Conference noted::equitation

  Yea I like Quarter Horses too!!
  
  We currently have 2 geldings that we raised at our small farm
  in Exeter, NH. 1 is 5 years old and the other is 3. The 3 year
  old is by Silver Deller. He's pretty good and we expect to get
  him fully trained for my daughter to ride this summer. Probably
  pleasure and some trail. Both of these are used primarily by
  my 2 daughters now. My oldest (14) is planning to become a vet
  and is working (without pay) for our vet on weekends. It's really
  great for her and keeps us close to the action.
  
  We've been the route with breeding and foalings and trucking
  and shows etc. We are not currently active in the horse world
  but I'm a past memeber of the NHQHA board of directors and keep
  a watch on whats happening. (We can't resist going to a few shows
  each year even if it's just to watch)
  
  I'm glad to see this file and hope I can add some info where
  appropriate.
  
  /tb/
  (ps..Wendy if you would use upper and lower case it would be much
  easier to read your notes.)

    It's so nice to see more quarter horse people!  I have two 
    Reg. Geldings for Sale. I'm also looking to buy another
    Quarter horse. Preferably Mare under 8 years old. I belong to
    the Mass Quarter Horse Assoc.  Hopefully getting to some shows
    this year.  Keep them Quarters comin'!
    
    Marianne

    Hi - we have 5 Quarters in Parker, Colorado.  I'm just learning
    to ride (my wife is the expert...), but I'm getting real interested
    in Jumping and Trail Riding.  We have a 22 Yr old Mare, who has
    foaled a 3-yr old, 2-yr old, and a brand new stud foal this year.
     We also have a gray mare (6-yr old) who has done well in Western
    Pleasure.  If anyone is visiting Colorado (Denver or Colo. Springs
    facility) and wants to ride, give me a call!
    John Case, DTN 553-3214.

    Hi Everyone!
    
    I am too from Colorado, Colorado Springs to be exact, and have a
    Quarter/TB gelding 7 yrs old.  We show the hunter/jumper circuit
    here in Colorado.  In fact my horse is for sale, if anyone is
    interested.  He's shown some Quarter horse classes, yet primarily
    "
    "A" circuit here in Colorado.  He likes to jump and is a kind horse.
    A good strong beginner/intermediate horse.  Please let me know over
    this "Equitation Notes" network.  
    
    I just found this last week and have been wading through the notes,
    what a great idea.  I will definitely be a regular on this network.
    
    Bye for now,
    
    Dawn Rinde - DTN 522-2901
    

    Hi gang!
    
    	Like Dawn, we also show a Quarter Horese in Hunter/Jumper in
    the A and B shows in the New Jersey, Penn. New York area. About
    a year ago, we started looking for a good sized critter for my daughter
    to ride. She was 14, and had outgrown her Large Pony Hunter. We
    were looking to get something to use in Junior Hunter or possibly
    Junior Jumper. Of course TB was all we thought of at the time. As
    we eliminated critter after critter for one reason or another, we
    finally came across a 6 year old gelding who didn't even know how
    to steer. We were apprehensive at the time, especially since he
    is Quarter Horse (AQHA registered). We finally gave him a try, and
    as skinny as a rail, and totally unfit, he jumped over 4' the first
    night we rode him. We are now doing Schooling Jumper, and anticipate
    starting Junior Hunter/Jumper in December. Maginoir's disposition
    is great, and he is a fun horse to have around. Compared to some
    of the Thorobreds and other warmbloods we have seen, we feel very
    lucky to have been selected by a Quarter Horse.
    
    	We have 4 ponies, a Shetland, two Welsh, and a Connemara at
    home now, and the big (17h) black jumper. I certainly would consider
    another QH in the future instead of a "name brand" show circuit
    horse.
    
    	I enjoy this notes file, as do my daughter and son (now 8 and
    starting Short Stirrup classes), and hope to meet some of the
    participants at shows or on trips in the future.
    
    
    					Ben
    

And I have a few questions -

What are ROM points?  How are they earned?  

In an ad for Quarter Horses for sale:

What are the numbers after a horses sire or dam's name (IE: see the ad for
Glory B farm in the June '87 issue of the Pedler - and I don't think they're the
registration number (doesn't the QH registry have "P_" prefix on registration?))

Another Pedler article:
Has anyone heard of the exportation of Quarter Horses to Germany?  I hear 
they are using them to improve certain breeds (sounds like the europeans are 
in hot pursuit of the "American Warm-bloods" :^) 

    
    ROM = Register of Merit
    
    Register of merit points are accumulated at shows which are recognized
    by the registration organization.  A county fair may hold some AQHA
    ROM classes, but usually the ROM classes are found at the breed show. 
    
    My understanding is that the class must be judged by a certified AQHA 
    judge, with some exceptions.  For example, I own a Pinto, if I had
    to get my hunter over fences points all at Pinto breed shows I would
    *never* make it before the horse died (not enough Pintos jump and
    not enough all Pinto shows offer the class), so I can get points
    at open shows.  This requires forms to be filled out, signed by
    the show secretary and mailed to the national office.  There are very 
    few categories where this is the case.  I also don't know if AQHA
    has any classes in this category.
                                     
    The usual way to get the ROM points are at the shows recognised by
    that registry.
    
    About the P on the registration papers.  In my horse's case (Pinto),
    it stands for PREMIUM as opposed to BREEDING STOCK, or Miniature
    Horse, or Pony.  As far as I can tell premium status is given to
    mares, geldings and stallions in which there is no question of Pinto
    lineage (where the background is known and there is no question of
    proper coloring). Some Pintos with unknown background are registered
    but I don't believe their numbers have a "P" in them.  
    
    As far as AQHA goes... it could be a "P" for permanent.  I don't
    know enough about AQHA to say for sure.
    
    Hope this helps and doesn't confuse! Pinto and AQHA are different
    registries but I'm pretty sure there are parallels that can be made.
    
    Dani
                                                   

ROM does mean Register of Merit.  It's an award the AQHA 
(a certificate) gives to the horse (or horse/rider combination
if it's a Youth or Amateur ROM).  There are 3 kinds of ROMS:
Open, Youth and Amateur.

To recieve an ROM you must get a certain number of AQHA points. 
The last time I looked, Open ROM was 10 points and Youth and 
Amateur ROM's were 15 points.  These points can only be earned
at an Approved AQHA show.  There are no special ROM classes at 
these shows, all approved AQHA classes count toward points for
the appropriate ROM (ie. Youth classes for Youth ROM, Amateur
classes for Amateur ROM, and Open classes for the Open ROM.
The Open classes are still only for Registered Quarter Horses
at AQHA shows, but don't have any exibitor age or status 
restrictions.)  To be able to advertise your horse as having 
an ROM in a certain event or events (ie. Western Pleasure,
Halter, Working Hunter etc.) you must have earned at least 5
points in that event.

The question of the P with a registation number.  It does mean
Permanent as opposed to Appendix.  You usually don't see the
P as part of the number any more, it's just assumed.  Appendix
horses are those that have a TB and a Quarter Horse for parents.
They must earn a certain number of points before they can 
advance to the Permanent Registry.

I hope this helps.  

Sherry Butler - Dtn 339-4316 (Maryland)

    I've noticed in my AQHA rule book that not all classes,even at 
    AQHA shows, give points. The one I noticed in particular was
    hunter/hack which does not count toward points. I'm not really sure
    why other than it's an entry level class. I thought that looked
    like the size of fence Taffy and I might be up to, too bad. Though
    here in Colorado I hear the AQHA shows have such tough competition
    it's better to just watch. liesl
    

    I'm not sure what part of the rule book your reading, but ALL classes
    give points (if there are enough entries, of course).  Hunter Hack
    is an approved class and points are awarded!  
    
    I just moved from Colorado and have shown at the AQHA shows there
    (mostly in Amateur classes - Western and English Pleasure and
    Equitation).  The competition isn't REALLY tough.  The East and West 
    coasts are alot tougher (I live in Maryland now).  Most of the AQHA
    shows I went to in Colorado didn't have many Hunter Hack entries
    - usually not enough to make it a point class.
    
    Good Luck !!
    
    Sherry Butler

    I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY ACTIVITY IN THE QH FILE IS SOME TIME.  SO I
    WILL WRITE SOMETHING AND SEE IF WE GET ANY QH INFORMATION STARTED.
    I AM GOPING TO THE MQHA BANQUET THIS YEAR IN STURBRIDGE.  I HAVE
    NOT BEEN TO A MQHA BANQUET IN A FEW YEARS.  I USE TO RUN THEM FOR
    MQHA, WE HELD THEM IN MAYNARD AT THE ELKS HALL IN THE EARLY 80'S.
    I HAVE NOPT BEEN TO ANY SHOWS EXCEPT TO WATCH THE PAST FOUR YEARS
    SINCE I DO NOT HAVE A HORSE ANYMORE.  I SOLD MY AQHA MARE LAST YEAR
    BECAUSE I DO NOT HAVE THE TIME.  ISTILL RIDE ONCE IN AWHILE A  I
    AM A PART TIME FARRIER.  MAYBE I WILL SEE YOU AT THE BANQUET.

    Hi, I live in Mass. I have a 3 year old Reg. Morgan. He is still
    in the training stage and I am have two small problems. I am training
    him Western and having problems with reining him. He reins fine
    in English but not in Western. The other problem is that he drops
    his right shoulder at the same corner each time I ride around the
    ring counter clock wise. If anyone out there has some good tips
    I will be greatful to hear all.
    
