30 Aug 1988 Issue 108
Today's Topics:
Keeping a Colt!
horses and bicycles
leasing
Re: Keeping a Colt!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Barry)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Keeping a Colt!
Keywords: inexperienced with stallions
Date: 26 Aug 88 20:35:55 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Naperville, Illinois
I have a friend in Texas that has 1 mare and a gelding, her
girlfriend has 2 mares and a new colt. They have several acres
on their property where they keep these horses.
Question:
They would like to keep the colt, but their not totally sure if its
possible. Their both very good riders, but I wouldn't say excellent
horseman! What does it take to keep a colt, soon to be a stallion
on the same property as 3 mares, and a gelding. They are VERY concerned
with their saftey and the saftey of all the horses, but they would
like to try this. They know that they can geld the stallion if he's
too much of a handful, but they'd like to keep him the way he is.
Does anyone have any suggestions I can give them? Should they forget
the whole thing? Even though it probably the smartest thing to do,
their not rich, so hiring a professional trainer might not be possible.
Thanks in advance,
Wendy Gename
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Melody Eidbo)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: horses and bicycles
Keywords: horses bicycles
Date: 26 Aug 88 15:24:32 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology
One more "horses/bicycles/roads" flame. (Sorry).
In more than twenty years of riding horses, much of which took place on roads
(since that was the only way I could afford to transport my horse), I've
seen both the best and worst of my fellow road travelers. I have had people
slow down to a stop to let me pass, and I've had firecrackers thrown at
me from a speeding motorcycle. My horse slipped on some smooth pavement
one time and fell on top of me. The people working at the gas station I
was in front of just stared at me as I tried to catch my horse, dizzy from a
severe concussion. A well-meaning motorist honked one time and sent my
nervous Arabian right into some barbed wire (which wasn't too much fun for
my leg, either). I've had my horses let a huge semi rattle past without
so much as a twitch, but decide that bicycles were horse-eating beasts.
The bottom line is: there are nice people on the road, and there are jerks
on the road, in cars, on bicycles, on motorcycles, and on horses. The best
(and only) thing you can do is: ride or drive DEFENSIVELY.
I find that you can minimize your danger and maximize your pleasure by
following a few rules of thumb:
If you are on horseback:
1. DON'T RIDE ON A TRAVELLED ROAD UNLESS YOU HAVE TO. There is usually a
way to get where you're going that involves minimal road-riding. Ask the
permission of farmers and landowners before you decide to cut across that
nice cornfield, though.
2. STAY OFF THE PAVEMENT. If the shoulder of the road is too narrow for
you to ride your horse on it, get off and walk your horse. The time my
horse fell on me, we were just walking. I nearly lost my eyesight because
of that head injury.
3. IF YOU'RE NOT A VERY EXPERIENCED RIDER, DON'T RIDE NEXT TO ROADS. Even
good riders get hurt in dangerous situations, but if you're a novice, you
could be risking your life. It's not worth it.
4. WEAR A HARD HAT! I know, I know, there are a million excuses why hardhats
are inconvenient, too hot, etc. However, there have been more situations than
I care to remember when my hardhat probably saved my life. (Wish I had been
wearing it on that fateful ride mentioned above. I was lucky.)
5. TRAIN YOUR HORSE TO TRAFFIC SITUATIONS. You cannot anticipate everything
you will encounter on the road. However, you can accustomize your horse to
joggers, bicycles, motorcycles, and cars. A good way of instilling confidence
in a nervous horse is to have a friend ride the *object* (bicycle, etc) by
your horse, while you praise and comfort him. Then, RIDE YOUR HORSE AFTER the
*object*. In horse psychology, he has "chased" the *object* away, and it no
longer is something to be feared. I've used this many times with my baby
horses with great success.
6. STAY ALERT. Because you've had a long day at the show ring, or because you
have had a tough lesson, is no excuse to endanger your life. Most accidents
happen because we are "goofing off", or not paying attention. Your horse needs
your attention the ENTIRE time you ride him. If you are too tired to do this,
get someone to trailer you home.
7. BE COURTEOUS. DON'T BE A JERK. Realize that not everyone is as enamoured/
concerned with your horse as you are. Most normal folks are downright afraid
of 1200 pound animals with sharp hooves. Give pedestrians and bicycles a wide
berth. It's the only safe thing to do.
If you are on a bike/car:
1. PLEASE BE CAREFUL AROUND HORSES. We're not out to spoil your fun, we're
just trying to get somewhere. You don't have to stop, just slow down a little,
call out to the riders (although they should be ALERT already!) Show them the
same consideration you would any other dangerous situation. (Would you whiz
by a construction crew, with open manhole covers, just because you have "the
right to"? I hope not.) People break their necks on bicycles, too.
2. GIVE HORSES A WIDE BERTH. Yes, they can hurt you. It's rare, but it
occasionally happens. Some horses instinctively kick at something they are
afraid of.
3. DON'T HONK! It's usually not the noise that scares a horse, but the
suddenness of the noise. If the horse is already nervous about you, honking
a horn just confirms his worst fears. Pass slowly and calmly.
4. IF SOMETHING HAPPENS, FOR GOSH SAKES, STOP! If you see a rider come off
of a horse, whether it was your fault or not, PLEASE STOP! If someone is
hurt, you can probably get help a lot faster than another person on horseback.
Would you leave the scene of an automobile accident? No one will ever chew
you out for trying to help.
5. BE COURTEOUS. DON'T BE A JERK. Realize that some horses are not as
enamoured/concerned with your bike as you are. Some horses are downright
afraid of your silent, whizzing machine. Give horses a wide berth. It's
the only safe thing to do.
thanks for listening. I hope everyone has
many more pleasant, safe riding experiences,
whatever you're riding.
Melody Moore Eidbo
Owner, Horse Sense Riding School
Atlanta, GA
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Debbie Gesimondo)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: leasing
Date: 29 Aug 88 20:59:00 GMT
Organization: Apollo Computer, Chelmsford, Mass.
i was wondering whether or not anyone out there had any information
on leasing. i remember that carl(?) posted a long disertation on
the pitfalls of leasing, but of course i didn't save it. i'm thinking
of going in on a half-lease with the owner of a quarter horse. i'm
test driving him tomorrow night. even if i don't like him, or if
he doesn't like me, i'm still going to look around for another half-
lease. any suggestions??
/debbie g.
### {mit-erl,yale,uw-beaver}!apollo!debbieg ###
### [email protected] ###
### [email protected] ###
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Benson)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Keeping a Colt!
Summary: Stallions are a lot of hard work.
(long)
Keywords: inexperienced with stallions
Date: 30 Aug 88 03:09:03 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Naperville, Illinois
> They would like to keep the colt, but their not totally sure if its
> possible. Their both very good riders, but I wouldn't say excellent
> horseman! What does it take to keep a colt, soon to be a stallion
> on the same property as 3 mares, and a gelding. They are VERY concerned
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions I can give them? Should they forget
> the whole thing? Even though it probably the smartest thing to do,
> their not rich, so hiring a professional trainer might not be possible.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Wendy Gename
The following is not a flame but just expressing concern for welfare of
someone who has never handled a stallion before.
You may have answered their questions for them. They are not excellent
horsemen and they may not be able to hire a professional trainer. They
should not try to deal with a stallion then. If the colt is not of GOOD
breeding quality or the owners inexperenced handlers then he should be gelded.
I can give you several reasons why.
You only have half of the stallion's attention. The rest is going to be on
other horses and if they are male or female and if they are going to be a
threat to his territory or if he can breed them.
Once they reach puberity they usually must be kept by themselves. Horses are
herd animals. Why force an animal to live by himself just because you want a
stallion. The reason for the seperation is of course obvious with the mares
but they may get too agressive with other geldings. They don't realize the
horse is a gelding and will try to dominate over the gelding. If the gelding
also has a dominate personialty someone is going to get hurt becuase the
stallion will usually not back down.
This same agressive and dominating behavior is going to surface with his
human handlers. He is going to try to dominate you also and you must be
prepared to deal with this and teach him respect and manners. Biting and
striking (and sometimes rearing) are stallion characteristics and must be dealt
with sometimes harshly.
Now some examples.
I keep my horse at a barn that is also a training stable and breeding farm.
I have learned a lot by just listening and watching what goes on both in
training and breeding. I have also seen a few accidents.
