Conference noted::equitation

Mary Ann,

  My advice is this:  Go ahead and breed your mare, but make sure you have
the time to give to the foal.  Also, be sure that your boarding facilities 
can handle caring for a mare and foal.  The fact that your mare is unregistered
doesn't matter.  If your mare is a maiden (never foaled) then you might be more
concerned about her exact age.  If she's foaled before, however, you probably
don't have anything to worry about.  
  Be sure that the stallion is a suitable representation of what you want in
a foal.  Consider all your options for selecting a stallion, keeping in mind
size, conformation, disposition, and the performance record of the stallion.
   I'm breeding my mare this spring also and I still haven't selected the
stallion yet.  I've been looking at them since January.  
   Above all, be sure that you want to take on the responsibility of caring for
a foal and that you really want to have it (no one is pressuring you into it).

--Melinda

    Hi.  
    
    I agree with the person that answered before me that this should
    be something you want to do, for a couple of reasons.
    
    Financially, pregnant mares need better and more feed which of
    course costs us $$.  After the foal is born, he will need feed
    while nursing and need quite a bit of feed once weaned.  This
    also means vet expenses that you may not have had before.
    
    As far as the age of the mare, the mare I had and most of the
    others I've been around raced until they could no longer do so
    and then were used for breeding.  Most mares did not have their
    first foals until age 9 on.  Since you do not know if your mare
    has ever had a foal before, perhaps it might be worthwhile to
    have a vet check her.  They might be able to determine if she's
    ever had a foal.  If it turns out that she has never foaled be-
    fore, you may want to tell your vet. what you as a rider would
    like to do with your horse as far as riding and jumping.  Exer-
    cise is the best thing for most mares if their in condition and
    this tends to keep their condition and make for easier foalings.
    (At least this has been my experience).  But, do remember
    that once your mare foals, it may not be so easy to ride her
    while she has a foal at her side.  Most foals are not weaned
    from the mares at least 4-6 months and the foals do not like
    being separated when they are this young.  So this could mean
    some downtime for you as far as riding goes and you may want
    to plan to breed your mare so that she would foal before the
    height of the riding season so that the foal would be weaned
    and you would not have to worry about separating the foal from
    the mare when you want to ride her.
    
    I was nervous about my first foal so I read most books on the
    subject and discovered that feeding is probably one of the
    most important things.  And expensive.  Also, periodic vet
    checks to check both the mare and the unborn foal.  
    
    From your note, I gathered that the person where you board
    seems to be encouraging you to do this.  If it were me, and
    owning two horses was an issue as far as money and time, I
    would find out why.  Perhaps he is interested in purchasing
    the foal for himself.  If so, you would know before hand that
    you would not be faced with double board bills, vet bills,
    etc. and a young horse to train to boot.
    
    Hope this has helped.  If you have more questions, feel free
    to write.
    
    Linda
    
      

    Mary Ann,
    
    You might also consider before breeding your mare whether you can
    afford to pay board on a second horse.  When the foal is weaned
    from its dam it will have to eat grain and hay and need it's own
    stall.  An unregistered colt or filly won't often sell as quickly
    either as a registered one, so you might end up paying for it longer
    than planned (provided you planned on selling it in the first place).
    
    There is also the expense of veterinarian bills that could occur
    during or after the pregnancy, farrier, shots.  You didn't mention
    if the stallion service was free or you'd have to pay for it.  
    
    If I read your message correctly, you stated you rode on the weekends.
    I know from past experience that weekends are just not enough time
    if you have two horses to look after even when boarding them; boarding
    stables are only obligated to take care of the feeding, stall cleaning,
    and if you're lucky daily turnout.  You'll have to do, or arrange
    for, the training and exercising of your horse(s) yourself.
    
    A foal is awfully cute but you have to be realistic when considering
    breeding!
    
    Good luck!
    Pat
    

Hi, Mary Ann

	More advice on breeding..
		
	I have a mare (Standardbred) who I breed every year. I find
that foals are a lot of work and expense. Your other replies verify 
this. If YOU want to have a foal for the joy of it and can spend the
time and expense on growing this foal, training it, etc. go ahead
and do it.