    Denise

    
    Does anyone know whether in showing quarterhorses, it is better
    to show with or without a bucking strap? Pros/cons for or against?
    
    Any hints on what type of bits are acceptable? I read the rule book,
    and really didn't get much of an idea.  Has anyone used a Monte
    Forman bit or a cutting bit and are either of these acceptable?
    
    Thanks
    Marianne
    

    re:
    my opinion i think it looks nicer without the back cinch.
    double rigging is out so to speak on perforance horses.
    it really depends out the turnout look you want to achieve,
    lately the double skirted saddles and light coloered saddles are
    making a comeback.so its what you like i guess.
    
    if you are goin to rein or barrel racing even then its questionable.
    roping however is a must, or i should stay, everyone uses them.
    
    bits, monte foreman bit is fine , rule of thumb i guess anything
    that resembles a curb bit is fine.
    i used to use an arab bit on my mare some years back.
    people might use a certain style bit and yours might be different,
    they might think its not the in* thing to do but what do you care
    right?  anyway it is a gray area... anyone else go any imputs.
    
    		wendy.
    
    

    The lady that owns the barn where I board takes her QH mare on the
    "A" circuit and the saddle that she uses does not have a back cinch.
     She says that back girths are not *in* now.  The look that the
    top show people are going for is one that is as uncluttered as
    possible.  This means that the back cinch is gone and in many cases
    the hole that is in the skirt is covered with a silver plate.  Bridles
    have less silver on them and are in the thinner 1/2 to 3/4 inch
    width.  Bits are plain with the heavy silver conchos on the checks
    being very out of date.  Junior Western pleasure horses are shown
    with either a bosal or a standard ring snaffle (no full cheecks)such 
    as you would ride an English hunter hack with.  The other pleasure
    and performance classes can use any bit that your horse is comfortable
    with and that are not too severe.  Most of the people that I see
    showing are using tom thumb snaffles or very low port curbs with
    shanks that are from 5-7 inches in length.  The cheeks are generally
    plain.  
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Pat
      

    
    Thanks for the replies.  I will check, but probably take the back
    cinch off.  My bridle is fairly plain, just a little bit of silver.
    My bits in english are a reg. eggbutt snaffle and a full cheek
    snaffle.  I will try a Monte Forman bit first for western.
    
    -Marianne-
    

    
    re:mare
    
    	i think for four and under they can ride in a bosal or
    a bit, i dont know for sure but i think the snaffles are only
    used for the 2yr snaffle futuries.
    
    or course snaffle mouthpiece can always be used, but the cheek
    piece has be in a form of a curb.
    
    and of course... i just have to say this....
    i hate tom thumbs.  i think they pinch the mouth and i hate they
    way the horse responds to one..
    .....there i said it... no flames please.. BYE!
    
    marianne if you have one..try a sweetwater mouth piece,
    if not you can borrow mine.  some horses do really well on one,
    mine doesnt though.
    
    while we are talking about bits here, i would like to say the
    if you want a quiet face , cut down on the snaps and go back to
    just leather on the reins. and if you are training, or re-training
    and want to use a snaffle, go out a buy yourslef a hinged snaffle.
    they are hard to find, especially the cheek piece that you want,
    and they are expensive (if i rem. correctly) they are worth it.
    dont beleive me....
    go home get out your grazing bit snaffle or tom thumb.
    pick it up, every thing collapes, and cheek piece swings this way
    and that, the snaffle mouth piece it pinches your fingers or it
    twists.the snaffle breaks at the mouth piece in all directions.
    go look at a hinged snaffle, its just that it has a hinge, it only
    breaks front to back. my mare would get fussy time to time,
    til i was talking to a trainer in canada. and he showed me the
    reasoning behind it......you already knew that??
    wished i found out long ago.
    
    		wendy.
    
    
    

    	re. 11,the comment about the back cinch being mandatory in
    roping,,I don't know if it's "mandatory" by the rules,but anyone
    roping without a snug rear cinch risks the chance that a steer
    will pull your saddle up over the withers and cause a serious wreck.
    Obviously,if your nor roping,the rear cinch probably doesn't have
    a serious purpose,although I've seen some saddles that wouldn't
    stay in place on a trail ride,in rough terrain without a snug
    back cinch. I suspect,however, that those saddles were probably
    not well made,or didn't fit properly.
    
    	George
    

    I didnt say mandatory, i said a must. the must meaning the same
    example you gave, about the saddle coming up on the whithers.
    most ropers use them.
    barrel racing is the same, i just feel going around barrels top
    speed i dont need that back cinch, it can throw you off balance
    some times but i feel it breaks the horses concentration, from with
    back cinch coming up and bumping them..
    
    
    speaking of barrel racing.
    does anyone know of a womens barrel racing assoc. chapter.
    i want to start pro barrel racing.i lost my card 5 years ago 
    cause i didnt keep up my earnings.
    i know new york has some but its 8 hours for me to haul out there.
    

    I am proud to announce that I just bought a QH. MARE - 3 years in
    July - needs a lot of training - Her name is Holly - Her color is
    Red Dun - I hear this is a rare color - I also have a 4 year old
    Reg. Morgan gelding...Luckily they get along fine and sence they
    were both alone they enjoy having each others company..I enjoy watching
    them at play - Great runners - Heads and tails held high. I ride western
    and I do not show but I do enjoy going to the shows. Once both horses
    are fully trained I may concider someone else showing the horses.
    If any of you noters know of a Red Dun QH Stallion I would be interested
    in his location. I plan to breed Holly at age 5 and would like to
    follow a Red Dun Stallion's off spring for a few years to see if
    the color will hold.
    
    -D-

    This is a reply to the person who stated their horse will
    go english but not western.  
    
    I learned a great trick from an old horsey friend a few years ago
    when we were training our standardbred.
    
    Cross the reins under the horses neck and try neck reining.  This
    will put pressure against the horses neck but at the same time
    reinforce the direct rein pressure.  I found that after about
    a month he started to catch on.
    
    This quick fix has worked for me but it really should be
    considered a patch for the real problem.  Natural aids more than
    anything should be considered when a horse is not responding.  A
    horse trained to leg aid will respond regardless of the method
    of riding, in most cases.
    
    Good luck
    
    Karen
    

    RE:MQHA SHOW
    THANKS FOR THE INFO.  This is the first time I have viewed the EQUI>
    section.  I had intended on showing my 4yr. AQHAreg. mare for the
    first time,but my trainer had said the show was canceled. This is
    my first QH. but my fourth horse.  I had shown local with my Appy
    for many years.Also I am familar with the Palamino show circuit
    as my friends show a Qh and a GASHA horse which placed on the Honor
    Roll [national]in Gasha for 1987 ,and another has a half Arab mare.
    So I will be looking for info on all these breeds in the future.
    Also paints/pinto as my trainer's barn is full of them!! I now have
    the new mqha show dates and hope to attend.

    
    Hi, 
    
    All QH shows are open to any Quarter horse registered thru AQHA.
    If you want to accumulate points for any year end awards, you must
    be a member of that club.  The mass club only lets a member accumulate
    points for year end awards at the shows I listed earlier.  CT, would
    have their own list of shows that are pointed by their club, etc..
    If you are just interested in showing and not working on points
    you can just show at any of the shows without being a member of
    a specified club.  Hope that helps???
    
    -Marianne-
    

    MARIANNE,
    
    What happen to the Mas run shows?  I heard their were some problems
    not getting the show paper work on time for the spring shows but
    now they decided not to run the fall shows either. Why?  I am not
    a member yet this year so i haven't got any newsletters.
    Did you go to the N.Y. shows in Northhampton?

    Hi Paul, you are correct. The paperwork was accidentally put aside,
    for some unknown reason and didn't get to the AQHA office in time
    to make the May date deadline. We couldn't secure the grounds for
    the alternate date, so the spring show was cancelled. As far as
    the fall show goes, since so much money was lost from this mishap,
    it was decided to put all focus into next years show and go with
    the pointing for the shows already in place for this year, without
    putting any money out for a fall show in case of poor turnout. I
    guess, a risk that the club just didn't want to take.  I didn't
    make it to the Classic, but heard it was nice. I'm planning on the
    Vermont show in June though.  
    
    -M-
    

    DID ANYONE ELSE READ IN THE AQHA JOURNAL SOME OF THE BIG NAMES WHO
    GOT SUSPENDED.  TOMMY MANION IS SUSPENDED FOR A YEAR PLUS FINE $2500.00
    FOR FRAUD WHILE SELLING A HORSE.  TROY GREEN WAS SUSPENDED FOR ABOUT
    SIX MONTHS FOR DRUGGING HORSES AT THE QUARTERMA.  
    I READ THE MONTHLY AND Y-T-D STATS ON TRANFERS AND REGISTRATION.
     ALL STATS POINT TO A DOWN TURN IN AQHA ACTIVITY.  NEW REGISTRATION
    ARE DOWN THIS MONTH 50% FROM THE SAME MONTH LAST YEAR.  TRANSFERS
    ARE DOWN A COUPLE OF THOUSAND FROM LAST YEAR.  THE NUMBER OF SHOW
    ARE DOWN AND ENTRIES ARE DOWN (EXCEPT AMATEUR). 
    I THINK THE HORSE GLUT FINALLY CAUGHT UP TO THE INDUSTRY..  I NOTICE
    SOME OF THE STUDS FEES ARE COMING DOWN AND THE PRICES OF HORSES
    ARE COMING DOWN ALSO.

    hi,
    Is that the May or June issue?  I will look tonite.  Does that mean
    that amatuer owners are going to get a chance at the congress and
    national's or are they just going to transfer ownership and sub.
    a rider on these big names horses. Also as a amateur it makes me
    think twice about big name trainers and setting examples also 
    the domination of the shows.
    