Once during a breeding session the stallion pulled hard enough to break his
halter ( the handler had just spent 20 mins going over the halter looking for
weak spots). Now we have a tied mare in heat and a lose stallion with one
thing only on his mind. He got to the mare before the handler could get to
him and the mare decided he was too rough and started trying to kick him.
He came down off the mare in frustration and just started kicking out at no
one in particular and caught the handler in the stomach. This whole thing
took maybe 5 to 10 seconds. The handler wasn't hurt too bad because she had
seen the kick coming and had put her arms up and had started to get out of
the way so her stomach did not take the full force of the kick. But she was
sick for a few days. She has been training and handling horses for 15 years
and knows what she is doing. It was just a quirk accident.
My gelding is a very sweet and quiet horse who is very gentle. You can put
young horses with him and he is their buddy when no one else will tollerat
their pranks. But he was gelded at 9 months of age because he had turned from
a nice sweet colt to a RANK yearling. His hormones kicked in early (at 3
months he was trying to breed mares) and if he had been left a stallion he
would have been a real pain to handle. You would have probably had to carry
a stick for protection. Even at 9 months he was trying to challange his
owners. To see him now you would never believe it. He loves everyone.
At my barn there was a 26 yr old stallion. He was well behaved and pretty
quiet most of the time. The trainer got in a just recently gelded 3 yr
old for breaking. He still exhibited some stallion characteristics. One
day he was turned out in a pen a little ways away from the old stallion's
pen. The old stud got read defensive about this intruder and went thru his
fence like it wasn't even there. Luckly he couldn't get to the other horse
but they stood on either side of the fence trying to bite and strike at each
other until we got them seperated.
I could relate a couple of other not so nice stories but I thinks I've talked
too much now. Stallions are not as easy to care for as mares and geldings and
if there isn't a good reason to keep a horse a stallion then he should be
gelded. He is going to need alot more handling, discispline and plain hard
work. If your friends don't have the time or the space for this added
responsibility they should not consider keeping a stallion. I'm sure there
are some who dissagree with me and I know this must sound real preachy.
but the bottom line is this; they will be dealing with a 1000-1200lb animal
with the power (with hormones clouding his mind) to be dangerious.
Sorry to have carried on so long.
Pam B. ihlpa!pkb St. Charles, Il.
and Navajo Rain Dance
------------------------------
End of Equestrian Digest
*********************
|
| 76.10 | Equestrian Digest Issue #109 | LDP::BELANGER | N1FTD 144.910/44.56.0.142 | Wed Sep 14 1988 22:03 | 241 |
| Equestrian Digest Thu 1 Sep 1988 Issue 109
Today's Topics:
Re: Horses and Bicycles
Re: Keeping a Colt!
Re: leasing
Re: leasing
More information on "Strangles"
Re: Keeping a colt
Re: leasing
Re: leasing
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Martin Lefkowitz)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.bicycles
Subject: Re: Horses and Bicycles
Summary: talk to the horse
Keywords: road hazards
Date: 30 Aug 88 20:15:27 GMT
Organization: LMSC-LEADS, Sunnyvale, Ca.
I haven't read this group in a while so someone could have already stated
what I'm about to say, if so sorry.
I have been riding a mountain bike in Santa Clara County for about 10
months. The trails in the open space preserves and county parks that we are
allowed to ride on here for the most part are also horse trails. I've
encounterd at least a dozen horses in this time. What I have found is that
horses act differently. Some are more scared than others. The main thing
to do is to make a noise. Talk to the rider or the horse to let him know
you are there. Sometimes the horse rider will demand you dismount while
crossing the trail. Personally I don't think that that is necessary except
on very narrow trails, but I'm not going to argue with them. Thats not
what I left my house to do.
--
{(ucbvax!dual!sun) (ihnp4!qubix)}!sunncal!leadsv!lefko
{{allegra ihnp4 dual}!fortune decvax!decwrl}!amdcad!cae780!leadsv!lefko
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Kate Symonds)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Keeping a Colt!
Keywords: inexperienced with stallions
Date: 31 Aug 88 04:46:37 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Kate Symonds)
Organization: NetExpress Communications, Inc., Vienna, VA
i i suppose keeping a stallion can be fun. my neighbor had a stallion
that she used for breeding. he was an older horse that she always said
was an all right horse but she always told us to keep out of his way
- dont get withing biting or kicking distance. as i had mares, i expect
i sometimes smelled great and always kept welll away. the point of this
being, as mentioned above, stallions can be ok but can be unpredictable.
even the nice ones will run you over to get to a mare in heat and can be
unpredictable, more so than mares or geldings.
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Kate Symonds)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: leasing
Date: 31 Aug 88 04:41:44 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Kate Symonds)
Organization: NetExpress Communications, Inc., Vienna, VA
i've had some marginal experience with loaning horses, but not actually
leased one. i've been lucky so far with the three horses i've loaned -
one because i didnt have time to take care of, the 2nd because he was
a pony we had outgrown and we couldnt part with, and the third i still
have out on loan. our mare was loaned to a family for 18 months, having
been breed first. the people we loaned her to got to keep the foal. this
worked out really well, the family really loved her a lot. the pony did
pretty well but came back with a hellatious case of worms. my mare that i
have currently loaned to someone is doing well so far. with this one, to
protect my self, i wrote up an agreement for the people i am loaning her
to to sign. i think the big thing when you go into a loan situation is
to have both sides understand what their obligations are - how much is
going to be paid for the lease, how many times a week you get to ride,
if you are expected to split vet & farrier bills or what. what about
your tack? will you get to do some showing, etc. i'm big on having things
in writing. know what you are getting into and have great time.
------------------------------
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: leasing
Date: 30 Aug 88 17:09:00 GMT
> of going in on a half-lease with the owner of a quarter horse.
You only want 1/8th of a horse??? :-)
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Lynette Thomas)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: More information on "Strangles"
Date: 1 Sep 88 00:15:32 GMT
Organization: Physio Control Corp., Seattle WA
Please help! A nearby neighbor just had her horse put down because he
had something called "strangles". I don't know this person well enough
to just show up and ask questions. As a novice horse person I'm not familiar
with this....I did hear that it's highly contagious and that the pasture/barn
should be disinfected. How would someone go about doing this?
Any information on this would be greatly appreciated. I *may* board my
horse in this same pasture but will not make the move until I know more.
Thanks!
------------------------------
From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Keeping a colt
Date: 1 Sep 88 17:07:06 GMT
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
>> They would like to keep the colt, but their not totally sure if its
>> possible. Their both very good riders, but I wouldn't say excellent
>> horseman! What does it take to keep a colt, soon to be a stallion
>> on the same property as 3 mares, and a gelding.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Wendy Gename
Being a good rider has NOTHING to do with handling and raising a breeding
horse. If you think raising a stallion would be nice and you might want to
breed him later on, FORGET IT!!! If you are serious about becoming a horse
breeder then that is a different story. It does take a lot of work and
dedication.
>You only have half of the stallion's attention. The rest is going to be on
>other horses and if they are male or female and if they are going to be a
>threat to his territory or if he can breed them.
While the previous paragraph describes the general instincts of a horse
raising a colt from a weanling to be your breeding stallion is the
smartest way to do it. Training starts from day one, this way he learns manners
and respect for his handler and you learn the horses quirks.
>Once they reach puberity they usually must be kept by themselves. Horses are
>herd animals. Why force an animal to live by himself just because you want a
>stallion. The reason for the seperation is of course obvious with the mares
>but they may get too agressive with other geldings. They don't realize the
>horse is a gelding and will try to dominate over the gelding. If the gelding
>also has a dominate personialty someone is going to get hurt becuase the
>stallion will usually not back down.
A stallion should NOT be isolated from the other horses all together, he
should not be turned out with the mares unless you are doing pasture breeding
but he should have contact with them.
*****************************************************************************
* IF YOU TREAT THE STALLION LIKE A CRIMINAL BY KEEPING HIM IN ISOLATION AND *
* BRINGING HIM OUT ONLY TO BREED HE WILL ACT LIKE A CRIMINAL AND TRY TO *
* BREED OR FIGHT EVERY OTHER HORSE. *
* *
* YOU WILL GET BACK EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE WILLING TO PUT IN WITH HORSES! *
*****************************************************************************
>This same agressive and dominating behavior is going to surface with his
>human handlers. He is going to try to dominate you also and you must be
>prepared to deal with this and teach him respect and manners. Biting and
>striking (and sometimes rearing) are stallion characteristics and must be
>dealt with sometimes harshly.
The above is true of any horse whether he has testicles or not, if they are
brought up properly you have a minimum of problems with them.
