Conference noted::equitation

    About the only thing I can tell you about my first horse (Morgan
    cross) was that I spent months looking for the right combination
    of ability,potential,and cost! I would recommend that you spend
    plenty of time looking and riding as many different horses as possible
    so that you have a real good idea of what you want that horse to
    feel like under saddle. Believe me,when you find the right one you
    will know it...at least that's the way it's always been with me.We
    always seem to just click right from the start. You can see the
    horse's ability and you can sense the potential.
    About your comment on being a late starter,it's never too late to
    begin! Have fun looking!
    				Jim
    

    Boy if you are a late starter then I'm really over the hill.
    I bought my first horse at age 32.  She is a warm blood.
    The best thing about her is that she is so gentle.  Being a
    new horse owner I make many mistakes and she tolerates all of them.
    
    I have just started taking lessons at the stable that I board
    my mare.  So I get to use her in my class
    
    Have fun with your classes
    Mary Ann

I just sold my first horse; when I left the girl who bought Zipper
was hugging him, so I felt that I had left him in good hands!

I got Zippie at an auction for $450, and knew absolutely nothing
about him; there were no papers with him and he had come out on a
train from Missouri. He was so well behaved! But when I got him home
I found out otherwise - rearing was his favorite trick. But he got
over that, and we went on some 20-30 mile trail rides, fording
streams and up and down steep hills - it was great!

But Zipper, a palomino gelding, didn't jump anything other than
logs over the trail, and I got the jumping bug. So he's been
replaced by Delta Ray (I call him Ray-man), and registered
quarterhorse gelding, who's a jumping fool. I'm new at it but
Ray-man knows his stuff, so we're looking forward to a good time.
He's a feisty little quarterhorse (15h) with the most athletic
looking little horse-body you ever saw - lean and compact. He
jumps 4 feet easily (not with me on him, though - yet). I'd like
to do hunts and combined training with him. I'm new at this jumping
business, though, so we're going to do some working hunter classes
this spring, and see how it goes.

Ray-man is also a good western horse, and I want to take him for some
nice long trail-rides. Does anyone know of any place to ride in
Wilmington? That's where he's boarded currently. How about the
Manning State Forest? I've called the State Parks department for
that area and have been told "yes, you can ride there" and "No, no
riding there". Typical of state bureaucracy.

I have access to a trailer now, and will be getting my own, soon, so
can go other places anyone can suggest, too.

This is a *GREAT* notes file! Thanks for starting it!

-julie

(P.S. I bought Zipper, my first horse, 6 months after my 35th birthday -
so I'm the latest bloomer so far!)

	A friend is in desparate need to place her Connamara pony, and
   	we said we would gladly take him.  We need some quick ideas on
	where to find some inexpensive [or dirt cheap] fencing materials
	(posts, rails, what have you) for a paddock area.

	We have a stall and an acre + for a paddock area, but we need
	to quickly fence in at least part of the area before we bring
	him home; we live in Fitchburg, Ma. 

	At the ripe ol age of 38 [if you're over the hill, then
	I'm in the next County . . .  :^} ] this will be our first
	horse.  Any helpful ideas for fencing would be much appreciated!

	Post replies here or send mail to CONDOR::REILLEY.


	THANKS !

	Tom

    One of the quickest ways to fence, assuming the horse is reasonably
    well behaved:
    
    Drive 8' heavy duty fence posts into the ground every 10'. Use the
    heavy ones, not the light weight ones. On this, you can stretch
    and place 6' rolls of fencing wire that has 2x3" grid.
    
    We have done this over about 1500' and it is still OK 5 years later.
    It is not elegant, but it is relatively quick and not absurdly
    expensive.
    
    Incidently, there is a gadget that simplifies pounding the stakes--
    it is a steel cylinder about 2' long with one sealed end and two
    handles. In makes driving the stakes much easier. Hanging the wire
    is aided by a block and tackle to pull the wire taught and fencing
    pliers.

    
    Thanks, Peter.  We've fenced in 2 acres for our dogs using the
    6' wire fencing so we're used to working with that, but we'd
    have to order some more if we do that for the pony. In the
    meantime we're looking for a local supply of used or rough sawn
    boards that we could possibly use. I think I can drag out enough
    fence posts from the woods all around us - there are a _lot_ of
    dead trees on the ground - so all we'd need are the boards.
    
    Decisions, decisions...  :^}   Thanks, Peter.
    
    Tom
    

    	Is an electric fence out of the question??  Seems to me that
    	once you have the posts in - to wire a fence takes no time at
    	all... and with a good charger - keeps those nags in.
    
    	Mine respect our fence - if not, there is 5,000 volts of turning
    	power there to change their minds.
    
    	Susan

    
    	The discussion on fencing & materials has been moved to
    a separate Topic, # 29., so that this Topic can get back to the
    original discussion concerning experiences with your first
    horse or pony.
    
