Conference noted::equitation

    There are many things to look for when buying a horse, and yes you
    look at different things on a younger horse than you do on a mature
    horse.  Maybe if we had more information on what you want to buy,
    we can give you more specific information.
    
    In general, you might want to pick up a copy of a breed standard
    to see if the horse you are looking at matches up to the breed.
    For example, the conformation and breed characteristics of a Quarter
    horse are different from those of an Arabian.  
    
    What do you want to use the horse for (ie. riding (English or Western),
    driving, jumping, etc.).  Are you planning to train a young horse
    yourself or do you want one that is already trained?  Do you have
    any age or height preferences?  
    
    If you are looking at young horses,
    it is often difficult to predict what their mature height will be,
    and you might want to have x-rays taken to see if the knees have
    closed up or not (indicating more height growth or not).  In any
    case, you should bring someone with you who is an experienced horse
    person and can tell you if the horse has any conformation faults
    that will make it difficult to perform the kind of activity you
    want to do.  Finally, have a veterinarian perform a pre-purchase
    exam on the horse before you buy it.  
    
    Give us more specifics on what you want for a horse, and what you
    plan to do with it and we can give you some more answers.
    

    The first thing you want to look for when buying a horse is whether
    it fits your needs.  For example if you are looking for a trail
    horse, you probably don't want to go out and look at Class A show
    stallions.  Decide what you want to do with the horse, then tell
    the seller what you have decided on.  This doesn't mean you can't
    change your mind but it will help the seller to know whether the
    horse he is selling is suited to that.  
    
    Get someone to help you look if you are not experienced.  An
    experienced horseperson can help you to select the horse for your
    intended purpose.  They can also often help you to understand if
    the horse is worth the price being asked.
    
    Look at lots of horses!!!  I can't overstate this point!  You may
    think that the first horse you see is the most beautiful one in
    the world but resist the temptation to buy it on the spot.  After
    you've looked at many horses, you can begin to be objective at
    selecting one.  I discourage new horse buyers from buying one of
    our horses without looking at others to compare it to.  We're in
    this business for the long run and the best form of advertising
    we have is referrals.  In my opinion, the only good sale is one
    where both the seller and the buyer stay happy.
    
    If you are a first time horse owner, I reccommend that you do not
    buy a very young horse (i.e. less than four).  Young horses require
    lots of attention and training other than saddle breaking.  You
    are much better off having a horse where someone else has gone through
    that stage.  As you become more experienced you should think about
    a younger horse.
    
    If you don't do anything else, have a horse/foal/pony/donkey etc
    vetted out.  That means a licensed veterinarian (of your choosing
    not the buyers) checks the horse out medically before you pay the
    first dollar.  If anyone insists that you use their vet or that
    you don't need a vet check, don't walk but run away from there.
    No reputable seller will try to talk you out of a vet check, even
    if they had one done the week before for someone else.  You'll have
    to pay for it yourself but it will be the cheapest insurance you'll
    ever find.
    
    Good luck on your horse hunting
    
    Bob
    

    After you've found the horse of dreams, try to lease (with the option
    to buy) this horse for a month or two to see what he is really like.
    Horses will act very differently for different people. You can find
    out if the both of you can work well together and find out what
    his bad habits are. The horse may work beautifully for the current
    owner, but resent every one of your aids when you get him back to
    your barn. The month or two time frame gives you time to learn
    objectively about your find and give him time to adjust to you.
    
    Vicky

    I would like a large horse, 16 - 17 hands high.  mostly for pleasure
    and trail rides.  maybe alittle jumping.  I love horses and dont
    have alot of money to spend on buying one.  I usually look in the
    want ads, and they always have young horses in there for reasonable
    prices.  So i was thinking about a 3 or 4 year old.  Alot of these
    horses are usually pretty green.  there are usually alot of
    young thoroughbreds in there but I wounder if there are bad news
    where people race them and all. I also dont mind a spirited horse
    in fact I like the challange.
    

    One thing to remember, most every horse in a reasonable price range
    will have something that isn't right or perfect. Know what you can
    live with and what you can't. Liesl

    What is your riding experience?  Have you ever trained a horse on
    your own or taken riding lessons?  For what you want to do (trail
    riding and some jumping) you will probably be better off with a
    horse that is 7 years old or older that has been trained to jump
    and that is known to be civilized on the trails (ie. that is not
    easily spooked).  Did you want a big horse because you are tall?
    There are many horses that are 15.2 - 16.1 hands, that are big boned
    and very able to carry a big person.  Sometimes with the really
    tall horses (17.0 h) you have more difficulty on trails that have
    low branches or sharp turns where a shorter horse has more agility. 
    