    

    It was in the June issue.  It seems the only part of the Quarter
    Horse industry that is improving or at least staying even is the
    the Amateurs.  Youth are down and have been going down for a while.
    yo are correct in saying the PROS are good examples but some of
    them have been using illegal tactics for a while.  The sad part
    about this is I know some youth who have used drugs etc..

    DID ANYONE GO TO THE AQHA SHOW IN NORTH HAMPTON THIS PAST WEEKEND?
     I DID NOT GET A CHANCE TO GO.  WAS IT A BIG SHOW?  HOW WERE THE
    PLEASURE CLASSES?  ARE THEY STILL SHOWING WITH THEIR HEADS IN THE
    DIRT?  WERE THE HALTER CLASSES FILLING ETC?

    
    no.. really.??. there was a show???. my boyfreind and i had a windsurfing
    party at the cape. so i was not in a situation to go, however i
    could have found an excuse :^)     
    	is there any other aqha shows this year??
    i have been doing palomino for the last three years and lost track
    of things.
    
    	btw: i have my horse registered, and shots and a coggins, what
    else do i need to show, other than an amey card? do i need to have
    a state memebership?and national dues?
    
    		wendy.
    
    

    I AM NOT SURE OF THE EXACT DATES BUT THERE ARE OTHER AQHA SHOWS IN NORTH
    HAMPTON.  I THINK THEY ARE LISTED IN OTHER NOTES.  YOU DO NOT HAVE
    TO BELONG TO ANY STATE ASSOCIATIONS OR AQHA.  BUT IF YOU WANT TO
    ACCUMULATE POINTS FOR YEAR END AWARDS FROM A STATE ASSOC. THEN YOU
    MUST BELONG TO THAT STATE ASSOC..  

    Hi Paul, I got down on Sunday. The show had what seemed to be a
    good turnout. The youth halter classes had up to 25 horses in them.
    The show was primarily geared towards hunters however, not very
    many western classes at all.  I would say most of the horses that
    were there were riding poll level to withers or slightly above.
    No peanut pushers that I saw. The western pleasure horses that I
    saw warming up were the same, no lower.  I was a little disappointed
    in the jumping though. The "hunters" were on the same rein that
    they were riding with on the flat, on the buckle (nice for pleasure?)
    not one horse that I saw made it over the course (2.9) with a nice
    consistent round. The reins were so loose and the riders not using
    their seat enough, the horses were popping, taking rails, switching
    leads inappropriately, changing speed - pretty messy!
    
    I'm looking forward to NewEngland in August at Springfield. That
    should be a great show.
    
    Wendy, Maine is putting on the Firecracker Circuit show the weekend
    of June 25th at Skowhegan. New England at Springfield August 4-7.
    Shayna QH Ranch at Northampton the weekend of August 20th. New
    Hampshire at Falls Creek Farm the weekend of August 27th. Northeast
    Horserama at Skowhegan Sept. 3-4.  I hadn't written an Conn shows
    down, I know there are quite a few.
    
    Marianne
    

    
    thanks mare.
    what is the newengland?? aqha show?
    i you been to the ne horserama??? is it like the quarterama?
    

    Yes Wendy, the New England show is a QH show put on by the NEQHA.
    
    I haven't been to the Horserama, so I cannot say. It's sponsored
    by the Maine QH club I think.
    
    

    WENDY THE NEQHA SHOWS ARE TWO, TWO DAY SHOWS HELD IN AUGUST AT THE
    EASTERN STATES EXPO FAIR GROUNDS.  IN THE PAST THEY HAVE HAD COW
    CLASSES (ROPING, CUTTING, WORKING COW CLASSES), I DO NOT KNOW WHAT
    CLASSES THEY ARE HOLDING THIS YEAR.  IT USUALLY HAS A GOOD TURNOUT
    OF HORSES.  THE GROUNDS ARE A GOOD PLACE TO WATCH A SHOW ALSO. 
    THEY HAVE HAD A VERSATILITY DERBY IN THE PAST AT THIS SHOW AS WELL
    AS REINING FUTURITIES.

    RE/LAST
    WHO DO I CALL AND GET IN TOUCH WITH?
    i was thinking** [thinking] of doing some aqha shows this year.
    thanks for the info, i'm glad to hear they had some stock classes
    (roping etc,)  
    		has anyone watched the barrel classes in aqha or pro
    circuit? anyone know what times they are averaging for regulation
    patterns?
    
    
    re:mare [you will enjoy this one. i ran barrels out in n.y. my
    time was a 16.2 closest horse i think was 18 flat] (karen mcwilliams);^)
                                              
    

    
    Wendy, I think for New England QH the contact person is
    Lea Williams from Voluntown Conn. You could also try Raymond Keddy
    from Northampton Mass.  For New Hampshire QH the contact is Joan
    Hartford 603-742-3161. I can't remember off hand who you could
    speak to about Maine.  You could always try calling Ann Blizniak
    from Northampton, she is the show manager for many of the QH shows.
    
    Marianne
    

    Hi fellow Quarter Horse owners! I ran across a poem on our beloved
    Quarter Horses, that I thought would be of interest to you all.
    <This is being reprinted without permission>
     
    
    What is a Quarter Horse . . .
    
    	He's half a ton of poised and controlled energy, held on an easy
    rein and a hair trigger.
        
    	He's a workin' man who can earn his keep on the range all week--and
    be a handsome dandy at the track on Sunday afternoon.
    
    	He's proud when he stands; looks lazy when he walks--
    
    	But when he runs he can whip the tears from the corner of your
    eyes and plaster your hat brim against the crown.
    
    	He's big in the haunches, supple in the withers, stout in the
    neck and wide across the chest . . . to hold his great heart.
    
    	He's thunder and lightning between your knees and a poem in
    flight across the pasture.
    
    	He's cow-smart and brave--though sometimes a clown--and to the
    man with sky in his eye and mud on his boot, the Quarter Horse is
    a faithful hand . . .
    
    	And a friend.
    
    JOHN D. KEMP
                                                              
    Hope that you all enjoyed this little peom as much as I did.
    
    Lorna
    

    	Thanks Lorna, I own an unregistered Quarter horse. He's 22 now
    and still better than most horses half his age. We've covered a
    lot of miles together,and worked a lot of cattle. He's everything
    your poem says, and one of the best friends and partners I've ever
    had. It breaks my heart to see him get old, and somehow I've got
    a feeling that I'll never find another like him.
    	I enjoyed reading your entry,
    
    		George
    

    George, your welcome, I just couldn't see hoarding something so
    meaningful to myself.
    
    I know how it feels to have a dedicated friend get old, whether
    it be registered or not.  My guy is 33 and is my best guess is mostly
    Quarter Horse.  We've covered a whole lot of ground together, English,
    western, eventing, including dressage, trail riding and just plain
    friendship, in fact I believe he is my BEST friend.
    
    He is now in retirement, I went out and bought a Standardbred mare,
    to keep him company.  This was done years ago, she is blind in one
    eye and he is deaf and not alert as he used to be. However, until
    the day comes where he is suffering, he will always have a place
    in my barn.  People think I'm crazy (including my husband & father)
    to keep him, they say he is worthless, not in my eyes he still
    understands when I go out and sit in the field with him when I need
    someone to talk to.
    
    Well, enough rambling.  Glad that you enjoyed the poem.  Just remember
    your old guy has alot of years left.
    
    Lorna
     

    IS ANYONE GOING TO THE AQHA SHOW IN WEST SPRINGFIELD, MA. THIS WEEKEND?
    I DO NOT HAVE A CLASS LIST SO I WAS WONDERING IF THEIR ARE ANY CATTLE
    CLASSES THIS YEAR, VERSALILITY CLASS, NRHA REININGS.
    

     I have a class list, if you would like a copy I'd be more than
    happy to make one and send it off to you.
    
     As far as I can see they have reining but not cutting.
    
    Let me know if you would like a copy of the class list.
    
    Lorna
    

    YES PLEASE SEND ME A CLASS LIST.  I AM AT AKO1-1/H8  PAUL LE SAGE.
    
    THANKS

    
    Paul are you thinking of going down?  I decided that I"m going to
    this one no matter what. I'm heading down Friday night, not sure
    if I'll stay all the way thru sunday or not, but I'll be there thru
    sat anyway.  If I come back early I want to head up to Deerfield
    on Sunday to see the Appaloosa show.  Lorna, are you still planning
    on going down?
    
    -Marianne-
    

    I MIGHT GO DOWN SATURDAY TO WATCH DEPENDING ON THE CLASSES. IS THE
    APPALOOSA SHOW IS IN DEERFIELD N.H. THIS WEEKEND?

    I RECEIVED MY AQHA JOURNAL YESTERDAY, IT IS THE SMALLEST JOURNAL
    I'VE SEEN IN 15 YEARS.   I READ THE SECRETARY'S SECTION AND I NOTICED
    MOST OF THE SHOW STATS ARE DOWN, TRANFERS ARE DOWN ETC..  

    
    Compare the Stallion indexes from 1986 to now, an even more
    dissapointing change, from 8 pages of stallions, down to one
    page.
    
    Yes the App show in Deerfield is this weekend.
    
