Conference noted::equitation

	At my own suggestion the Moderator agreed a separate
	Topic would be in order; therefore I have copied over
	the following 4 replies from a previous Topic to keep
	that discussion on the right track ( or Trail, as the
	case may be).  

	The following replies appeared in Topic # 12.  I have
	inserted a Form Feed so you may skip them if you've 
	already Read them.

	Tom


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Note 12.4                  Your First Horse or Pony                       4 of 7
CONDOR::REILLEY "Reil"                               21 lines   6-APR-1986 19:33
                               -<  Help Needed  >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


	A friend is in desparate need to place her Connamara pony, and
   	we said we would gladly take him.  We need some quick ideas on
	where to find some inexpensive [or dirt cheap] fencing materials
	(posts, rails, what have you) for a paddock area.

	We have a stall and an acre + for a paddock area, but we need
	to quickly fence in at least part of the area before we bring
	him home; we live in Fitchburg, Ma. 

	At the ripe ol age of 38 [if you're over the hill, then
	I'm in the next County . . .  :^} ] this will be our first
	horse.  Any helpful ideas for fencing would be much appreciated!

	Post replies here or send mail to CONDOR::REILLEY.


	THANKS !

	Tom

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Note 12.5                  Your First Horse or Pony                       5 of 7
HUMAN::CONKLIN "Peter Conklin"                       16 lines   6-APR-1986 21:27
                         -< Metal stakes and fencing >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    One of the quickest ways to fence, assuming the horse is reasonably
    well behaved:
    
    Drive 8' heavy duty fence posts into the ground every 10'. Use the
    heavy ones, not the light weight ones. On this, you can stretch
    and place 6' rolls of fencing wire that has 2x3" grid.
    
    We have done this over about 1500' and it is still OK 5 years later.
    It is not elegant, but it is relatively quick and not absurdly
    expensive.
    
    Incidently, there is a gadget that simplifies pounding the stakes--
    it is a steel cylinder about 2' long with one sealed end and two
    handles. In makes driving the stakes much easier. Hanging the wire
    is aided by a block and tackle to pull the wire taught and fencing
    pliers.

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Note 12.6                  Your First Horse or Pony                       6 of 7
OWL::REILLEY "Reil"                                  13 lines   7-APR-1986 09:54
                             -< Wire vs. Boards  >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    Thanks, Peter.  We've fenced in 2 acres for our dogs using the
    6' wire fencing so we're used to working with that, but we'd
    have to order some more if we do that for the pony. In the
    meantime we're looking for a local supply of used or rough sawn
    boards that we could possibly use. I think I can drag out enough
    fence posts from the woods all around us - there are a _lot_ of
    dead trees on the ground - so all we'd need are the boards.
    
    Decisions, decisions...  :^}   Thanks, Peter.
    
    Tom

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Note 12.7                  Your First Horse or Pony                       7 of 7
LAUREL::REMILLARD                                     8 lines   7-APR-1986 11:40
                                 -< ELECTRIC? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    	Is an electric fence out of the question??  Seems to me that
    	once you have the posts in - to wire a fence takes no time at
    	all... and with a good charger - keeps those nags in.
    
    	Mine respect our fence - if not, there is 5,000 volts of turning
    	power there to change their minds.
    
    	Susan

    
    Sue,
    	To be quite honest about it, we hadn't even considered
    using an electric fence just yet.
    
    	A friend of ours got us to thinking about it when he
    mentioned he converted his system from battery powered to
    110 v. because he was replacing batteries every 3-4 months.
    	But we were only thinking of electrifying sometime
    in the future after the horse is all settled in and we
    have the time & equipment to do that. For the time being
    I think we just want to get up _something_, i.e. quick_and_dirty,
    so we can bring him home. 
    
    	Our barn couldn't handle a 110 v. system now without
    major work. Can you give me an idea of price ranges, etc.,
    for a battery system ? 
    
