Conference noted::equitation

    Haven't had too much experience with solar powered chargers, but
    I got a battery powered on and hooked up a 6-volt car battery,
    which I recharge about once a month for 8 hours or so.  I even
    hook up a small 6-volt dry cell when I disconnect to charge, so
    the fence isn't dead during that day.  It has worked very well.
    and I had to replace the battery after about three years (it was
    a cheap 36-mo warranty one).

Re: .0 - This is slightly off the topic, but your comment about
	the electric fence being difficult to maintain when the
	grass is tall caught my eye. I too have been looking into
	electric fencing around my farm. The long time cattle
	farmers here all use it for one thing or another. They've
	recommended that I use a biodegradable herbicide called
	"Roundup" to keep the grass down. Apparently, one or two
	applications a year will do the trick. It kills the grass,
	decomposes rapidly, and is not hazardous to the livestock.
	I've decided to try it this coming year as bush-hogging is
	just too much to keep up with.

    
    	I mentioned that I have a great fence charger... goes all year,
    	grass, snow or weeds don't matter.  Still works if it hits the
    	ground.  I have had it for three years.  And it is real 
    	inexpensive to run.  I just can't say enough good things 
    	about it...  it has SAVED me so much work and time!  I used 
    	to come home and have to repair a fence at least three times a 
    	month - and that is tough in the winter.  Not to mention the damage
     	to the lawn as dinkledorf tromps all over it.
    
    	It was made in New Zealand for sheep and cattle - and they really
    	respect it too!  5,000 volts hit that fence and they train to
    	it real fast.  I have gotten "zapped" and it makes your knees
    
    	kinda buckle...
    
    	Susan

    Be VERY careful using ROUNDUP.  It kills anything it touches (including
    trees).  It is more powerful than paraquat because not only does
    it kill the above ground portion of the plant, it is translocated
    in the root system. 
    
    It also can be hazardous for animals.  If you are going to use it, 
    follow ALL the precautions on the label.
    
    Used absolutely correctly, it is a useful chemical.  I've thought
    about trying it out on some of the yucca out here.
    
    Mary Jo

    Re: The solar fence charger
    
    We have been using one for the last 6 1/2 years and just replaced
    the battery last summer.  The battery is continually charged by
    the solar panel (when there is light).  The charger actually runs
    from the battery all the time (i.e. it wouldn't zap an ant on the
    solar panel alone).  It is made by Parmak who makes lots of types
    of fence chargers.  They make a model with an electronic pulsing
    device and one with breaker points.  You definately want the electronic
    version.  We also have occasional problems with weeds and snow but
    it is only a temporary condition.  Once the feel the zap, they learn
    to stay off the wire whether it is on or off.  Any fence charger
    will short to ground given a good enough connection (to do otherwise
    would defy several laws of physics).  If you are close enough to
    a 110V outlet you can get one that runs from line current.  That
    is the best one to have because there are no batteries to worry
    about.
    
    Re: the Roundup.
    
    Be very careful what you apply and where.  In many states there
    are laws regulating the application of pesticides and herbicides.
    Some states require licensing and heavy fines for illegal application.
    Before you say "no one will know what I apply to my fields" remember
    that if you are in someones watershed and pollute their source of
    water, it will be detectable and traceable.  You could be held
    responsible for the fine, damage, punative damages, and the clean-up.
    I am in a watershed area and try to be very careful.  As a result,
    I have placed my wire at a hieght that requires walking around the
    fence twice a year to whip down the weeds.
    
    Regards,
    
    Bob
    
    
    

    
    	I have never experienced the fence grounding perhaps because
    	you must install * 6 * grounding rods spaced 10 feet apart.
    
    	This may not be the reason....  Might it?
    
    	Susan

    Usually you only need one ground (a six foot rod) to be effective.
    My guess is that you probably don't have a good one but if it zaps
    then its good enough.  When it grounds out, you may still get some
    punch from it but it should be minimal.  The bottom line is that
    if you do ground out even a little, you are not doing your charger
    much good.
            
    Bob
    

    Somewhere this note got of track. I never said the fence box we
    have now doesn't work, only when the grass gets high enough to cause
    discharge to ground. I wanted to know about the solar powered of
    which some have commented. Thanx guys and galls. 
    
