Conference noted::equitation

  I've always used Trush-X ( available at most grain and tack shops).
  Never had any problems with it. I've used the bleach trick when
  I ran out.
  
  Keep 'em clean and you have the fewest problems!
  
  /tb/
  

    I use Thrush-x too.  At the track where I trained my colt, we
    all used Thrush-x as a matter of course, once or twice a week
    whether they had it or not.  
    
    I use hoofmaker too and like it.
    (P.S. I carry this at the tackshop.  I carry any product that
    I use and like because I feel I can honestly recommend it.)
    
    

    	My farrier uses Trush-X when needed on a horse and he is very
    	pleased with the results.  I have never used it on one of my
    	horses - but I have on my dogs to toughen up their pads on
    	their feet so they can tromp the trails with me and my
    	nag and I think it works great for that too.
    
    	Susan

     	OOOOOps........  I went home and checked - I use Kopertox!!
    
    	Sorry.....  gotta look afore ya leap!
    
    	Susan

    Kopertox and thrush x are very similar. Both do the job well.
    I use Hoof maker too, It's the best I've seen so far.
    
    

    I, LIKE DAVE, HAVE FOUND HOOF MAKER TO BE A GREAT PRODUCT.  FOR
    THE LADIES TO NOTE, IT ALSO IMPROVED THE STRENGTH OF MY FINGERNAILS,
    (I APPLIED THE PRODUCT BY HAND).
    
    ANOTHER GREAT PRODUCT MY BLACKSMITH GOT ME TO USE IS REDUCINE. 
    HE USES IT ON HIS TRACK HORSES BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BE SHOD EVERY
    TWO WEEKS.  IT REALLY PROMOTES HOOF GROWTH BUT BE CAREFUL WITH IT.
    USING IT MORE THAN TWICE A WEEK OR SO WILL CAUSE BLISTERING.  (NICE
    TO KNOW IF YOU NEED TO BLISTER SOMETHING ON PURPOSE)
    
    REGARDS.
    
    
    ANN

    I was wondering if anyone out there has had problems with quarter
    cracks.  My horse has a quarter crack on her right front hoof that
    she has had since she was 2 and a half.  She is trimmed and shod
    regularly, but within the last week, she has really showed signs
    of tenderness.  Today, when I checked her out, she definitely was
    favoring her right front hoof.  Although she is trimmed and shod
    regularly, it seems that this past time, her hoof really grew extra
    fast and her hoof has overgrown the shoe.  I have been trying to
    reach the blacksmith the past few days, with no luck yet.  I am
    having the vet come out tomorrow to check her for pregnancy and
    I plan on having him look at her hoof.  Would her hoof being long
    at the moment cause her to be sore?  I also noticed that next to
    the crack, there seems to be a chip knocked out of her hoof and
    a bulge has developed.  I have been told that this could possibly
    be an abcess, but I really won't know until tomorrow when the vet
    looks at her.
    What I was wondering is if there is anybody out there that has had
    a problem with quarter cracks, and what do you do to prevent them
    from getting worse.  I had heard that a bar shoe may be one solution
    to give the hoof more support.  Also, does anyone know whether or
    not pads will help support the hoof. If pads are used, is there
    a possibilty that moisture can get trapped under the pads and cause
    thrush?  Does anyone out there know anything about hoof bonding?
    Is it sucessful, or could it just cause more problems.  I had heard
    that the hoof is mutilated to use bonding?  Anyone with any remarks
    on this?   Any suggestions on how to keep my horse sound?  The crack
    when she first got it did go up into the coronet band, but at the
    moment it is heeled about a half inch below the coronet band.  Any
    suggestions on suppliments that I could give her to help her hoof
    condition.    Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
                                                 Sarah

I am not a "Hoof Expert" but my Morgan mare had really bad feet,
and I had the blacksmith keep her in front pads.  Her hoof walls
were thin and the foot surface was very sensitive to stones - the
pads really made a big difference.

I was also very concerned about thrush, but she never developed it.

I hope that between the vet and the blacksmith, your horse's problem 
can be corrected.

	Your farrier should be able to take care of the quarter cracks. He
must deal with the existing crack and also the cause. It takes time for the
hoof to grow out and until it does your farrier should be checking it and
cutting it back every few weeks.
	If you use pads, the foot should be packed with a medicated hoof 
packing. The packing will prevent thrush and adds moisture to the sole and
heel.
	A long hoof will not necessarily cause tenderness. It does throw
the angle off causing strain on the tendons of the lower leg. An overgrown
foot is also more likely to pick up and hold debris which in turn creates
foot trouble.
	My guess is that the foot is abscessed or bruised. After the vet
treats it, find a good farrier who is experienced in corrective shoeing.
He will give you better advice than you can get from any of us.

	Good luck,
		Tyke

    Well, the vet checked her out today for abscess or bruise and she
    did not show extreme tenderness with the blunt pronged tool?  I
    sure do not know what its called, but it looks rather wicked.  He
    said that it looks like her hoof is too long and that it is possibly
    putting pressure on the crack.  I still have not been able to get
    a hold of the farrier yet, but hope that he will soon return my
    message.  The vet did suggest that maybe a bar shoe with the side
    of the hoof trimmed to prevent pressure on the crack.
    Does anyone know of a farrier that works in the Sterling, Ma. area
    that does reputable work and is good when it comes to corrective
    shoeing?  
    Re. 2  Is the medicated hoof packing that was mentioned in this
    reply.  Is this something that has to be bought specially?  Does
    the farrier have to pack the hoof before he puts the pads on, or
    is this something that can be done after the pads have been put
    on?  I hate to sound ignorant, but I have never heard of the hoof
    packing before, although it does sound like a good idea.  Especially
    if the horse has bad feet.