>If there isn't a good reason to keep a horse a stallion then he should be
>gelded. He is going to need alot more handling, discispline and plain hard
>work. If your friends don't have the time or the space for this added
>responsibility they should not consider keeping a stallion.
>
>Pam B. ihlpa!pkb St. Charles, Il.
>and Navajo Rain Dance
Its not that a stallion needs more work it is just that you HAVE TO work
with them. Other than that I agree with Pam's last paragraph.
There are courses available for you (1 week seminars) at Colorado State Univ
in Fort Collins Colorado in the fall and at Cornell in Ithica NY in the spring.
I strongly recommend you attend one of these as well as getting help from a
vet experienced in equine reproduction. Ask if s/he does ultrasound on mares,
if they are not committed to spending 15 to 25K on equipment they are not
experienced. Get direct experience, work at a breeding farm for one season
or at least a dozen breedings (each mare is usually bred 2 to 3 times).
Handling the mares can often be more work than handling the stallion.
My credentials: I own Dancing Horse Farm, we breed American Saddlebred Horses
and stand 2 stallions, I've done this for 7 years and prior have worked with
other breeders.
My stallions mount only when they are told to and get down when they are told
to, they are very well behaved. There are some rank stallions out there but I
believe it is due to the way they are brought up and handled, There is also
some pretty rank geldings out there they I wouldn't give 2 cents for.
Breeding horses is a hell of a lot of work and should not be done as a part
time hobby, that just invited trouble.
Good luck,
John Perkins
(DEC E-NET) CSS::PERKINS
(UUCP) {decvax, ucbvax, allegra}!decwrl!css.dec.com!perkins
(ARPA) [email protected]
perkins%[email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Debbie Gesimondo)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: leasing
Date: 1 Sep 88 15:00:00 GMT
Organization: Apollo Computer, Chelmsford, Mass.
>> of going in on a half-lease with the owner of a quarter horse.
>You only want 1/8th of a horse??? :-)
i knew someone would say that. i just knew it!!! :-)
/debbie g.
------------------------------
End of Equestrian Digest
*********************
|
| 76.11 | Equestrian Digest Issue #110 | LDP::BELANGER | N1FTD 144.910/44.56.0.142 | Wed Sep 14 1988 22:04 | 611 |
| Equestrian Digest Fri 2 Sep 1988 Issue 110
Today's Topics:
Leasing (Reprints of old responses)
Re: More information on "Strangles"
strangles
strangles NOT shipping fever!
Intro
Re: Intro
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 88 02:27:58 EDT
From: robin%[email protected]
Subject: Leasing (Reprints of old responses)
Debbie Gesimondo asked for suggestions on leasing. Early in 1986 I
asked a similar question and got a lot of useful advice from the
Digest readers of that time. What follows is a summary of my query
and the responses. I think they are as useful now as when I received
them. My only warning is that leasing soon turns out not to be enough.
I went from lessons to leasing to buying a horse to buying a horse farm.
We just acquired a third horse, a thoroughbred gelding to train for
dressage and CT. Heaven knows where it will all end. So watch out,
that leased horse is only the beginning.
Robin Crickman ...ihnp4!bungia!foundln!robin
[list coordinator's note -- since these are old messages many of the
addresses are out of date -- mine, for instance. Please feel free
to contact me at [email protected] or uunet!bbn!horse-request
if you need to get in touch with one of these people. --KENR]
From: ihnp4!ihu1n!cbd
>Subject: Time-share a horse? How?
>
>I have recently started taking horseback riding lessons and would like to
>practice my instruction on a regular basis. What I want to do is to
>arrange with a horse owner to "time-share" their horse; i.e. to pay a
>fixed fee to use the horse every week at a set time.
>
>Can anyone tell me if this sort of arrangement is customary. My local
>stable has never heard of such a thing. Does the arrangement have a
>generally used name? What is the most efficient way to find a horseowner
>who might be interested? Aside from being offered a horse which is morre
>than my limited current skills can handle, what should I watch out for?
>Any other tips or suggestions are welcome, too.
>
> Robin Crickman,
>
I've seen ads in the Sunday Chicago Tribune for people to share the board on
a horse, so such arrangements are not unheard of. Read your local horse
publications, or put up notices in local tack stores and stables.
When you find someone who is willing to share the board on a horse, I
recommend that you put your agreement in writing and both sign it. You should
consider who is responsible for injuries to the horse, when you can ride it,
when the other person can ride it, whether you can take the horse off the
property to shows, etc, who pays for shoes and vet bills and whether you have
to provide your own tack, who pays if the horse is laid up for a long time,
an whatever else you can think of.
Ken Rossen at seismo!bbnccv!krossen is the moderator of a Horse Digest. There
are probably 35-40 subscribers of all experience levels. Send this same request
to that digest and you'll get more information than you'll know what to do with.
Carl Deitrick
ihnp4!ihu1n!cbd
From: ihnp4!vax135!tab (Tracey Baker)
Robin-
I have never heard of a name for this kind of thing, but I have heard
of similar arrangements. A few suggestions:
- I don't know how often you take lessons, but (at least for
a beginner) a lesson once a week is plenty of time
to learn to ride. You really don't need the extra
practice at first, and it can get VERY expensive
on top of lessons.
If you have the time & money & you really want to
get some extra practice in:
- I would not reccomend stables which rent horses to the
public. These horses are often (but not always)
old, nasty, ill or injured, poorly cared for, and
any combination of the above. They are also often
overpriced.
- Try putting classified ad in the newspaper, and/or a sign
on the bulliten board at your local stable(s) (If
there is one, & always check with the management first).
- Ask people at your stable - tell them what you're looking
for and see if they know of any opportunities.
- Go to other nearby stables - ask people there and/or
post more signs there.
- Before you make any kind of agreement, especially with
any kind of signed contract, it might be a good idea
to have someone knowledgeable about horses
look at the animal to make sure there are no
health problems that you could get blamed for
once you start riding the animal.
- Also, make a quick check of the horse before and after
you ride and notify the owner of any problems
IMMEDIATELY.
- Before you decide to do this, you might want to get
a couple of books on basic horse care from the
library for things like problems to look for
when you're riding, proper grooming & tacking,
and anything else you might need to know.
( I don't know if your lessons cover these kinds
of things. Sadly, most lessons don't, and
I have seen people buy horses thinking that they
know everything about thm from lessons, then
find out that they don't know ANYTHING ).
- One last hint - get someone ( a friend, husband, child -
anyone) to watch you while you're riding and
look for mistakes you might be making. It would
be better if they knew something about riding, but
even little things like keeping your heels down is
useful.
- And finally - not a hint, but a STRONG suggestion:
NEVER RIDE ALONE!!!!!!
Especially if you decide to go out on a trail.
Riding can be dangerous, and if you have a serious
fall, it is much better to have someone right there
than to wait for someone to start wondering where you
are the next morning.
I hope this is helpful to you. I am saying all of this
from about 12 years of being around horses (I had my first
lesson when I was about 7 years old). I'm sorry if you know
some of this already, but, as I said before, I don't know
how experienced you are & I always assume the worst.
- Tracey Baker
|----------------------------------------------|
| |
|Tracey Baker |
|Room 4G-637 |
|AT&T Bell Laboratories |
|Crawfords Corner Rd. |
|Holmdel, N.J. 07733 |
| |
| UUCP: {ihnp4,decvax,allegra}!vax135!tab |
|----------------------------------------------|
From: sun!pyramid!octopus!byron (Mike Byron)
>Subject: Re: Time-share a horse? How?
Been 10 years since I was involved with horses, and in was in Seattle, but...
I would guess that sharing horses is a reasonably uncommon thing to do
because they are much easier to handle when consistently used by only one
rider. An arrangement we had a couple of times was to pay for the
horse's board while we used it. This was relatively easy to do, because
many families own horses for breeding purposes, or the child using the
horse was bored with it for the time being but didn't want to get rid of
it, etc. We called that "leasing" the horse, but I have no clue whether
that's a commonly recognized term. We always arranged it thru friends
of friends.
As for things to watch out for -- if you are new at riding, don't make
any long-term commitments. You'll gain a lot of experience hanging
around horse people. It took me about a year to learn what I thought
was important about horses as far as health, gait, amount of spirit, you
name it, and it was a personal thing -- nobody else has my tastes.
Good luck, and I'd love to hear how this turns out for you if you've got
the time. (Sometimes you get swamped by the net and replies are out of
the question.)