    Also for thoughs of you who felt we had insufficient ground, I
    experienced inproper grounding setting up a recording studio of
    which this becomes the most serious issue. The best and only way
    to get a sufficient ground is with an 8' copper coated ground rod
    driven into the ground closest to the device and use a heavy gauge
    wire to ground (8 AWG OR LARGER )and pour a salt solution
    around the ground. The salt will aid in conductivity particularly
    when it rains. The next best ground would be if you have a water
    main in the barn. Tie the ground wire to the main using a copper
    clamp this being exacly what the power companies do. The better
    the ground, the higher the voltage present at the plus wire serounding
    the pasture, also for long distance runs (miles), a heavy gauge wire would
    be better.             
    
    Back to the box, I was looking for power conservation in box use.
    I would prefer a box that only discharges when it is ground by the
    animal and not on all the time. This would conserve!!! I was hoping
    the solar powered box would act this way. Does any one know if this
    holds true. If so what brands are you using and where can I purchase
    this unit (in the MASS, NH area)???
    
    Thanx for the replies so far, but again, lets keep on the subject,
    shall we!!!
    
    

    Sorry but the physics of it don't allow selective grounding.  If
    the fence is on you will have line loss from leakage current, 
    hysteresis, inductive loss, and etc.  Unless you have some pretty
    sophisticated electronics (which I suspect haven't been invented
    yet), that wire will have a hard time telling the difference between
    a wet nose and a wet weed.  The real benifit of a solor box is that
    the battery is rechargable and you don't have to buy a new one every
    three months for $4.  You will however, have to buy a new rechargable
    after about 5 or 6 years for $30.
    
    Regards,
    
    Bob
    

	I'm having problems with my electric fence and was wondering if
anyone had any ideas as to what it might be.  I have a 6 volt battery
operated "Bulldozer" fence charger and the batteries are only lasting
3 days (shut off at night).  The fencer was tested yesterday and it
works great.  I checked the fence for any shorting out prior to putting
a new battery last Saturday - everything looked fine.  I'm using Speed-
fence; the ground is a 4' copper pipe.  Has anyone had this problem and
what was the cause?

	Thanks,

		JB

    Many things could affect the length of time a battery will last.
    The first thing that comes to mind is the possibility that your
    ground may not be long enough and/or have a loose connection. We
    have used electric fences for years, and always used an 8' copper
    ground. Just because the fence will still work, doesn't necessarily
    mean the ground is proper. Most chargers will pass current with
    no ground rod at all. Other factors are lenghth of fence, type of
    charger, etc.
    
    You might try a new ground and if your problem continues, exchange
    the charger as it may be defective.

    It doesn't sound right that your batterys are'nt lasting. Before
    we had electric at the farm we were using a 12 volt charger and
    getting 2 months out of a charge on the old car battery we were
    using. Something is draining it. Ours used a pulse so even with
    a ground on the wire it still took a long time to drain the battery.
    I would suspect something wrong with the charger.
    
    Sandy
    

    I have a 6-volt charger and use a 6-volt car battery on it; I, like
    #2, get a month or more per recharge.  I'm using an 8-ft galvanized
    rod for the ground.  Your setup sounds OK, but are you using the
    dry cell batteries?  On a long fence, especially in rainy weather,
    they can go in a week or less.

    
    Hi-
    
    I'm putting this in for my sister that lives in Epsom NH
    (Concord area).  Does any one have a rough estimate on
    the cost of running an electric fence per month??
    
    Thanks in advance for any replys!!
    
    Zina.

    my last house had an electric fence and I estimated it was no more
    than a couple of dollars a month, if that, to run the fence all
    day.  One advantage is that once my horses were used to the fence 
    I did not have to run it 24 hours a day.  Every couple of days I would 
    turn it on to remind them, and if the grass outside the fence is not 
    overly tempting I would go as long as a month without turning it on. 
    
    A good alternative is a solar charger.  The initial investment is
    more but the monthly expense is 0.  Considering the low electric
    bill for an electric charger I'm not sure one expense outweighs
    the other.

    Speaking of solar fence chargers, does anyone know anything more
    about these, like cost, ease of use, etc.? I am thinking of buying
    one to put at the barn where I keep my horse and since it would
    be difficult to run electricity out there, I decided to look into
    solar chargers.
    
    What happens if it is cloudy for a couple of days? How difficult
    are they to install? What re the restrictions?
    
    Sorry for all the questions, but as you can tell, I know nothing
    about them!
    
    Thanks in advance for any information!
    