    

    			MEDICATED STUFF
    
    
    WELL HERE GOES... The shoer generally packs the hoof with pine tar,
    to keep any moisture out of the hoof. therefore would keep thrush
    out. the pads that are used are leather or rubber. I really couldn't
    tell you what was better because I have never had to use them. maybe
    someone might be able to add to this note. I especailly would be
    interested.   also if your horse does have a quater crack the most
    practical thing to do for your horse is to put a bar shoe on to
    keep to hoof together and keeping the pressure off the weak spot.
    Iwould do this before trying the pads or use both!
    

    	My old nag has had a very bad quarter crack for going on two
    	years now.  At one point, the hoof cracked open about one
    	inch.  I tried manythings to keep the hoof moist, but to no
    	avail (my farrier told me that because of his age, it would
    	be a long process to heal it).
    
    	I put shoes on his front feet and that didn't help - the sand
    	would just get under there and was also separating the outside
    	from the white line.  So we went with the pads.  I have had
    	leather - I don't care for them.  You have to check to make
    	sure that they don't dry out - or get too soggy.
    
    	Also, if you have pads and the farrier uses packing - I had
    	a bad experience with the kind that they use a kinda rope material
    	with the pine tar (Tyke Frost might know what I mean...)  When
    	that pine tar kinda drys out - that rope stuff can act as an
    	abrasive and work it's way into the sole - or, in my case -
    	the white line and cause problems.
    
	So, what I have now on him is kind of a rubbery plastic pad
    	on both front feet and my farrier (Jack Sullivan) packs his
    	feet with a medicated packing and then a piece of spongey
    	stuff over the frog, then the pads - it really works super!
    
    	Every three weeks or so, (if there isn't alot of rain) I 
    	take some veggy oil and squirt some under the pads.  Just
    	to make sure that the medication doesn't dry out.
    
    	Lots of endurance folks use pads....  I try not to use them
    	unless I have to.  I don't on the horse I ride now.  But if
    	your farrier is experienced and packs them well and you do
    	follow-up on them, you shouldn't have a problem.
    
    	It may take a long time, but I am sure it will help.  It 
    	did on my nag, Nashoba - he now only has a very small one.
    
    	Oh, try to keep sand and dirt out of it if you can...  it will
    	work it's way in sometimes.  Nashoba's hoof got so bad that
    	you could start to see into his hoof.  Everyday I had to pack
    	the crack so I wouldn't get an absess in there.
    
    	Good luck and hang in there!
    
    	Susan

    
    	Sarah,
    
    	I live in Hubbardston, which is actually just down the road
    from you, and use a ferrier out of Spencer named Bruce Hartshorn.  
    I have recommended him to people in the Princeton, Sterling and 
    Clinton area whose horses have had simliar "feet" problems
    and he has been able in most cases to successfully correct them.
	I highly recommend him in your situation.  Please call or send
    me mail for his telephone #
    
    	- dave 226-2381
    

	I'd like to first reply to the question concerning hoof packing. I've
had the best results with Forshners medicated hoof packing. It is a black clay
like material that fills in very well over the soul and around the frog. The
pad is then applied over the packing. The packing will moistures and soften
a hard dry soil. The medication will prevent thrush. All the farriers I 
know carry a supply.
	The rope type material that Susan refers to is call Oakum. It is 
also used by plumbers. Oakum and pine tar have been in use as packing for
many many years. I think the Oakum and pine tar packing is more difficult
to apply than Forshners and does not work as well. I believe that Jack is
using Forshners on your horse, Susan.
	Unlike Susan, I prefer a leather pad to plastic. I agree that leather
can be a real problem in very wet or very dry weather. 
	Jack Sullivan has been shoeing horses for more than thirty years and
is excellent at corrective shoeing. I frequently ask Jack's advice before
working on a really bad foot. If you can get Jack to come down, I'm sure
you will be very happy with his work.
	A bar shoe will surely help the foot. The crack can also be cut 
away, filed, or wired. The most important thing is that the foot is cared
for until the crack has grown out. You need a farrier who will return at
regular intervals to insure the correct progress of the foot. It should 
probably be checked every 3 or 4 weeks. Good luck.

	Tyke

	

    I have always had my horses wear leather pads, with oakum packing. I've
    never had any problems with it.  At one point I had rubber and
    silicone, my gelding slid right out of them, I watched!   I live
    in a very rocky area, pads keep the foot solid and you don't have
    to worry about stone bruises etc...  I believe my blacksmith (Dick
    Minott) is now using Forshners.
    
    -Marianne-
    

	   There are many ways of dealing with this problem.  The way I 
	was taught seems to follow with what has been said so far.  A
	bar shoe is used and the hoof wall under the crack and back to
	heels is removed as far up the wall as possible.  The bar shoe
	is used to keep the foot from moving and the wall is cut away to
	keep pressure off the crack.  If the crack doesn't reach the 
	coronary band, I have a tool that I made which is nothing more than
	a 16 penny nail welded to a piece of 1/2" round stock.   Make sure
	the end is cut off flat.  I heat this up in the forge and use it to
	burn a round hole right at the top of the crack.  The reasoning
	behind a round hole is that a crack won't follow it.  I have 
	seen everything from a half moon burned into the hoof to rasping
	an X across the top of the crack, round holes work better.
	   Depending on how far back the crack is, I have also laced the 
	crack shut with horseshoe nails.  This works really good, one 
	case I had worked out fine.  It took about 9 months for it
	to grow out.  The problem was on the right hind hoof. The hoof was
	trimmed as described above, a bar shoe was made and clips were drawn
	on both sides of the crack. After the shoe was set, I took a pritchel
	and heated it in the forge.  In this case, the pritchel is used to 
	burn two holes on each side of the crack.  Then, horseshoe nails are
	driven in one hole, thru the crack, into the hole on the opposite 
	side.  The nail head is cut off and the nail is clinched down and 
	rasped smooth.  This really pulls the hoof together and keeps the
	crack from moving around.
	   As far as pads go, I used Diamond plastic pads and silicon.  I
	carry leather pads in my truck but no pine tar.  There you have my
	two cents, good luck.