From: mmm!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!pyramid!octopus!harvax!natasha
(Natasha Moiseyev)
>Subject: Re: Time-share a horse? How?
It is called leasing. I learned of this practice through my sister,
who is an avid equestrian. She went to every stable even remotely
near our house and finally found a notice advertising the lease of
a Morgan gelding. Leasing is a fairly common practice; lots of
people own horses and need to have them ridden. The one we leased,
however, had to be exercised 5-7 days a week (great if you know
someone who would like to share responsibility). The people fed,
stabled and groomed their horse; all we did was ride it.
I have heard, however, that leasing a horse consists much more
frequently of taking care of it (ie feeding and grooming...the owner
generally provides a stable).
My advice is not to take the first lease-able horse that comes your
way, but to look at a few for character, obedience, energy (some
horses simply won't go faster than a gentle plod), and also for an
owner with whom you are compatible. If you want to jump,
thoroughbreds are good but hot-blooded and often tempermental.
Morgans are calmer and more stable, but less graceful in general.
I've had good luck riding quarter-horses.
Also I have heard that some stables offer horse leasing as well, but
they offer it on a monthly or yearly basis and it is generally about
$1,000 or more.
From: mmm!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!glacier!oliveb!tymix!kanner (Herb Kanner)
>Subject: Re: Time-share a horse? How?
I have a lot of sympathy. The equestrian world does not seem to cater to
people who do not actually own horses. During seven years in England, my
wife and I took riding lessons once a week primarily as a way to get to
ride a horse, although there was significant learning involved.
In this part of the world, California, it is common to see horses offered
for lease. My wife took advantage of such a deal for about a year.
Effectively, the owner decideds that he/she is not using the horse enough
to keep it well exercised and that the cost is becoming a burden. So for
some sum of the order of 50% of the stabling bill, the owner leases the
horse. Usually, both the owner and lessee get to ride the horse for all
practical purposes as much as they want. This, of course can't work if
both people can ride only, say, on Saturdays.
You are right to be concerned about not taking on a horse that is beyond
your current ability. This consideration works both ways. An owner might
worry about use by a beginner deteriorating the training of his horse,
though this concern is often exaggerated.
There is some advantage to taking lessons on the same horse on which you
are practicing. Counterbalancing this is the fact that no two horses are
the same, and you learn a lot by riding a number of different horses, which
is likely to happen in the usual riding school.
--
Herb Kanner
Tymnet, Inc.
From: [email protected] (Balfanz)
>Subject: RE: Time-sharing a horse
At the stable I ride at (in Oswego, Illinois), I know a lot of riders
that lease horses (not hourly leasing). Some of the horses are owned
by the stable. But there are some horses whose owner wants to share
the costs of keeping the horse.
There is one horse I know of whose owner got pregnant and was under
doctor's orders not to ride. So, she reluctantly decided to sell the
horse. There were two riders interested in purchasing the horse, but
neither one could afford it. So, one of the riding instructors
brought up the subject of leasing the horse. Well, the owner hesitated
at first, and then, became delighted with the idea (she would still have
the horse after the baby was born, but he wouldn't be sitting in his
stall the whole time). And, the two riders were delighted because
they wouldn't have the full cost of owning a horse. Also, the two
riders are at different levels of riding, so their riding lessons could
be on different days and they weren't likely to want to show in the same
classes at the horse shows.
I hope this helps shed some light on the subject. I'm not sure of all
of the details (leasing fee, etc.). But, I can say that leasing
(time-sharing) does exist, and has for quite a few years (I remember
trying to talk my parents into letting me lease a horse about thirteen
years ago).
Pat Balfanz
ihlpg!balfanz
From: ihnp4!seismo!harvard!bbncca.arpa!krossen
>Subject: Re: Time-share a horse? How?
Robin,
The short answer is, "yes, it is done."
I don't have time to type in the long answer, but in case you're
interested, questions such as yours are discussed regularly on a "horsey"
mailing list I administer. Are you interested in subscribing? It is sent out
in digest format every week or thereabouts (more frequently than that, of
late), and the topics covered span many equestrian disciplines. The
subscribership (which now tops forty in number) spans much of the US, and
there is one Canadian subscriber.
I've reprinted your article in the digest to garner replies from the
subscribers, and I'll forward replies to you if you like.
Of course, if you'd like to subscribe to the digest, you'll see the
replies that way. Drop me a line.
--
Ken Rossen ...!{ihnp4,harvard,seismo}!bbnccv!krossen
____or____ [email protected]
From: ihnp4!drutx!dcm
>Subject: Re: Time-share a horse? How?
Time sharing a horse is not common. There is no existing body
of language or law that specifically applies to such a thing.
However, I've helped to put together such things for my (too
possesive, but I don't know a better way of saying it!) wife's
students. She has done this sort of thing with her horses and
we have worked out arrangements with boarder's horses. It's
best to think of everything you can, and spell it out in writing
before starting such an agreement. eg.
Who's tack will be used?
In the case of an accident who pays the vet (or the
doctor for that matter. It might be reasonable that
the person letting you use the horse require that you
wear a helmet, it's a very reasonable idea anyway.)
Exactly what time can you use the horse? What if you
can't make it, do you forfeit completely? No precedence
here, you are on your own for what you can work out.
Occasionally, you will find a boarder, who for whatever
reason can't ride for a month or two (job constraints,
illness, difficult pregnancy, 2 months on the Riveara (sp?),
etc.) and will let you have complete use of there horse,
you take over baord payments. The typical arrangement
does not require that you make vet or farrier payments,
unless this would be an extended duration, more than
say 3 months. Sometimes those payments are pro-rated.
Again you are on your own for what you can hammer out.
You might inquire, in any case, whether there is mortality
and/or medical insurance on the horse. What happens if the
horse croaks while under your "care"? Unlikely, but....
The more things that you and the owner can think of to put in writing,
the better off both of you will be, in case, in the unlikely event,
something goes wrong. Also, for both of your protection, I'd would
get the owner to document known vices and propensities, beyond those
of the typical horse (eg. if the horse is barn sour, but not that the
horse eats hay!).
I you have any further questions or comments, please send mail (of your
favorite variety) to one of the addresses below. I borrow an id to read
net.news as not all machines here at ATT receive net.* postings.
Sincerely,
Larry Cler VP
Foxhill Stables, Inc.
ihnp4!drux2!ljc
303-538-1428 (w)
303-457-1622 (stables)
Larry Cler or Nancy Franklin-Cler
Foxhill Farm
1000 E. 160th Ave.
Broomfield, CO 80020
The oppinions above are my own and certainly not those of AT&T!
Horse Pockey!
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Kate Symonds)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: More information on "Strangles"
Date: 2 Sep 88 04:37:55 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Kate Symonds)
Distribution: usa
Organization: NetExpress Communications, Inc., Vienna, VA
strangles is a hellatious bad cold. the glands behind the horse's jaw
abcess. this can be taken care of in a variety of ways - injections from
the vet and waiting for the abcesses to drain and lancing them are two
ways to get the abcesses to clear. strangles is EXTREMELY CONTAGIOUS but
once the horse gets it and survives is not likely to get it again. it
usually occurrs when a new horse is brought area with a new set of germs.
i think its also known as shipping fever for this reason. in any case it
makes the horse extremely sick. how do i know so much? my horse had it and
it left a normally easing keeping horse a bag of bones. she started off with
a sore throat so she couldnt put her head down to eat. i gave her penicillin
and glytucin (horsey cough medicine) which didnt do any good.
my advise to you is not go to the place where the horse had it as you can
carry the germs on your clothes. take a real careful look at the operation
where this happened also. if left unattended, it can kill your horse.i was
lucky but just barely, and only had to spent a month or so getting weight back
on my horse.