     If you want to have fun with your riding, there
    is nothing worse than trail riding on a horse that shies at every
    leaf that rustles or every twig that breaks, also, a steady reliable
    horse makes a better jumper because he won't be the type to run
    out or refuse a fence that is brightly painted or unusual looking.
    
    If you look a horses that are 10 years old or so, the prices are
    not usually as expensive as a horse that is between 3 and 8 years
    old, and chances are they have plenty of spirit left when needed,
    but they are more sensible than the younger horse.
    
    The lease situation mentioned before is really ideal, but not many
    owners will go for something like that because it is a risk on their
    part, and there is the possibility that the horse will come back
    to them.                                                           
    
    As far as breed types, anything such as a QH, Arab, Morgan or crossbred
    would make good all round horses (the cross breds are usually less
    expensive).  Even something like a Tennessee Walker or Paso Fino
    are horses that are known for their very smooth gaits, which is
    good for pleasure riding.  Sometimes places that give riding lessons
    have school horses for sale, and most of these horses are very placid
    and sensible.  I would only go to a reputable stable whose horses
    look like they've been taken care of properly, and who aren't used
    for 4 or 6 lessons in a row each day.
    
    I can't warn you enough about the ex or current race horses.  I've
    seen quite a few in the past 3 months, and 9 out of 10 have had
    something done to their legs because of injury and are racing on
    medication of some type.  The prices are usually cheap because the
    trainers/owners are not making money by racing them and they don't
    have the time to spend to condition them properly.  The horses usually
    need a couple of months out in a paddock to relax, then they need
    plenty of time to slowly be retrained.  All they have been taught
    is to run in a group, so if you took them out on a trail with other
    horses, what do you think they will do?
    
    

    Thanks for the information it is really helpful.
    
    The horses that shy... is this a habbit that can be broken?  and
    how about other bad habits?  I have seen horses that crib, weave,
    suck wind and stamp there feet.  I have also seen horses that are
    cow halked.  Is this a big problem?

    Any time I've sold a horse, I've offered to loan the horse to the
    buyer for a trial period.  In all but one case, the buyer did that.
    I would rather the buyer be satisfied before he purchases the horse;
    he's more likely to come back to see me for another horse later.
    
    I have the buyer sign a release form that holds him responsible
    for the horse's well being while the horse is in his care.  That
    includes full payment should the horse expire through his negligence.
    My release form also frees me from liability should the horse hurt
    the buyer, another horse or property, or itself, while in the care
    of the buyer.
    
    I think it's a great idea to be able to try out the horse first.
     Also, if you're serious about jumping or anything more stressful
    than trail riding (such as cross-country), I would have the vet
    X-ray the legs.

    I meant to mention that it may be worthwhile for you to read through
    a horsemanship book (such as the British pony club book) to learn
    about anatomy, different kinds of horse for different kinds of riding,
    tack, care, etc.
    
    Owning a horse is great fun -- but, it's also a great responsibility.
    Make sure you can take on that responsibility, either yourself or
    with a reputable stable that routinely feeds on time, worms regularly,
    calls the farrier or vet when needed, etc.  
    
    Another thought (which may have already been presented) is to take
    lessons before you buy anything.  You may discover that you prefer
    one riding style over another and can then gear your horse search
    in that direction.

    re .7:  If you can stay away from a horse that has any bad habits
    you will be better off.  Most of those habits cannot be broken and
    just cause you a lot of aggravation.  If a horse has slight cow
    hocks, it will not affect his way of going, but avoid anything that
    has obviously poor conformation in any part of its body.  Remember,
    in most cases you get what you pay for.

    Amen!  Get off to a good start with a horse by choosing one with
    good habits.  And, unless you really know what you are doing, select
    one about 6+ years of age who has been trained to the style of riding
    which you prefer.  Buy from a reputable seller, who can offer
    references.   Most trainers will assist you with the purchase of
    a horse, for a fee. 
    
    Slight defects of conformation are ok.  However, as other writers
    have pointed out, have the horse you choose THOROUGHLY vetted,
    including xray of the front feet.  Don't economize by skipping the
    xrays!  A horse may have serious foot problems in process which
    have not yet become obvious or which are disguised by a healthy dose
    of bute.
    
