Conference noted::equitation

    Hi Susan,
    
    Alfalfa hay is VERY green, is not usually coarse and most often
    smells very sweet.  I used to buy a few bales alongside my regular
    hay (Timothy/Clover mix) and mix the two.  Straight alfalfa can
    induce colic if the horse isn't used to it.  I guess it also depends
    on the fields though and what area it's coming from.
    
    -M-
    

    
    	RE: .1
    
    	Thanks.... I did buy one bale of Alfalfa hay last year and it
    	was VERY green... but when I opened it - it was moldy and I
    	never bothered to buy another.
    
    	I know that my nag really likes this hay and God knows he 
    	sure got an ENERGY BOOST!  Now, after our 15 minute warm
    	up we have to go about 4 or 5 miles for him to settle down!
    	But, now that he is in such great shape, I encourage him to
    	"stretch".  I can see why Alfalfa could be trouble if you don't
    	use your nag. 
    
    	I am getting a second batch in a couple of weeks....  I will
    	wait to see how that is.  All I can hope for is that they
    	will stand by their word if I am not happy with the hay.
    
    	Thanks fer ya 2 cents worth!
    
    	Susan

    Regarding the amount of chaf, with alfalfa this should be very much
    present (just look at the truck after it is unloaded).  By the way
    this chaf usually makes a nice treat for your hourse.  When you
    buy the alfalfa it is ok to get it with the top and/or bottom turned
    yellow (as long as it is still green inside).  The bale will cost
    less and the horse won't notice the difference.  When buying alfalfa,
    the larger the leaves the better the quality.  NEVER buy with the
    top or bottom muddy and of course watch out for mould.
    
    		Good Luck!!

    
    	Good....  I do feel better about what hay I have bought... 
    	I have opened about 12 bales so far and all are the same...
    	LOTS of really green chaf.....  he really does like it and
    	woofs it all up - but since never I have never really had
    	this type of hay before - I wanted to be sure.
    
    	Thanks.... fer ya thots.
    
    	Susan

    
             <<< DELNI::WORK$01:[NOTES$LIBRARY]EQUITATION.NOTE;2 >>>
                          -< Equine Notes Conference >-
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Note 1392.0                       Hay questions                       No replies
CSCMA::SMITH                                         22 lines  16-NOV-1990 10:41
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    I was wondering if someone out there could tell me about hay. I
    can pretty much tell what I like and I don't like but the hay I'm
    getting is not consistant and I've had to return two deliveries.
    The first stuff was way overgrown, timothy/alfalfa, but it looked
    more like straw and was dusty. The second was thin grass and was 
    baled loose and damp. It was just starting to smell bad.
    
    I got 30 bales of some GREAT clover/timothy mix from the last guy
    It was bright green and perfectly cured, the horse loved it and
    so did my vet. 
    I got 100 more bales of the same stuff (I wasn't home at delivery)
    and It has NO sign of clover, is 25% brown grass and is very light
    in color, it is soft and seems to be timothy. The horse won't touch
    it. It is not moldy or dusty. 
    The guy I bought it from is very nice and I don't want to lose a
    source of good hay. He will trade it for the good stuff. He is confused
    because he says it is all from the same field. I know that it's
    probably just a different cutting, which is what he thinks, but
    which cutting is it? How can I tell? What do you think?  
    Which cutting should I be getting?
    
    Sharon

    The soft stuff with brown in it was probably an early first cut. Clover
    takes awhile to get tall, so if you had lots of clover, it was first
    cut done later, or second cut. My horses don't like the soft stuff as
    well, but will eat it. I get my hay from three different sources, and
    alternate bales. They get soft one day, timothy/clover the next, and
    alfalfa mix for the next bale. After doing this for awhile, they got
    used to varity in their diets. Now they will eat anything that isn't
    dusty and smells good. The soft hay, could be just fine, but your
    horses aren't used to it.
    Sandy
    

    My gelding was used to a rich alfalfa hay...but I moved him and the 
    quality of hay was not as rich.  He would not eat it, so it was
    getting tossed around and pooped on in the stall.  
    
    The solution was to put up a hay rack, this way hay was not wasted
    and he eventually got used to it.
    
    M

    Thanks for the info. She's eating it now, I gave her the hay she
    was used to and then some of the new stuff to pick at. I guess she 
    just had to get used to it. 
         
    Sharon

    I went to my local feed merchant the other week and I noticed on
    display a bag of alfalfa cubes.  They were quite large about 2" x 2"
    blocks and smelt quite apetising.
    