    -M-
    

    SOME PEOPLE I SHOE FOR TOLD ME THEY WENT TO A QUARTER HORSE PAINT
    HORSE SALE IN KANSAS OR IOWA.  THEY SAID YOU COULD PICK UP A THREE
    IN PACKAGE FOR LESS MONEY THEN THE STUD FEE FOR ONE OF THE FOALS.

    I WENT TO THE NEQHA SHOW SATURDAY.  I ARRIVED AT 11:00 AM,  THE HALTER
    CLASSES WERE ALL OVER.  IT ONLY TOOK FOUR HOURS TO JUDGE 2 DOZEN
    HALTER CLASSES.  THERE MUST NOT HAVE BEEN ANY HORSES IN THESE CLASSES.
    THE SHOW WAS SO SMALL THEY MOVED THE VERSATILITY DERBY UP TO 4:00
    PM SATURDAY AFTERNOON.  THIS DERBY GOT OVER AT 5:30.  THE REINING
    CLASSES WERE STARTING AT 7:00 PM.  THE JR. WERSTERN PLEASURE CLASS
    HAD ONLY 22 HORSES.  I HAVE BEEN GOING TO THIS SHOW FOR THE LAST
    FIFTEEN YEARS EITHER SHOWING OR WATCHING AND THIS WAS THE SMALLEST
    SHOW I HAVE EVER SEEN.  THE MAIN BARN WAS NOT EVEN FULL.  THIS WAS
    THE FIRST SHOW I WENT THIS YEAR AND I WAS AMAZED HOW DOWN THE CLASSES,
    SHOWS WERE.  ARE ALL SHOWS LIKE THIS NOW?  ARE ALL OTHER BREED SHOWS
    DOWN?

    
    I didn't make it down to the NEQHA show as planned, but did get
    to Deerfield for the App show. You want to talk small......
    6 horses per class at the max on Sunday. I think I saw all of 
    20 horses on the grounds, the barns were all pretty empty. 
    
    

    Time to wake up the QH people again! Any one out there using QH
    for Dressage or Driving? I have been teaching these to my 15 yr
    old mare [Cricket O'Sage] with great success, she is such a willing
    ol girl. Just wondered if anyone else has found them to be this
    versitile. She is my first Quarter horse and I now ask myself why
    I didn't get one years ago.
    
    Sandy
    

    
    Hi Sandy, I don't ride dressage or drive myself, but Driving has
    always been a big part of the AQHA. The AQHA also has just announced
    some new awards, a few being for Dressage.  Also One perk, for the
    highest scoring Quarterhorse of the year in Dressage, they offer a 
    substantial amount of money (sorry can't remember how much...) 
    I think all breeds are great, but Quarterhorses will be particular
    to me forever.
    
    Marianne
    
    
    

    
    
    I just got the Feb. issue of the Quarter Horse Journal and it had
    an article in there on Quarter Horses and Dressage.  It gave all
    the details on the awards program and went on to say how dressage
    movements and training can benifit all forms of riding.  The awards
    were for the highest scoring Quarter Horse shown under its registered
    name at the Prix de St. George leval or above.  The horse had to
    be in the top 15 to win the $2500.00.  
    
    If anyone would like I can bring the magazine in and copy out the
    article and then send it on.  I can be reached via EMAIL  at
    
    GENRAL::LEECH
    
    
    Pat

    Hi,
    
    I have a 6 yr old Appendix QH gelding.  I was primarily showing him as
    a Hunter, but last year I took him to a couple of Dressage shows and he
    did great.  I have been widening my horizons over the past couple of
    years and have been truly enjoying myself and my horse.  I have been
    able to do more because of my horse.  He will do anything you ask and
    always tries.  He seems to enjoy going places and competeing.  The only
    thing that I dislike is that he will have an occasional Temper
    Tantrum!!  Instead of being nervous or high strung, he will just all of
    the sudden start throwing a fit when he decides that what I am telling
    him to do is not what he wants. (like when his friends are out playing
    and his is working)  I have learned to ignore him and just go forward 
    and he will give up.  I intend on continuing his Dressage education 
    and going to some of the local shows and clinics.  I may even
    try some QH shows.  When is the one in Northhampton, MA????  Do they
    have Dressage at any of the local QH shows???  What do they have for
    Hunter classes????  How about Eventing - I have Pace Evented with my
    horse and he really excelled at that.  He was Soooooooooo  bold.  I
    have always been a Horse Show person but now I want to do more of a 
    variety of things.  I have decided that enjoying yourself and being 
    successful is better then winning itself.  Well good luck to all.
      

    Hi Wendy, I hope you do end up going to the Mass Shows at Northampton.
    The dates are May 5, 6 and 7th. Three shows.  The shows are run
    TOTALLY different from any open shows around here. They only have
    one class run at a time, the day tends to drag on a bit if your
    waiting for one specific class. Its fun though, and meeting people
    with the same interest is always exciting. The classlist usually
    offers something for everyone, not like an open show however where there
    is alot from which to choose.   For anyone interested the Mass QH
    club Feb meeting is being held this Sat night at the Quality Inn
    at Westboro. Mtng will start at 7pm. A guest speaker will be present,
    Farrier Myron McLane. We are also looking for interested people
    to help us out at this years Mass Equine Expo being held at Northampton
    April 15th and 16th. Give me a call if your interested.
    
    Marianne
    247-2429
    

    .64
    My cart is a two wheeler metal pony cart with 18 inches added to
    make it horse size shafts. The wheels were taken off a gardenway
    garden cart to replace the 20 inch bicycle wheels that came with
    it. It doesn't look as bad as it sounds. The harness is a nylon
    one from Chicks. This combo put me on the road for about $250.00,
    when I am sure driving is what I want to pursue I will invest in
    a real harness and 4 wheel buggy. That is what my non-horse riding
    husband would like.
    Sandy
    

    I went to the QH clinic this past weekend at Wild Aire Farm in
    Southbridge.  I wanted to see what was expected in the QH classes
    for English or Hunter style riding.  I had heard that things had
    changed and that the judges were not encouraging the "peanut pusher"
    way of going.  Well as far as I could see it is still that way.
    The clinician was Patty Boxell.  She ran the clinic like a judged
    show.  She explained what she was looking for and tried to teach
    the riders how to acheive the results.  The horses jogged and dragged
    there hind feet with their heads very low on a long rein.  They even
    so much as were using running martingales while they were warming up.
    When they cantered it was the same frame.  Although the canter was
    very unbalanced in most cases and the horses way of going behind was
    very stiff legged.  They did "patterns" individually, with Patty
    commenting on each one. Some of the people riding in the clinic
    were wearing jackets with things like NEQHYA 1988 team on them so
    I am assuming that they were experienced QH show people.  I was very
    disappointed to see that the frame of a QH Hunter is not nearly the
    way I would like to see a horse move.  With all the Dressage exposure
    we have it would seem that even the QH world would update their
    standards.  I am sure that there are a few judges and trainers who
    do prefer a more balanced forward frame for a QH Hunter - but I am
    basing what I have said on the fact that this is 1989, the clinic was
    run by the NEQHA and the barn was full of QH's.  Another really bizare
    thing I saw there was - all the horses had there tails in a big braid,
    some of them dragged on the ground.  Why the big long tails?  
    Can anyone out there offer any first hand experience with showing a QH
    Hunter?   I am planning on going to the QH show in Northampton MA
    in May just to watch some of the classes to get a better idea of
    what is expected. 

    I have a QH that I don't show at QH shows. She was a "peanut pusher"
    that I have spent the last year teaching the basics of Dressage
    to. She is now a much happier horse, doesn't get a sore back and
    stiff front knees from trail riding anymore. (age is 15) As for
    the long tails; My friend that shows the circuit says long is in.
    The longer the better, maybe they want to look like Saddlebreds
    and Walkers? Personally my QH doesn't grow a tail longer than her
    hocks so I can't begin to compete but I appreciate her for what
    she is, a good honest versitile quarter horse!
    
    Sandy
    

    
    I have to agree concerning the way the QH Hunter moves at these
    shows and clinics. This has been a major gripe with me for awhile.
    I went to a few QH shows last year and was more than disappointed 
    at what I saw. Not only are the flat classes run with these horses
    hanging low unable to use their necks, but the fence classes were 
    even worse. The horses were tripping over themselves trying to get
    over the fences. Not only in my estimation was it unsafe practice 
    to train a horse to move like this, but it looks ridiculous!!  A 
    few things that QH people have to try and keep in mind however is 
    that many of these people who are judging have never had a vast 
    amount of experience in hunters and don't know how a true hunter 
    should move. Their area of expertise is western pleasure/equitation.
    English hunters are moving slowly out west. A few years back they 
    didn't even offer jumping.  I know there are some qualified people
    out there who DO know what to look for and place.  The word has to
    be spread though. It won't change overnight.  I have been talking to
    a few people in the Mass QH Club with the same concerns. A few have 
    been showing for quite awhile, properly in the Hunter name, and do
    extremely well. Others aren't willing to try, stating that they won't
    do well and why bother because they see SO many horses shuffling around
    the ring with their heads down low. The only thing I can say is get in
    their and show them how its done right.  At least give it a shot. You 
    may be surprised. If the QH hunter is going to be properly represented
    in the future, the changes are going to have to come from the people 
    who have the knowledge. We can't rely on Western Pleasure judges and
    trainers needing to learn it second hand without enthusiasm just to
    keep their business running as more interest peaks. My .02 worth.
    