    As the previous writer indicated, with horses, if the price is too
    good to be true, then it is probably too good to be true.

    Hi there.
    
    I am seriously contemplating purchasing my own horse, and would
    appreciate any advice from you experts out there with regard to
    reputable retail barns in the Massachusetts/New Hampshire area for
    dressage/hunter prospects.  I would prefer to stay under $4000,
    so top notch breeding farms would probably be out of the question.
    
    I could also use some advice on some good boarding stables (would
    prefer one with an indoor riding arena) in the
    area. I have leased on and off for years, and have been exposed
    to the following facilities (I'll give you a little update on each,
    for anyone who is interested):  Black Oak Stables, Hamilton, Ma.,
    $390/month -- A wonderful facility.  Takes excellent care of the
    horses, has Bradley-Palmer State Park in the back yard and a large
    indoor riding arena, outdoor jumping and dressage area, 
    large stalls -- problem: a little pricey and the waiting list is a
    mile long;  Danvers Coop, Danvers, $290/month -- not bad. Has indoor
    arena and nice boarders, as well as outside dressage ring and jumping
    area and, again, a long waiting list;  Renaissance Farm, Manchester,
    Ma., $380/month. I have serious objections to the the way the owner
    runs stable -- she's not honest in her dealings and treats her horses
    badly;  Revere/Saugus Riding Academy, has gone 4-H and has livestock
    running loose in the indoor arena -- boarders are exiting in droves;
    Hamilton Equestrian Center is far too expensive for what they offer
    ($600/month).  I'm not wild about the stalls at Andover Riding Academy,
    but know nothing about the management there.
    
    Other than that, I know very little about any other stables in the
    area.  Any help would definitely be appreciated.  As you owners
    know, investing in your own horse is a huge undertaking (and a scary
    proposition), and I only want what's best for my beastie.
    
    I can be reached at USWAV1::ARSENEAULT.  Thanks for your help!!!
    
                                 -- Lisa Arseneault
    

    All I can say is check the want advertiser and make sure you get a vet
    check by a reputable vet. Also, see if you can lease the horse you want
    for a couple of weeks to a month.
    
    I know that there are a couple of horses for sale in my barn. One is
    a dark bay thoroughbred - his knickname is Jack. He's big (heaven forbid 
    trying to get on him bareback!) and has been trained in the basic dressage
    with some shoulder- in, collecting, flexing, and also some low jumping
    (1 1/2' - 2').
    
    There's also a chestnut quarterhorse - Winchester, for sale. He's a big
    guy (16-2) and looks like he'd make a great eventer but I've never
    ridden him. Someone was riding him last summer for about a month but 
    now no one does. Unfortunately, the owner doesn't seem to care about
    his horse, so Winchester is neglected (needs TLC) in the emotional
    sense of the word. If I could afford another horse, I would look into
    Winchester but.....
    
    From what I've heard it's a buyers market since feed is going up and
    evidently there's a glut on the market.
    
    Good luck!
    			Cindy
    

    
    
    	RE: 815.1
             
    	Cindy-
    
    	Where is this barn and is the price of these horses??
    	I'm looking for something to get me back into jumping but
    	due to my wedding this year the price has to be *Low*.
        
    
    	Zina.
                              

    The barn is in Phillipston, Ma. It's called Stonebrook Stables and is
    on Rt. 101. Phillipston is just west of Gardner.
    
    I know that the owner of Winchester is trying to sell him for $5000. -
    Fat chance. He's been for sale for 5 - 6 months and doesn't have the
    training to be worth the money.
    
    I don't know how much they are asking for Jack.
    
    I think they also have another horse for sale but am unsure about that.
    All I know is that Winchester and Jack are good-looking horses and may
    have potential.
    
    The phone # is 939-2539. Sandy and Mike Gosselin own the stable.
    
    		Cindy
    

    
    
    RE:A COUPLE OF HORSES.
    
    
    Thanks Cindy for the quick reply and info.
    
    
    Zina

    A friend of mine has been in the horse breedig and training business...
    but because of a divorce he is selling  all of his horses. It's
    a long story but basicly his wife got him interest in the business
    and now she's gone. Anyway he has several top quality arabians for
    sale very inexpensively .... and with each purchase he is offering
    free training for the purchaser.
    contact: Don Turner
             Fireside Arabians
             Hopkinton, N.H
             603-746-5244
                              or call me
              Paul Buntrock
              DTN: 232-2470
              Home: 603-648-2493

Re: .0

	Lisa

I take instruction at Andover Riding Academy and from what I've
seen, it's a good boarding stable.  It costs $250 per month and
the boarders seem to be satisfied with the facilities and the
treatment.  Jim Fiore is the manager and the primary instructor.
They also have horses for sale from time to time, probably in
your price range.