    Thanks.
    Tom
    

    Hi Tom.  I also use electric fencing for a couple of reasons.
    The most important was that I have one horse that doesn't care
    if he hurts himself charging through planks or rails.  He IS
    terrified of the electric fence.  It is practically maintenance
    free if you maintain it daily by checking for limbs or weeds
    touching the wire, inexpensive to buy the materials, and easy
    to put up.  It also keeps children that come to see the horses
    from getting hurt.  They get zapped from the fence rather than
    getting bitten.
    
    Last fall I decided to add rails to the fence and went to Toy
    Town Lumber in Winchendon and got a good deal on posts and 10
    ft rails that are quite handsome and didn't cost too much money.
    For the small paddock you are talking about, you might be able
    to afford to put up something like this.  If you do come out
    this week, you can take a look at the post and rail fence.
    
    Linda
    
    

    
    One of my co-workers here thinks he still has an electric fencer
    which he no longer uses; if so he said I could have it. He's going
    to look tonight to see what he has left, including the wire, etc.
    
    We're getting there... :^}
    
    Thanks,
    
    Tom
    

    	HI Tom,
    
    	If you would like to go electric - I have three extra chargers
    	and you may borrow one in the meanwhile if you like.  The two 
        larger ones give off about 950 volts and that should be ok 
        for your killer.
    
    	I don't know much about the charger battery models - some of
    	folks use them on rides and are happy with them.  I don't know
    	what kind of a charge they give off.  I considered getting a
    	solar model but they don't last all that long to make it 
    	worthwhile for the cost.
    
    	I use a Gallagher Energizer (comes from New Zealand) and that,
    	when properly installed gives off 5,000 volts.  This only costs
    	7 cents a month to run  AND FOLKS - THIS SUCKER WORKS IN ALL 
        WEATHER CONDITIONS!!  Many times when the snow comes the animal 
        doesn't provide a good ground because they are standing on snow 
        or ice - no "Zap" bye-bye nag!
    	
        Many, MANY times we came home after work to find nag foots all
    	over the yard and MY ROSE GARDEN!!  (kill, kill!)  My charger
    	is good for 10 miles - they have a larger model.  All I can
     	say is that going electric has saved me lots.
    
    	Susan

    
    	Thanks, Sue, I may be in touch with you about it.
    
    
    	Tom
    

    Tom, although some folks clearly prefer battery powered fence chargers,
    the Sears farm catalog offers a solar powered fence charger capable
    of electrifying 25 mi. of fence. They claim it will operate properly
    even after 20+ days without sunshine! The price? A mere $179.00
    That might be woth a look >>IF<< it performs the way they claim.
    If you check into it let us know. Thanks.
    

    
    Will do.  Right now I have one battery powered charger and
    one electric powered charger, for a single paddock area.
    I will be building a second paddock/grazing area in another
    month or so. Maybe in another year or so I'll upgrade to
    that solar powered model. If I do I'll be sure to post the
    results here.
    
    Tom
    

    
    I have another question about fencing materials.  I will be getting
    a horse in the spring and bringing it home.  I have about a 3/4
    acre pasture that is surrounded on 3 sides by woods and stone walls.
    On the 4th side (nearest the house) the field is about 2 feet below
    the driveway, and the wall in this place is stone. on one corner there 
    is a walkway through the woods to get up to the driveway to avoiding
    climbing the wall.  
    
    I am thinking about just putting up electic fence (8 foot poles
    with a single strand of wire) on the 3 sides that are next to the
    woods.  Will this be sufficient?  Could I also use just electric
    on the 4th side, or would wood be better/safer?  Or does it really
    depend on the horse?
    
    Thanks.
    
    Sherry
    

    It really depends on the Horse: Wood is fine if your Horse is not
    known for getting out. I run electric with wood fenceing and I find
    that it looks very nice and my Horse has never gotten out. I also
    have a calf that was born at my barn and I was glad to have the
    Electric fence. The little one could not get under the Electric
    fence. Also, it keeps the Horse from biteing the fence. It also
    keeps out the stray dogs that like to chase Horses. 
    