    Linda
    

     If cost is a concern, try a timer!
     This saves electric and fence chargers...
    
     We feed at 7:00am/7:00pm so the fence turns off from 7:00pm
     to 10:00am the next morning/back on at 10:00am to 7:00pm (15 hours
     off, 9 hours on).
     This way, the fence is only on during the day when they may test
     it. Otherwize its off when they feed and at night.
          
     For us, so far, so good!
    

    We have had a solar charger for about 8 years.  We have had one
    storage battery in that time (about $15).  Original charger was
    about $150.  Ours runs 24 hours a day.  Not sure of how long it
    has run without sun or bright light...will ask my husband this evening.
    
    They like any charger needs to be checked everyday to be sure it
    is not shorting out somewhere but to be honest we have had no problems
    with it.

    Good Luck
        

    I also have a solar charger.  Cost last September was $175.  Average
    range was $125 to $200.  I researched quite a bit before purchasing
    it and I have heard only good things.  Since we've had our's running
    the longest period of time I've had no sun (to speak of) was three
    days, and we encountered no problem.  Battery replacement cost is
    low and the life span is good.  The only restriction that I can
    see is a good place to locate it so your horses can't get to it
    but the sun can.  Unlike an electric fence where it makes no difference
    a solar charger should not be left for extended periods of time
    charged but not active.  It is better for the battery to remain
    in use, so running the fence constantly is not harmful and costs
    nothing.
    
    I have so much faith in mine  that I intend to purchase a second
    one this summer for my vegetable garden.
            

    Thanks for the info! What brands of solar chargers are there and
    what do you feel are the better kind(s) to get?
    
    Linda
    

I'm having trouble figuring out how to set up a solar powered electric fence.

It's the unit itself that I don't know what to do with.  In what direction 
should I face it or does it matter? What should I place it on (can't have it on 
the ground, can I?). Also, I heard I needed it grounded.  How do I go about 
doing that?  Is there anything else I need to do that I'm not aware of?

At my old farm I had an electric fence that I plugged into an outlet in my 
barn so as far as the wiring goes I understand that and I have the plastic 
insulators for both wooden and metal posts already.

I will be leaving the horses out all Summer so I would like to get this up 
asap. (This is in addition to the key-stone fencing that is already up).

Thanks for your help!

Susan

    
    
    I would place the box, on a pole close to your fencing and out of
    reach from your critters. Face it towards the southern sky or in the
    most unshaded direction to get the most charge from it. 
    
    Grounding can be done be driving a 4' ground rod into the ground
    next to the box. Pore a rock salt solution around the ground rod 
    (increases conductivity) and use an acorn nut to attatch the ground 
    wire from the box to the rod. The rod & acorn nut can be purchased
    at a hardware store or electric supply. Ground wire can be the same
    as fence wire.
    

    Thank you for the advice.  We put the electric fencing up yesterday
    and it came out fine.
    
    The only problem we had was that the cylinder of wire was all tangled
    up (like maybe at the factory somebody unraveled it by mistake).
    So we ended up spending almost the whole day untangling it.  If
    I wasn't in such a hurry to get the fencing up I would have sent
    the wire back.
    
    Now we can start the ring.  Fun Fun!!! 
    
    Susan
    

    I have a Par-Mak electric fence box that doesn't seem to be working.
    I've replaced the pulser and fuses, only one of the lights blinks and
    the fence isn't grounded anywhere but still doesn't work.  Has anyone
    ever had to take the box to be fixed?  If so, where did you take it?
    I figure its worth trying to fix before buying a new one, though it is
    over 10 years old, I suppose it doesn't owe me anything!!
    
    Thanks!!

    Is this the Solar kind?
    

    No, its the plug in type.

    re: 8
    
    	I also had (read-> had) a Par-Mak with the same problem.. mine
    	was the transformer.  Check with your grain store - they may
    	be able to send it out for you (I had Agway send mine out).
    	Susan

    This looked like a good note for my question....Has anyone ever seen
    or used a drive thru eletric fence gate? We saw one in the Jeffers vet
    supply catalog that looks interesting. We would like to give the horses
    both sides of the driveway without having to trim along fences on both
    sides. I hate trimming! My husband wants to build a cattle guard like
    you see out west but I have no idea how they are constructed, or if
    they keep horses in.
    Sandy
    

    
    
    Cattle guards are basically a series of round rods spaced about 6 
    inches apart over a ditch.  The animals (cows, horses, etc.) can't 
    step on the round rods without falling through into the ditch.  The 
    ditch is usually 6 to 10 feet wide and about 1 foot deep with fence on
    either side to give the animals no way around them.  
    