    Marianne
    

    re. mare... see more and more people cant afford trainers,
    and i see more and more people who can are also pulling their horses
    out of big barns,  and doin their own training and competeing
    against the pros.... [remeber pros can be beaten at any given day]
    
    as far as western pleasure, i have a western horse, if i wanna show
    i show under their rules?? no way, they just lost my business,
    i'm not dumping 400 for two days in show fees just to see what happens
    , gosh! i'm real sorry, if they want my businss let me see some
    changes in the way they judge horses.. the people in the mass or
    nh qh clubs pick their own judges, they know what they like and
    what they dislike, anyone who tells me this isnt true is lieing,
    i know i used to be one of the decision makers for planning shows.....
    also we need to get this brought up at a convention
    meeting where big decision makers are there to hear some of the
    concerns they might or might not be aware of..

    if we dont give them the business they will either have to change
    their ways or they just wont get work......
    i think its as simple as that..
    
    i called aqha in texas, and i talked (finally ) one of the bd of
    directors, and i told them why i was pulled my aqha stuff and where
    i was taking my business.. what could they do.. if more and more
    people wrote in and started standing up for what they **dont wanna
    see then we proably would have seen some changes (this has been
    an ongoing problem for about 15 years now)
    
    sure i'll admit it, i like a nice slow lope and a pretty head set,
    but not the head hanging type frame they have been showing in for
    5 years now...i just cant and wont do it!
    
    	wendy o'
    

    I got the impression from this clinic that I attended, that most of the
    people there thought that all they had to do was change tack and
    clothes and they ready for the Hunter classes.  There is definitely
    a difference between Hunter pleasure and Western pleasure.  In most
    cases the horse is either better suited to one thing or the other.
    Granted there are alot of versatile QH's out there - but there
    should be a definite distinction between Hunter type and Stock type.
    There is no way that a Western Pleasure horse who wins his Western
    Pleasure class - should simply change tack and go on to win the
    Hunter Pleasure against true Hunter type horses, and vice versa.
    I think that is where the problems started years ago.  I have a
    16.3 hand QH Hunter gelding that I would never consider putting
    Western tack on and try to force to do a slow jog.  He has a big
    forward stride and it would be near impossible to 'cramp' his style.
    He is definetly 'Hunter type'.  I am not going to tie up his tail
    and grow it real long - how long do you think a tail like that would
    last on a real Hunt?  That is what a 'Hunter' is suppose to represent,
    isn't it?!  This thing with the tail has gone too far! It looked
    really stupid!  After all, these were QH's!!!!!!
    
    

    I just thought of something - why not have a 'real QH Hunter Clinic'?
    Maybe Mass or NE could organize something?  There must be alot of
    people that could support something like this.  I would be a very
    willing participant.  They could even have some Hunter over fences
    schooling included.  There must be a QH judge or trainer who supports
    the true Hunter way of going out there somewhere that would be willing
    to help try promote the QH Hunter.  It could be somewhat controversial-
    but I suppose that's life!  Any ideas?????
    
    Marianne, is anyone representing the QH Hunter at the Equine Expo?
    How about Dressage?  Any Hunter over fences demonstrations?  
    It would certainly be a good time to promote those things.
    Maybe next year.  

    
    Wendy, I'd love to see something like this. Its unfortunate within
    the clubs though. They are so interested in what the judges are going
    to want to see they look to them for advice when they should be 
    looking to Hunter people, then showing the judges whats proper. Again,
    to have a QH hunter clinic, would be only as successful as those who
    were willing to buck the system. I would be one of them, I wouldn't
    compromise my horses training just to get some points or a ribbon, but
    I"m also not into the breed shows enough to make it worth a battle. If
    I was relying on the breed shows for part of my living I would work
    much harder to see the changes. If others were willing I"d help start
    New England going anyway, perhaps as Wendy Matthews mentioned pushing 
    for more suitable judges and clinicians. btw, I am one of those in the
    Mass club that has basically decided to stick to the open shows,
    possibly NEHC pointed in the QH divisions and hitting an occasional
    breed show for fun and diversity only. Like Wendy M stated, its hard
    to put out $400 to give it a shot...I'm willing to spend money on 
    fun, but once it becomes a necessity for points etc.. I don't want to 
    be in a position of second guessing whether I'll be given a fair shot
    or not, every time out. 
    
    As far as clinics go, I'd stick with a Known Hunter
    clinician/instructor, then for Western Pleasure (as a second for me) go
    to someone I trust and respect that won't push me, only trying to boost
    their own work.  Maybe if we can push the open Hunter clinics to the
    breeds, there might be a starting point.
    
    btw, there are a few decent hunter people in the Mass club, maybe we
    can get a clinic with one of them for the people that would be 
    interested??
    
    Marianne
    

    Marianne, you can count me in.  Maybe if enough people showed that they
    were not afraid to 'buck the system' others would follow suit.
    I am only interested in the breed shows as something different to do
    once in a while.  I do not want to go for points or anything.  I just
    want to be sucessful and enjoy myself.  Too many sacrifices can be
    made when one concentrates on only winning.  Maybe I will go and
    show these people what a real Hunter is.  It would be obvious over
    a course of fences.  At least there, it is an individual showing of
    ones ability - and 1 + 1 = 2!  You can't have a good round of fences
    without demonstrating the essentials of your flatwork.  I might be
    out of place in the Under Saddles - but over fences they would be
    out of place.  Anyone else interested?     

    MY NEIGHBORS WENT TO THE SHOWS IN ONECO A WEEK OR SO AGO.  THEY
    SHOWED ME A TAPE OF THEIR CLASSES.  THEY SAID THE SHOW WAS SMALL
    BUT IT WAS EARLY AND COLD.  THEY ALSO SAID THEIR WERE MANY YOUTH
    THERE.  THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD SIGN.

    
    Mass QH had a great youth team last summer. Unfortunately they
    didn't get it together until August. Last year was the first time 
    Mass has had a Youth Team in several years. I believe this year 
    will be even bigger. The youth club has become very active.  Now 
    with the Novice youth and Novice amateur divisions, I think the
    draw will be much bigger.
    
    

    
    Well, I have finally found THE horse.  A 3 year old registerd Quarter
    Horse mare.  She is 15.3, liver chestnut w/flaxen tail 3 white socks
    and a blaze.  Stunning horse!  I love her!  
    
    I would like to start showing her at the Quarter horse shows this
    year, does anyone have any suggestions?  I have never shown the
    Quarter Horse circuit and don't know where to begin.  I would like
    to halter her this year, I think she still needs more polish even
    for the snaffle classes.
    
    I am looking forward to this year.  Is there a NH Quarter Horse
    Association?
    
    Thanks
    
    KJ

    
    Congratulations! Your horse sounds wonderful!
    There is a New Hampshire Quarterhorse Organization. They are quite 
    active. Their show is being held in August I believe at Centerton 
    Farm in Stratham. If I don't get my horses there, I"m going up to 
    watch anyway!!  I'm involved in the Mass QH Association, if you would
    like any info on our club, just give a yell!
    
    Marianne
    

    GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR NEW HORSE.   I would suggest you go and watch
    a couple of AQHA shows before you show, this would give you an idea
    of what goes on in a AQHA show.  

    Does anyone know anything about "What's Up Lark?" I believe he is
    standing at stud in Jefferson MA but I'm not sure.  I think I read
    an article or saw an advertisement for him somewhere but of course
    I can't find it.
    
    If anyone has any particulars on him I would appreciate it.
    
    Thanks
    
    Karen

    Hi Karen, what types of specifics are you interested in?
    He's a 15.1 hand red chestnut. He hasn't done anything in the
    showring yet, but I believe they are planning on bringing him
    out next year. He's a nice looking horse. He is owned and located
    at Whit Parkers in Jefferson Mass.
    
    Marianne
    

    RE: 13.89
    
    That's a good start.  I love the Rugged Lark line but if I was to
    breed, I would prefer to breed to someone standing in New England
    and that is why I was particularly interested in this horse.
    
    Do you know how old he is?  Why he hasn't been shown?  No hurry,
    I can't breed her until 91 anyways.
    
    Thanks
    
    Karen

    Does anyone know anything about the Clinic being held on 4/28/90
    at Proctor Hill Farm in Littleton?  I believe it is a Mike Jerz
    who is conducting it.  I think it is a Pleasure clinic, I'm not
    sure though because I saw something on it a long time ago.
    
    KJ

    
    The openhouse-demo day at the Linghams (Proctor Hill Farm) is 
    being sponsored in conjunction with MassQH. The demo's are being
    put on by Jim Farrell of Greyledge Farm in Ct. Its not a riding 
    clinic by where outside horses come in..the ad in the Equine Journal
    was misleading. There will be display booths, distributors and demos
    going on from 1-4:00.  
    
    Marianne
    

    The number for Proctor Hill Farm is 508-486-4957.

    I have not seen much activity in this file for sometime and with spring
    here there should be some quarter horse avtivity starting.
    
    On April 27 and 28 at Proctor Hill Farms Littleton, Ma.  there will be
    a clinic.  Jim Farrell from Ct. will be giving the clinic.  You can
    call (508) 486-4957 for more information.  I saw flier for the clinic
    but I do not remember prices etc..  It did mention hunter under saddle,
    western pleasure, trail, showmanship etc..  Proctor Hill farm has a
    large indoor arena so the weather will not be a problem.  This is open
    to all breeds not just quarter horses.