	Bob Perry

          Well, I finally will be able to get my horse done Monday 
    morning.   One other question that I have also, is will I be 
    able to rider her if I have bar shoes and pads.  I wanted to have
    pads put on all 4 feet, because all 4 are white and seem sensitive
    when we are out on the trail?  Is putting pads on all 4 plausible
    or just a waste of time and money?   I hear so many different things
    from different people.
          

    Hi Bob,
    
      You sound like you have done quite a bit a work on problem hooves.
    I was wondering if you could give me some input on things that I
    can say or do that will ensure that the farrier that is coming in
    on Monday, to do a good job.  When I talked to him, he really did
    not seem interested in doing work on problem feet.  Maybe, he was
    having a bad day, but I really did not feel that he was really all
    that interested.  I have heard from a lot of people that use him,
    that he is really good with working on problem feet, so I would
    like to give him a chance.  My horse has a couple of other problems
    beside the quarter crack.  The same hoof that has the crack also
    has a slight dish.  The shoes that she wears right now, in only
    6 weeks, the toes are really worn, and when I was able to ride her
    she would seem to trip a lot.  I was told that a rolled toe might
    possibly help this, but I am not sure I corrective action can be
    taken on all these problems at once.   I guess what I am really
    asking, is what do I need to tell him to do with her, and how can
    I make sure he is doing what I am asking him to do.   This is my
    first horse and I have owned her for 4 years, but I really am not
    that acknowledgeable on hooves.  
                         Thanks in advance for any advice.
                                                       Sarah
    

    Well, I thought that everyone would like to know that through my
    own ignorance, I was not aware that my horse had slightly foundered.
    Before I moved out here from Colorado, my horse did have a quarter
    crack but did not have the slight dish in her feet.   When the farrier
    trimmed her Monday, he saw some really bad bruises on her feet,
    and told me that he could see a slight shadow of her coffin bone.
     This is the first time she has shown any type of soreness since
    we moved here which was Jan 85.  I had her professionally moved
    and I guess maybe she had stress foundered.  The reason, I feel
    that she had foundered when we first moved here, was the farrier
    that did her feet this time, also had done it last year.  He told
    me that he remembered seeing the shadow of the coffin bone last
    year when he did her.   He did not mention anything to me at the
    time.  I then leased her for breeding, and the people that leased
    her had her trimmed and shod regularly and their farrier never
    mentioned the possibility that she may have foundered.   Well she
    had pads put on with silicone packing.   I rode her lightly today,
    keeping mostly at a walk, and she seem to move a lot easier and
    more freely.  Is there anything that I can do to keep her sound.
    Should I just quit riding her, or is it safe to ride now that she
    has pads to protect her feet.   I was totally shocked that this
    could happen, and that I didn't realize that it had.   I am a novice
    when it comes to horses, and I do not want to harm her.   If keeping
    her sound means that I can't ride her for a while, I am willing
    to do that, because I do not want to cause her anymore problems
    than she already has.   It won't be a total loss, because she is
    in foal.

    Hi
    
    I'm really new to horses, could you please explain what founder
    means.
    
    Mary Ann

	Founder may be brought on by a bad bellyache, a drug reaction, a 
widespread infection, birth complications, a toxicity, feeding errors,
transportation or competitive stress. Laminitis, an excruciatingly painful
lack of circulation in the tissues within the hoof, comes first. If nothing
is done to prevent it, founder, the tilting or sinking of the coffin bone 
due to broken laminar connections comes next.
	Laminitis and founder caused by a grain box binge goes something like 
this over a period of 72 hours: The gut either stops or speeds up. The lower 
legs grow cold, blood pressure drops and endotoxins enter the boodstream 
through damaged intestinal walls. Diarrhea develops and heart rate increases. 
The horse becomes lame and respiration increases. 
	Early treatment is very important to prevent founder. In mild cases,
I tube the horse with mineral oil deal with the endotoxins, I walk him to
encourage circulation and soak his feet in cold water. Some horsepeople 
alternate hot and cold water to open constricted vessels. In more serious
cases drugs should be used. Bute or Banamine to stop vessel constriction 
and clotting. Isoxuprine (sp) to improve blood flow to the feet. I've also
been told that aspirin works better than Bute or Banamine. It works as well
to stop the clotting but does not mask the animal's true condition. DMSO
will speed the the drugs to the feet but it takes alot (90cc).
	Heart bar shoe can do alot to help a foundered horse. I would
strongly suggest, however, that you don't allow anyone to put a heart bar
shoe on without getting an x-ray first. The heart bar shoe also requires
a hoof resection. The hoof has to be opened to allow the trapped fluids
and blood to escape. The heart bar has to be reset every 30 days.
	Ray Legal from Janesville, Iowa is one of the best farriers I know 
for foundered horses. The use of the heart bar shoe for foundered horses
was developed by Burney Chapman or Lubbock, Texas. I don't know anyone 
locally but I suggest you find a vet and a farrier who understand Laminitis 
and founder. Most farriers will only work on a foundered horse with a 
vet's advise. An x-ray is always necessary. It appears that your vet can't 
even recognize founder.
	There is much more to Laminitis and Founder than what I've written
here. If there is any interest I'll be glad to discuss some of the things
I know on the subject.

	Tyke
	

	I just read my reply and discovered I left at least two important
facts out. First, referring to my suggestion to walk horses suffering from
mild Laminitis. Walking should only be done before the lamellar bed breaks
down. Walking after the break down is detrimental.

	I also noticed that you stated that your horse is shod with pads.
I was taught that using pads on a foundered horse is one of the worse things
one can do. The altered position of the coffin bone within the hoof wall set
up further circulatory problems by compressing the vessels between the bone 
and hoof wall or sole. The idea is to shoe in a manner which will prevent
mechanical forces from further damaging laminar attachments and reduce the
physical restriction put on the vessel network.
	When pads or packing press against the sole of a horse whose coffin
bone has rotated or sunk, the circumflex vein and artery at the lower edge
to the coffin bone are destroyed. Without blood supply, further tissue
damage occurs. 
	The goal when shoeing a foundered horse is to remove weight from the 
hoof wall and and transfer it to through the frog into the three phalangeal 
bones.