    Since most animals are not into pain, they will take one look at the 
    grid in the ground and avoid it.  Most of the farm supply stores here
    (Colorado) carry pre-made cattle guards that are made out of a very
    heavy steel tubing.  Installation is usually very easy and just
    requires digging the correst size ditch and setting the grid into the
    ground.  Cost for the pre-made ones runs about $300.
    
    Pat

    
    
     	We recently bought a solar electric fence charger.
    	and lost the directions.. 
    
    	I don't think I have it right and I get shock when 
    	I touch it..   Which one is the ground and which one 
    	should go to the fence
    
                         ############ (solar panel)
    	                 ____________
                         |          |
                         |  |    |  |
                         |  | 0  |  |
                         |          |
                         ____________
                           ||     || ----> this is white
    
    Thanks                     Both are wing nuts.. 
    
    	Donna

    I have one, The left goes to ground, the right goes to the fence. 
    Sharon

That is how we have it set up.  If the ground is not good enough, would the
charge possibly back up and charge the red metal of the fencer?  I have an
old pipe that I have a wire feeding to.  This is the same pipe that we used
before, but we moved the location and made some fence changes.

Now, I believe the fencer is not totally charged, but is almost there.  Also,
the wire we are using is a bit heavier than we were using.  But, I can touch
the fence and not feel the zap.  Also, as I mentioned, we get zapped when we
touch the red portion of the fencer.

I believe the only place I could have a problem is maybe with the ground.
But I don't understand the function of the ground well enough to know.

Any help?  Up until now, this has been a great fencer.  I am convinced it
is not the fencer, but how I have things set up.

Also, we have two strands of wire on the fence.  Previously, we had both
strands separate.  We then had the hot wire from the fencer set up so that
it was touching both sets of wires.  Now, we have two strands of wire, still.
BUT, we have the hot wire touching only the top wire, and at the gate we
have wired the strands together.  The crude picture is below:


    
                         ############ (solar panel)
    	                 ____________
                         |          |
                         |  |    |  |
                         |  | 0  |  |
                         |          |
                         ____________
         TO GROUND --------||     ||------|
                                          |
                                          |
o-------o-------o-------o--|       |--o---|---o-------o-------o-------o
                           |       |
                           |       |
o-------o-------o-------o--|       |--o-------o-------o-------o-------o

                          /|\ /|\ /|\
                           |   |   |
                           |   |   |
                      ------   |   ------
                      |        |        |
                CONNECTING   GATE    CONNECTING
                   WIRE                WIRE


The left and right pieces of the picture connect, to make a continuous circle.
Any problems with the above?  I know there is normally a wire with an insulated
handle at the gate.  We plan on putting that in, but have not had a chance.
I wanted to get the fencer working, so just put the temporary connecting wires
in place.  Is this my problem?  When I put the handles in place, I plan on
making the hot wire, once again, touch both strands of wire (otherwise the
bottom strand would not be hot).

Ed..

    Your set up sounds ok. The ground is probably no good. In this case the
    light will not go on when you turn the dial to test (the light should
    blink to show you it's working, and that there's a path thru the box to
    ground). If the box is not grounded and you touch it you are the only
    source to ground and you'll get zapped.

The solar fencer doesn't have any kind of test dial.  I am going to assume
that the ground is bad and try to fix that.

Ed..

    
    
    It was the ground.. its' very important to have the ground 8 ft
    in the ground for a good zapp... 

You need to get the ground wire/spike into the water table in order to get a good
ground.  If your water table is low, you might have to go deeper than
if you live on the edge of a swamp.

Also, if the water table drops (in a dry year) you may find you have to 
re-sink your ground wire/spike.

    I've had good results with just soaking the ground near the ground
    (sounds funny, huh?).  Mine is only sunk in about 3 feet, but I still
    get a good jolt this way.
    
    

    Copper coated steel grounding rod available at an electrical supply
    outlet, driven 4'-8' into the ground with a sludge hammer, combined with a
    salt water mixer poared around it is as good a ground as you'll get. 
    
    Dave'
                                            

    My faithful solar charger died this week for good so I've been looking
    into getting another charger.  New solar ones seem to go for about
    $150. so I was looking at a plug-in one. 
    