    I asked my feed merchant if they had any leaflets or information on 
    this, but they did not have any.  I would like to feed my horse on this
    and I wondered if anyone else fed this and if so why, and what were 
    their views on feeding alfalfa.  I have heard that its good for them.
    
    I would appreciate any comments.
    
    Wendy

    I read some articles in Equus regarding the alfalfa cubes.  They did
    2 articles on some horses which contracted botulism-C and either
    got real sick or died.
    
    apparantly the cubes are not processed like grain would be, so their is
    a higher risk of contamination.  My girlfriend and I would hand them
    out for treats.....much cheaper than carrots!  However we both stopped
    this practice.
    
    I do add alfalfa pellets to my mares feed during the winter months.
    
    
    Michele
    

    
    We feed them or pellets to the older horses at our stable.  Be sure
    to add water at least once if you feed dry, they just about triple
    in size/quantity..... 
    
    

    A women at our barn feeds them to her horse who is allergic to hay,
    don't know the details but he seems to do just fine on them..........
    

    re.1 do you remeber what article of equus??? 
    we feed cubes as treats as well.. I know that feeding pellets
    in the place of hay was causing problems (with the pellets compacking 
    in the intestine and causeing problems) but never heard about the hay
    cubes....
    
    I would like to read the article..
    
    
    wendy o'
    
    

    I'll look for the article over the weekend.

re .10  botulism from alfalfa cubes

>    apparantly the cubes are not processed like grain would be, so their is
>    a higher risk of contamination. 
    
Could the botulism cases have been caused by rodents getting
processed along with the alfalfa and then decaying?  It seems
I've heard of that happening.  I don't think clean, pure hay 
or grain could cause botulism; dead mice may have been the 
contaminant.

    
    
    	That was exactly the case, rodents were caught in the process
    	of making the cubes, allowing bacteria to be present.
    

    re: .15
    
    According to the article, your statement is correct.  The alfalfa
    cubes are just compressed into cubes (and anything else which might be
    caught in the bale is included...mice, bugs...).  The process for
    making grain is more complex.
    
    M

    .....
    
    did they say what they were doing to stop that??
    
    		wendy o'
    
    
    

    
    	no, but it was an accident, only happened that one time that 
    	they know of....
    

    re: .18
    
    	Wendy....I haven't had the chance to look for the article.....but
    from what I remember the process dosen't kill any bacteria, so if they
    got contaminated hay, it could happen again.  
    
    M

    I am really worried about feeding my horse these alfalfa cubes.  
    I have never heard of them being unsafe to feed to horses or 
    rodents getting suck in the cubes and rotting.  Maybe its a different
    process over here in the UK than in the States.  I am sure if they 
    were not safe to feed to horses then they would be taken off the
    market.
    
    I am sure they have been thougherly tried and tested before they 
    are sold on the open market.  
    
    It is interesting to hear comments on alfalfa, I was always lead to 
    beleive that alfalfa was good to feed to horses, I may be wrong.
    
    Wendy
     

    yea i guess youre right.. I guess if i had a horse that couldnt eat hay
    rather than put him on pellets and dont know if i would want to take a 
    chance with the cubes... I was gonna buy some for my bunny.. but now 
    i will just give him hay...
    
    p.s last yes you're right alalfa is the best hay you can give a horse
    (my choice) but around the east, they have such cr*ppy hay, instead of 
    having it sent form the midwest, people either buy less expensive of
    the two (cubes) or buy canadian/local hay...
    
    i dont six half dozen reason or another..
    
    	wendy o'
    
    
    
    		wendy o'
    

    Last winter I went on vacation to St Lucia and rode there at Club Med.

    The only hay fed was cubes.  It is impossible to get anything
    else down there.  

    I thought moldy hay is what kills horses, you either have good quality
    hay or you do not, bale or cube probably does not matter if it
    is done right.  (I think hay has to have a higher moisture content
    to be cubed than baled.)

    The instructor also showed me that the horses love bread.  
    She said they feed bread to horses in France all the time.
    (Some of the instructors were from France).

    I just thaught I would give you an update.  I talked to my instructor
    about feeding these alfalfa cubes and they suggested that I solked them
    in water before feeding.  I did this at the weekend, and they really 
    did swell up!  I was VERY supprised!  
    
    It did not say anywhere on the feed sack about solking them before 
    feeding.  
    