	Tyke
 

    I have never heard of a "heart" bar shoe.  Can you explain what
    this is and the advantages of it as opposed to a regular bar shoe?
    
    Joan Ray

	Joan, the heart bar shoe was developed many years ago (probably
centuries) to prevent road founder in coach horses. In was refined a few
years ago by Burney Chapman for use with foundered animals.
	The heart bar is a regular shoe which has been heated in a forge
and lips hammered in the heels to receive the heart. A short piece of bar
stock is layed into each lip and pointed towards the toe. The two pieces
meet at just behind the point of the frog. Once the shoe is completed it
sort of looks like a heart. It's a bar shoe except the bar forms a "V"
pointing towards the toe.
	The purpose of the bar is to aply direct pressure to the area 1/4
to 3/8" behind the point of the frog to stabilize the movement of the coffin
bone. The exact location for the point should be determined by x-ray. The
degree of success varies from horse to horse. If pressure is applied before 
rotation occurs, it is possible that the horse can be shod with normal
shoes after a period of time. In other cases the horse will always have
to wear heart bars in order to reamain active.

	Tyke

	   Thanks to Chapman, we now have two heartbar shoes to talk about.  
	The Chapman Heartbar has worked on many occasions here in the 
	Colorado Springs area.  To make the heartbar shoe is not hard, 
	we're using just a regular keg shoe shaped to the hoof with the 
	toe rockered.  Take an old shoe, straighten out the branches and 
	fold the shoe in half to form a wedge.  The wedge is then fitted 
	inside the shoe that was fitted to the hoof.  The important part 
	is the positioning of the wedge, set back from the point of the 
	frog about 3/8" to 1/2".  Once you've figured where the point 
	should be, the wedge is welded in place.  The other tricky part 
	of this operation is how much pressure to apply to the point of
	the frog.  Usually about 1/8" gap with the shoe resting on the
	hoof seems about right.  The purpose of the wedge is to support 
	the coffin bone and to help push it back in place.  The hoof should 
	be trimmed as low in the heels as possible without drawing blood.  
	We're not trying to direct the weight anyplace, the purpose of 
	dropping the heels is to align the coffin bone.  The flair on the 
	front should be rasped off to the white line, if that's what it 
	takes to get a normal looking hoof.  Sometimes there is blood 
	involved with this but that's what it takes to relieve the pressure 
	that has built up under the wall.
	   The dangerous part of this is getting the shoe nailed on without
	getting yourself in trouble.  You have to shoe one hoof completely
	before starting the other.  Once you get the shoe on one side, the 
	horse will generally stand there.  My apron has some marks left in 
	it from the horse pulling its hoof away, and my partner has some 
	holes in his leg.  The horse is sore and doesn't want to stand there 
	and put up with this, its the nailing that really gets to them.
	   You definitely do not put pads on, you can't with this kind of
	shoe anyway.  The hoof probably will have abscesses and that's a
	big problem with founder horses.  The hoof will have to be soaked
	two or three times a day with a warm water and iodine solution.  
	This is where most horse owners fall flat on their faces.  Also,
	another problem is the people don't keep the hoof clean.  Manure
	packs up in the hoof and cuts off the blood flow, then we get a 
	call that the horse isn't doing any better.  Walking the horse is 
	good after its been properly shod, don't ride it, just walk
	it with a lead rope.  Most people won't do this either, this gets
	the blood flowing in the hoof again rather than just leaving the 
	horse in a stall.
	   One horse we did could barely walk out of the stall, we had a 
	great fight on our hands with the first shoe.  After the first shoe
	was on, the second went pretty well except for the nailing.  When
	the job was done, I TROTTED the horse out for the owner.  
	   The shoes have to be reset every 30 days, the first time cost is 
	$75.00 and $50.00 for every reset.  The heartbar will work on a
	horse that has been foundered but has healed on its own, but this
	type of horse can also be shod differently from what we've been 
	talking about.  The flair is still rasped off and the heels are 
	taken down, but you can use a keg shoe, WITH OR WITHOUT A PAD, 
	depending on the horse and the owner's preference.  Rockering the 
	toe helps the hoof break over more easily.  Remember, this does 
	not apply to a newly foundered horse.
	   As far as the vet goes, I wouldn't condemn him yet, I have seen
	a lot of hooves with a flair that aren't foundered and also a seedy 
	toe will fool some people.  Talk to the vet who looked at him and tell
	him what your horseshoer said and see what his opinion is.  This horse 
	business is different, people change vets and shoers like they 
	change their underwear, simply because their neighbor says something.
	


	Anyway, good luck

	Bob Perry

    Hi 
    
    This is part two in the continuing story of my first horse.
    This is the same horse that seems to be having a false pregency.
    
    Seven weeks ago my horse got a small stone bruise on her hoof.
    The bruise made her limp terribly.  I called the farrier her
    removed her shoe and told me to soak her foot.  Soaking the
    foot of a 1200 pound animal is not the easiest thing but I
    succeeded.  A week later she seemed better so I rode her very
    slowly not a hard work out.  The next day she is limping even
    more then before but now her shoulder is swollen, so I called
    the vet.  The vet examined her and told me not to worry about
    shoulder she said the problem was in the hoof, the vet took
    at least 12 xrays of my horses hoof.  The xrays did not
    show anything wrong.  The vet said try soaking the hoof
    again.  I'm getting to be an expert foot soaker.
    
    The horse is still favoring the hoof.  The man that owns the
    stable and the farrie said that they have never seen a bruise 
    last this long.  The farrier put 3/8th inch pads on her feet
    yesterday and there seems to be no improvement.  I'm hoping
    that she may show some improvement today.  
    