    I want to hang the new charge on the barn but the guy at Agway said
    that they don't make plug-in (110v) chargers for outdoor use. The ones 
    he had said 'indoor use only'.  Is that true? I'd really like it
    outside by the fence opening.
    
    Maybe theres a catalog I might order what I want from? 
    
    Thanks,
    Sharon

    The Omaha Vaccine catalogue has lots of equipment like that.
    

    
    
    	Central Tractor is another magazine.. I will glady interoffice it.. 
    
    	Donna

Does anyone know where to get a circuit diagram for a battery-energizer for a 
power fence?
Those things are very expensive even when they contain parts for just a few 
dollars. 

Marcus

    This is an old topic, but what the heck.  Reading through the back
    replies didn't answer my question, so I thought I'd see if anyone left
    in here knows about electric fencing. 
    
    First off, I hate the stuff. Absolutely hate it.  It is unsightly, a
    pain in the neck to deal with, and (for me), a costly investment.  BUT,
    I have broken down and installed it because my !*&!*& pony :-) is the
    escape artist of the century and while the idea of her wandering off
    into parts unknown has it's appeals, my mare to who she acts as a
    companion would be horrified.  And what Plympy wants, Plympy gets...
    including a pony.  
    
    I already have post/rail fencing, and already had a ton of wire, so I
    got some insulators and a battery-operated control box.  I
    want/purchased one that was designed for outdoor installation. 
    Actually attaching the insulators to the wire and posts was simple
    enough, as was setting up the control box.  The problem I seem to be
    having is with the grounding it part.  Understand, I know nothing at
    all about electricity, and until reading the instructions had no idea
    that grounding the thing was necessary.  So, I got an 8' copper rod
    and began hammering away at it.  So much for installing electric
    fencing being 'simple', 'quick', or 'painless'!  How have you people
    in New England ever managed to drive a rod 8' deep in this rocky part
    of the country!?! It's still sticking out about 3'.  Hubby and I have
    been taking turns whacking away at it every night.  It'll probably take
    the rest of our lives.  At any rate, it still does not seem to be
    getting a proper ground.  When I attach the ground wire to the copper
    rod and turn on the control box, the fence does indeed power on and zap
    anyone who touches it (including pony!! YAY!), but the idicator on the
    box blinks red, which in the instructions says it means improper
    ground.  
    
    Short of the fact that my grounding rod is only about 5' deep, what
    else could be going wrong?
    
    And, probably a very daft-sounding question, but what happens to
    electric fencing during a thunderstorm? Does it attract lightning?
    Will the ground rod prevent the lightning from running down the wire
    and pulling out fence posts? Is it safer not to have the wire running
    too close to the barn itself to prevent the barn from getting it, too?
    
    

    Linda,
    
    I can't answer all you're questions because, like you, I hate the
    stuff. We've only had electric fence once and it didn't work very well
    because it got shorted out by tall weeds. [Hint: you'll have to keep
    the grass/weeds trimmed underneath your fence! I hate mowing grass!] 
    
    >How have you people in New England ever managed to drive a rod 8' deep
    >in this rocky part of the country!?!
    
    Electricians, phone installers & electrical utility workers do stuff
    like that all the time. Didn't you say that your dad is an electrician?
    Maybe he could tell you how to finish grounding it? Or, if he lives close
    enough, invite him over next Saturday! ;-) Although I do lots of
    electrical work, I've never had to beat a ground rod into the ground.
    The couple times I've seen it done, the guy used a digging rod(read
    spear!) to make a small diameter hole in the ground about 3'-4' deep.
    Then, he put in the ground rod and started beatting it down.
    
    Assuming that you followed the rest of the intructions on grounding the 
    box/fence, there isn't much that could go wrong except defective
    equipment. So, my guess is that the rod's just not deep enough yet.
    
    Re electric fencing & thunderstorms, etc.
    
    The ground rod is supposed to prevent problems due to shorts and
    lightning. But, there are other safety concerns. I recently read of a
    barn fire that was started by a broken fence charger that was installed
    on the barn. The article recommended that fence chargers be installed
    on a post away from buildings. It also recommended that you put the
    charger inside a large rural delivery type mail box to protect it
    from weather. You'd need to cut a hole in the bottom of the mailbox for
    the electric cord to come through. 
    
    john

    If you have anyway to keep the ground moist near the grounding rod that
    will help.  I put mine directly down hill from where I dump my water
    trough so any spills and weekly dumping keeps it pretty wet around the
    grounding rod.  I also ran a second strand beneath the first but only
    attached it to the ground side of the charger.  This makes an excellent
    ground if the horse touches both strands at the same time.  Otherwise a
    poor ground will prevent it from giving a proper shock to the offending
    pony.
    