    Best if luck with your new Horse,
    

    Does anyone have any experience with the electric fence wire
    that is actually not wire, but nylon?   There are some types
    that are tape-like and others that are more like nylon rope
    with strands of wire braided in.
    
    These seem to be much easier to handle than the traditional
    wire and would be easy to move to another location once set up.
    
    ??
    

    I have never used this product myself but have been told that it
    has a short life span when compared to regular wire.  The sun
    apparently rots the nylon.
    
    J.

I have two goats and been using the nylon wire for for fencing for about
6 months now.  The brand I'm using is called Speedfence.  I bought it at
Horse and Buggy feeds in Winchendon.  It's also sold at Erikson's in
Acton and most Agway stores. 

Sunday I extended their pasture. I had only been using a small area for
the winter.  In the larger area the previous owners had used wire and
some of the fencing was coming down and the wiring was in very bad
shape.  I used the posts I could and added some new posts. I used the
Speedfence because it's so easy to handle and it's movable. The only
inconvenience I see is goats need three strands and the weeds must be kept
down near the bottom strand to keep the zipper from shorting out. The
fence helps to keeps the dogs away from the goats and hopefully will
keep the deer away from the garden. 

    Robin
        

    			FENCING TIP
    
    We live (luckily) out in an area that has a lot of local
    sawmills.  I noticed a lot of notes asking on where to get 
    "cheap" fencing.  These sawmills sell direct to the public
    in my area.  We buy the 4x4, 6x6 size green cut posts at
    about 1/3 the cost from, say, Century or Grossman's lumber.
    Dip the end in oil (or whatever) to prevent rot & insects,
    and bury post with a little of the coated wood sticking out.
    
    Now comes the "Bargain"!.  One sawmill sells the "SLABS"  
    i.e., the four sides of the log that are cut off during
    the first stage of preparation for $1 a pickup truck load!
    Yes, all you can take for 1 buck!.  We used these as fence
    rails for 3/4 of corral #1, and will be using them for
    100% fencing on corral #2.  They are not perfect, but as
    you can pick and choose through the pile, most of the ones
    we have look like a bark covered 2x5...There are random sizes
    and most are in at least 8 ft lengths.  They have been up
    1 year now, and we haven't had to replace one...AND no maintenance
    needed.  My horse has chewed a few, but they hold up well.  They
    are all pine, by the way.
    
    Lynne 
    

    What a deal!  Where is this place?
    
    
    Gwen
    

    What a suggestion! I love it! I feel so stupid for not thinking
    of it! :-) There is a sawmill at the end of my road, where I get
    my shavings (free for the taking but unbagged and gotta get 'em
    in good weather because they're not under cover). The owner had
    told me once to feel free to take whatever I wanted from his "junk"
    pile, I had been eyeing it recently as jumps material, but hadn't
    considered fencing! The pile is a variety of sizes of logs that
    for whatever reason where not acceptable for lumber, and I had
    also noticed boards similar to what you described...bark on one
    side, sawed on the other....and since we are expecting to have
    a ring in within the next few weeks perhaps this would be good
    arena fencing stuff! I had planned no fencing around the ring
    at all (too expensive!) but to just mark it with dressage letters..
    thanks for the idea! I'll be stopping at the mill on the way home
    tonight rummaging around...:)....
    

    Me again - I meant to put the name of the sawmill in, but
    forgot & logged out....silly me!
    
    R.D. Williams in Carver, MA is the sawmill in my area that
    has these.  There is also a sawmill in downtown Middleboro
    MA (where I live) that sells the Slabs, but I don't know
    how much he wants.  (He's expensive & unfriendly!!!)
    There's another in my town, too, but I don't think their
    hours include weekends.  R.D.W.'s does.
    Most any sawmill will have these, as they are an output of
    making lumber.  There are many sawmills up & down the Rte 495
    area, and I am sure, in NH.  You can call around to see it they
    have the slabs available.  Some sawmills make woodchips & barkmulch
    out of them.....                      
    