	If your doing it just to have another horse to call your own,
you can buy one for less then what it would cost you to raise your.
I know of many cases where owners of foals cann't even get enough money
for them to pay the stud fees.

	Don't get me wrong, owning foals and watching them grow is
at times fun. However, it requires a lot of time and commitment. (unless
you have some else taking care of them for you). One other thing is that
breeding irequires a long commitment. It takes 11 months after their
bred before they foal (providing they catch whic is another whole story).
Then 2 yrs of caring and training.

	Like the other messages to you stated..make sure you want this.


< Note 25.0 by ATLAST::WAYER >
                            -< Advice on Breeding >-

    Hi
    
    I'm new to horses so I'm looking for a little advice.
    I own an unregistered warm blood mare.  She is a beautiful
    bay and she has the nicest temperment.  She is any where
    from 12 to 14 years old.
    
    The man that owns the stable where she is being board thinks
    that I should breed her.  He would like to breed her to a
    bay registered quarter horse.
    
    Right now I only ride her for pleasure on the weekends.  Once
    I get better at riding I hope to work her a little harder.
    She can jump but I can't so once I learn to jump we will be
    doing alot of practice.
    
    The question is should I breed her?
    
    Thanks
    
    Mary Ann
    
    
    

    Mary Ann 
    
    As a permanently destitute owner of a number of horses I have been
    involved with horses both in the show world and in the professional
    side. My advice is to go to the local knackery and look at all the
    horses which were bought at the local auction. If you don't have
    a mare which is pretty damn good then thats where your foal is 
    going to eventually end up. Like some one else said you can buy
    a horse which will be right for you a lot cheaper than you can
    
    breed and raise one.
    
    
    

    I KNOW THAT THIS IS A LITTLE LATE OF A REPLY BUT I JUST FOUND OUT
    ABOUT THIS EQUINE NOTE.
    
    YES, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO HAVE A FOAL AND HAVE THE PROPPER FACILITIES
    TO HAVE A MARE FOALING AND TO KEEP THEM IN AFTER THE FOAL IS BORN.
    I BREED MY APPALOOSA'S  EACH YEAR AND WILL BREED THEM FOR THREE
    YEARS THEN GIVE THEM A YEAR OFF. I EITHER SELL THE FOALS OR KEEP
    THEM TILL THEY ARE GREEN BROKE AND SELL THEM. I ENJOY SHOWING THE
    WEANLINGS AND YEARLINGS IN HALTER CLASSES AND I ALSO ENJOY TRAINING
    THEM. ( ALTHOUGH SOME TIMES YOU SHOULD HEAR ME OUT THERE WITH THEM)
    
    I THINK THAT I WOULD TEND TO STAY WITH A STALLION THE SAME BREED
    AS YOUR MARE OR ANOTHER WARM BLOOD. THIS WAY IT WILL MAKE YOUR FOAL
    MORE VALUABLE TO SELL. 
    
    THE OTHER THIN IS, IS THAT YOU WILL DEFINATELY WILL WANT TO CHECK
    WITH YOU VET. ON YOUR HORSES HEALTH. YOU CAN CONTINUE TO USE THE
    MARE ONCE BRED AS SHE IS USE TO (TRAIL RIDING, JUMPING, SHOWING,
    ETC.)
    
    I DO KNOW THAT IT WAS A QUESTION IN MY MIND ON BREEDING MY HORSES
    ONE WAS 13 YEARS OLD WHEN I STARTED TO BREED HER AND SHE HAS NO
    PROBLEMS AT ALL AND IVES ME NICE COLORED FOALS.
    
    GOOD LUCK AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT YOU DID.
    
    THERESA (TERRY)

    I just put a binder on a 12.5 acre farm.  The farm has a small barn
    and 8 fenced acres.  So once I get settled in my new home I may
    go ahead and breed my mare.  
    