    Good luck and remember to trim any weeds and branches away from the
    wire.
    
    JW 8}

     
       If you have the rod in 5', that should be plenty deep enough.
     RE.46: This is true, you may need to keep the ground damp around 
     the ground rod. You may want to go out at night when the fence is
     on and check for sparks around the insulators. You could have a bad
     one or the wire could be arcing out on a nail. This would be enough
     to make the light flash. I also run a battery charger and encountered
     all of these problems one time or another. But I must add that I only
     use a 4.5' rod and that was never a problem. 
    
     Tom.

    Thanks for the tips, guys!  Yes, John, my dad is a retired electrician,
    and is coming up tonite to drop off his dog for me to babysit while
    they are off on a vacation.  I do hope to get him to take a look at it.
    
    It's a battery operated box, designed for outdoor installation, and I
    mounted it on a fence post away from all three buildings (house,
    garage, and barn).  The wire stops about 15 feet from the barn on
    either side, too, so there is no direct connection to it should there
    be a problem.  
    
    I'll try wetting the area around the ground rod, which is easy enough
    since I go by that spot several times daily with a hose in tow.  
    
    I'll also try turning in on after dark and checking for sparks, etc,
    which I had not ever thought of.  Good idea!  I don't think there are
    any weeds/branches touching it, but I'll double check that, too, just
    to be sure.  I didn't realize it would short out quite that easily.  
    
    Thanks a lot for the suggestions!
    

Also, try making the shortest 'fence' possible to the charger, to be sure 
that the ground is okay.  It's been a long time since I played with an 
electric fence, but I used to basically disconnect the fence from the charger
and confirm that everything was okay, and then add one section at a time, to
see which line had the short (we were covering 5 pastures/paddocks with one
charger, double line wire around all).

Suggestions, if you haven't done them already
	1) when you put a handle on, make sure the wire attached to the 
	   handle is dead when you unhook the handle
	2) If you are running double lines of wire, make them as independent
	   of each other as possible, so you can have one hot, and the other
	   cold (especially lower one cold, with top one hot).  That way, if 
	   the snow gets deep enough to cover the bottom wire this winter, 
	   you can disconnect it and still have a hot fence.
	3) make sure the wire is *tight*.  Any bagging, especially where 
	   you're running on existing wood fencing, could touch the wood
	   and ground out the fence.
	4) Get yourself a 'fence tester'.  It really helps find where the 
	   invisible problems are (grounding situations are not always visible).



kathy

    Okay,
    
    Next dumb question....several reference were made to the fence
    'grounding out' (Kathy's comment that it touching the wood may cause
    this, for example).  If it's 'grounding out', would it still zap the
    pony?  It did zap her but good the other day when she touched it, even
    with the ground line not being properly installed.  Actually, any time
    I turn it on, ground line attached or not, it zaps away.  Do I have
    less of a problem than I think I do?  
    
    I only have one strand, pony-height at about 2.6 off the ground,
    runs around an area about 100 x 200 (?)...I'm not sure of the size of
    the paddock, but it's not huge.   I have 4 gates, and but the plastic
    handle things on each one.  
    
    Okay....so if to run an electric fence properly you need a ground rod
    8" deep....well, how do those people you see at shows, rides, etc with
    temporary electric around their trailer areas run it? I assume they
    do NOT drive a rod 8" into the ground everywhere they go....are they
    not actually activiting it and trusting that their horses will fear
    it anyway?
    
    Good thing there are people in here more mechanically inclined than I!
     
              

Are you sure the fence manual said the light would be on steadily if 
the fence was properly grounded?  I believe all the electric fencers I 
have come in contact with (literally and figuratively) have 2 lights,
one that indicates power, and one that indicates whether the fence is 
'working'.  The 'working' light blinks, the 'power' light is on or off.
Now, granted, most of the electric fences I've worked with have been plugged
into the barn, and I haven't studied the one battery operated one at the 
farm, but I'd double check.  The chargers usually deliver some sort of pulse,
which is indicated by the blinking light.