    .2 - I get my shavings from R.D.W., too!  Nice people, they sell
    it to us for a couple bucks a load.  BIG competition down here
    for shavings.....Lots of horse people.
    
    L-

    The stable I keep Jasper at also has a sawmill on the property.
    Actually, most of the fencing and the new part of the barn was built
    with the wood Dave cut. So if you're looking for rough cut wood,
    he has different lengths and thicknesses.
    
    Dave Niall
    Cloverleaf Stables
    508-939 - 5102    (Templeton, Ma)
    
    			       Cindy
    	

    
    ...which reminds me that my second cousin owns a sawmill in Nashua,
    NH, just over the Hollis/Pepperell line. He is the second generation
    owner, and during my childhood we got our shaving from him as well
    as our fencing material. Hadn't thought of it right off, it's been
    at least a year since I last saw him....I am told via the family
    grapevine that he has also recently bought Stateline Lumber in
    Pepperell, so for people in that area you may want to try him. I
    know little of how he operates things, but he's a nice guy....the mill
    called Holt Lumber on Groton Rd in Nashua.... 
    
                  
    

             <<< DELNI::WORK$01:[NOTES$LIBRARY]EQUITATION.NOTE;2 >>>
                          -< Equine Notes Conference >-
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Note 1384.0                          insert                           No replies
GRANPA::DSICKENBERG                                   7 lines  23-OCT-1990 12:43
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    Has anyone out there installed Stud Rail Vinyl Fencing?  Is it pretty
    reliable?  Is there any other good fencing out there that is reliable,
    besides electric fence & post & rail & high tensile.
    
    
    
                                 Thanks Donna

    See also topics 1061, 852 and 848 for discussions on fencing.
    

    I looked into this stuff pretty closely, and although it has some
    really good points, I decided against it.  If you install it the way
    the manufacturers and dealers recommend, your posts have to be
    incredibly solid (set in LOTS of concrete) and you can not have any
    corners in your paddock, etc.  Al this is because the tension that you
    have to maintain on the fencing itself is enough to pull down the
    posts!  What I *did* consider it for was for a supplemental fence along
    a stone wall that wasn't as high as I'd like.  I think it would be good
    for something like that, where looks aren't a top priority.  But if you
    want your fence to look decent, you have to go to a *lot* of trouble to
    have your posts sturdy enough to keep the vinyl from sagging.
    
    But the big advantage, of course, is that if a horse runs into this
    stuff, you avoid the vet bills!
    
    
    ellie

    I am planning to fence in the "back 40" for my first horse ! (got the
    powers to be to ok it !!)
    
    Anyway I have been looking into the vinal fencing.  Does anyone have
    any experence or any thoughts on it ??
    
    Thanks for any comments.
    
    Bob 

    The vinyl fencing (I think you mean the kind that is
    vinyl coated, runs thru a bracket on the post, and gives
    when leaned against?)  is good stuff......however the cost
    was, in my opinion, too expensive to even consider.
    
    Lynne

    There are a couple of different types.  One type is secured at each
    post, and the other is  threaded through a sort of holder at each
    post.  Those that are fastened at each post tend to sag a little and
    not be quite level when the vinyl warms up, etc.  The other type has
    some sort of tensioning device that holds the vinyl strips tight.  One
    brand that does this is Stud Rail.  Although this sounds like a good
    idea, it means that your fence setup has to have 5-post rounded
    corners, with some or all of these posts set into elaborate concrete
    moorings, because the tension on the vinyl strips tends to pull the
    posts over.  This type is not suitable for an existing fence where you
    just want to replace the wood rails with vinyl.  The first type is ok
    fo this, though.  ANd I don't think of some slight irregularities in
    the tightness of the vinyl as all that bad.  The really good point of
    this type of fence is that it really cuts dosn on the possibilities of
    injury when a horse runs into it.
    
    There are some other things to think about too:  You can;t sit on the
    fence;  if you put your saddle on it, it's likely to fall off, etc.
    