    Have any of you had a horse with a bruise that showed any of
    these symptoms?  If she is not better by wednesday I'm going
    to have the vet come back out and xray her shoulder.
    
    Thanks for the help
    
    Mary Ann

    
	When Cody was a two year old, he had a couple of stone bruises
    	and he also limped badly.  I am sorry to say - but it took a
    	good three months before he was sound to ride, but I waited
    	another month just to be sure and I was only putting the saddle
    	on and just sitting etc... very minor things.
    
    	He bruised badly again the next year (I found out that when
    	the ground froze he got bruised!).  Terrific feet huh?
    
    	Well, after that... just for chuckles I put him on Sourse and
    	His feet have been sound and healthy since and winter doesn't
    	have any effect on his hoofies.  He has been on it for 5 years.  
    
    	What I am trying to say is - That if indeed it is a bruise
    	it could take time to heal.                                    
    
    	Oh, pads had no effect on Cody's feet either...  he still limped.
    
    	Susan
    

    What is Sources?  Is it a food supplement?
    
    I was told to exercise my mare at the walk and some short trots,
    do you think that it woould be better to just let her rest.
    When I exercise I never ride more then 30 min.
    
    Mary Ann

    Mary Ann, as I understand it, X raying a shoulder is not easily
    done. Very vet clinics have equipment to Xray shoulders. However,
    if it is a question of accurately diagnosing the lameness, the vet
    can do a progressive nerve block of the foot, leg, etc to locate
    the lameness. The vet first blocks the hoof. If the lameness goes
    away then the cause is in the hoof. If not, the block is moved up
    the leg until the lameness is located. I once had a TB mare with
    a very slight limp that did not vet out. We use the nerve block
    method to finally find that the lameness was in the shoulder. In
    our case it did not get better. It would return from time to time.
    Needless to say the hunter mare wound up as a broodmare!
    
    I read somewhere that applying iodine to the sole of the feet has
    a tendency to harden the soles (don't put it on the frog!) and thus
    helps relieve stone bruising. Good luck with your mare.
    
    Bob Koller
    

    I have an old grade gelding (about 25ish now) that has tender soles.
    I use Source on him to maintain weight, but it has had little effect
    on his feet.  He is prone to bruises and when he gets one it takes
    a long time to heal.  I keep pads on him when he is ridden (he usually
    is just turned out in a run-in shed) which has prevented him from
    soring but never helped much after he was sore.  The best healer
    for him is "time".

    	HI there again....
    
    	If you want to check it out -  there are some more folks that 
    	have used Source in another note - (138) and they seem to be 
    	happy with it.  You may want to try it for six months or so...
    	You may find it will help your horse.  I noticed results within
    	three months.
    
    	I am very happy with it - I had Cody on a very hard working
    	schedule 8 to 10 miles a day - five/six days a week and in
    	top shape.  The weighs about 12 hundred pounds and is 15.3.
    	He was only on 4 1/2 quarts of trotter/charger a day.
    
    	The longest ride we have done this year was a 220 miler and
    	I got about three hundred miles on the shoes that he now has
    	on and I do not use pads or anyother protective shoeing.  (I
    	have been very lucky.)  He now has good, sound feet and holds
    	shoes super!  
    
    	I do not give him anything else other than wheatgerm oil and
    	I worm every 10 weeks (my nags have their own corrals).
    
    	So all in all... I think that Source is good - you can cut 	
    	back the amount (after awhile) of feed, they seem to heal
    	faster, their coats glow, and in some - they are quieter
    	animals.
    
    	Susan

    
    Hi
    
    My baby is all better, what a relief.  I followed the vets advice
    and had pads put on her front feet.  It took about 2 weeks or so
    after she had the pads for the pain to completly stop.
    
    The two month vacation from work must have given her a new
    look on life because she is working better now then she did
    prior to the accident.

    THANKS FOR THE INFO ON REDUCINE - THE TACK SHOP SUGGESTED I USE
    IT ON MY FILLY'S ABSCESSED FOOT !!!  IT HELPED IMMEDIATELY!!  
    WE JUST PACKED IT IN WITH COTTON AND WRAPPED HER HOOF - AFTER AN
    EPSON SALT SOAK!!
    LINDA
    

    There is a product called Kopertox.  It was given to me by the vet
    and works pretty well.  One hoof was particularly bad and it didn't
    work.  The black smith treated that with a liquid heat solution
    so it would blister and then cut it away.

    I know exactly what you mean!!!  I have a Saddlebred with hoof
    problems.  The only advice I can give you is, if you're not already
    doing so, to put silicon in between the pad and the hoof.  My horse
    has this and it seems to work well.  Also, I know it's hard, but
    I wouldn't ride for at least two weeks because a small problem can
    get a lot worse with even a small amount of work.  
    
    Julie

    I hope this isn't a repeat but with so many notes it's hard to tell.
    I have a QH filly just comming 3. She has pretty low feet, the bottoms
    are practically flat. I read in a magazine that putting iodine on
    the sole of the foot will make it tougher and keep her feet in good
    shape. I mentioned this to one of the women at the stable and she
    says putting iodine on the coronet makes the foot grow faster but
    she had never heard of putting on the sole. Anybody know what's
    what on this? Does this mean my baby has flat feet? that's how the
    article refered to the problem they wanted to fix. When I say her
    feet are flat I mean her frog is not much lower than the sole of
    her feet. The article did not explain what they meant by flat. Liesl

    You didn't mention if your filly was shod or barefoot, but I'll
    assume that she is barefoot.  It sounds more like she is wearing
    faster than she is growing feet rather than the actual profile of
    her sole.  I've got some horses with flat soles and some with deep
    concave soles, but I don't have problems with either because of
    the shape (unless I'm following one of them at a run on a snowy
    trail where the concave foot throws some pretty mean snowballs).
    For my horses who have soft feet and are not shod I use a product
    called HOOFMAKER.  It goes on the coronet and does essentially what
    Iodine on the coronet does.  That is increase circulation for more
    hoof growth.  I've had one case where I had to shoe a horse because
    she wore faster than she grew, but it was an exception.  Diet also
    has lots to do with hoof growth as does the surface the animals
    are on and the use they get.  I would get the advice of a competent
    farrier about what your specific problem is.
    