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Kitty Cummings)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: strangles
Date: 2 Sep 88 13:09:46 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Kitty Cummings)
Distribution: usa
Organization: SUNY Binghamton, NY
your neighbor had her horse destroyed because of strangles?
strangles is basically horse distemper - it is caused by a bacteria
(streptococcus equi). there is also another form that laymen term
"bastard strangles". Strangles is characterized by large inflammation
around the lymph gland area near the throat latch. Strangles is very
contagious (although rarely fatal unless the horse is already
debilitated or in poor health and condition). It is treated with
antibiotics, although, the trick to strangles is that you don't want to
hit it to hard with antibiotics. The infection must run its course. If
you lambaste it with antibiotics, the bacteria will wall itself off
within the body (meaning the symptoms will temporarily dissappear) and
what ends up happening is that the infection will keep reoccuring (it
will dissappear for a few weeks and then reappear)- this is "bastard
strangles" and it is much more difficult to clear up than regular
strangles. often the vet will also lance the pus pockets that have
formed near tyhe throat latch. Any draining pus, and anything else in
contact with the infected horse must be disinfected or disposed of
immediately and properly as the bacteria can be spread via contact with
the pus, water buckets, direct contact - it can even be carried on the
clothing boots etc of the handler, vet, etc. Infected horses must be
isolated from the entire herd. however, ussually when strangles shows
up in one horse, ussually a whole herd will contract it by the time the
infected one izs separated. Strangles occurs most often on large
breeding farms or slaughter yard holding pens - any where that there are
large numbers of horses kept together in small areas (on large breeding
farms that keep 20-30 yearlings together, etc. strangles is a real
threat.) Young horses are particularly suseptable to it. Again, it can
really drag a horse down, but i have rarely heard of it being fatal
unless the horse was run down to begin with. Also, you can vaccinate
against strangles (check with your vet). Before you take your horse to
board at this place make sure that the anyplace that the infected horse
was kept and equipment used on him has all been properly dissinfected.
also, now a days, strangles is generally considered a disease stemm ing
from poor farm management and conditions. if horses are being stabled
properly (not tomany crammed together in to small an area, are kept in
optimum health - fed well, etc. and incomming horses - new boarders, etc
- are prooperly isolated/quarentined prior to being added to the current
herd, then strangles should rarely be a problem. We have operated a
small breeding/showing farm for 14 years and have never had a case of
strangles and have never vaccinated for it either. i'm curiose though,
as to why the horse was destroyed because of strangles, its not like EIA
(equine infectious anemia) where horses become carriers and there's no
cure so most states require that they be destroyed in order to arrest
the spread of the disease. again be careful of moving your horse to
this place until you have made sure everything is okay, and i would have
him vaccinated. - kitty cummings, kit-mar farm appaloosas
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Kitty Cummings)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: strangles NOT shipping fever!
Date: 2 Sep 88 13:18:38 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Kitty Cummings)
Distribution: usa
Organization: SUNY Binghamton, NY
strangles is NOT shipping fever!!!!!!! Shipping fever is influenza!!!!
which you can also vaccinate against. Influenza also affects the
respiratory system, but is a viral infection rather than a bacterial
infection like strangles.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 88 11:27 CST
From: Cisse Spragins <SPRAGINS%[email protected]>
Subject: Intro
Hi!,
I am a new subscriber as of a few weeks ago and am writing for the
first time after reading all sorts of articles about transporting
horses and bicycles etc...
I am a grad student (physics) at UW-Madison (that's in Wisconsin!) and
am originally from Tennessee. I have had horses continually since the age
of 6 and have dabbled in many different types of equestrianism. I presently
own a 6 year old half arab gelding which I began showing about a year ago
in novice level combined training and training level dressage. I have also
owned the dam of my horse for 17 years. She is a grade pinto (now 27!) that
I showed as a hunter-jumper whenever I got the chance and did just about
everything else with her that you could possibly imagine. When I was younger
I also owned a Tennessee Walking horse and several racking/saddle horses
at different times. As an undergraduate I drove harness racers on the Kentucky
fair circuit (pacers) as a source of summer employment. I only began riding
dressage when I moved to Wisconsin, as where I grew up had essentially
nothing in the way of dressage and very little jumping, which was mostly
hunters. Combined training and Dressage are definitely my all time favorites
and I doubt that I will ever buy another horse for anything else. I am lucky
in that at the stable where I keep my horse, there is a French woman instructor
who showed extensively in Europe before moving to the US.
Anyway....I have a couple of things to offer on past correspondence...
Re: Horse Transportation
The woman who owns the stable where I keep my horse has twice shipped
horses to her daughter at Cornell. She used (and highly recommends) the
following company:
Nationwide Horse Transportation
P.O. Box 5368
Colorado Springs, CO 80911
303-635-1888
303-399-1888
(just in case that poor woman in Massachusetts is still interested...)
Re: University Horse Programs
I know for a fact that Cornell and Wisconsin have horse programs associated
with the university...I don't know much other than that they both own a
number of horses and offer lessons. At Cornell it is part of the Phy Ed dept.
whereas at Wisconsin it is one part of a large recreational program which
includes many sports and is available to staff and students at a very reasonable
fee...
Re: Bicycle Helmets for Horseback Riding
People at my stable were recently discussing this and my instructor
said that the problem with them is that given the terrain that you are more
likely to encounter while riding a horse, injury is possible from sharp
objects because of the slates that are cut in bicycle helmets to make them
lighter. The best thing to wear while riding is an approved eventing
helmet, such as the "Belmont" or a similar type hunting cap. These have
a safety harness rather just a chin strap so that it can't be tipped back
and forth. Any english tack store or catalog should have them..."approved"
is the key word...
Well, I guess that's it for now...if anyone wants to talk about eventing
or dressage then please write!
Cisse
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Sep 88 13:48:37 EDT
From: Ken Rossen <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Intro
A couple notes on Cisse's introductory note (Hi, Cisse!):
Nationwide Horse Transportation of Colorado Springs is now in area code
719, hence the correct phone number:
719-635-1888
We had a funny experience shipping with "Nationwide Horse Transport" --
when we recently had to arrange to ship a new horse from a farm in Canada
to Massachusetts, signals got crossed and both the farm and we ourselves
made arrangement with "Nationwide" for the horse to be shipped. Since
they only get to Canada every so often we called to advise the farm that
there would be another week's wait, and we were told that Nationwide had
informed them that the horse would be picked up the next day! After a
few confused cross-continental calls, we divined that there is ALSO a
"Nationwide" Horse Transporation of CANADA!
Now, THAT company we can recommend without reservation from our super
experience having them ship our 3-year-old gelding who had NEVER been
anywhere in his life. They put him in a box stall even at the normal
shipping price (which was more than fair for such a long run), had
terrific patience with his initial resistance to get on the truck, and
hayed him continuously throughout the trip. We were very satisfied.
Take note, should you need to ship to, from or within Canada.
The folks at Colorado Nationwide were very pleasant to deal with but we
never got to use them. They did refund our deposit promptly when we
explained what had happened.
Other companies we can endorse or pass along endoresements for are Blue
Chip Horse Transportation (1-800-VAN-INFO) and Sid Drexler Horse Transporation
of the northern Chicago suburbs (don't remember just where).
Re: Bicycle Helmets for Horseback Riding, Cisse writes:
The best thing to wear while riding is an approved eventing
helmet [...] "approved" is the key word...
To be more specific, "AHSA Pony Club Approved" or "AHSA approved" are the
key words. Most good tack shops will sell nothing but.
--
[email protected]
------------------------------
End of Equestrian Digest
*********************
|
| 76.12 | Equestrian Digest Issue #111 | LDP::BELANGER | N1FTD 144.910/44.56.0.142 | Wed Sep 14 1988 22:08 | 367 |
| Equestrian Digest Fri 9 Sep 1988 Issue 111
Today's Topics:
info needed on tractors, seeding, horse fencing
Re: info needed on tractors, seeding, horse fencing
Re: More information on "Strangles"
Re: Intro
Re: info needed on tractors, seeding, horse fencing
Re: More information on "Strangles"
More on Strangles
Horse For Sale
Re: More on Strangles
horse bowl
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (XT148-S.NURENBERG)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,rec.equestrian
Subject: info needed on tractors, seeding, horse fencing
Keywords: tractor farm
Date: 6 Sep 88 12:58:46 GMT
Organization: AT&T, Middletown NJ
I have a 6 acre property that we are trying to setup
for horses. Anyone have recommendations on:
1) Tractors for cutting the lawn and pasture
2) Seeding to start a pasture
3) Horse fencing
Thanks,
Steve
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Steve Frysinger of Blue Feather Farm)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: info needed on tractors, seeding, horse fencing
Date: 6 Sep 88 18:48:15 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
I recommend buying an old farm tractor rather than a new anything.
For example, about 1.5 years ago I bought a Ford 9N (built between
1939 and 1947). It's 25hp, 4 cyl water cooled, has a category 1
3-point hitch (which is definitely what you want in any tractor),
and I paid $1400 running (but not battery charging)! I put another
$200 or so into some miscellaneous parts (which were available IN STOCK
at the local Ford Tractor dealer). I often see its newer sibling, the 8N
(built beteen 1947 and 1953) for around $2400. These tractors are not
considered antiques because they keep on running; there are still thousands
around doing daily work. And it beats the heck out of laying out
$4000 - 9000 for an overgrown garden tractor. They're also extremely
easy to maintain and work on. Back then folks built things SIMPLE and
SOLID.