    8^)

    Thanks for the info.
    
    yes I live in Spokane and are winters can be a bit nippy.... this
    winter we had about two weeks of temps below 0, with wind chill it was
    about -30 to -60 some days !!
    
    I will look into cold weather conserns for vinyl fencing.
    
    Thanks for you help !
    Bob

The July 1991 issue of Practical Horseman has an article 'Keeping Your Horses 
Home', devoted to fencing of several varieties.

The last reply in this string is over 3 years old, but I
know with Next Unseen you'll find it!

We would like to fence in about an acre with some sort of
relatively sturdy wire fencing -- this is for llamas, and
the main concern is keeping other animals OUT as llamas are
generally respectful of their fences and don't need much
encouragement to stay IN.  We have been using six strands
of electric wire and that has been fine but this new
pasture will be mostly out of sight and we don't feel we
could monitor electric fence well enough -- a branch could
come down on it and we wouldn't know.  So I'm looking for
an alternative.  

I've tried calling a few fence companies but they don't 
seem to know much about what I could use -- guess they
don't do much "livestock fencing".  One suggestin has been
"game fencing" but I'm worried that the size of the squares
might let them get their head or leg through it -- we will
have little ones at some point so I'm especially concerned
for them.

Can anybody provide names and descriptions of wire fencing 
that would be at least 5' high (prefer 6') and has small-ish
openings?  It doesn't have to be teeny-tiny like hardware
cloth, probably 3-4" openings is okay.  

Second question, anybody know any fence installers here in
southern NH?  We just don't have the time to do it ourselves
(or the skill, or the interest) and time is running out if
we don't want to wait until next spring!

Sorry for the long question, hope someone can help -- it is
keeping us from taking delivery of our first female!!  Hard
to get much of a breeding program going with a stud and a
gelding.


JanB
Weeping Willow Farm

    At 5' or 6' high you're out of the range of most livestock fences that
    I'm familiar with. Most of that stuff comes in 4' heights. Have you
    seen the 'game fence' so you're sure it wouldn't work for you?
    
    The 'basic' wire livestock fence sounds like it might work if you 
    can find it in the right height. It has 4" wide rectangles. Some brands
    have smaller openings down low and taller ones up top. They might work.
    Go to your local Agway or Merrimack Farmers(if they're still in
    business) to look at some livestock fence and ask what heights they can 
    special order for you. 
    
    If you can't get 6' in one shot, you could probably get 3' high fence
    and just have the fence company install a double row so you end up
    w/6'.
    
    Another option is chain link but that would be pretty pricey. Out here
    in WA, fence companies charge about $6.50 a running foot to install 6'
    high heavy duty chain link fence. To fence an about acre, you'd have to 
    run a minimum of 800' of fence since a square field of 208' on each 
    side make an acre. If the field is rectangular or follows a 
    road/creek/woods or something like that, you'd need more fence to get 
    an acre. Anyway, fencing an acre with chain link would cost you over 
    $5,000 unless prices in NH are lots cheaper.
    
    Come to think of it, having a company install your fence is going to be
    costly no matter what kind of fence it is...

Thanks John, I'm starting to think game fence may be my
best option -- I'm just not sure about the bigger "holes"
at the top.  I do know some people who use it for their
llamas and guanacos and we're going to talk to them about 
it.

I did have one company discuss light weight chain link, it
would be $3.50-4.00 a linear foot installed; then plus steel
posts and a gate ($300-400 for the gate).  Somehow we aren't
sure the aesthetics would be right, chain link and domestic
livestock sounds a bit odd!

We'll keep looking...


JanB

    
    I purchased special wire mesh fencing made for horses/livestock.
    
    If I remember correctly, it came in a choice of 5 or 6' height,
    with rectangular style mesh, with each section specially designed
    to be snag-proof and safe.  Each corner of the rectangle has been
    wrapped to make the wire safe-Where the wire crosses, a / style
    piece of wire is put.  Each opening is about 3"x4"....   
                        