Also, where is the water table in your area? 


If the fence is grounding out, the fence won't zap, since all energy is going
right to ground.  (An easy indicator is when the horse rubs itself on the wire 
or leans on it.....they're obviously not getting zapped)

(Not an issue with the grounding problem, but when you put the handles on, 
did you make sure that you have some form of the following configuration:

[box]----------0 ====-------------

where [box] :== your charger
      ----- :== wire
         0  :== loop to hook fence handle to
      ====  :== fence handle

this way, you won't get sparks (and spooky horses) flying if the gate grounds
out when you open it (i.e. you can toss the wire on the ground  without
fireworks.  It's an easy mistake to make to swap the loop and the handle.

    Kathy,
    
    The fence manual didn't specify whether the light would blink or stay
    steady, but it does say that red means a grounding problem, and it is
    most defineatly red. It claims yellow indicates 'warning, check your
    wires', and green is 'all set'.
    
    The water table in our area is very high.  I have a stream running
    about 20 feet from the fence, and when the riding ring was built
    the excavator had to bring in several loads of clay to build the ring
    up high to avoid wet.  Of course, this built up area is where I have
    the charger set, so I can see how I could easily not be hitting water
    with the grounding pole.  I'll try hosing the area down and see what
    effect that has.
    
    I do have my gate handles attaching to loops, and all the handles are
    installed so that they point back towards the charger.  I will check
    tonite to be sure there is no contact with weeds, etc, or the wooden
    rails and posts. 
    
    I'd say from my pony's reaction the time she got zapped that the charge
    is quite strong, she bolted about 20 feet backwards and hasn't gone
    near any part of the fence since.  I don't expect I'll have to zap her
    too often to keep her away, but I would still prefer to have it working
    properly so I can leave in on unattended if I need to.
    
                    

I use one of these for my paddocks (I beleive it is a "Parkman"). The light
blinks red and makes a clicking sound when it blinks. My manual read that if the
light stayed steady red, and/or did not click, that there was a problem with the
ground. 

I know that - with out the ground attached properly - you will not get a zap.

RE: trouble shooting - my poor hubby walked around both fields to remove any
interfering debris when we installed it. I could hear him shout Yow! when he'd
get something cleared that would activate the fence. It was cruelly funny to
hear the yelps in the distance, and we did laugh about it later! I was safely
back at the charger - listening for the "clicks" ;-) 

>RE: trouble shooting - my poor hubby walked around both fields to remove any
>interfering debris when we installed it. I could hear him shout Yow! when he'd
>get something cleared that would activate the fence. It was cruelly funny to
>hear the yelps in the distance, and we did laugh about it later! I was safely
>back at the charger - listening for the "clicks" ;-) 

This is where a fence tester comes in handy - you don't need 2 people.  You 
just walk your line with this hand held gizmo, and every so often poke the
ground into the dirt and hold the tip to the wire.  You can thne see how strong
the charge is at that point.

    Well, my dad looked at it last nite, and the only problem he could find
    was that I should be using copper wire for the ground wire instead of
    what I was using.  We had some, and it's working fine now.  Thanks for
    all the tips!  
    
    I still hate electric, and will only use it to periodically remind my
    pony that she can't escape without getting her butt zapped. So far, 
    so good.  I'm gaining on her in the 'points' department at last! :-)
    

    
    
    Linda-
    Just so you don't feel alone......  We went through 2 grounding
    rods, the first got so bent while trying to sink it,that it was
    no good.  We ended up digging out the area to about 4' w/ the backhoe
    and then pounding it in the rest of the way, and then backfilling it.
    
    Talk about a fun nite....
    
    M

    Yeah, I remember driving my copper ground in... hit it, wait 15 seconds
    for it to stop swaying back and forth (about 20 degrees) then hit it
    again...
    
    Several time I tried to hit it again before it stopped.  What a joke
    that was... AND while perched on the top rung of a step ladder...
    
    :) JW 8}
     

    Re using copper wire for the ground wire
    
    Geez, I'm surprised the instructions didn't tell you to use copper.
    I *think* copper ground is part of the electrical code. Even service 
    entry where the utility line comes into your meter is grounded w/
    copper regardless of whether you're using copper or aluminum cables...
    Never occurred to me that you might have used something else. 
    
