Conference noted::equitation

    I'm not sure if it's the same thing or not, but I had a pony a
    few years ago, we had boarded for a friend.  We didn't know
    the history of the pony, just that it was given to her by her
    grandfather, and the pony had a 6 month old foal at it's side.
    About 5 months after weaning, the pony showed these same signs
    you speak of, and actually went into a false labor, the Vet
    came out and checked her out and told us it was a false
    pregnancy???? Never heard of it before? Wouldn't have believed it
    if I hadn't been there.  Within a short time, she had dried up and
    was back to normal.

	Although this case isn't exactly like yours, I thought you might
	be interested in this story.  Sort of a long story, but it covers
	2 years.

	I bred my mare Carillon in spring 1984.  She was ultrasounded, and 
	proved to be in foal at 21 days.  She was then 	palpated at 45 days 
	and still in foal.  Being a neophyte breeder, I assumed all was well. 
	Carillon is mostly TB and very large-bodied, so I really didn't expect
	her to "show" for a while.  I started increasing her feed in December,
	and she was gaining weight - she looked sort of pregnant to me (she 
	was due in April).  By March, though, I thought she should be bigger 
	than she was.  Had the vet out, and she was NOT in foal.  He said she 
	had probably absorbed early in the pregnancy; she was possibly in the 
	process of absorbing when she was palpated at 45 days, because the 
	embryo was small.

	So, we tried again in 1985.  She was ultrasounded and again found to be
	in foal.  I left her at the breeding farm longer, to see if that would
	help her settle.  Also, she was found to be deficient in progesterone
	so I supplemented her.  At 4 months, I thought I might as well make
	sure I wasn't going through alot of trouble for nothing, so the vet
	checked her - diagnosis : NOT pregnant.

	I decided to give up on this mare.  My breeding was through the
	American Trakehner Association Stallion Service Auction - I had
	been the highest bidder on this stallion, so I got the stud fee at a
	reduced rate.  Plus, the foal would be eligible for the ATA Futurity
	when it was 5, without me paying the nomination fees.  Live foal
	guarantee, but couldn't get any money back... what to do?  Get another
	mare!

	I looked and looked and found a real nice registered Thoroughbred who
	was a PROVEN broodmare and had had two gorgeous colts.  In late May
	I took her to be bred.

	Meanwhile, Carillon looked rather dumpy - thin, but with a "hay belly".
	The vet checked her for anemia and worms - both negative.  His advice 
	was more food, and more exercise, both of which I followed.

	And here, finally, is the similarity to your story: I started noticing
	that she looked full in the udder area.  I would notice this when
	grooming and tacking up.  Then, I would go riding and when I looked
	afterward, no more swollen udder.  Those of you who are experienced
	breeders probably know what this is a sign of...

	I wasn't too concerned until Carillon developed this disgusting 
	swelling on her stomach.  I thought maybe I had worked her so hard
	she got a hernia!  I felt awful...  So the vet came out and told me
	that it was ok, she was just going to foal in 10 - 14 days!!!!  She
	really didn't look pregnant until a few days before she foaled.  I
	later read that a swollen udder that shrinks after exercise is one
	of the signs that foaling time is approaching within a month or so.

	So, now we have a wonderful bay filly.  I guess we were really lucky.
	Since I didn't know she was pregnant, she didn't get her rhino shots
	at 5, 7, and 9 months.  Also, her nutrition was not what it should
	have been.
	
	I'm not saying that your mare is pregnant, because the other signs
	don't seem to indicate this (coming into heat, for example - which
	I HAD noticed Carillon wasn't, but I thought her hormones were just
	messed up).  But, those mares are just full of surprises!  And, yes,
	the other mare IS pregnant...
	

    
    
    I had a similar case.  My mare had been confirmed in foal at
    around 30 days.  I had her rechecked around 72 days and the
    vet (a different one from the first), could not tell.  They
    told me it was easier to tell earlier on in the pregnancy.
    However, I still believed my mare bred.  The months went by
    and I increased feed at the different quarters.  I also moved
    her up to a training track where I had my colt stabled be-
    cause they had better facilities for foaling.  No-one there
    thought she was in foal.  Compared to the pregnant mares at
    the stable, they were farther along and "looked" pregnant,
    whereas she did not.  When the people at the track witnessed
    her in heat, I took her home and assumed she was not bed.
    I got home from work during a snowsnow in March of last year
    and noticed milk spirting from her teats.  I had barely
    enough time to get her from the pasture into the stable.
    Two hours later she foaled.
    