                        ________________________ 
    			|          |           |
    			|	   |           |
     			|          |           |
    
    
    Lynne

    look around for a `Diamond Mesh' Fencing vendor.  It is a very safe
    fencing material for livestock....espicially foals.  It's probably
    competitive to other material.
    
    
    The links look like little divided diamonds in a rectangle.  Small
    enough to keep little feet in and other  kritters out.
               -------  
    	       | / \ |
    	       |/   \|
               |\   /|
               | \ / |
               -------      

    Has anyone in here recently done any fence painting? With spring almost
    here, Im getting ready to finish replacing the last section of 'old'
    fencing, and start painting all the 'new'. After spending the past 2
    summers setting 57 posts in concrete and,(even harder!), tearing down
    the older less secure stuff, I want all my hard work to look good :-).
    Can anyone recommend any good quality paint that will not harm a horse
    that takes a nibble on it? My two chew very little, but I dont' want to
    take any chances. I also need to paint the barn exterior this summer,
    too, once the room is built over the aisle and the exterior sliding
    doors hung.
     

Disclaimer: I have never painted a fence so I don't have any first hand 
experience. I have never done business with any of the companies I'm
about to mention so I know very little about them.

There was an article in The Blood Horse a year or 2 ago about maintaining
the fences on TB breeding farms. The big ones have miles and miles of fences.
It mentioned that lots of TB farms were changing to this new black paint and
that they really liked it. The article also mentioned some other types of
paint that were commonly used in KY.

So, I dug out(or rather Jan did. I'm hopeless with the jumble that passes 
for our coffee table) The Blood Horse's annual book of supply houses, etc.

Under paint contractors and supplies I found the companies from the article:

C & C Paint & Supply, 210 Mill Creek Park, Frankfort KY 40601,
    Phone: (800)255-3362 or (502)695-4090 "Suppliers of Black Fence Coating"

Lexington Paint & Supply, 103 Park Central Ct, Nicholasville KY 40356,
    Phone: (800)888-0480 or (606)885-7276 "Complete fence paint line"

Porter Paints, 199 Moore Drive, Lexington KY 40503,
    Phone: (606)276-1447 "The only environmentally sound fence coating"

They sound like they'd be good to talk to even if you decide you don't want
to use(or can't afford) their products.

Let us know what you decide on.

John

    Thanks for the info John! "the only environmentally sound fence
    coating" certainly sounds intriguing, I'll give them a call and see
    what they have to say!  Im not sure I can talk myself into black fences,
    though....my house and garage all both bluish grey with black doors and
    white trim, I've been planning on painting the barn to match, with the
    exterior barn doors being black and the fences white. The area I have
    do really isn't that much, 57 posts was a lot when I was digging 3 ft
    deep holes and dragging around 40 lb bags of concrete, but it really
    only circumvents a average sized sand/clay ring and a paddock beyond
    that's about the same size, so I don't think painting it will really be
    all that much hassle every few years or so.  I do have an additional
    5 acres behind that is partially cleared (needs to be de-stumped) that
    I'd like to fence off someday as pasture....but I'll be looking into
    the vinyl fencing for THAT large an area! :-)
    
    Thanks again, I'll let you know what I find out!
    
    - Linda
    

    I know what you mean about wanting all your HARD work to look
    good... in the past 2 years we have put in almost 200 fence posts.
    Sure, the ol' JD tractr and auger 'dug' the holes... but who laid
    on the ground (in pony_poop land) and picked out the boulders that
    NH is infamous for?!  US!  :-)
    
    We used Olympic 'outdoor' white.  Even the sections that we didn't
    have a chance to put a second coat on look good.  
    
    Sorry, but there is NO way I would paint them black.  Looks are
    as important as functionality.  Have to draw the line somewhere.
    How much is maintainence worth?  When I have to look at _black_
    fences for every other day of the year... NO WAY.
    
    Are you in or near New Hampshire?  We'd love to have you drop in
    and check out the corrals.  We're in Wilton, on Temple Mountain
    right off Route 101.
    