    Bob
    

    I have just asked the farrier to remove her shoes (which we think
    are her first pair) due to some bad experience on the snow the
    last couple of weekends. I have just started giving her SOURCE.
    Right now the only ground I cover has snow on it or is in soft dirt
    in an indoor arena. I should add that she does not have any problems
    with her feet. During the vet check he commented on them being low
    but she did not exhibit any reaction when he used the hoof tool
    (or whatever the device is called) to check her feet. They look
    better now than when I first got her about a month ago. I was just
    wanting to help her out if I could. Does HOOFMAKER or iodine cause
    pain to the horse? Liesl
    
    

    I recall reading in one of the horse magazines that iodine is the
    thing to use to harden the soles of the feet. However, that same
    article cautioned against using iodine on the frogs as hardening
    of the frog is not desireable. I would think that applying iodine
    to the coronary band would be NO-NO unless for some reason it is
    deemed desireable to harden the coronary band.
    

    Source is a great supplement to give and I've been using it for
    various reasons for several years.  I doesn't sound like your mare
    is wearing her feet down, but maybe the hoof doesn't grow very fast
    either.  I've had that problem a couple of times and done a couple
    of things at the same time for it.  For feed supplement, I add a
    small tomato paste size can of soy meal at each feeding.  This not
    only adds protien for a shiny coat but it strengthens the hoof wall.
    We use the Hoofmaker on the coronet band as a topical ointment and
    coat the rest of the hoof wall with hoof dressing, including the
    sole and frog.  You want to have a very flexible frog since this
    is a miniture pump used to help push the blood back up to the heart.
    When it doesn't pump well you get stocked up legs as when a horse
    stands in a stall with no activity.  The Hoofmaker by the way does
    not hurt the animal at all.  Moderate exercise on a nonwearing surface
    should help since it also gets the frog to pump more blood through
    the feet.  You didn't say what kind of problem you had in the snow
    with shoes, but you could always use a shoe with borium calks (sharp
    shods) to reduce any slipping.  I have an old gelding (my first
    horse) that has very tender soles from a light case of founder early
    in his life.  I keep him shod in front with borium and snow popper
    pads and he does just fine.  Up here in the Northeast that is standard
    equipment for winter use.
    
    Bob
    

    The application of iodine to the coronary band should increase the
    growth rate of the foot. The same result can be accomplished with
    any mild irritant such as turpentine. Using a stiff brush (tooth
    brush) as an applicator also helps. 
    
    Some of the old timers made their own hoof conditioner using crank
    case oil, terpentine or iodine, and pine tar. Crank case oil can't
    be used any longer unless you can find non-detergent oil.
    
    A low profile sole should not bother your horse unless its a dropped
    sole. It is important, however, that the farrier cut away the sole so that
    the horn and wall, not the sole, supports the shoe. Pine tar or
    hoof-flex applied to the frog and bulbs might do your horse more
    good than iodine on the sole.
      

    Bleach (the kind you use for your clothes) also works VERY well.
    
    I usually put a cotton swab on either side of the frog then saturate
    it for a few minutes.
    
    Mary Jo Hoepner (new DEC person)
    Colorado Springs

    
    I've used reducine with good results. My thoroughbred came to me
    with  thrush in both front feet. He's feet were a mess in general.
    I soaked his feet (one foot per bucket - we called him two bucket
    bill) with epsom salts and warm water, then applied bleach. After
    we got the trush at little more under control we used Hoof maker
    everyday (my nails are better too!) and tuff-n-up once a week. Needed
    the Reducine in the winter when the hood stopped growing all together.
    I'm glad the days of soaking are over!
    
    Nancy
    

    My vote goes for Kopertox.  I've only run into this problem once,
    but one application and it was gone.
    
    Terry
    Colorado Springs

    With the wet muddy weather upon us now, is there expected problems
    with hoofs?                                     
    
    We have an extreme amount of mud in our pasture from the spring
    meltdown. With the boys standing around in it all day, I have a
    fealing it may cause problems soon.
    
    Our Thoroughbred shows signs of crack lines on a front hoof, starting
    from the top almost running to the shoe. Is this lack of moister
    or to much? Should I dress it or dry it???
               
    Our other guy has a case of thrush under a rear shoe. I didn't know
    it was there untill it appeared where the shoe nails came through the
    surface.
    
    He is being treated daily with Kopertox untill it's gone.
    
    Their feet are picked daily but I feel if there standing in mud
    all day, what good will it do to pick their feet??? The minute I
    pick, they are ..........well you know what I mean!
    What should one do? I want the boys in the best of health,
    particularly their feet. I want to do a lot of riding this summer
    and the last thing I want is two unuseable horse (hayburners).     
                             
    

    Dave,
    
    You might want to have a talk with your blacksmith next time he
    is out (or give him a call) about the crack in the TB's hoof -
    cracks that involve the coronet band are not usually too good - 
    but without seeing it, it's hard to offer advice, so see what your
    blacksmith suggests.  He may want you to stimulate new growth by
    using Reducine a couple of times a week?
    
    Re: the mud - keep an eye out for thrush and treat the hooves before
    it gets too bad.  Are your horses inside at night, or do they stay
    out all day?  Usually the mud supplies moisture to the hooves and
    is not as bad as the extremely dry ground in the summer (which really
    dries the feet out) - but again, next time your farrier visits,
    let him tell you what he thinks of the condition of your horse's
    hooves.  You'll want to keep an eye out for 'scratches' which horses
    sometimes get on the heels of their hooves from too much moisture
    - discuss the prevention and treatment of this with your farrier
    or vet.
    

