Conference noted::equitation

    MARIANNE,
       CAN YOU GIVE A LITTLE MORE INFO-LIKE HOW LONG HAS SHE BEEN DOING
    THIS?ARE THERE ANY HORSES ON EITHER SIDE?A RECENT CHANGE IN FEED?
    STRESS?
    
    GARY 

    She has been doing this all along, it's just now getting worse
    as she's going thru the wall.  There has been no change to her
    feed.  She mostly kicks while eating.  There is a horse to either
    side of her, but she can only see the one on the left side when
    he holds his head over the stall door, this is the wall she kicks 
    at. The horse that she can see is new to the stall, however she
    still kicked the same wall when there were others, including small
    pony's that she could not see.
    
    ?????
    
    Thanks
    Marianne
    

    I have a mare who does the same thing, except that so far it hasn't
    reached the destructive point.  She kicks and bares her teeth as
    soon as I put her in her stall to feed her.  And, she continues
    to give a few kicks now and then while she eats.
    
    During the day, she is turned out with a gelding who really dominates
    her.  I always feed them in their separate stalls.  I think my mare
    is just making sure that nobody comes near her food.  She is basically
    submissive, but I think she is really worried that the gelding might
    somehow get her food, and this makes her more aggressive.
    
    Do you have a run attached to the stall?  If you do, you might consider
    feeding the mare outside.
    
    This sounds like a hard habit to break.  I haven't worried too much
    about it, but now I wonder...  If anyone has solved this problem,
    I too would love to hear how they did it.

    RE.4
    I WOULD TEND TO AGREE IN THAT MARRIANNE'S MARE TENDS TO DO IT MORE
    WHEN ITS TIME TO FEED REGARDLESS IF SEE'S ANOTHER HORSE OR NOT -SHE
    JUST MAY BE THINKING SOMEONE GOING TO GET HER FOOD AND SHE'S TRYING
    TO PROTECT IT....I'LL THINK ON THIS ONE SOME MORE---HOPE WE GET
    MORE REPLIES
    
    GARY

    Marianne - I have a couple of questions and possible solutions for
    you.  Is the left wall the only one she kicks at?  I assume it is
    with a hind leg.  Does she get turned out with that horse at all,
    and if so, do they get along.  What is her reation to a human entering
    her stall while she is eating - friendly or aggressive like Sharon's
    mare?  If you mare is not turned out or exercised regularly, it
    could be a case of boredom - some horses like the sound of kicking
    the walls, or if other people hear her kicking and feed her hay
    to shut her up, she could associate food (reward) with kicking.
    You can try a couple of things that I have seen work.  One is attaching
    a piece of rope through a tennis ball (tie a knot at the end) and
    tying it around the horse's leg above the hock.  Every time she
    kicks, the ball will hit her in the leg - so she is punishing herself.
    The other thing is to stand in the stall with her, and each time
    she kicks the wall, say NO firmly and loudly, and at the same time
    hit her on the rear with a Cross Country bat (the fat end makes
    more noise than it hurts), eventually you can try just NO and see
    if she responds.  The idea is to make her associate kicking with
    being punished so she will stop doing it.  If she doesn't get along
    with the horse on the left, try moving her next to a horse she gets
    along with.

    I was just talking with someone and they also mentioned the
    tennis ball method, at this point it sounds like it might help.
    The horse only kicks the left wall, or the back door, with is now
    open, she can walk out to a small pen.  She never shows any sign
    of aggresiveness to humans, she doesn't show any when horses are
    lead by her either.  She's exercised about 4 times a week, and turned
    out for about 1 - 2 hours a day. 

    
    	
    			Well i guess I'll take a shot at it. It sounds
    to me she is proably worried about her food.( at one time) then
    she just got in the habit of kicking.  my mare does it when shes
    at shows.  she keeps everyone awake, including her stall mates.
    and the reason she does this, is because i have left her and she
    wants me to be with her, in other words she is not sleepy and she
    wants to come out and play.
    	sooo... after she is fed , etc. and i have had my dinner around
    8:30 when everyone is just winding down and the people are starting
    to party.i generally take her out and lounge her for half an hour
    or so and walk her out.  it gets her tired just enough to keep for
    quiet. no matter how much commotion is goin on, shes lying down
    snoring.	
    		getting back to your mare. it sounds like she is getting
    her attention by kicking, even yelling or neg. is still some  attention.
    if you are working her now, i would work her even harder. and maybe
    5 to 6 times a week.	the mare sounds like she is bored and
    frustrated because she is not getting the proper exercise she needs.
    and kicking is not only the pasttime for her, but also is getting
    her frustration out.  it also sounds to me that the people are not
    concerned with your horse but concerned with their barn.
    		wendy.
    

    If it's possible to turn her out for longer periods of time, I would
    give it a try and see if it helps (esp. if she is bored, turning
    her out with other horses will help).  Maybe 4 or more hours a
    day if you don't have time to ride more.