    My husband (the non-rider in the family) is very proud of his hard
    work installing these fences (one corral is an olympic size arena)
    and hay shed, barn, etcetcetc.  I wouldn't have any of these nice
    extras with out him! :-)  He does all the work - I ride.  Such a
    deal.
    
    
    Cheryl

    Cheryl,
    
    Im in Weare, NH, not that far from you, maybe someday I'll get a 
    chance to stop by.  I wish I had the benefit of a tractor and
    auger, I dug all my post holes by hand (tried one of those
    mechanical things, it was useless with all the rock), 3 feet
    deep, and filled 'em back up with concrete 10 minutes later. :-)
    Hubby designed and did (and is finishing) the main structure of the barn,
    Im doing the smaller stuff (building doors, the fold-up loft ladder,
    painting)...he's been a great sport about it, thankfully, but building
    the fence was a pet project of my own, I actually rather enjoyed it
    (most of the time), learned how to set concrete under water, and can
    now hammer a nail straighter than most men I know. :-)
    
    I'll look into 'Olympic'...thanks for the suggestion!
    
    - Linda
    

    I went through what your going through two years ago.  We put up a nice
    post & rail fence, using cement for the posts.  But as far as the
    painting goes we used a good oil based white paint and ran a single
    strand of electric fence on the inside of the top rail.  We kept it low
    enough so you can't see it from the outside of the fence but high
    enough to keep the horses from cribbing.  Two years later I do not have
    one chewed up board and the fence looks good as new.      

    A friend also mentioned running electric to prevent chewing, I decided
    against it because, well, I just don't *like* electric....it's
    unsightly, an expense I don't need, and a hassle to deal with on
    a daily basis (IMO, I know it is very common and most people *do*
    like it). Thanks for the suggestion, though!
    
    As far as paint, after talking to several different hardware stores,
    I have decided to go with a good oil based stain rather than paint. It
    can be colored white, and I am told that stain is a lot less inclined
    to chip off and is also non-toxic (unless the horse drank a whole
    gallon at once)...and while my TB *is* daft, I think I can manage
    to keep opened cans away from him. :-) Im also told that stain applies
    itself to pressure treated wood much better than paint, and while my
    rails are not pressure treated, my posts are and with as many to do as
    I have I'd like it to be as easy as possible.  
                                                

    
    
    When can we get some 2-rail or 3-rail fence, 10 ft sections, relatively
    cheap??
    
    We need 10, 10 foot sections for Comets paddock area, the rest will
    be electric, but the prices we are getting are really high.
    
    Any suggestions?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mary
    

    Hi Mary,
    
    Did you try Moore Lumber in Ayer?  That's where we go for build it
    yourself posts and rails.  They have a store in the center of town
    and a yard a little bit further out. 
    
    gwen
    

    
    Has anyone had recent experience with vinyl fencing?  I've seen so
    much of this fencing going up everywhere.  It certainly looks
    safer than other materials, and if you like the look of rail 
    fencing, it's pretty close.  Is there a local manufacturer?
    How easy was it to install?  
    
    - Janice  

    I have a neighbor who has it, and has for the past 5 or 6 years.  It
    looks wonderful (although she only got 4' high; I would have gone for
    5'). I have no idea how easily it went up - but it IS leaning. One
    whole line appears to have loosened up considerably and is toppling
    inward at a pretty good pitch.  Her area is very rocky, perhaps it was
    too difficult to get the posts in deep enough where she installed.

    I installed Triple Crown vinyl fencing 2 years ago and I absolutely
    LOVE it.  It is quite a bit more expensive than wood but:  the horses
    don't chew it, it always looks nice, it gives nicely when they run into
    it, it doesn't rot, it is sturdier than wood for my horses at least.  I
    had part of it professionally installed and my husband and I installed
    the rest.  It was VERY easy to install.  I love it and I'll never have
    to replace it.  I too have the 4ft height but I don't have jumpers ;-).