For pasture mowing, you'll want either a 5 or 6' brush hog rotary
mower (I paid $500 for my 5' new), which can clear "brush" with trunks
up to 2" thick and split most stones. Another alternative is a sicklebar
mower, but they are more expensive and breakdown more often (though if you
plan to harvest any hay you may want one). If you don't have any sod
in your pasture now you'll want a plow (1 or 2 bottoms is plenty for
that sized property; run you around $250) and you'll nedd a disk harrow
for both the original planting and replanting operations (I bought
a used 6' tandem disker for $250; check the papers). Again, I
recommend staying with 3-point hitch implements.
Hope this helps!
Steve Frysinger
It's not how much land you've got - it's what you do with it.
-- Me; I ain't writ the song yet...
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Bob Kinne)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: More information on "Strangles"
Date: 7 Sep 88 15:27:12 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Bob Kinne)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Strangles is a virus caused disease somewhat similar to mumps. There
are many levels of severity. Most healthy, well cared for horses will
recover quite nicely with no after-effects. The most significant
effect is that strangles frequently causes miscarriages in pregnant
mares.
There is a strangles vacine - talk to your vet about the benefits
and risks of this. I would advise against boarding your horse in
a stable where strangles has recently been present. As far as I
know, the disease is transmitted horse-to-horse, so disinfecting
a pasture would be of little value. Most outbreaks occur in the
summer, so after the first cold weather, the risk is much reduced.
Hope this helps.
Bob Kinne Optoelectronics Computing Center
UCB, Campus Box 525 VOICE (303) 492-3330
Boulder, CO 80309-0525 BITNET [email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Dennis M. O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Intro
Date: 7 Sep 88 13:54:31 GMT
Reply-To: oconnor%[email protected]
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center
An article by [email protected] (Cisse Spragins) says:
] I know for a fact that Cornell and Wisconsin have horse programs associated
] with the university...I don't know much other than that they both own a
] number of horses and offer lessons. At Cornell it is part of the Phy Ed dept
Cornell has a well-known veternary school, plus a well-known agriculture
department, both part of the State University of New York ( SUNY ) system.
That's why the horses are there. Cornell offers a 4-year degree in
Animal Husbandry, with Horse, Cattle, Wildlife and Small Animal
specializations. All at standard SUNY rates : ~$750/semester for
full-time tuition for state residents.
Most if not all of the SUNY Agricultural & Technical Colleges offer
two-year Animal Husbandry degrees : there are many of these throughout
the state. SUNY A&T Cobleskill also has a four-year An-Hus program.
Courses available include care, training, management, evaluation,
health, breeding and riding of horses. Crop and forage managment, farm
management, and some personnel management are included in the curriculum.
Most of the Cobleskill instructors ( the only place I have detailed
knowledge of ) are PhDs from places like Cornell : really good people.
Cobleskill maintained ( while my wife was getting her degree there )
over a dozen broodmares of all types, a bunch of geldings,
an anual crop of foals and the yearlings from the previous year.
Riding courses covered English and Western, from beginner to
advanced. A course in packing was also given, as well as a course
on evaluating, training and racing standardbreds.
My wife was very satisfied with Cobleskill. ( It's about 1 hour SW
of Albany, NY : about 1/3rd the way to Binghamton on I-88. )
--
Dennis O'Connor oconnor%[email protected] ARPA: [email protected]
"Never confuse USENET with something that matters, like PIZZA."
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Dennis M. O'Connor)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: info needed on tractors, seeding, horse fencing
Keywords: tractor farm
Date: 7 Sep 88 14:37:33 GMT
Reply-To: oconnor%[email protected]
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center
An article by [email protected] (XT148-S.NURENBERG) says:
] I have a 6 acre property that we are trying to setup
] for horses. Anyone have recommendations on:
]
] 1) Tractors for cutting the lawn and pasture
6 acres is a lot for a lawn/garden tractor, but managable.
Your next step up would be a small ( 50 hp or less )
tractor with a Bush Hog. More capability, but more $$$$ as well.
] 2) Seeding to start a pasture
You can seed with hay by spreading ucomposted horse manure :
the seeds survive digestion. A good, VERY fast growing grass
is Buffalo Rye. The usual hay grass is Timothy. Check your
local Cooperative Extension or equivalent for what grows well
in your area.
] 3) Horse fencing
Saratoga Fence ( a registerd trademark ) is an excelent fence,
made of extruded vinyl. It's flexible, doesn't rot, never
needs painting and horses don't chew on it. It's also expensive.
Second choice would be wood rail fence with hot tape run inside.
Still not cheap, but very effective. Works year round.
Third ( and what I use ) is two lines of hot tape on fiberglass
posts. However, the snow up here in New York makes this unusable
in the winter ( bends the poles down to the ground : they spring
back up when it all melts ) and occasionaly a horse nocks it
down ( usually when the ground is muddy and the horse slips
into it ) and escapes. The situation our paddocks are in is such
that the horse isn't liekely to get in trouble if it escapes,
so this is not a problem for us.
"Hot tape" is a woven plastic tape, about 1/2" wide and 1/16" thick,
with 7 thin stainless-steel wires run through it. We electrify
ours with a solar-powered charger from Parmak : it works GREAT.
The advantage of hot tape over regular wire is :
1. Increased visibility ( the stuff is orange )
2. Ease of use ( we fenced in an acre in 3 hours )
3. Very safe : won't cut a horse up
4. Easy to repair : just tie it back together
A varient uses a plastice cord instead of the "tape" : this is
less expensive, just as safe, but less visible. We actually
use "tape" for the top line and "cord" for the bottom.
Costs :
Solar Powered Fence Charger ( will do 25 miles of fence ) $175
Posts, Hot Tape, Insulator about $0.15-$0.20 per foot
] Thanks,
] Steve
--
Dennis O'Connor oconnor%[email protected] ARPA: [email protected]
"Never confuse USENET with something that matters, like PIZZA."
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Kitty Cummings)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: More information on "Strangles"
Summary: strangles misinformation
Date: 8 Sep 88 15:17:32 GMT
Organization: SUNY Binghamton, NY
sorry bob, but the information you are disseminating is incorrect. are
you possible thinking of rhinopnuemonitis (which is a highly contagious
virus transmitted from horse to horse which causes a high rate of
abortion in exposed mares - in fact, pregnant mares should receive rhino
vaccines a 5, 7 and 9 months during the pregnancy)
strangles, on the other hand, is (as I stated in a previously posted
message) is a bacterial infection similar to distemper in cats and
dogs.it is characterized by a high fever and a pussy discharge from the
nose. the glands under the jaw will also become enlarged and eventually
break open and drain a pussy discharge (these should be lanced by a vet
if they have not broken open). the disease is treated with antibiotics
and is extremely contasgious even with contact with infected items
(pasture, bedding, etc) please make sure info you give out net-wide is
CORRECT -please. missinformation can be very harmful
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Donna Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: More on Strangles
Date: 8 Sep 88 13:45:19 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Donna Mitchell)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo
My vet was out yesterday, so I asked him about strangles.
That sure opened up a long conversation!
Seems there is two DIFFERENT strangles. One is from Streptococcus Equi
and is also called distemper. The other is bastard strangles or
dryland distemper and is from Corynebacterium Equi.
Bastard strangles is relatively harmless: The horse gets swelling that
becomes a lesion. The lesion drains and eventually closes and the
horse recovers. No medication is recommended other than flushing the
wound with water then betadine. There can be complications: mares
abort foals, etc. But basically, it isn't too much to worry about.
Streptococcus Equi is another story. Foals get this easily. 90% of
the time it is nothing more that a high fever and a soar throat, maybe
a snotty nose. 10% of the time is causes lesions. Foals get over it
and are immune for life.
This strangles effects the lymph system and the immune system. And,
thereby come the problems. If an adult horse gets Streptococcus Equi,
it can be deadly. They can get Purpura Haemorrhagia. This causes severe
weight loss, and the rear legs swell...like elephantitus. If this
happens, the horse usually dies. The swelling isn't a sure sign
though that the horse has Purpura Haemorrhagica. The main thing is
that the immune system shuts down.