    Since I'm so new to the horse world, I'm still a little afraid
    to take the big step and breed my mare.  I have been a city person
    all of my life, this is the first time out in the country.  I have
    been reading books on how to maintain you pasture and what are the
    best feeds to feed your horse.  If any one has any hints on how
    to be a farmer please reply to this note or maybe we can start
    a new note on how to manage your horse farm.
    
    Mary Ann

I just bought a house last fall with enough room to keep my horse. I've
never kept one before, but always boarded out. Also, I've only had a
horse of my own for 2 1/2 years now. So, I can tell you I was scared
to death!!

I found that the best thing I ever did was to join a horseowners' club
(Littleton [MA] Horse Owners Assn.) Every time I get together with the group
I pick someone's brain with all the questions I come up with - feed, bedding,
fencing, hay, feet, vitamins, horse habits, and a million and one little
things that are always happening. This notes file might serve the same
purpose for you, but I think talking with others face to face about
things like this is really the best way.

If you have a good vet and farrier, too, who will come out right away
when there's a problem, that helps. So far, either I've been very
fortunate or keeping a horse isn't so difficult as I thought it would
be! You'll get more and more comfortable, and soon will really enjoy
it - especially those cold winter mornings when you haul water out to
the little darlings! It's really not so bad!

Good luck!
Julie

    RE .7 -- There is a book called THE HORSE by Evans, Borton, Hintz
    and Van Vleck.  It costs about $35, but it is well spent.  It covers
    everything imaginable about horses -- housing, feeding, worming,
    pasture management, genetics and breeding, advertising, etc.  It's
    been used as a text book in colleges before, too.
    
    Joining a user group for horses it also invaluable for all the reasons
    Julie outlined.  The group can also be a potential outlet for sales
    of you foals.  The trap we sometimes fall into, however, is selling
    to other breeders primarily; we (my amateur Arabian owners group)
    are looking to sell to non-horse owners and expand the ranks!!!

    Another excellent book about breeding is one which I think is called
    "Broodmare Management" but I can't remember the author. It is an
    absolutely fabulous book however, if you've never had a mare foal,
    it is like reading a medical book if you are not a doctor; it'll
    make you nervous about every little thing at first!
    
    Linda
    

    I need some advise from some of you experienced breeders out there!
    
    I took a mare to Pennsylvania to be bred at the end of
    February...having my usual luck at this game (I tried breeding
    another mare for 2 years and still don't have a foal!) the mare has not
    taken yet.  I haven't given up hope but it seems she will be there
    awhile longer than I had hoped.  Anyway, I want to get the mare home
    as soon as possible... the owner wants her back for "light" riding
    and I don't love paying expensive board.  
    
    However, I have just been advised that it is unwise to trailer the
    horse home until she is 45+ days.  This person said that due to the
    stress of the trip the mare may re-absorb.  I really hadn't taken this into
    consideration and am wondering what other people have experienced? 
    She is a 7 hour trailer ride from home, is used to short trips,
    and rode down beautifully.  But she is a fairly high strung TB (has
    had one previous foal on the farm where she was bred and raised).  I
    want to do the smartest thing.....I really can't run back and forth to
    PA too easily and I don't want to risk losing the foal. 
    
    Help!  What should I do?
    
    Jeannie

    
    There was an article published recently (meaning the past 2 or 3
    months) by Colorado State University regarding trailering pregnant mares.
    As I recall it refuted lots of the myths arouind shipping a pregnant
    mare.
    
    I will look around and see what journals it was published in.

    Mary Jo

My vet, Dr. Daryl Smiley, recommended that I transport my mare immediately
after breeding, but not after 17 days.  The 17th day is the "implantation
stage" and this is when they are more prone to abort.   

   Jeannie, you can have the PA vet do a progesterone assay on the mare
    you have bred.  If it's normal, bring her home.  If it's too low,
    and I don't recall the minimum -- probably 9 -- you can give her
    either Regumate or natural progesterone.  Regumate is VERY expensive
    and has to be given more frequently than natural progesterone, which
    is given every five days.  Once she's started on the progesterone,
    you can trailer her.  
    