    I was wondering if anyone got to go to the Quarter Horse show in
    Northhampton, MA this past weekend and see if the AQHA was really
    serious about there new rules and guidlelines in the Western Pleasure
    Classes.  I was also wondering if as many people are showing at the
    Breed shows this year.  I went to a show to help a friend this
    weekend and it was a local, unrated show only 2 over fences classes,
    the rest were pleasure classes and a trail class and there were 163
    pre-entries!   The place was absolutely mobbed, they couldn't park
    all the trailers, some people had to leave and I was wondering if
    anyone else has noticed that the "smaller" shows are getting bigger!
    
    KJ 

    I show at AQHA shows in the Maryland/Delaware area.  In the 14 shows
    I've shown in so far this year (it's been a busy spring!) there
    have been a couple of judges that really enforced the 'headset' part
    of the rule.  There is a 'big' trainer around here who had a horse
    in Senior Western Pleasure with his head way below horizontal. 
    The judge put him at or near the bottom.  The trainer went up to
    her after the class and was close to yelling at her about it!  The
    judge told him to read the rulebook.. and being the trainer that
    he is.. he ought to set a better example!  It was great :^)
    
    As far as the question about attendance.  The weather hasn't been
    the greatest so far.  Out of 7 weekends, only 1 has been really
    nice.  The shows in Maryland have been big, some of the Delaware
    ones weren't as big as I had hoped, but there was another show going
    on in Pennsylvania at the same time.
    
    Does anyone out there go to any shows in Maryland/Delaware?  I'm
    thinking about going to some in Pennsylvania/New Jersey too.
    
    -Sherry

    Re. Karen
    
    I was at that show for a little while, too (assuming you are talking
    about the Rowley RRDC show). GAWD, what a mob scene! I was only there
    for the first two halter classes (we took 3rd in one, I was
    astonished!) and left before seeing the other classes get started,
    because of the crowd. Hopefully the show committee will be able to
    do something to minimize the problem for the September show...perhaps
    accept only pre-entries or something? Or close entries to a set number
    of horses per class?? The area is really limited for parking there,
    too, so hopefully they will be able to find an acceptable way to limit
    the number of entries. 

    
    
    RE: 13.113
    The new rules are supposed to be in effect this year.  They even have
    pictures of what is desirable and undesirable.   I think some of them
    are:  horses who carry there head that the point of the ear is lower
    than the withers, head carriage with the nose behind the vertical,
    excessively slow gait, horses that appear dull, lethargic (those bags
    of bones that drag themselves around the ring) or overly tired.  
    
    Anyways any of those faults are supposed to be penalized just like
    taking a wrong lead, bucking or bolting.  There maybe more but I can't
    remember them off the top of my head.  
    
    (13.114)
    
    Rowley is the show I was talking about!  That was horrible!  A club
    member told me that they had 163 pre-entries for the show and last year
    they had 29 or 30 pre-entries for the spring show!  We were so psyched
    to go because it was so close, after about 1 hour we really regretted
    it.   We were parked right up against the warm up area (wasn't that a
    hoot!)  I felt really bad for the two people showing although they
    scratched from their last 2 classes.  They were on class 20 at 5:00 and
    it went to class 30.
    
    Karen

    You know what really ticks me off is that I've been watching halter
    classes at both the APHA and the AQHA shows for 2 years now, going on
    my third year.  I have seen horses from yearlings now going into their
    three year old year.  They have been haltering looking marvelous and
    now all of a sudden when they start riding them they look like a pile
    of coathangers!!  
    
    It really aggravates me.
    
    

    I talked to some friends who went to North Hampton Quarter Horse Show.
    They said the Show was huge.  She said most of the riding classes were
    4 or more pointed classes, the futurities were big and she said the
    halter classes were bigger than they havve been in resent years. 
    There were trailers from all over new england, the northeast and Canada.
    They said when they got there Friday night they got the last sewer
    hook-up for their camper.  Sounds like it was a good show.

    Some fiends told me Norm Hartford was killed resently in an accident
    while breeding his stallion.  Norm use to run the New Hampshire Quarter
    Horse Futurities and was active in the NHQHA.

    
    Did anyone else see that the AQHA shows held in Springfield were the
    19th largest out of 2400 AQHA shows last year.  I thought that was
    pretty wild.
    
    	Karen

    I read that the MQHA shows held in May 1990 in North Hampton had the
    18th largest halter classes for that year.  I guess that's why some of
    the big name trainers were showing at that show this year.  I did not
    go to North Hampton this year, but some friends who went said it was a
    big show.
    
    West sprinfield was always the largest AQHA show in New England when I
    was showing in the 70's and early 80's.  Then they had a little trouble
    in the mid and late 80's. The last couple of years I have seen this show
    getting bigger.  I hope it is a good show this year.  I plan on going
    to watch this show for a day this year.  

    Is anyone planning on going to the NHQHA show held at Majestic Meadows
    in Stratham, NH August 23-25?  I am planning on going to watch.
    
    Karen

    I have some friends who are showing this year so I might go to the
    NHQHA show.  The Stratham Show grounds are not the best place to watch
    a show, there isn't any stands/seating.  Other than that ,it is usually
    a good show.

    I know what you mean, especially if they are indoors there is no where
    to go but stand against the wall.  I think they put up one or two
    benches on the grassy hill along one of the rings.  I'm going to go and
    watch my friends too, if their classes are at a decent hour.  Last year
    in No. Hampton they had classes after midnight.
    
    I think that only 4 organizations held their shows at Majestic Meadows
    this year.
    
    Karen

     In my opinion the best place to watch a show is still the Eastern
    States Expo in W. Springfield.  It has plenty of seats that are some
    what confortable.  North Hampton is ok but those bench seats hurt my
    back if I sit too long.    

    I went to watch the NEQHA show in W. Springfield.  It was a pretty good
    show and a large show.  I was happy to see the heads are much higher in
    the western pleasure classes.  Those who did show with their horses
    heads low did not get pinned.  The NRHA reining Sat. night was good
    also.

    I went to the NHQHA show at Majestic Meadows and I was very
    disappointed.  There were very few entries and the show was over by
    6:00 p.m. on Saturday evening.  They didn't even have any reining.  I
    had heard before the show that a lot of people were boycotting the show
    because it was being held at Majestic Meadows and they are so
    expensive. 
    
    The halter classes were small (except for 2 year old stallions that had
    9) and even the pleasure futurities had 4 horses in them!  The only
    riding class I saw was on Saturday evening and that was trail.  
    
    Anyone else venture up there over the weekend?  I went to this show two
    years ago and it was huge!
    
    One more question:  When and association (for example the NHQHA) holds
    a show and rents the grounds who gets the stall fees, the NHQHA or the
    grounds?  Does the organization pay one price regardless of how many
    entries or does it pay by how many stalls it rented?
    
    Karen

    
    I went. Found directions on my own, and didn't even get lost!! 
    
    I agree about the weak showing, both in number and quality. I went on 
    Sunday - gorgeous day for an outdoor show. 
    
    I, too, wonder how Majestic Meadows exists. There are two people who
    have horses in this vast facility: one with 25 Morgans and one with 
    13 Arabs and � Arabs. Very few number of these are boarders. Yet this
    place could house hundreds !! So where does Majestic Meadows make its
    money, or even get by, for that matter ??? HHmmmm.... I don't think
    that providing facilities for a couple of shows a year is enough.
    
    

    From what I understand most of it comes from shows...I know of six
    shows that were held there this year.  We have a show there this
    weekend...not sure of the turnout.  The entries were low at closing
    date but one never knows.  Many of the trainers do post entries as they
    don't have to pay for it.
    
    I am not particularly fond of the grounds for camping.  To me there
    really aren't any "camping grounds".  However, it is better than it was
    last year...the people are friendlier.
    
    Kathie
    

    RE: -1
    
    Hi Kathy, I'm supposed to say hi to you from Chuck Guido and I kept
    forgetting!
    
    I would imagine that Majestic Meadows would be friendlier this year if
    they need to get some business for next year and I understand that they
    are more willing to work with the clubs this year.  I like the show
    facilities but for camping it is like camping out in a sand pit!   It
    is such a close ride to the coast for some seafood too.
    
    Karen

    Is anyone out there going to the QH Congress this year.. to show
    or just watch?
    
    I'll be there the whole 2 weeks.  I'll be showing in Amateur
    Showmanship, Trail, Hunter Under Saddle, Hunt seat Equitation, and
    Horsemanship.  I went for the second weekend last year - just to
    watch.  It had been 9 years before that when I was there last!
    .. it's taken me a while to find another horse that (hopefully) will do
    well enough to at least not embarass me there!!
    
    Please let me know if anyone else will be there.. I'd love to meet
    some other noters!
    
    -Sherry

    Could someone give me the names of Quarter Horse Breeders/Farms in the
    New England area, such as N.H., Vermont or Massachusetts, if any.  Any
    information would be appreciated.
    
    Thanks.
    
    

    The following are members of my horse club.....
    
    Bob & Sally Boucher  (VT) 802-467-8820
    
    Ron Fasolo  (S.E. MA) 508-823-1640
    
    Vicki Reed  (S.E. MA) 508-824-8810
    
    If they don't have anything, they know who
    might.....
    
    Tell them you heard of them from Lynne Mandile

    We have a new Quarter Horse colt at our barn.  He was born outside
    Friday afternoon and fell right smack in a puddle the first time he
    tried to get up.  Luckily, someone was nearby and carried the little
    guy in.  He and mother are doing well.
    
    K

    I know that the NHQHA is holding their show in conjunction with the NE
    Paint Horse Association in August at the Deerfield Fairgrounds.  I
    think that will be really interesting and should make for a good show.
    