    The stable houses 25 horses and cannot afford long turnouts, when
    I am there at night, I let her out for about an hour sometimes longer,
    on weekends I leave her out most of the day if no one is in line
    behind me.  When she comes home in the spring she'll have full day
    turnout, I hope this will help also.  As for her destroying the
    stall she's in now, the owner of the barn isn't concerned, it can
    be fixed, it is I who am concerned, I feel pretty guilty when I
    see major holes in the wall.  

    Marianne, while I haven't had this specific problem, I know of a
    possible solution.  Can you pay someone, such as a high school girl,
    to take your mare on walks during the day?  Maybe one walk in thee
    morning and one in the afternoon.  I had to do this one year when
    trying to adapt stall-kept horses to the outside in springtime.
     The horses had time to graze -- 15 minutes stretched to two hours
    -- and some exercise.
    
    By the way, do you still have your western bridle for sale?
    
    Merrie Aiken
    DTN 341-2395
               

    Another suggestion is to move her to an end stall (if possible)
    and put her grain bucket and hay on the side of the stall away from
    the horse next to her.  If you can't move her stall, try putting
    her feed bucket on the ground instead of hanging it up on the side
    of the stall.
    
    Another thing to try if the tennis ball method doesn't work is putting
    up "kick-plates" around the stall.  This would involve hanging planks
    about the same length as the sides of the stall from the ceiling
    so that they hang about 3 feet in from each side that she kicks
    on.  They should be hung just above hock height.  This works on
    the same idea as the tennis ball but since planks are a little harder
    and a little larger, it gets the point across faster.  Unfortunately,
    this method only works if you have reasonably decent size stalls.
    
    Good luck!
    Linda
    

    
    Marianne, I personally haven't had this problem, my trainer has
    an Arab gelding that occasionally does. She has a pair of kicking
    chains. They're a leather belt type with about a six (6)inch 
    long piece of chain hooked to it. She has used them for years and
    it seems to work quite well. I hope you can solve this problem 
    and no injury happens to the mare, etc..
    
                              
                                    Steve
    
    

    Thanks all, for the hints and suggestions given to this 
    problem.  I am in the process of trying the tennis ball method,
    nothing's happened yet however.  When I went to the barn last
    night I found a new window into the next stall!  Will keep you
    posted on any progress.
    

    Well, I've been feeding the mare outside of her stall, the kicking
    has definately died down.  I'm moving her home tonight, now she'll
    be out all day.  I'll see if that makes a difference in kicking
    when she's in at night.  Thanks to all who responded with their
    ideas!
    
    -Marianne-
    

    I also have a mare who is a "notorious" stall-kicker.  She is fine
    with people, but has literally knocked out/down walls in various
    stables.  Turning her out longer made no difference whatever.
    
    One thing we have discovered is that she absolutely hates the "boys".
    When she has a gelding next door, she really pounds the wall.  Doesn't
    have to see him to know he is there.  We now make a practice of
    putting only mares alongside her; and, while she fights with them
    some, it is not nearly so bad as before.
    
    Hope this is some help.
    
    
    =paul=

    Thanks for all the responses, but I brought her home and she
    stopped kicking!  Now she has no horses on either side of her, and
    stays out all day long. She seems much more content.
    
    Thanks
    Marianne
    

    Marianne, I'm glad your mare has settled down. It's probably a load
    off your mind. 
    
                            Steve P.
    
    
    

    More than you could ever know!!
    
    Thanks!
    -M-
    
    P.S.  Her attitude has even changed. She's getting more
    inquisitive and nickers when the back door is opened.
    
    

     You can have a better, Merry Christmas....
    
   P.S. Everyone have a Merry Christmas.
                                                         Steve
    
    
    

    Has anyone out there actually tried curbing the stall kicking habit
    with tennis balls?  I would be interested in hearing...if it works
    and how one goes about securing the string/tennis ball to the horses
    leg...and where on the leg (above or below the hock).
    
    One of my boarders horses has started kicking the !@#$%&* of his
    stall (he's been in my barn for 10 months and just started this)....he
    does it a 5:30 am.....wake up guys...it's time to feed me (nice,
    huh?)
    
    Jeannie

    I tried it with my first horse about 7 years ago and it did work.
    I made 2 holes in the tennis ball (opposite sides of the ball)
    and had braided 3 strands of bailing twine together to make a thin
    rope.  I put the 'rope' thru the holes on the tennis ball and tied
    a not at one end (so the ball wouldn't fall off), the other end
    I used to tie around the horse's hind leg above the hock joint
    (about the stifle area) - I didn't tie it so tight that it would
    cut of his circulation, but enough so it wouldn't slip down.  I
    tied it so that when the ball hung straight down, it was about in
    the middle of his cannon bone (tie it so that the ball hangs behind
    the cannon bone (ie. at the back of the tendons), this way when
    the horse kicks, the ball swings back and hits him in the leg -
    after a few times I think he got the hint.
    
    I only kept this on when he was in his stall for the night.
    Make sure you know which leg he is kicking with so you can tie it
    on the correct leg.