    From experience, I've learned that you can't always go by the horse's
    history.  I bred a mare in KY last spring.  She had been a problem-free
    mare.  The KY vet said, given the distance to my home in Maryland,
    he would put the mare on Regumate until she was sonogrammed in foal.
    When I got her home, my vet suggested an assay; the mare was "9."
     We put her on natural progesterone; at the end of the time period,
    she was at the top of the scale.  (I'm sorry I don't recall the
    exact figures.)  Given the distance to KY, I'm certainly glad I
    did this.
    
    NOTE:  My vet said inclusive studies are showing a problem with
    filly foals whose dams have been put on Regumate (not the natural
    progesterone, however) for an extended period.  Anybody hear of
    this?
    
    --Merrie

    If anyone has any info on the effects of Regumate on filly foals,
    I would be very interested - because my mare was put on this due
    to low progesterone levels.  The resulting foal was a filly, who
    will be 2 this June and seems healthy so far.
    
    One effect, possibly related to the progresterone, was that the
    mare carried this filly for 4 days short of a year.  Of course,
    that is still within the "normal" gestation period.  But, on the
    label, it does mention that a possible side effect is longer
    gestation.  Also interesting, is that on the label it specifically
    says, not intended for use in pregnant mares.  It's normal use is
    to aid in timing conception.  However, it is widely used to maintain
    pregnancies anyway.  My vet assured me he had seen no adverse affects,
    as did a consulting vet from one of the most respected clinics in
    Colorado.
    
    That Regumate is nasty stuff if you're a woman.  It's a liquid,
    and can be absorbed through the skin, and can really mess up women
    of child-bearing age!  After reading the label, I had my husband
    dose the mare's food; I didn't want to go near it in case it spilled.
    Kept a close eye on him to make sure his voice wasn't getting any
    higher... ;^)

    Thanks for the info on getting a progesterone test.....I will
    definitely talk to the vet about it!  I'm am really concerned because
    the mare re-absorbed after being bred in March....she is now being
    bred again.   I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
    
    Jeannie
    

    There are certainly expenses involved in breeding a mare, and they
    depend on how expensive your vet is, since most of the expense is
    medical.  I spent a few years breeding Thoroughbreds, using my own
    stallion and broodmares.  I obviously didn't have to pay stud fees, but
    here are some of the things you might have to pay for.
    
    	o Pre-breeding exam of the mare -- and then possible treatment for
    	any infections, etc.
    
    	o If your mare does not cycle regularly, and/or you or the
    	personnel at the farm where you send her aren't able to tell
   	exactly when she's in season, then you will have to have her
        palpated by a vet to determine if the follicle is ready to burst,
        and she is therefore ready to breed.
    
        o If you want ultrasound, this expense will be incurred within 15
        days of her being bred.  I used this only when I had a mare that
        previously had twins.  Otherwise I just "teased" the mares 21 days
        after they were bred, and if they showed no interest, then I would
        have them examined by the vet.
    
        o  Once the mare is determined to be in foal, you might want to
        have a Caslicks done to prevent infection, although there are
        differences of opinion as to the effectiveness of this.  If you
        do have it done, you will then, of course, have to have the mare
        opened again at least two weeks before her foaling date.
    
        o  You will want to have rhino shots in the 5th, 7th, and 9th
        months of her pregnancy.
    
        o  You will most likely need a feed supplement of some kind,
        after determining the quality of your feed and hay.
    
        o  It's been my experience that, although you won't have to
        increase you mare's feed too much in the early months, you
        certainly will during the last 3 months or so.  And nothing
        eats as much as a lactating mare!  I had one mare who needed
        20+ lbs of grain, plus free choice hay to maintain her weight.
        When not in foal, this mare stayed fat on 6 lbs of grain per
        day, and about 10 lbs of hay.
    
        o  There will also, of course, be LOTS of expenses related to the
    	foal.  There's the day-it's-born checkup of both the foal and
        the mare, including various shots, which are repeated a month
        later.  (Also, you will want to give your mare her spring shots
        during the month before she foals so that these immunizations pass 
        to the foal.)
    
        o  If your mare has a colt, you will want him gelded in a year or
        so.  So add in this expense also.
    