The other place that you might consider is Chrislar Farm on
Route 133 in Rowley, just off I-95.  It's a very nice facility
with indoor arena, jumping rings, and a half-mile track bordering
on a state forest.  I'm on their waiting list for instruction.
They charge $500 per month for boarding, but $300 if you let them
use your horse for instruction for some number of hours per month.

I really like the people and the plant at Chrislar, but Andover
is okay, too.

Dave

    
    
    
    Look through our note #11 at all the horses for sale by
    the noters here.  They also advertise horses that they
    know of in their barns or areas.  Remember too always
    be ready to deal, right now, a lot of people will take
    a bit less than what they're asking because of horse
    market and rising costs.
    
    From reading some of these responses, I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE
    the board prices you people are paying.  $500 - 600.00 a
    month!  That's more than my mortgage payment.  I feed 5
    horses and a pony for a little over half that figure.  HOW
    DO YOU AFFORD IT?  I think it's highway robbery!  
    
    

    Ditto on the cost of boarding!  I was feeling guilty charging $150.
     Of course, I don't have an indoor arena, but I do have a ring,
    work ring, 30 acres, access to 25 miles of trails, separate paddocks,
    excellent food/hay/care, etc., etc.  Plus a 12-stall block barn
    and a 2-stall wood barn with separate runs.
    
    The highest priced stable around (that I know of) is Idlewilde Farm,
    which at $380, is pricey, even for Davidsonville, MD.  It's owned
    and run by Linda Zang, whose name should ring a bell with dressage
    riders.
    
    MY PRICE includes wormer, by the way.
    
    Merrie

    It's a good thing my stable doesn't charge $500/month. Jasper would be
    on his own! 
    I pay $6/day for full board (including indoor ring). I must admit that
    I wish they had a better paddock (rocky in places but a decent size),
    more and different jumps, plus would put more shavings in Jaspers
    stall.
    However, I wouldn't want to pay an extra $300 for that, plus the 
    availabilty of instructors. I guess it depends upon what you want
    and how much you can spend. (Also, my stable is in Phillipston Ma
    so I'm sure location has something to do with the lower price!).
    		Cindy
    

    I currently board at Linda Zang's and the board is $330 a month,
    with use of an indoor ring seven days a week.  When I was living
    in New England I was paying similar amounts in Pepperell and in
    Harvard for a place with an indoor ring.  With my schedule at work,
    the only time I have to ride is at 6:30 in the morning, or at 7:00
    at night, and I enjoy being able to ride whenever I can, and not
    worry about the weather.  It is expensive, but when you are on a
    limited time schedule it does make it worth it to me.
    

    There are a number of horses for sale through Brasshead Farm in
    Winchendon MA, Phone 508-297-1539 or 297-3149, Janet the owner
    specializes mainly in jumpers and dressage and it sounds as though
    she may have what you're looking for in the right price range. 
    I know she has at least four for sale right now that fit that 
    description.
    She also boards, I believe she asks 300 or 350 with good turnout, an
    indoor ring and outside course.  Tell her Karen Porter sent you,
    she is a personal friend.  Many of the people who buy from her continue
    to board, train or purchase again so I believe this speaks well
    for her reputation.
    
    As far as the horse Winchester in Phillipston, be careful.  This
    horse belongs to a friend of mine who purchased him from Brasshead
    farm as a trail horse, then lost interest.  He does have a lot of
    potential but will require a lot of time to bring him back to where
    he was two years ago, and I know from personal experience he can
    be a handful if left unexcersised for any amount of time.  He is
    a big horse who needs lots of excersise.  For the right person he
    has a heart that won't quit and an energy level to match.
    
    Good luckmin your search,
    Karen

    In response to 815.10 Gucci::McKeown --
    
    Where did you board in Pepperell?  How was their facility?
    I know what you mean about needing a flexible schedule.  It wouldn't
    be worth owning a horse if you can only ride on weekends (especially
    when you can't count on New England weather!!)  As for being able
    to afford board, I can't even afford to get my own apartment!!
    What I'll probably end up doing is half-leasing my horse so that
    he gets extra special attention and plenty of exercise.
    