    Tom
    

    
    Hi, my daughter has shown an interest in horses for the past two
    
    years. She is bound and determined that she will get a pony. Can
    
    anyone give me some advise as to what type of horse/pony would suit
    
    her best. She is eight years old and still needs to learn alot about
    
    horses. She is currently learning how to care for a horse from our
    
    next door neighbor. How much does it cost to care for a horse/pony
    
    for a year if we have our own facility to board, food, health care,...?
    
    Where should we look to find a healthy,good natured horse/pony.
    
    What should we expect to pay ?
    
    I doubt if I have asked about all of the basic considerations, if
    
    I haven't, please provide me with as much info as possible.
    
    thanks in advance
    pat.
    

    	Hi, a friend of mine runs the rehabilitation center for the
    	New Hampshire Equine Services.  Their motto is:  "Better
    	Care Through Education".
    
    	They are always getting abused or horses that someone wants
    	to place in a GOOD home (a reasonable donation is given).  Of
    	course there have also been donkeys, and a occasional lama or
    	two... and miscellaneous other cridders.
    
    	Many times people call in and say they want to place their beloved
    	outgrown pony.  The animal is found a GOOD home - with a bounce-
    	back policy.  The person must sign a contract saying (in short)
    	that they will give the animal back to the services if they
    	loose interest or are found in any way abusing the animal.
    
    	One time they place a 5 year old ($6,000) reg. Quarter Horse
    	that someone's daughter "lost interest in" for only $500!!
    	This horse was pleasure trained - beautiful chestnut - four
    	socks and a blaze - what FLASH!
    
    	This group also runs a newsletter that has the "Doings On" of
    	the services and it has ads and some articles by vets and such.
    	
    	They also run clinics, rides and shows.
    

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    
    	My $.02 worth is:  If you child lives and breaths horses then
    	it MIGHT be worthwhile to get a horse/pony.
    
    	I saved 9 years when I was a child (every penny I had) and I
    	bought my first horse for $200.  I still have that same horse
    	he is now 30 years young.
    
    	I have seen MANY neglected horses (more then I care to mention)
    	due to "lack of interest" or ignorance. 
    
    	Lets learn before our heart gets us to leap in horses (kids
    	get parents to do the darnest things!).  They are rewarding 
    	and they are LOTS of WORK.  And for such a large animal - 
    	easy to KILL.
    
    	Learn, (parents too!) ALL you can!  There are some super books
    	and much can be taught by a veteran horse owner (one of good
    	merit).
    
    	They are large animals - but depend on you like a child for
    	their care, and well being.
    
    
    	Susan

    Susan,
    
    Thank you for your wisdom, care through education is a great
    guide-line.
    I have really two big concerns, one is whether or not we can 
    afford to feed and care for such a large animal properly. I
    have always loved horses myself but never lived in an area 
    where I could have one. Now we have a small farm and room to
    keep a horse/pony. Having riden several different horses my
    other concern is the temperment of a horse or a pony such that
    my daughter does not get hurt. As you can see my concern is for
    both my daughter and the horse or pony, should we decide to get
    one. I had one fellow suggest a Belgium Pony about 13h. He thought
    that the size would suit her for a long time. If we bought a horse
    or pony that is going to be outgrown by my daughter, that doesn't
    make much sense. I don't want to get one too large such that getting
    on or off will be a difficult task for her. I have not let on to
    her either way as to say we will or will not get one. I simply told
    her that a horse or a pony needs lots of care and that she should
    learn all about them before we decide. This will allow her to see
    the work side of things and not just taking a ride and parking the
    animal till the next time. So far she's been caring for our neighbors
    horse without a complaint. In fact she looks forward to every day.
    I'm afraid she's serious. I think that if she keeps her interest
    for another few months , we will have to do something. If we can
    prepare ourselves ahead of time, we will be able to answer my
    daughter with a decision one way or the other. Again thanks for
    your inputs. I still need lots more info.
    
    pat.
    
    

	If there is a pony club in your area, you may want to
	sign your daughter up for it. A friend of mine has done
	this for her son, and it's amazing what she gets out
	of it! She goes to all of the meeting with him. Some
	of the benefits are:

	1. Meetings with talks/films/demos on particular subjects
	   like feeding and caring for a horse; hoof care; equine
	   vital signs; various riding techniques; safety habits
	   and equipment - the list is too long!

	2. Summer lesson program.

	3. Competitions.

	4. Parties! apparently the parents enjoy these more than the
	   kids do!

	5. Contacts! with people who have horses/ponies to sell,
	   equipment to sell or give away and, especially, horses
	   for lease. Leasing generally involves paying only for
	   the food and board while using the horse, and possibly
	   shoeing and medical. Sometimes the owners will handle the
	   shoe and medicine expenses.