    All in all, it is *not cheap* to breed a mare and raise a foal.  But
    it is a wonderful experience.  If you decide to do it, and want more
    info let me know.
    
    -ellie 

    re.last
    
    thanks! alot!
    
    that rasies another question.. what are the chances of my mare having
    a colt?? :*}
    
    plus, if i dont want the colt after weanling age.. how hard is it to
    get rid of a 8 month colt??
    (if its papered aqha???)
    
    wendy o'
    

    Chances of your mare having a colt are 50/50.  As for your chances of
    selling a weanling colt, they are considerably less, given todays
    market.  Papers don't mean a whole lot, since there are *lots* of
    registered horses for sale out there.  It's really hard to sell the
    youngsters unless they are top show lines, blah, blah.  And even then
    it's unlikely that you'd make back what it cost you.  The only reason
    to breed a horse right now - since there's no market - is to have it
    for yourself.  Or to take a chance on training it and showing it and
    then selling it as a successful competitor.  (But you don't necessarily
    have to start with a baby to do this!)

    I am breeding my TB mare next season.  We tried for this season but the
    $$$ was gone.  Her name is Stealthy and is a grand-daughter to Bold
    Ruler (can't beat that).  She was given to us when a friend bought her
    then bowed her and didn't wan't to pay the vet bills or take care of
    her anymore.  She is about 21 years old.  She did have perfect legs
    before this boof-head got her.
    The bow heald just fine and we even ride her sometimes.  We found a
    stallion by the name of Joe College Cool.  Has anybody heard of him?
    
    
    virginia

    The stallion owner should be able to provide you with information about
    the horse's pedigree and racing record, if that is what you are
    interested in.  Whether or not people have heard of a particular
    stallion is neither here nor there when it comes to choosing a mate for
    your mare.  Are you looking to breed a race horse or a performance
    horse?  If you are interested in breeding a performance horse, then the
    atallion's conformation and way of going might be more important than
    enything in his pedigree.  What you might want to look for in his
    racing career in this case would be an indication of durability.  For
    instance, a record that showed lots of starts with no long layups might
    be better than a few big wins with layups in between.  A performance
    horse has to last a long time.
                                                           
    The suggestions about racing record, of course, do not apply if the
    stallion isn;t a Thoroughbred (or a Quarter horse or Arab that has
    raced).  You don't mention what breed the stallion is, and I'm guessing
    it could be some other breed since you ride western....
    
    But good luck with your venture.  It can be very rewarding to breed
    your own foal.
    
    -ellie

    If it's a QH Stallion, then the foal can be registered as an
    Appendiz QH.   If an Arabian, the foal can be registered as
    a 1/2 Arabian.  
    
    I like breeding a QH w/ a T'bred.  Makes for a nice hunter/jumper!
    
    L-

    Interestingly enough, when you breed a quarterhorse to a thoroughbred,
    you could end up with something that's almost all thoroughbred.  For
    instance, the sire of the quarterhorse stallion Berry Impressive (who used
    to stand at Wayne Cashman's farm down the street from me) was 7/8
    thoroughbred.  
    
    -e

    I had an appendix QH mare when I was in high school, she was about
    50/50, and a wonderful horse. I never showed her myself, she was only
    5 when I sold her and had no jumping training yet, but she went on to
    be very successful for her new owner. This combination is at the top of
    my list for my next horse! (If I cant figure a way to breed my
    Standardbred mare to Starman that is..:-)....
    

    And furthermore, the fact that the name Bold Ruler appears in the mares
    pedigree doesn't mean anything! Lots of the Bold Ruler stock couldn't
    run a lick, lots of them were unsound and lots of them had obnoxious
    temperaments....and then there was Secretariat, who was gorgeous, fast,
    kind, intelligent and sound.
    
    My point is that you should judge BOTH your mare and the stallion by
    their own qualities as well as pedigree. Neither one alone is enough.
    
    Now, about the cow shit, dairy farmers get lots of it one their shoes
    but that doesn't make them horsemen, horsewomen or riders