    
    By the way, Note 818 is also mine (I typed WRITE instead of REPLY).  Again,
    I appreciate all your help!!
    

             <<< DELNI::WORK$01:[NOTES$LIBRARY]EQUITATION.NOTE;1 >>>
                      -< - Equitation Notes Conference - >-
================================================================================
Note 818.0                          Me, again                         No replies
USWAV1::ARSENEAULT                                   24 lines   6-JAN-1989 08:55
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hi!  This is Lisa again.  Your response has been wonderful.  
    
    Because I am 5'10", I will need a large horse. I think that would
    probably rule out most of those Arabians (unfortunately, because
    they are a beautiful breed!)
    
    I presently live in Dracut, Ma. (though that may change).  For the
    boarding of my horse, I would stay close to home (though I would
    purchase the horse anywhere).  Can you think of any place close
    to Dracut?  Does Andover Riding Academy have a waiting list?
    
    Thanks for the info on Winchester.  I am an intermediate rider (have
    only been trained to 2nd level dressage and novice level jumping).
    I definitely intend to work my horse (I'm not big on trail riding),
    and if it means reducing the price, I will certainly look at a horse
    with loads of potential who has at least been exposed to solid
    dressage training (even if he is now rusty).  To get even more
    particular, I like Geldings (I have yet to get along with the
    mare-ish personality).
    
    Again, thank you. I will be checking into some of these barns that
    you mentioned.
    
    

    Hi Lisa,
    
    Buying a horse can be a very exciting and somewhat frustrating of an
    experience.  It is not unusual for someone to find what they think is
    the perfect horse for them and then have it fail the Vet check. 
    Sometimes we think we have found the horse of our dreams and yet it is
    priced beyond our budget and out of reach.  Never give up or buy
    something that you are not truly impressed with.  Sometimes farms or
    dealers selling horses can talk people into buying anything.  One of
    the most popular sale pitches is "100% sound and I have the x-rays
    right here".  Don't take anyone but YOUR vets word as far as soundness.
    Absolutely have the horse vet checked with x-rays by your vet.  It is
    worth it.  If the animal fails - you are immediately out $$$$. But
    if you never had the horse vet checked, bought it, invested your time
    and $$$$ and then discovered there were problems, it would cost more
    than the initial vet check that could have detected a weakness or
    unsoundness.  There is of course no guaranty even if the horse vet
    checks 100% when you buy it.  Things can happen later on.  
    
    Soundness is important but so is saneness.  Believe or not there are
    some very disturbed horses out there, granted it probably is not their
    fault, some disturbed person no doubt caused its problems.  But beware
    of any extremly lethagic horse.  Especially for this time of year.
    People have been known to tranquilize a horse to make it appear very
    calm and well behaved.  With the market as slow as it is nothing
    would surprise me.
    
    I would try the Want-Ad, the Horseman's Yankee Pedlar, and word of
    mouth.  Do beware of Auctions, horse dealers and sale barns.
    A private sale is usually your best bet.  Finding and buying a horse 
    is a lot of work and time consuming.  But well worth it after you have the
    horse and are satisfied with your purchase.  
    
    Note 730 is also about buying a horse.  Good luck - keep us posted on
    your finds.  I have a friend who is (and has been for 6 months) also
    looking for the same type of horse.   
     
    

    re .11
    Hi, Karen. So you know the person who owns Winchester?
    
    Lisa, I really can't say anything about Winchester's capability.
    I know he can be a handful but I'm not sure if that just because no
    one takes care of him (regularly rides him, gives him carrots,
    hugs....).
    If you're concentrating on dressage with some jumping you may be more
    interested in Jack (same stable).  
    
    Good luck in your search.
    			Cindy
    

    The place I boarded in Pepperell was with Sue VanLennep (sp?), who
    had a small 6 stall barn and an indoor ring on her property.  She
    took really good care of my horse, but unfortunately I didn't get
    out to ride as much as I should have, and he started breaking through
    her electric fence!  I took dressage lessons from her also, and
    she helped me a lot with my position.
    

    The number of Sue's is 433-6031.  Good luck!
    

Hi all,

Two weeks ago I put my first kid, "Cocoa", down.  Cocoa came to me by chance.
He was abandoned at the stables that my girlfriend boarded.  The vet thinks
he was around 30 when he left us.  

Anyway to the point of this note.  Now I am adamantly looking for another 
friend.  Please tell me what things you look at when deciding to purchase 
another horse.  I know you must look at the body type, i.e. that they aren't 
to skinny or fat.