    Perhaps your mare is not bred, but then again, you could be
    in for a surprize.
    
    Linda
    
    

The past two notes have left me wondering.  In January I bought an
appy mare.  Part of the deal was a free breeding to his stud.  I
sent her out in May to be bred, then she wouldn't come into heat.
Six weeks later, I had my vet check her (for the second time) and
give her a shot.  Three days later she was in heat.  He bred her for
a week, then she came home - mid June.  She was palpated at approx.
45 days and the vet said she was not sure - her uterus felt it, but
she didn't have the rest of the symptoms.  She suggested an ultrasound.
The following week I had another vet come out and do an ultrasound.  She
said she is not pregnant, that she must have reabsorbed it.  She also
commented that if they carry more than 50 days, they will not come into
heat again this season.  

Is there a chance my mare is pregnant, or is an ultrasound a true test?

Kathy

< Note 113.3 by DELNI::L_MCCORMACK >
                                   -< Mares >-

    
    
    I had a similar case.  My mare had been confirmed in foal at
    around 30 days.  I had her rechecked around 72 days and the
    vet (a different one from the first), could not tell.  They
    told me it was easier to tell earlier on in the pregnancy.
    However, I still believed my mare bred.  The months went by
    and I increased feed at the different quarters.  I also moved
    her up to a training track where I had my colt stabled be-
    cause they had better facilities for foaling.  No-one there
    thought she was in foal.  Compared to the pregnant mares at
    the stable, they were farther along and "looked" pregnant,
    whereas she did not.  When the people at the track witnessed
    her in heat, I took her home and assumed she was not bed.
    I got home from work during a snowsnow in March of last year
    and noticed milk spirting from her teats.  I had barely
    enough time to get her from the pasture into the stable.
    Two hours later she foaled.
    
    Perhaps your mare is not bred, but then again, you could be
    in for a surprize.
    
    Linda
    
    

    After my experience I don't like to be too definite about anything
    regarding pregnant mares - but, I would say that MOST of the time
    an ultrasound indicating that the mare is not pregnant is a very
    reliable diagnosis.  (If the ultrasound indicates the mare IS pregnant,
    that is also very reliable in that you know the mare is pregnant
    when the ultrasound occurred; you just don't know if she will reabsorb
    sometime before the embryo actually attaches to the placenta.) 
    I am no vet, but your mare might have been pregnant, and then recently 
    resorbed, which would explain why the uterus felt pregnant.  I also
    have heard that around 45 days is a "crisis point" in terms of the
    pregnancy, which is why many breeding farms recommend a re-check
    around this time, for a mare previously diagnosed in foal.

    I just discovered that our 20 year old mare had a swollen udder and is
    expressing an almost clear, sweet smelling liquid.  Since we have had
    her for over two years with no access to a stallion, we are certain
    that she isn't in foal.  What could cause this?  Is it normal?  We
    don't know about her history as a brood mare or even if she was one?
    
    What's a father to do????

I'd call the vet. It doesn't cost anything for the phone call.

    
    
    
    You could have a problem with either mastitis (infection of the udder)
    or a false pregnancy.  I would call your vet and talk to him about what
    is going on.  He should be able to tell you what you would be need to
    do to take care of the problem. The peace of mind would make it worth
    the phone call.
    
    Pat 

    I'm not sure where you are located, but if your mare has access to lots
    of clover already, that, too, can cause them to bag up.  Clover is
    loaded with estrogen.
    
    At any rate, I'd check with the vet.
    
    Kathy

    I have a call into our vet...  I noticed that we have some major
    patches of clover in our field.  The clover is so large it could pass
    for a shamrock patch rather than a clover patch.
    
    I hope the estrogen in the clover is the problem.
    
    Thanks for your thoughts.
    

    I had a mare with mastitis once, it was extremely painful.  The vet
    gave me a syringe (don't remember the name) that I was supposed to 
    shoot into the udder, yeah right!!  I couldn't even touch her udder!
    I think we ended up treating it with shots of penicillin.

    My vet advised me not to worry unless the udder is tender or if the
    fluid is discolored.  He advised me not to milk her out, but to keep on
    eye on her for swelling and or discomfort.  He agreed that the clover
    could be the cause.  He also said it could be related to her being in
    season.
    
    I thank you all for your comments and ideas.

    re.11
    
    that met.. (sp?) whatever is swelling to the udders.. Most 
    mature mares will have it, when that is the case mostly it is
    just fat deposit......when it gets painful is another story..
    my mare his had it since she was 5 years old...Its mostly just
    fat tho.........
    
    	wendy o'