    Hey, things like this are what dad's are for right? Besides, it helps
    keep retired folks from feeling left out. That's why I ask my dad to 
    help with projects even though I'd rather work alone ;-)

    I tried whacking the grounding pole in while holding it to prevent it
    from swinging around wildly.  I'm left-handed, and the thumb on my
    right hand is still black/blue from the times I missed.  It is in now,
    though, at last.  I WISH I had the benefit of a backhoe/tractor to help
    dig!  
    
    The instructions said to use the same wire as you used for the fence
    itself, which was apparently a bad idea.  The copper wire worked great,
    though.  I still hate the whole electric fence thing, but it does seem
    to be effective.  Pesky won't venture anywhere near it, on or not.  I'm
    finally gaining on the little hooved brat.  Honestly, ponies oughta
    come with warning labels! :-) 
    

>    that grounding the thing was necessary.  So, I got an 8' copper rod
>    and began hammering away at it.  So much for installing electric
>    fencing being 'simple', 'quick', or 'painless'!  How have you people
>    in New England ever managed to drive a rod 8' deep in this rocky part

    And what are you hammering with ?  Try a real sledge hammer.
    A normal carpenters hammer won't cut it.
    
    Bill
    Who comes from the section of Westford known as "Graniteville".

    
>    I still hate electric, and will only use it to periodically remind my
>    pony that she can't escape without getting her butt zapped. So far, 
>    so good.  I'm gaining on her in the 'points' department at last! :-)

    I have not tried this with my new camera but with my parents
    older one if you videotaped by the fence the camera can "hear"
    the pulse and you can hear the clicking of the fence when you 
    play the tape.

    So do you think horses can tell when it it on ?

    Bill

            

    Re: Bill, your last two notes,
    
    I DID use a real sledgehammer.  I grew up on New England farm.  I know
    better than to attempt such a thing with an ordinary hammer.
    
    My box does make a clicking sound, but it's not loud and so far the
    small pest has not figured that part out yet.  Let's hope she doesn't!
    

    Oh, you thought Bill meant regular sound like we hear? Because he put
    quotes around "hear", I thought he meant the camera picked up
    electrical noise caused by the charger putting current in the wire and
    then turning it off. Isn't that how charger's work without
    electrocuting us and the horses? Anyway, my terminal at home picks up
    such electrical noise(e.g. if I start the washer) so I wouldn't be
    suprised if a video camera did too.
    
    Which did you mean, Bill?

>    I thought he meant the camera picked up
>    electrical noise caused by the charger putting current in the wire and
>    then turning it off. 

    Definition #2.  I was 100 feet from the box.

I just sank a 6' ground rod this weekend, and I don't have a sledge hammer, so I
*did* do it with a carpenter's hammer.  My arm is almost back to normal now...

I still need some electric fencing advice, though.  (It's incredible how little
the people who sell this stuff seem to know about it.)

1.  How to run the hot wire from the charger (in the garage) to the fence?  Can
    I just use a length of Romex (standard home electric cable), using only one
    of the wires in it?  Or do I need to go out and buy special wire for this?

2.  I'm using the poly-tape fencing.  How do you fasten the wire from the 
    charger to the tape?  Alligator clips?  Metal clamps?  And how do you splice
    two pieces of tape together?

3.  The charger says "for livestock, not for pets".  How dangerous is it?  What
    is going to happen if our cat brushes it with her tail, or tries putting 
    her paws up on it?

Thanks,

	-Neil

    for running the hot wire from the inside to the outside fence, you
    should use spark plug wire, Only needed for the hot wire, (the 
    instructions say this). I ignored this and used light wire thinking it
    would be ok, and I could hear it 'snapping' to ground the whole length
    of it.  You can get this wire at an auto supply store, try to 
    get the old type with wire in it and not carbon, although I've heard
    you can use the carbon type by just shoving your wire into the carbon
    center to make the connection. 
    
    I LOVE my electric, it's easy to move in a jiffy when my husband needs
    to get the tractor somewhere, it doesn't bother my dog or cat (although
    I've heard the pig squeel once or twice while learning about it), and
    the horses don't chew it. I can move paddock areas around without much
    bother too.  Our big problem is after we clean the paddock we forget to 
    turn it on a lot, sooner or later they figure out it doesn't hurt to grab 
    a bite of grass under the fence and then they walk through it.  If you 
    have trouble with them going through it, wet the ground around the areas 
    they go through, then they won't try it again. 
    
    Sharon