Because I still consider myself new at owning a horse (3 years), I make sure
that they don't argue about having feet cleaned, being tied and behave with 
some sense when being ridden (I really don't want to get hurt).    

All I want is to putze around the stables and maybe hit the trails once in a 
while but, typical riding would be one to two hours on Saturday and Sundays and 
when summer comes more than likely one night during the week.

    So please give me some feedback.  What do you look at when you go
    shopping for that new friend.  
    
    I will go to Christmas vacation starting Friday and have one horse already 
    in mind that a decision must be made on Saturday.

Thanks for any information you can give. 

Linda (missing having that special friend to just talk to when I want to)

    Look for a quiet, sane, and sound horse, with known trail experience.
    Age should not be important, nor should color, breed, or sex. Don't
    let breed prejudices sway you, if you find a Thoroughbred that you
    like, don't let someone tell you that they are "too hot for trail
    riding, daft, etc".(just for an example) Go with the horse you are
    comfortable working around and who is proven via a vet check to be sound
    and healthy. Have a knowledgable friend/trainer/instructor look with
    you, a second opinion is always helpful.
    
    If trail riding is your main goal, *insist* when you try the horse out
    that you be allowed to take it out on a ride, even briefly. Occasional
    nice ring horses get downright stupid when they get into the woods or
    fields, sometimes horses trained for show etc never get out of the ring
    and discover all sorts of spooks in the woods they've never seen
    before! :-) Be sure it willingly leaves the barn and/or any buddies
    behind, a barn sour/herd bound horse is NO fun.
    
    Most of all, take your time looking and choose the horse you genuinely
    LIKE! Good luck!
    

    
    
    If you live in the area.. I would be glad to go with you.
    
    I live North Chelmsford.
    
    Anyway.. 
    
    Do a surprise visit.. I have heard a lot of horror stories about people
    dopeing horses - becuase they new exactly when they were coming.
    
    Don't be rushed.. Put on the bill of sale that you want a vet
    inspection.  Don't let them pussy foot around this put it on the
    bill of sale.
    
    Only a vet can tell you what is really wrong with a horse.  
    
    I have over twenty years of experence with horses and I baught 
    a horse that bog spavin ( I would have never seen it, but the vet 
    did).
    
    Mostly, make sure it's the right horse for you.. Be comfortable around
    him.. you saddle him brush him tell the owner that you need some
    time to look him over (alone).. 
    
    I thought I would never find the right horse again but, it took seeing
    over 25 to 30 horses.  and 6 months of looking.
    
    	Best of luck.. some one who will be looking again in the spring..
    
    
    Brat::fultz
    
    Donna

    The past couple notes contain good advice. I just want to re-emphasize
    how important it is to make a surprise visit to see the horse BECAUSE
    you want a quiet, sane, sensible trail partner. People are not above
    tranquilizing a horse to make it seem manageable when it's really an
    unruly critter!
    
    That really can make a difference. One of ours is a bit nervous and
    easily frightened. He gets unruly when he's that way. So, we have to
    tranquilize him before we do any repair work that would be above his
    head...like wiring new lights in a hay loft or repairing the roof, etc.
    He just stands there calmly watching the grass grow after we
    tranquilize him! If I didn't know better I'd swear it was a different
    horse!

    Remember.....when you are buying a horse....
    
                  it's BUYER BEWARE!
    
    They want to sell the horse, so they will convieniently
    not tell you about things.  When I mentioned I was planning
    on having a vet check done, the owner announced that the
    horse would pass "no problem".  When I said it wouldn't
    be done by his vet, suddenly the owner remembered the splint
    injury......
    

    
    Thanks for the great information. I really appreciate all of it.
    
    Some background for all of you.
    
    The horse that I am currently thinking about is an appy gelding.  He is 
    approximately 10 1/2 to 11 years old.  The lady that owns him lives about 
    three miles from my house.   She tells me that she has owned Cherokee 
    since he was around two years old.  This lady has horse property here in 
    the Los Angeles Basin, (its rare to find this) and has approximately 15 
    horses.  She is selling either one of two geldins and either one of two
    mares. Two horses will leave the property.  She says that she has too many 
    horses and needed to sell some.  She really doesn't want to sell Cherokee 
    but she has others that are more favorites.  