    I believe that there is a QH show in Oneco, CT April 4 & 5th (first one
    I know of) but I will have to look it up.
    
    What do people think of different breeds holding there shows together? 
    I know that the Paint Association is having shows with the Bucksin
    Assn., the Appaloosa Assn., and the NHQHA.  Do you think that this will
    increase attendance at these shows?  I know that a lot of people may
    own say Quarter Horses and Appaloosas and may throw both of them on the
    trailer if the show is combined, or Paints, etc.
    
    Karen

    How tough are the AQHA hater classes in the CT/MA/NH area?  Are
    there Congress/World quality halter horses showing, or is it fairly
    eacy to get halter points?  Are the halter classes very big?
    
    I'm asking because I have a nice gelding with decent conformation,
    but he isn't the massive halter horse you see at the big shows.
     The only points I need for his AQHA Amateur Championship are some
    halter points.  I'm trying to figure out where I can haul to have
    a good chance of picking some up.  I may be getting up there on
    business in the future.. and if it can be arranged around a horse
    show weekend :^) ..
    
    Thanks,
    Sherry

    Is anyone going to the AQHA show in Northampton May 9-10?  I may
    be up there for business around that time and I'm thinking of hauling
    my horse with me and showing there.  Is it usually a big show? 
    How tough is the competition?  I show in Amateur everything!
    
    Hope to see some of you!
    -Sherry (and Officer In Charge - "Charger")

    
    
    It is my understanding that in order to show as an amature, the horse
    must be owned by you or someone in your immediate family.  you also
    need to be a current member of AQHA and have a valid amature card to
    present to the show committee when entering.  
    
    You might want to pick up the Quarter Horse Journal for April or May as
    it carries a list of all sanctioned shows and the classes that are
    offered at each.  The list is divided by month and state and should
    have the info that you are looking for.  I believe that The Equestrian
    Shop in Andover, Mass. carries it.
    
    Pat  

    
    	Can anyone tell me what books to look for to learn more about QH
    lines?  Specifically, my new horse has Jet Deck and Whimpy ancestors 
    and I'd like to know more about these horses.
    
    Thanks,
    
    	JB

    Contact the AQHA in Amarillo, Texas....(American Quarter Horse Association)
    
    
    Lynne

    Did anyone go to Northhampton the weekend of the 6th and 7th?  That is
    usually a very well attended show.
    
    I couldn't go.  I haven't gotten to go to one QH or Paint show yet this
    year.  I won't even try to go to the Paint Show in NH this weekend
    during "MOTORCYCLE WEEKEND"!
    
    Karen
    

    Well I finally got around to reading this notesfile again!  I heard
    my name a couple replys back :^)
    
    I went to the Northampton shows June 6-7.  They were big shows!
    We did better this time.. we were Reserve All Around Amatuer on
    Saturday!
    
    I'm hoping to get back up for the West Springfield,MA shows the end
    of July/Beginning August.. if things work out maybe we'll see you
    there!

    I'll be going (with my horse) to the Congress this year.  Luckily
    I have a trailer with living quarters now so I can stay on the show
    grounds!
    
    I've been to the Congress alot.. if it's your first time you are
    in for a great and unbelievable time.  It's almost impossible to
    describe.  There was an article in Performance Horseman about it
    last year.  I can't remember which month though..
    
    There are alot of hotels/motels with varying prices.  If you want
    to send me mail, I can look up my book from last year and give you
    some information depending on the price range you're looking for.
    
    They started taking reservations in April, so the really close ones
    are probably booked.  However, I'm sure there are still plenty of
    rooms - just a little farther away.
    
    -Sherry

    The QH Congress information book will be coming out next week. 
    It has hotel info, the show program, and entry forms.  It's free.
    You can get on the mailing list by calling the Ohio QH Assn at 
    (614)-943-2346.

    Are there any Quarter Horse noters still out there?
    
    I'll be showing my 3 year old in the futurities at the AQHA shows
    in Northampton May 8-9 and June 4-6.  Also at Skowhegan, ME May
    29-31 and July 2-5.  
    
    Will anyone else be at any of those shows?
    
    -Sherry

    Hi Sherry!
    
    I won't be making it to Northhampton or ME, but good luck
    from my QH to yours! (8
    
    Lynne

Hi Sherry,

	I'll be showing my yearling filly, "Crown of Approval", in the Open 
and Amateur Futurities in Northampton. I will also have my 4 yr old gelding, 
"Cool Kansas Kid" showing in halter. Good Luck in your classes!!!


							Dave D. 

    Dave,
    
    Will you be showing Cool Kansas Kid in Sr Amateur Geldings?  If
    so,  we'll be in the same class!  (In addition to the futurities,
    I'll also be showing in Amateur Showmanship, Trail, Western Pleasure 
    and Horsemanship.)  
    
    Will you have stalls there?  What name would they be under?  I'll
    be with Sable Oak Equestrian Center - Sherrye Johnston Trafton.
    
    Good luck and I look forward to meeting you!
    
    -Sherry (and Mr Scotch Bar Time)

    Hi!
    
    I would like some information on the following QH's sires and dams.
    
    Strawberrys An Cream
                                  sire
   				 Kluzo
    		Beduino	      			War Ran Te
    	Romany Royal   Jo-Ann-Cat	Azure Te	Miss War Bar
    
    
    				 Dam
    		            Ruby Ann Gold
                Chude J's Black Gold  		Faye Anniversary
    	Depth Charge	Mabel Crawford    Can Do       Princess Ann Bradley
    
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sweet Tiny Dancer
    
    					Sire
    				Tuxedo Junction
    		Truly Truckle  			Ruby Ann Gold
    Fair Truckle	Fair sister	ChudeJ's Black Gold  Faye Anniver
    		
    					Dam
    				Sweet Pisces
    		Merridoc			Huggy Bear
    Tiny's Gay		Sparkling Tip	Moore Go	May I Win
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    On another note..............
    
    What are the AQHA Showing rules for siver on halters?  I was told that
    you get marked down if you don't have silver on the halters and on the
    saddles.  Is this true?  What ever happened to showing horses for their
    ability and conformation?
    
    Virginia
    
    
    		
    
    	

    Virginia,
    
    Some of the sires/dams sound familiar, but I don't know any specifics.
    If you call AQHA (806)376-4811, they can give you some information.
    The last time I called about that sort of thing, they would only
    do a certain number free over the phone.  I just called them a few
    different times!
    
    One that I noticed was Huggy Bear.  I had a horse named Miss Huggy
    Bear and another (that I named) Ms Huggy Bear (because I liked the
    name so much and Miss Huggy Bear was such a good horse).  But, I
    don't think your Huggy Bear is any relation.
    
    About silver.. The AQHA rulebook states "Silver equipment will not
    count over a good working outfit".  Almost all the judges I've seen
    do not count off for equipment that doesn't have silver.  For those
    that seems to - I think it's more the politics for someone riding
    over someone who doesn't have silver.
    
    Now that I've said that.. I will say that when you're in a class
    like Western Pleasure with 20 other horses, you've got to be able
    to catch the judges eye.  A very showy saddle is one way, but that 
    doesn't mean that silver is the only way.  The outfit you wear,
    your position on the rail, and your horses' presence are other ways.
    
    My (more than) 2 cents!
    Sherry

    Thanks Sherrie!
    
    I didn't think that was right!  *sigh*  I feel much better.
    
    
    virginia

    Virginia-
    
    However, this depends where you are showing!  Here in N.E.,
    It's not how you ride, it's how you look! (and who you know,
    and who you bought your horse from, etc......)
    
    Whe I was visiting TX this past fall, I did a little showing,
    and it's how you ride, not how you look!
    
    L-

    I think it depends more on who the judge is rather than the part
    of the country.  I've shown in AQHA shows in Maine, Mass., Maryland,
    Delaware, Virginia, West Virgina, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Kentucky,
    North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi, Colorado, 
    Nebraska, Texas, Oklahoma and California.  
    
    There have been times when I've shown under a judge in one place
    and he's judged fairly.  Then show under the same judge another
    place (where he obviously knew someone and must have owed them
    something) and it was not judged fairly.  I have to say this isn't 
    usually the case .. but it does happen.  Fortunately, it seems to 
    be happening less and less.  There is only one judge that I will not 
    show under because he is always political.
    
    -Sherry
    

Sherry,

	I will be stabling my yearling with "Caijon Quarter Horses"/John 
Lanoue, from Schoharie, NY. I live about 25 minutes from Northampton, so I will 
be trailering "Kid" each day. We will be in Sr. Amateur Geldings together. I am 
planning to do only halter for the week-end. "Good Luck" with all of your 
classes, we will see you there.

						Dave

    Thanks for all the input.  I know how the political side of showing
    works.  That was one of the reasons I stoped showing all together. 
    What I was really after was if the silver  was a REQUIREMENT in AQHA
    shows.  As long as it isn't, I think we will do fine.  After all, if
    you have a good horse, you have a good horse.
    
    Virginia

    Re: -1
    
    >> After all, if you have a good horse you have a good horse
    
    EXACTLY !!!
    
    

    Ok, here is another one for you.
    
    I will leave out the names to protect the bum that has screwed up.
    
    The stallion owner that we just bred our 3 mares to bounced a check to
    the AQHA for his fees concerning his stallion's coverages for the
    season.  I was told by another mare owner that the AQHA wont let her
    register any of her foals by this stallion because of this bounced
    check.  I then talked to another AQHA stallion owner and he said that
    he heard from a reliable source withing the AQHA that the stallion is
    being 'blackballed' untill the owner makes things right with the AQHA.
    