    Wendy
    

    Here in Southern Ontario we had a very wet summer and most of the first
    cut of hay was taken beyond its prime or was rained on at least once
    before being baled. The second cut came off better but because alfalfa
    regrows faster than grasses it is too hot for the old nags we should
    but don't seem to find time to ride. Have to shop for 100 bales to
    finish the season and I agree the quality of hay varys from purchase to
    purchase but fortunately I know several farmers that still do square
    bales. The trend seems to be toward large round bales. I would never
    think of using cubes, the cost must be high.
    
    dan 

    Here in central Maine, last year"s hay crop was fair to midland. We had
    a wet summer and farmers had a hard time to get enough drying time for
    there crop. Where starting to have the same problem with the
    availability of square bales. Many farmers have switch to the large
    round bales because for them, it save"s on labor cost etc..
    I personally know horse people up in more northern countie"s of Maine
    that had to switch to round bales because they could not find any
    square bales. I expect the same problem will arise within a few years.
    
    
    
                                                         Greg
    

    Does anyone have ideas for feeding hay from large round bales? We like
    to limit the amount at each feeding so free feeding is not possible. I
    would be interested in methods of reducing the large bales to more
    usable sizes short of using a chainsaw.
    Dan
    

    I have seen a picture in the DRAFT HORSE JOURNAL were farmers out in
    the midwest made or bought a special hoist that picks up the bale and 
    you just pull the ammount of hay you want, it unrolls like paper towel
    would.
    
    
    
                                               Greg

I would think if someone is going to cut hay for sale, they would have to cut it
and bale it such that the public could handle.  While I understand that it is
more efficient for the farmer to use the round bales, I would not expect these
to be very saleable, as most people could not handle them (lift, use, etc.).

I am surprised to hear that the traditional rectangular bales are disappearing.

Ed..

I have been really discouraged trying to find consistantly good local hay.
Even though the price is right I end up using a lot of it for mulch.
How is it when you buy Canadian hay? Can you count on it always being
good? I'd rather pay more and not have to pick through it but I'm worried
about buying any hay without seeing it first. 
    What do you think?
    
    Sharon

    Re .30 - Having always bought Canadian hay, and having always rec'd
    very good quality without one bad bale yet (knock on barnboard :-))
    without seeing it first, I'd say you should give it a try.
    
    I'm not sure where you are located, but I get my Canadian hay from
    Ferestiens Feed & Farm Supply, Foxboro, MA (508) 543-3613.
    They sell by the ton, and are very popular, so if you order from
    them, plan on anywhere from 1-4 weeks for delivery.  The price
    varies according to what time of year it is. (They can be expensive)
    
    However, if you want to save money and still get good quality,
    see note 175.21 & 175.22.  Both sell good quality hay, (I have
    tried some from Bob, and my horse loved it!) and they deliver, too.
                                                                  
    ** BTW, if you get any "bad" bales from Bob, he will replace them
    next time, free.  (just put them aside)
    
    Bill offers a discount for over 300 bales.  I have seen his hay,
    also, and it is of the same quality (and looks like) Canadian.
                                                         
    Tell them Lynne sent you!        
    
    L-             
    

    Does anyone out there know how to go about growing and harvesting their
    own hay?  I've recently moved to a farm that includes 7 acres of
    hayfields.  The previous owner said the land produced 400-500 bales per
    year.  She had an arrangement with a local farmer, whereby he would
    fertilize the fields each spring, and then cut and bale the hay for
    $2.50 per bale.  
    
    So this sounds fine, and I could just let it go at that, but I'd like
    to know more about the whole process.  
    
    Thanks,
    -ellie

    
    
    I strongly suggest going to your Cooperative Extensive Service to get
    information on hay and forages.  The Extension Service should also have
    an Area Agronomist available.
    

    We have had excellent hay and straw from last years crop.  They usually
    only bale it (as opposed to round bales) when they know it's for the
    horse market.  Most cattle farms or ranches tend to round them but free
    feed (the deer also know where to go which p**ses off more than a few
    farmers).  We - in Alberta - export our hay and oats all over the world
    including UK and Kentucky.  Hopefully this year will also be good.  We
    have all sorts of mixtures but it the timothy and alfalfa mix that seem
    the most popular.
    
    Linda

    The farmers around my area only charge $1.00/bale to cut and bale it,
    but this does not include fertilizing the field.

    re -1.  Yes, I thought that $2.50 per bale was a bit expensive, too.
    Especially since I've sometimes been able to *buy* it for that amount
    off the field.  Where are you located?  My farm is in Chelmsford, MA.

    I'm in the Brookfields, MA.  I pay $2/bale for my hay, which is good
    hay, after it's been put up in the barn.  If I wanted to pick it off
    the field it'd be $1.75.  The bales are about 60-65 lbs.
    
    Kathy

    Last weekend I finally got around to buying hay.  The content is
    timothy and grass. The price   $1.35  a bale.
    Dan