    Cherokee is a very low maintenance horse.  He is barefoot, gets trimmed 
    around every 8 weeks.  All she does is shots once a year, float teeth if 
    necessary, tube worm and every 8 weeks paste worm.  She doesn't believe in 
    blankets, or extra goodies.  She says because she has so many horses, she 
    doesn't have the time to pamper them.  Living in Southern California, 
    blankets aren't always necessary.  

    She has a four horse trailer and says that they are always trailing
    somewhere to go trail riding.  Cherokee was used last weekend, out on 
    trail by two different teenagers.  Friends of the daughter.

    She has offered to sell me Cherokee, with a written guarantee that if after 
    thirty days, I don't want him she will purchase him back from me less
    $150.00.  The vet checks are $180. Minimum, and $75.00 to x-ray front feet 
    only.  I didn't ask how much to X-ray the rear feet.  The owner even asked 
    me to write something up for her to sign that I was comfortable with.
    I was told by my Vet, who works in the same clinic as Cherokee's Vet,
    to offer a personal reference in order to take the horse on a 30 day
    purchase guarantee.  When I mentioned this to the owner, her comment
    was, "Anyone who cries when talking about their other horse will take
    good care of any animal.  I don't get a reference."  
    
    I also spoke with Cherokee's Vet.  He told me that mostly he remembers
    the tempermental, bad or sick horses.  He doesn't remember Cherokee. 
    When he went out there last he gave 10 horses shots, tube wormed most
    of them and floated teeth on most.  
 
    I rode Cherokee on Monday night and he was good.  He was hungry and wanted 
    his dinner but still listened to me when I told him to do something.  The 
    only problem I had was getting him to take the bit.  The bit they gave me 
    to use looked very rusty and very used, and the only problem I could see 
    of him was a very slight sway back.  Cocoas' back was very sway back and 
    he still putzed around with me until he had the stroke.  

    I plan on going and riding Cherokee again on Friday AM. I will use my bit 
    and pads.  Then on Saturday, my girlfriend, the extremely knowledgeable 
    horse person, will look at Cherokee for me.  

    The owner will even trailer Cherokee to my stable if I purchase, so that 
    when he arrives he will at least have a familiar person with him, not 
    everything will be strange.

    I really don't think I can go to wrong with the guarantee that she is 
    offering.  In essence, I am leasing the horse for $150.00 for the month.

    I look forward to more feedback, Also thanks to the noter who offered
    to go with me to check the horse out, but, can you really travel 3000
    miles to do that? :-)

    Thanks,

    Linda 

        Hello,
    
        Recently, I have been considering buying a horse.  I rode for
        approximatly 3 years when I was in JR high school (12 years ago),
        but when I discovered boys, I dropped it.......... it is
        unfortunate because I really enjoyed it.  I was just about 
        to buy my first horse with the help of a friend who I guess you 
        could say was my mentor.  She owned her own horse's and boarded 
        for others.
    
        Anyway, my question is, what should I considered when buying a horse?
        What will be my expenses (I will find a place to board), food,
        medical, etc...?
    
        Is there a book that someone might recommend???
    
        Also, I won't be buying for a short while but would like to find a
        place to ride for pleasure either in the Leominster area, 
        Groton area or Arlington/Lexington areas (I do plan on taking 
        lessons at some point).
    
        Thanks for any information you can give....
    
        Gail
    
       
    
                                                                              

    Board costs depend on the facility and what you want.
    
    $250 to $425 per mth is the average fee in my area (Southeastern MA)
    
    Shoeing runs about $55-$75 for a reg shoeing (that is, no special
    work like bars or rolled toes) every 6-8 weeks.
    
    Spring shots including a neg coggins, tooth floating and whatever
    else may be needed would be about $100. (again, my area)

    yikes.....$425/mo???  $230 is tops here.  range is $100 to $230.  I
    dropped shoeing last year and trim monthly for $15.  Hooves are in
    better shape than ever. Might not work in the east with pavement
    everywhere.  Bimonthly worming runs $32.  Keep a couple hundred in
    reserve for the bout of collick, kick damage, eye infection, etc.
    
    These animals are like 1000lb three year old children that seem to get
    into everything at anytime.
    
    /bob
    

    Another vet that people often use is Dr. A. Martin (Marty) Simensen.
    
    Good luck, sounds pretty exciting!

Folks might notice that the reply that I posted here earlier (like, .38)
seems to "appear" once per person, then disappears from the string...
(Well, at least it malfunctioned this way for both me and John D.)
You might notice it if you try to go back and re-read my earlier note
from today.