    Is this leagal?  Does this mean that our foals will not be able to be
    registered?  Can we sue the stallion owner for our stud fees back?
    
    I am so lost!
    
    
    Virginia

    Since the stallion owner's check bounced (I'm assuming it was for
    the stallion breeding report fee), that sounds like the equivalent
    of not paying it.  If it was for mares bred this year, he actually
    has until November 30 to file and pay for the breeding report.
    
    If it was for last year.. then (it sounds to me like) foals can't
    be registered since the stallion report wasn't paid for.  I would
    think AQHA would go after this guy for disciplinary action.
    
    Looking at the rulebook, it doesn't sound like it's alot of money.
    It's $10 per stallion ($25 for non-members) for the year plus $3 for 
    each mare exposed to the stallion during the year ($6 for non-members).
    
    If I were you, I'd call AQHA and ask them what's going on.

    -Sherry

    We called the AQHA and they didn't have any information they could
    release to us.  We don't have the breeders cirtificate yet and therfore
    don't have a right to inquire about the stallion's status with the
    association.  I think the ammount may be quite alot because the owner
    AI's all mares and that way he can cover quite a few.
    
    Thanks again.
    
    Virginia

    
    A little late, since the barn door was already left open, (:
    but it would have been a good move to check w/ the AQHA
    to see if there were any problems w/ the Stallion and/or
    his paperwork BEFORE breeding.
    
    You may end up with unregisterable foals.....and an expensive
    court case in order to either get them registered, or any type
    of refund.

    Virginia,
    
    Whether or not you can sue the stallion owner would depend on the
    representations he made to you, especially those in a written contract.
    
    If he only said that the stallion is a registered QH and said nothing
    about his status with AQHA or implying that you could register the
    foals(I'm assuming that these were QH mares or TB mares eligible for
    Appendix registration of their foals), you probably can't sue. If he
    specifically said that the foals would be registerable, you may have
    legal grounds for a law suit. Only a CA lawyer could tell you for sure
    because the laws vary so much from state to state.
    
    But, I can tell you that you'd be MUCH better off NOT suing. You bred 3 
    mares, right? So, you probably don't have a lot of money into it
    compared to what it would cost you to sue. It costs LOTS of money to
    sue somebody. Unless they will owe you BIG $, it ain't worth it! Here's
    some examples:
    
    A friend of mine sued the guy he bought his house from because the guy 
    told him it was on the town sewer and it wasn't. He got $3,000 from the 
    former owner and it cost him $2,000 in lawyer's bills.
    
    We sued the people we bought our farm from because they had told us(IN
    WRITING!) that the bridge providing the only access to the place would
    support 40 ton trucks(i.e. 18 wheelers & concrete trucks). The bridge
    broke and they wouldn't repair it. We spent a year negotiating and 7
    months dealing with a law suit. We final got an out-of-court settlement 
    from them which covered all but $5,000 of the damage but we spent 45% of 
    the settlement amount on lawyer's bills!
    
    My boss sued his neighbors and got court orders against them, TWICE! He
    spent something like $35,000 on lawyer's bills and got NO MONEY from
    the defendants.

    Virginia, first before I believed any of the rumours, I would check
    with the breeder to find out his version of what's going on (like, is
    there a problem?  Is your stallion registered or not? etc.).  I find it
    really hard to believe that the problem (assuming that there is a
    problem) is over a $10 registration fee. 
    
    If the problem really is something stupid like a $10 registration fee
    and the guy is being a jerk, I would seriously consider paying the
    *#@#$*O% fee on his behalf, in order to assure that the foals could be
    registered.  Take a small expense to protect *your* investment -- then 
    don't breed to him again (unless he squares with you, of course).
    
    Mary 

    Oh, and if the money he owes AQHA turns out to be a more significant
    amount, see if you can get others in your situation to band together
    and chip in, in order to protect yourselves.  And then, as I said
    before, if he doesn't make restitution to you, blackball him next year
    and foreverafter -- and warn everyone you know, of course ;-)
    
    mary

    Yeah, what Mary said! It's much better to resolve the problem with the
    owner(if there is a problem!) or use some creative solution like paying the
    fee. Stick to AQHA administrative procedures if those ideas fail rather
    than going to court.
    
    Actually, I did that myself once about 8-10 years ago. A horse I bought
    was registered. The owner had to send in the paper work to transfer the
    registration papers to me. When I didn't get the papers in a couple
    months, I called her. She claimed to have sent them in so I called the
    registry. They said she HAD sent them but with the wrong fee. They had
    been trying to get the remainder of the fee for 2 months! They were
    quite willing to let me pay the fee and clear the matter up. SO maybe
    AQHA would be flexible too.

    Ok, ok ok.
    
    The problem is that he tried to register 3 or 4 foals of his own along
    with the stallion's breeding record.  The ammount was quit signifigant
    and therfore I could never think of paying it myself.  The person I
    talked to at AQHA today said that we would have to pay a percentage of
    the stallion's fees to register the foals.  She wouldn't give me any
    ammount untill the foals were on the ground.  Since that is almost a
    year away, I am hoping that the owner is going to make things right. 
    I will keep you up to date on the situation.
    
    Thanks,
    
    
    Virginia

    Is anyone going to the Congress??
    
    I'm going to go out next week and watch!  Can't wait, I think I 
    will leave my credit cards at home!
    
    Karen

    
    	Have fun at the Congress - and if you get a chance - please 
    report back to us the trends and changes happening in QH showing.
    
    	BTW: I read that the horse in the new "Black Stallion" movie
    is a registered Quarter Horse!!!
    
    - Janice                         

    Yes, the horse in Black Beauty is a Quarter horse, I forget what his
    name is.  It might be Justin, I have that issue of the QH Journal.  
    
    I don't know if Sherry Butler is still here but I saw in the journal
    that she made her Amateur Championship!  Not an easy thing to do!
    
    I did go to the Congress and ate like a pig!  I did notice a lot of
    tail movement which means that they aren't "doing" tails.  But it was
    nice to see EVERYONE moving their tails.  I went to a Western Pleasure
    demonstration by Dale Livingston and a demonstration on Longeline
    classes.   These were open to questions by the audience and one
    observer asked how much "free" time that their horses had (longeline
    prospects) and at this particular farm they didn't get any from the
    time they are weaned until the time they retire.  
    
    I thought that the headsets were much better.
    
    Karen

    No, Sherry Butler isn't at DEC anymore.  She took the package last
    spring and found another job, then  she and her husband just relocated
    to Portland Oregon last month.  She did really well with her horse
    Scotty (Mr. Scotch Bar Time, I think) and plans to continue to show
    in the Portland area.  

    RE: 110.132 - Did I say 'Black Stallion'?  We all know he was a
    gorgeous Arab.  The new 'Black Beauty' is a QH. (Saw the movie this
    week - very well done - a good family movie.)
    
    - JB

    Hey, QH fans. Can you tell me something about QH reigstration rules?
    I thought the AQHA had a "no pinto coloring" rule of some sort. But,
    on the ESPN of a showjumping competition last Sunday, the commentator
    said the next horse was a QH. It had pinto markings all over it. The
    guy said this is common in QHs. In fact, I thought I heard that the
    AQHA recently relaxed their rules so that geldings could be registered
    with such markings but not breeding stock. Is the commentator out to 
    lunch or am I?
    
    john

    
    There was a big article on this in Eqqus last month.  It was all
    about the relaxing of rules when it comes to registering.  I will
    bring in the article tomorrow and post it...there was alot of
    attention given to the QH.
    
    Lou

    I know that the AQHA relaxed their rules on the color requirements, but
    I don't know how much.  I have seen double registered AQHA/APHA horses
    win BIG futurities in both breeds!  
    
    I haven't seen the actual rule change, but if someone has it I would
    love to see it posted.
    
    Karen

    You have seen AQHA /APHA double registered horses?  I didn't think we
    could do this?  My mare is appendix QH, I wounder if this would count?

    Yes, I have but they have been minimum white (APHA).  I don't
    understand the rules since I don't get a rulebook from the AQHA
    anymore.  My horse is a cropout but I would think that he has too much
    white for the new rule.  
    
    I would really like to know what the new requirements are.
    
    Karen

    My mare is an appendix  quarter. If I breed her with a quarter
    do I register it as a quarter or a appendix  quarter?
    
    Thanks,
    	Carl

    Does anyone know where the Solid Gold Futurity is held, or where the
    contact office is?
    
    Karen

    I went to the Mass. Quarter Horse show in Northhampton last weekend
    (almost got blown away with the wind) and watched some great classes. 
    
    New England is putting on some very large, lots of $$$ shows this year.
    
    Karen

    I was reading my QH journal last week when I read that both Impressive
    and Sonny Dee Bar had died.  Impressive died in March at 26, and Sonny
    Dee Bar died last August at 24.
    
    Design By Money also passed away.  Even though I knew that they were
    both old I was still surprised that they had died, I guess I thought
    they would last forever!  I think that Impressive had sired around 2200
    foals!
    
    Karen

I don't know if there are anymore QH noters out there but I heard that
Steve and Mary Carole Heckaman were in a terrible automobile accident last 
weekend.  

I sat with them on a trip to the APHA world a couple of years ago, they were
very nice (I didn't know who they were until I recognized the monogramming
on his boot bag) and chatted on the trip to Reno.

Karen