My vet said that while Streptococcus Equi is easily spread, it isn't
hardy. Exposure to the sun for even a day will kill it. Disinfecting
an area while the horse is sick is a good idea, but once the horse is
well, it doesn't accomplish much. Flys, wind, anything can spread it,
so if another horse is within "fly" distance, it is exposed. All
this keeping in mind that if a horse had it as a foal, it is immune
to it!
Now, vaccinations against Streptococcus Equi. He recommended against it.
He pointed out that it is a VACCINE...needs yearly boosters to maintain
the protection. Places where large numbers of horses, particularly
foals, are kept like the vaccine, however, he gave this example:
A foal is given the initial three shots: at 3 months, 6 months, and 9 months.
Then every year after that it will need a booster shot. As long as
the people continue the boosters everything is fine. Let's say the
horse is now an adult and is sold to someone. They don't realize
the importance of the boosters, so the horse doesn't get them. BINGO!
Adult Streptococcus Equi.
If on the other hand, the foal had been ALLOWED to have Streptococcus Equi
when it could easily recovered from it, it would be immune for life!
Quite a topic, isn't it!
Donna
[email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Jody Ernest)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian,rec.pets,misc.forsale
Subject: Horse For Sale
Date: 8 Sep 88 20:56:16 GMT
Reply-To: (602) 899-5824
Organization: Motorola Microcomputer Division, Tempe, Az.
Registered Appy gelding, 16 years, 15.2 hands.
Great hunter-jumper, also western, trails well.
No bad habits. $1200 or best offer.
Please call (602) 899-5824.
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Kitty Cummings)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: More on Strangles
Summary: a cheer for good info
Date: 9 Sep 88 12:10:45 GMT
Organization: SUNY Binghamton, NY
thanks for the good olid, streight-from-the-vet info. thats the kind of
info that is herlpful, not harmful, to others
i would like to say again, though, that strangles (in this day and age)
is often an illness associated with poor care and management. I do not
want to "let" my babies get strangles- in fact, non of my foals (or
adult horses) have ever had strangles. It is most often seen in areas
where large groups of horses are stabled in close quarters (ie. breeding
farms with large groups of yearluings pastured together) or livestock
yards/auctions, or when incoming horses are not properly isolated prior
to being introduced to an existing herd.
Horses on the road (racing, showing, etc) are more prone to coming in
contact with the bacteria, than are horses who never leave the farm. if
your horse is being stabled at ddifeerent show grounds, etc, make sure
the stall you are assigned is thouroughly cleaned (all bedding,
everything) before you rebed it and put your horse in it (a little lyme
on the stall floor won't hurt either) also, do not allow others, even
friends horses to use your water/feed buckets (unless they are horses
that are stabled together at home).
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Kitty Cummings)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: horse bowl
Date: 9 Sep 88 12:15:30 GMT
Organization: SUNY Binghamton, NY
is anyone out there involved in horse bowl (much like the old college
bowl trivia game show, only questions are all about horses). I coach
the junior, senior and novice 4H teams in my county and am interested in
corresponding, trading ideas, etc with others who work with horse bowl
teams.
------------------------------
End of Equestrian Digest
*********************
|
| 76.13 | Equestrian Digest Issue #112 | LDP::BELANGER | N1FTD 144.910/44.56.0.142 | Wed Sep 14 1988 22:10 | 379 |
| Equestrian Digest Tue 13 Sep 1988 Issue 112
Today's Topics:
Re: More information on "Strangles"
Re: info needed on tractors, seeding, horse fencing
Re: Vet on the Net (was: More on Strangles)
Re: More information on "Strangles"
Re: horse bowl
Textbook info on Strangles
Infectious Horse Diseases
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Donna Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: More information on "Strangles"
Date: 9 Sep 88 13:57:31 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Donna Mitchell)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo
In article <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Kitty Cummings) writes:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Bob Kinne)
writes:
>> Strangles is a virus caused disease somewhat similar to mumps. There
>> are many levels of severity. Most healthy, well cared for horses will
>> recover quite nicely with no after-effects. The most significant
>> effect is that strangles frequently causes miscarriages in pregnant
>> mares.
>>
(Please note previous posting. I had talked to my vet about
strangles.)
This information is correct for BASTARD strangles. My vet DID
liken it to mumps in people. A well-cared for horse will recover,
and mares can miscarriage.
Treatment is cleaning the wound: no medication. Medication will
slowdown the horses natural immune system, thus, causing the lesions
to spread.
>> There is a strangles vacine - talk to your vet about the benefits
>> and risks of this. I would advise against boarding your horse in
>> a stable where strangles has recently been present. As far as I
>> know, the disease is transmitted horse-to-horse, so disinfecting
>> a pasture would be of little value. Most outbreaks occur in the
>> summer, so after the first cold weather, the risk is much reduced.
Please see my posting about the vacine. My vet did NOT recommend
it.
>> Hope this helps.
It was more helpful and friendly than the person who responded
to your posting.
>> Bob Kinne Optoelectronics Computing Center
>> UCB, Campus Box 525 VOICE (303) 492-3330
>> Boulder, CO 80309-0525 BITNET [email protected]
>
>sorry bob, but the information you are disseminating is incorrect. are
>you possible thinking of rhinopnuemonitis (which is a highly contagious
>virus transmitted from horse to horse which causes a high rate of
>abortion in exposed mares - in fact, pregnant mares should receive rhino
>vaccines a 5, 7 and 9 months during the pregnancy)
As stated, Bob's posting was correct for BASTARD Strangles.
>
>strangles, on the other hand, is (as I stated in a previously posted
>message) is a bacterial infection similar to distemper in cats and
Bastard strangles is a bacterial infection (corynebacterium).
True strangles is not, it is Streptococcus Equi.
>dogs.it is characterized by a high fever and a pussy discharge from the
>nose. the glands under the jaw will also become enlarged and eventually
>break open and drain a pussy discharge (these should be lanced by a vet
>if they have not broken open). the disease is treated with antibiotics
>and is extremely contasgious even with contact with infected items
My vet stated that he would NOT treat bastard strangles
with antibiotics! They hinder the horse's immune system.
Streptococcus Equi he would.
>(pasture, bedding, etc) please make sure info you give out net-wide is
>CORRECT -please. missinformation can be very harmful
Dido for you.
Donna
[email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (S. M. Henning)
Newsgroups: misc.consumers.house,rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: info needed on tractors, seeding, horse fencing
Keywords: tractor farm
Date: 9 Sep 88 12:25:42 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill
In article <[email protected]>, (Dennis M. O'Connor) writes:
> An article by [email protected] (XT148-S.NURENBERG) says:
> ] I have a 6 acre property that we are trying to setup for horses.
> ] 1) Tractors for cutting the lawn and pasture
>
> 6 acres is a lot for a lawn/garden tractor, but manageable.
> Your next step up would be a small ( 50 hp or less )
> tractor with a Bush Hog. More capability, but more $$$$ as well.
I have a 17 HP garden tractor that cost over $2000. My Ford Ferguson-System
tractor (circa 1941) cost only $600 and can easily handle dozens of acres
The problem with using such a tractor on a lawn is that it leaves huge ruts
when the lawn is soft. Regarding a mower, on a large tractor, a flail
mower is the best and most compact. It cost slightly more than a
rotary trailer mower. I wouldn't have a sidebar mower because I am too
lazy to keep it sharp. I prefer my garden tractor for plowing snow and
mowing. I keep the Ford for heavier jobs.
**** Lang May Your Lum Reek ****
Steve Henning, AT&T Bell Labs, Reading, PA UUCP: att!mhuxu!smh
>
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Donna Mitchell)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: Vet on the Net (was: More on Strangles)
Date: 12 Sep 88 20:34:27 GMT
Reply-To: [email protected] (Donna Mitchell)
Organization: NCR Corporation, Rancho Bernardo
In article <[email protected]>
[email protected]:
>thanks for the good olid, streight-from-the-vet info. thats the kind of
>info that is herlpful, not harmful, to others
>
My vet was very interested in the NET. He liked the
concept of people from all over sharing ideas...and thereby
learning more about their horses.
He said that anytime a question came up, he'd be willing to
give a vet's viewpoint.
He also said he'd like to find out how to get access to the net.
I told him I'd try to find out if there was a way. He has a
(true blue) IBM XT and a modem. He is fairly computer-oriented
especially for someone who learned on his own.
Any ideas out there? I think it would be a great idea to have
a resident vet from whom we could to get really good information
instead of "well, I heard somewhere, sometime, someplace...".