    Dave,
    
    I agree, talk with your blacksmith.  Cracks that run that way can
    be really bad, and wide enough can be screwed with a plate to keep
    the pressure constant because the hoof expands with each step to
    cushin the hores's weight until new growth comes down that is not
    cracked.
    
    As for the mud problem.  Mud is a drying and drawing agent.  As
    with poultices, ladies face masks etc., moisture or swelling/heat
    is removed (notice your hands next time your working with wet soil
    in the garden, they are anything but moister!) Hoof dressing might
    help some, but remember that like our fingernails, the hoof is covered
    with a hard covering called the peripole (sp?) that helps prevent
    the transport of excess moisture in and out of the hoof.  However,
    with the hooves being in such a constant state of this drawing/drying
    environment the dressing might be the only defense.  Don't hesitate
    to do battle with the elements as soon as possible because "No Hoof
    - No Horse"!  (I would suggest using a hoof dressing made of an
    animal grease such as lanolin wich you should be able to get at
    a drug store.  Mixed with regular motor oil this makes an excellent
    dressing that will keep them hoofies happy.  The traditional dressings
    are not animal based, but are pinetars, themselves a drying agent.
    I use the lanolin mixture on my barefoot arab who is also got a
    bit of a mud problem (5 acres of pasture and all they want to do
    is hang around by the gate, or should I say the swamp!) and his
    feet are nice and hard and crack and chip free.
    
    regards,
    stephanie
    

    Several times in several places in this Notesfile the use of Motor
    Oil has been recommended as a hoof dressing. While this in one of
    the "Old Horseman's" remedies, so it can't have had too much of
    a negative effect, Motor Oil contains a number of not very desirable
    constituents and is not recommended as a hoof dressing. Put it in
    you truck engine, not on your horse.

    re;14..
    
    i agree with you 100%..
    
    the old timers used bacon grease...
    motor oil... i would stay away from it because of the detergents.
    		
    		wendy.
    

    Thanx for the input. Our farrier is coming down today to shoe our
    Thoroughbred and I'll show him the crack. It's so thin you wouldn't
    no it was there unless you get 3" away so, who knows how long it
    has been there. Could have been 12 to 14 weeks now. 
    Our farrier came to the barn in MID FEB to shoe both guys. He said due
    to insufficient hoof growth on the Thorouhbred that we should call
    him in 2-4 weeks (then maybe there will be enough toe to trim).
    This brought us to 14 weeks.
    
    Based on the replies on various suppliments, we started using Source
    hoping for improved hoof condition. In addition to the Source, we
    are exercising the thoroughbred for 2 hours a day, both riding and
    lunging.
    
    Also I have the conditioner called HOOFMAKER! Has anyone tried or
    use this? I haven't used it yet as recommended by our farrier.
    
    With the muddy ground, would this help to apply daily after cleaning???
    
     

    Hoofmaker is one of the better commercial hoof dressings I've seen
    lately.  I've used it and like it better than the greasy Hooflex.
    As to whether or not to use it, that depends on your horse's hooves
    - if they appear to be really dry you may want to apply some to
    the coronet band and the underside of the hoof, but if the hoof
    seems normal/wet from the mud, then it's probably not worth applying
    it.  Another thing that will stimulate hoof growth is rubbing Reducine
    into the coronet band a couple of times a week - talk to your
    blacksmith about this.
    
    You mentioned that you are exercising the TB 2 hrs a day - how long
    are you lunging him for?

    
    Just a side comment on using motor oil on horses hooves ...
    
    I was told that it was okay to use oil that was drained from the
    crank case. This oil has been in the engine for 3000 some odd miles
    and has been sufficiently broken down that the detergents would no
    longer be a problem.
    
    Needless to say, I used to use re-cycled motor oil without any
    problems.  I got worried about the potential problems and stopped.
    If I were to start again I'd go with an animal based grease.
    
    Dani
        

    Stop the press! It's not motor oil, I ment to say MINERAL OIL! Don't
    ask how I got Motor out of mineral.  The ratio is one part lanolin
    to 10 parts mineral oil.  The farrier likes to put 1/2 part DMSO
    into this mixture because he believes it helps get this into the
    hoof.  However, this is optional.  This mixture works extremely
    well and if used every other day or so keeps feet nice when the
    elements tend towards drying them out.  Baby oil can also be
    substituted in place of the mineral.  Sorry for any confusion this
    might have caused.
    
    stephanie_who_sometimes_wonders_if_she_remembers_where_her_brain_is
    

    re:17 The thoroughbred is being lunged for an hour a day if not
    saddled.  10 minutes walk, 20 trot, reverse direction, few minutes
    walk, 20 trot and 10 minute walk to end.
    
    If he is to be ridden, he is lunged for 20 minutes prior to riding,
    then ridden for an hour average.
    
    Our farrier came Monday and the thoroughbred is looking better!
    More growth than previous times he was shod.
    As far as the split goes, or sand crack, he recommended daily removel 
    of any mud/dirt from the hoof wall (prevent drying)and apply hoofmaker
    a few times a week, but don't get carried away. Watch for signs of
    thrush caused by the wet/mud and continue with the Source and regular
    exercise.
    
    Any recommendations as far as exercise (lunging & riding) and diet
    would be appreciated!

    Dave,
    
    You mentioned that if your TB is not being ridden, then you lunge
    him for an hour - although you are just walking and trotting him,
    you might want to find other means of working him - that is a long
    time for a horse to be on a lunge line.  Lunging is hard on a horse,
    (and also boring for that amount of time).  If you have that much
    time to lunge him, why not get on him and take him out on a trail
    ride where he can relax his mind, get used to different sights,
    travel over varied terrain, etc.?  
    
    Even if you cut down the lunging time, I wouldn't plan to lunge
    him everyday of the week, 3 - 4 times a week is a better guideline.