So here's quick repeat of the questions, and a follow-on.
1. how do you actually make the offer for a horse, and does
  anyone have a 'sales' offer/contract in writing that I can
  use

2. what do you do if the vet you wanted to use is already the
   horse's vet

and my follow-on question is

3. how far do you normally expect a vet to travel for this, 
  or would you truck the horse more than an hour away,
  or would you meet in the middle somewhere,
  or just find a closer vet?

    
    
    
    
    Make a verbal offer, stating that it is only offered pending a
    vet performing a vet check.
    
    A bill of sale can be as simple as a few lines.....or more detailed,
    depending upon what you need.  If the horse is registered, make sure
    the bill of sale includes the papers.....
    
    			   Bill of Sale
    
    Purchased on this date:__________ from Jane/John Doe for the amount
    of $_______, one horse, per following description:
    
    (Breed, sex, color, markings, registration number if papered, height,
    weight, age, and whatever other details you want)
    
    
    Re:  X-rays and vet check.  Don't assume the x-rays are of the horse
    you are considering buying.  I am certainly not saying you are getting
    "taken", but I have heard enough about people getting horses and then
    finding out later that the x-rays were not of that horse, and being
    stuck with a $10,000.00 cripple. If you are really interested in the horse,
    find a vet (one that is not affiliated with the barn and/or the horse)
    to re-take and examine the x-rays for soundness, etc.  Same for the vet
    check, too.  
    

    On a more sensitive note, who works for whom in
    a horse transaction ?  I'm thinking of if your own barn
    or instructor has a horse for sale.

    I'm thinking of real estate, where the agent
    represents the seller.

    Where's the line between trust and common sense ?

    Bill

re: notes, I just got something strange too, I went to "answer"
243.38 and ended up with a different note in my buffer.
I then read 243.39 and "answer" worked ???

re: Vets, as your in the area, you could also take him to Tufts,
    certainly an expert will be available there.

re: Isn't there also a Dr Anderson, who works the race tracks
    who would have to be considered a lamness expert.

    One way to get what you want from a vet check...be there when it
    happens!
    
    As far as which vet to use, if I didn't already have a vet, I would
    talk to all my local horse friends to see who they use.  And then I
    would talk to those vets and ask what they look for in a purchase
    exam.  Purchase exams can be expensive.  I would want to know that I
    would get the information I needed to make the right decision.
    

Just wanted to thank folks for the replies so far.

I also wanted to clarify that I'm not really looking
for vet recommendations (after all, there's another note
for that!), so I probably shouldn't have mentioned the name
of one vet.  But I have to admit that I really appreciate
the extra recommendations.

I'm more concerned with how people go about picking a vet
in an area they're unfamiliar with.  I think I've figured 
out one way-- we all go straight to the notesfile and see
if there's a recommended vet in that area!  The vet that
I originally mentioned was recommended probably due to the
convenient overlap of that vet's reputation/knowledge, plus
the fact that that vet was known to be much closer to the
horse in question than he/she is to US!  (So much closer
that s/he turned out to be their vet!)

As for other vets, I'll try calling them and finding out 
just how far they're willing to travel, or whether they 
have any other ideas/recommendations.

Now if only I could solve the REAL problem-- how to decide
between the expensive, advanced horse, and the cheaper horse
that I might outgrow next year.  Sigh.
--c

Also, I assume that it would not be wise to
discuss (negotiate) price over the phone... 

Gee, maybe I should have titled this "tips for
buying a horse that isn't in your local area"...
I guess I should be grateful that these horses are only
about 2 hours away!
--carrie

    
    You can certainly discuss the price over the phone.
    2 hours is a long way to go just to discuss pricing.
    

    > 2 hours is a long way to go just to discuss pricing.
    
    Heck, out here in the West that's a run to town for milk! But, it 
    reminded me of one of my first lessons that I was no longer in New
    England. 
    
    The first year we were out here in WA, I heard about a horse I
    wanted to go look at in Idaho. "No problem!", says I, "It's only the 
    next state. Shouldn't take too long to get there."
    
    Then I looked at the map to figure out how to get to the place in
    Idaho. It was a 12-15 hour drive! 

Another thought is to see if the vet you will be using if you buy this horse
would be willing to go do the pre-purchase exam.  A side benefit is that 
then your vet will then already have a baseline set of X-rays for the horse, 
and s/he will get to see the horse in their 'original' condition. Of 
course, this all depends on how far your vet can or is willing to travel (and 
how much you can spend for his/her travel time.