I know there is something called "portal", but it doesn't get
very good reviews from other users.
Donna
[email protected]
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Dennis M. O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: More information on "Strangles"
Date: 12 Sep 88 21:23:40 GMT
Reply-To: oconnor%[email protected]
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center
Excuse me, but ALL streptococcus organisms are gram-positive
bacteria. Therefor, strangles IS a bacterial infection. Here's
Webster's 3rd International Dictionary, Unabridged :
stran-gles [...] an infectious febrile disease of horses and
other equines that is caused by a bacterium ( Strepococcus
equi ), is characterized by inflamation and congestion of
mucous membranes and a tendency to swelling and suppuration
of the intermaxillary and cervical lymph nodes, usu. affects
young animals, has a low mortality rate, and confers
subsequent immunity after one attack - called also "colt
distemper"; compare BASTARD STRANGLES
bastard strangles [...] atypical strangles in which
abcess formation occurs elsewhere than in the cervical
lymph glands.
Which means that BOTH forms of strangles are bacterial infections,
and in fact implies that "bastard strangles" will grant imunity
to "real" strangles, and vice-versa, as they are the same bacteria.
"intermaxillary" means, essentially, "between the upper jaws".
"suppuration" means "the formation of, conversion into,
or act of discharging pus".
] My vet stated that he would NOT treat bastard strangles
] with antibiotics! They hinder the horse's immune system.
] Streptococcus Equi he would.
Your vet is correct here. Bastard strangles are not dangerous and
are in fact beneficial ( in the same general way cowpox is ).
Strangles kills a horse by suffocation/drowning and therefor
should be treated. The fact that it IS treatable with antibiotics
shows it to be a bacterium : viruses are NOT treatable with
antibiotics ( although secondary infects caused by such things
as viral stomatosis are treatable by antibiotics ).
] [...] please make sure info you give out net-wide is
] >CORRECT -please. missinformation can be very harmful
]
] Dido for you.
I believe the term is "ditto", not "dido". "dido" means
"an absurd, foolish or mischievious act", or "an article
of little worth", or "a frivoulous article of dress".
oh, BTW : ditto for you.
] Donna
Rule 1 of equine health, people : if something your horse is
doing or not doing bothers you, at least PHONE your vet and
describe the symptoms. There's too much disease out there,
some of it relatively new, for amateurs to handle. If you
can't afford vet calls, you can't afford a horse.
but if you're wrong, you have only yourself to blame : not
your friends or netters who gave you advice. Everyone knows
( or should know, anyway ) advice is worth what you pay for it.
--
Dennis O'Connor oconnor%[email protected] ARPA: [email protected]
"Never confuse USENET with something that matters, like PIZZA."
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Benson)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Re: horse bowl
Summary: A friend of a friend manages a horse bowl for her 4H kids.
Date: 12 Sep 88 23:33:17 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories - Naperville, Illinois
> is anyone out there involved in horse bowl (much like the old college
A friend's daughter is involved in horse bowl. Infact they have a state wide
competition here in Illinois. I asked her if the lady in charge would be
interested in corresponding with you and she thinks she would. So I will
give you her address.
Sue Knautz (pronouced Ka-naus)
RR Wolf Rd.
Kingston, Il. 60135
Hope this has been some help.
Pam Benson St. Charles, Il.
and Navajo Rain Dance
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Dennis M. O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Textbook info on Strangles
Summary: bacterial contagious dangerous infection
Keywords: strangles textbook
Date: 13 Sep 88 12:22:49 GMT
Reply-To: oconnor%[email protected]
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center
Info on STRANGLES, based on the data in
_Horses in Health and Disease_
by James L. Naviaux, D.V.M.
SF285.3.N38 636.1 ISBN 0-8121-0935-X
copyright 1985 Lea & Fester
Strangles is "an acute respitory disease ... characterized by
a thick nasal discharge and the formation of a mandibular
lymph gland abcess under the jaw".
Cause : Streptococcus equi, a bacterium, can be found in the
nasal discharge and pus of the infected horse. Young horses
most succeptable and "often" aquire permanent imunity.
Water troughs mentioned as one "ideal" means of spreading strangles.
Symptoms : first watery, runny nose; then the discharge thickens and
an abcess under the jaw develops. Fever of 104-106 accompanies early
symptoms. Other symptoms vary. Symptoms occur 10-14 days after exposure.
Affected horses usually recover in two weeks unless complications occur.
Complications occur when the bacterium setle in the lymph nodes
of the throat latch. The abcessed lymph glands cause "strangling".
Treatment is for a vet to carefully drain the abcesses "without
cutting vital blood vessels in the area." The abcesses can also
rupture internally, causing death.
Prevention : A vaccine is available, but because the disease
occurs sporadically, the decision to vaccinate should be made
by consulting your vet.
--
Dennis O'Connor oconnor%[email protected] ARPA: [email protected]
"Never confuse USENET with something that matters, like PIZZA."
------------------------------
From: [email protected] (Dennis M. O'Connor)
Newsgroups: rec.equestrian
Subject: Infectious Horse Diseases
Keywords: strangles textbook
Date: 13 Sep 88 12:27:12 GMT
Reply-To: oconnor%[email protected]
Organization: GE Corporate R&D Center
General horse disease data, based on
_Horses in Health and Disease_
by James L. Naviaux, D.V.M.
SF285.3.N38 636.1 ISBN 0-8121-0935-X
copyright 1985 Lea & Fester
[ note : this is a very good book on general horse care.
Used as a textbook at SUNY A&T Cobleskill. Easy reading. ]
Note : almost all these diseases have a fever associated with them.
EQUINE RHINOPNEUMONITIS : viral "common cold", may cause abortions,
transmitted by contact and "airborn respiratory secretions";
"good safe vaccine" available.
EQUINE VIRAL ARTERITIS : "shipping fever" : symptoms are "watery
nasal discharge, inflamed eyelids, and frequently, swollen
legs and ventral abdomen." Viral, contagious, serious. Call vet.
EQUINE INFLUENZA : acute, highly contagious, viral. : symptoms are
"dry, hacking cough affecting almost all exposed susceptable horses".
Must rest horse 2-3 weeks after illness. Vaccine "highly recommended".
STRANGLES : bacterial, contagious, dangerous. Symptoms : "thick nasal
discharge" and formation of abcess under the jaw. Complications
can cause death. Consult vet for treatment, vaccine information.
PURPURA HEMORRHAGICA : believed to be allergic reaction to streptococcal
infection (e.g. strangles). Symptom : severe swelling in all 4 legs.
Not common. Not contagious. Untreated mortality 50% : call vet.
TETANUS : caused by toxins of _Clostridium tetani_ bacterium, when
bacterium enter wounds. Symptoms : "third eyelid protruding up from
the inner corner of both eyes, covering 1/3 to 1/2 of the eyes."
Untreated mortality 80% : CALL VET. "It is advisable that horses
and horsemen recieve routine tetanus vaccinations." Vaccine effective.
"Tetanus antitoxin should be used" if un-vaccinated horse wounded.
Tetanus bacterium VERY common. Terminal stages known as "lockjaw".
EQUINE ENCEPHALITIS : "Sleeping sickness". Five forms : Eastern,
Western, Venezuelan, Japanese and St. Louis. EEE and WEE are most
common in USA, VEE has ben found in Texas, JEE found in Asia. SLEE
found in USA but is asymptomatic (i.e. not dangerous). Birds and
rodents are reservoirs for viruses. Reproduction and transmission
accurs due to mosquitos. WEE not transmissable from infected horse,
EEE and VEE may be. Symptoms : fever, reduced appetite, difficulty
eating, depression, clumsiness. Mortality is 20% to 90% : call vet.
Vaccination annually recommended.
EQUINE INFECTIOUS ANEMIA : "Swamp Fever" : viral, transmitted by
blood-sucking insects or contaminated needles and surgical equip.
Survivors become carriers : "known infected animals are best
destroyed." Virus found in "blood, nasal secretions, urine, milk and
semen" of infected horses. Symptoms : edema or swelling in all legs,
undulating temperature rise, loss of apettite and rapid weight loss.
Mortality 30% to 70%. NO KNOWN PREVENTION. "Coggins Test" used to
identify infected horses and carriers.
--
Dennis O'Connor oconnor%[email protected] ARPA: [email protected]
"Never confuse USENET with something that matters, like PIZZA."
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End of Equestrian Digest
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