    Re: hoof care - if you are using feed supplements and a topical
    hoof preparation, stick with them long enough to see if these products
    are working for you, ie. 3 months.  Don't discard them in a couple
    of weeks if you don't see immediate results.  I've had good luck
    with Source and Hoofmaker, but there are many products on the market
    that have been successful for other people.  Maybe some noters will
    list them here for you.

    	I agree with .22  another variation to lunging,is ground driving
    which would at least be a change of pace,and doesn't have to be
    in a circle. A short trail ride would be more fun for both of
    you,however.
    
    	George
    

    Hello Fellow Equine Noters,
    I am new to this "horsey" business and really appreciate all the
    info I've found here.  But like they say - The more you learn the
    more questions you end up with!  I welcome advice from each and
    every of you on the following questions:
    
    Hoof Testers??? What is it, how are they used, should I buy one
    to keep at the barn?
    
    Many of you have mentioned how much you like your farriers -
    Names, phone #, etc please.
    
    Any good books on Hooves/feet?
    
    How can I tell if my critters will require corrective shoeing?
    (I have 2 horses- a Registered Morgan & a QH previously used as
    a "range pony" in Colorado).
    
    They have been barefoot for at least the last year, were trimmed
    back in late Feb.  The feet looked good them but now I'm noticing
    chips and peels (on the Morgan) and a crack starting from the bottom
    of the hoof on the QH.  Does this mean trouble?
    
    They too enjoy standing in the "swamp" even though they have lots
    of dry pasture.  So how can I tell if they are to dry or to moist?
    
    Thanks in Advance!
    Cheryl_lots_to_learn_and_loving_every_minute_of_it_!
    

    On the advice of my farrier I use a sugadine mixture (betadine mixed
    with enough sugar to make it thick enough to stick).  I have had
    better luck with this than anything.  It doesn't tend to dry out
    the hoof as most remedies do, and any stains are much easier to
    wash out than "the green stuff". You don't have to worry about it
    "burning" the hair or skin either.  I use it weekly as a preventative.
    I would recommend daily if you are treating a current problem.....

    			-< The best stuff >-
    
    For thrush that keeps hanging on there is a product called "One-Shot
    Thrush Cure".  My horse gets thrush in the wet seasons that sticks
    around no matter what I've tried.  I have used all of the previously
    mentioned products with incomplete results.  My tack shop recommended
    a product called "One-Shot Thrush Cure".  It has gentian violet
    in it which is a bit different than most of the other products.
    It has always worked on the first try for me, but if it needs
    reapplication you must wait at least 10 days because it will dry
    the hoof ifused too often. For daily care i use Hoof-Maker on the
    coronary band and heels and tuff-n-up around the nail holes once
    a week. 
    
    Lisa
    

    Lisa,
    
    What is "Tuff-N-Up" ?  What is it supposed to be "toughening up"?
    Where do you buy it and how much does it usually cost?
    
    Cheryl
    

    
    Cheryl,
    
    Tuff-N-Up is a ketone based application that was recommended to
    me by Classic Saddlery in Sudbury.  Since we lived in the Boston
    area, we moved to Arizona and now live in Ohio and farriers in both
    states have also recommended it.  I use it to lock in moisture in
    the hoof wall before and after shoeing. It seems to work well even
    in the extreme dryness of the desert.  I'm not sure of the price
    but I would say under $10.00.
    
    Lisa

    Do you think it would be OK for horses that have been bare foot
    for a year?  And will be left bare foot for the winter.  Seems to
    me (although I'm just a "rookie") that winter would be when they
    could use that sort of protection.  My farrier said there feet are
    healthy but this IS the first winter I (or should I say we) will
    be going through together.  ...An ounce of protection is worth...
    

    
    This is the first winter that my horse be unshod too.  He hasn't
    worn shoes since April. We have a new born baby so "Ashton" hasn't
    done much work that requires shoes.  His feet are healthy; I have
    them trimmed about every six weeks and everyone I ask has assured
    me that he won't have cold toes this winter. I don't think he'll
    be cold at all... he looks like a tennis ball, round and fuzzy!
    
    Lisa

    Hi Michelle,
    
    Our group of horses had thrush this year, and we treated it with
    formaldihyde.  It only took 2 treatments and it was all cleared
    up.  You can buy stuff at the store, I think its Coppertox which
    will do the same thing but take a little longer.  This would 
    probably be your best bet as it isn't easy to get a hold of
    formaldihyde.  Good luck.

    re: 19
    
    To cure thrush, you need to kill the bacteria plus provide a
    reasonably dry environment so that it can't grow again.  This
    can be difficult to do under full pads.  Some of the thrush
    preparations can be applied under a pad, but the formaldhyde
    solutions tend to be quite strong and can cause excessive
    irritation and drying (especially if you get it on the horses
    skin). For a real bad thrush problem, I use the formaldhyde
    solution for 3 days to kill the thrush and then icthamol (that
    black tarry stuff) for a few days to keep the hoof from brewing
    a whole new crop of thrush.  Obviously, you can't do this with
    full pads, so you might either try a rim pad or using copper sulfate
    (Kopertox) and a good packing material under the pad. I always treat
    all four feet whenever I find obvious thrush in one.
    
  
    -maureen
    
   
    

    I found that VitaHoof is another good dressing to use on dry or
    brittle hooves.  My Blacksmith pulled my critter's shoes in november
    and by the next shoeing was very impressed with the condition of 
    the hooves.  I had picked up the VitaHoof 'cause I didn't care for
    the way the HoofMaker works.  I have been pretty pleased with the 
    results I've had.  I only use it once or twice a week.  Our ground
    here in New England gets hard and dry in the winter.  I'll have to 
    see how the hooves hold up in the summer.        **Marti**
    

    .26 
    
    Could you explain what you mean by... the way Hoofmaker works.
    As compared to Vitahoof?
     
    I've always used and been quite pleased with Hoofmaker.  Even on
    my own fingernails! ;-)                        
    
    Thanks