-julie

    I totally agree with 53.3 in that pony club is a good bet. An
    additional consideration is that you should find a good riding school
    in your area that your daughter can attend on a regular basis. A
    regular instructor is one of the best people to help find the right
    horse for your daughters temperment.The risk of buying a doped horse
    that will end up being unmanageable or lame is extremely high unless
    you get some experienced assistance. A few two cents of my own is
    that a horse is not a pet or a pal and you will be in trouble if
    you start off thinking that way. I also caution you not to confuse
    size with temperment as the larger breeds are normally the gentlest.
    
    Regarding cost, here in Sydney Australia, the average rate for boarding
    horses is $50 per week in stalls with agistment in paddocks with
    no feed at around $15 to $20 per week. Shoeing is $20 to $25 for all
    four feet and varies from four to six weeks between times depending
    on the horse and what work it is in. Worming we do twice with paste
    and twice with the vet drenching. Cuts bruises etc we treat ourselves
    and leave the serious things to the vet. We have the dentist in
    once a year and he files the teeth for $20. We normally go through
    an average of $100 per horse in either new rugs or repairs to rugs
    each year. Plus there is the lead ropes, halters, brushes, etc.
    which always seems to get chewwed broken or go missing. So all in
    all we budget $3300 per horse per year ( I cost board at the going
    rate because if we have any spare stalls in our barn thats what
    we rent them for, my wife disagrees with that logic). I would be
    interested to hear if that compares to costs in the U.S.
    
    
    feet and varies from four to six weeks between events

    	I have both of my horses home in New Hampshire.  Some years
    	ago I was (foolishly!) keeping track of my expenses.  It came
    	out that I spent about $2,500. in a year for my nags.  I think
    	that was in 1981.
    
    	My older horse hasn't been on hay for 6 years - so I just buy
    	hay for one.  I pay $2.50 a bale (timothy/clover mix) and got 
    	through three a week. (This horse is 1,200 pounds and 15.3h.)  
    	Grain (Blue Seal) is $10 - $12.00 per hundred pounds (I go 
    	through one hundred and fifty pounds a week).  They get 
    	wheatgerm oil every day one gallon of that is about $32.00 
    	(pure wheat germ).  Also have source that is $25.00 for 5 
    	pounds (will do one horse about six months I think).  Spring 
    	I also add whole oats to my riding horse's feed - that is $8 - 
    	$9.00 for one hundred pounds (will last my horse about a month). 
    
    	I worm every 10 weeks with Ivermetin (sp?) I buy in bulk, so
    	that is about $7.00 per tube.  Vet - if you have them come to
    	your farm - there is a farm call - $15 - $30.00.  I give my
    	own shots but I think they range $12 - $15.00 apiece.  Theeth
    	floted $12.00. (I have them checked every 6 months - my older
    	horse needs it done more often.)  Coggins Blood test $22.00
    	
    	Shoeing - $35.00 and UP.  Depends on what your horse needs done.
    	I do that every 6 - 8 weeks depends on the time of year - I
    	can go longer in the winter between trims.
    
    	And as mentioned various miscellaneous costs - brushes, tack
    	and feed addtives.                      
    	
    	Well, I think that is it in general - barring serious clashes
    	with objects and (horrors!) sickness.
    
    	Susan

    Actually buying a horse is one of the lesser expenses involved in
    life with horses. A few years ago I calculated that although I had
    paid only $1500 for my horse I had spent $15K on him since then.
    I board my horse at modest local stables and I now estimate a yearly
    expense of about $3500 including shoeing, vets, etc: and the few
    events I go to. You can, of course, "save" money by keeping your
    horse at home, but that involves hidden costs of your labour ( I
    don't know an eight year old who can heave hay bales around) and
    time to co-ordinate farriers, feed deliveries, etc: etc:. You are
    also now tied to your house by your horse since reliable horse
    sitters do not live on every block. Also consider what happens when
    your daughter discovers boys in a few years time and interest in
    horse evaporates (but the horse, stable and fencing do not). 

    My advice is to find a local stable and/or organization, such as
    the Pony Club or 4H Club, where your daughter can learn more and 
    participate without your having invested in a 900lb hungry and somewhat
    demanding pet. Some stables have "after school" lessons and summer
    day camp programs which your daughter could join. I didn't get my
    first horse until eight years after I started riding.           
                                                                   
    On strictly financial criteria, it would be better to sock money
    away for a college education, so that your daughter could find high
    paying employment in 15 years. If your daughter was still interested
    in horses at that time she could join the rest of us NOTES readers
    and writers in disposing of all our income and time on 1400lb hungry
    and very demanding pets.

    As reply 53.6 mentions, 4-H is a very good way to get experience
    around horses and there are people who are willing to let a child
    use a horse of their's as a 4-H project.  The goal of 4-H is to
    teach kids stable management and horse care so the experience is
    great for them.  Unfortunately this only works if you have good
    4-H clubs in the area.  I know that the Westford, Chelmsford and
    all of Middlesex County in Mass. has good 4-H clubs and a very active
    4-H program.
    
    Pony Club is another good area to get experience but they tend to
    want you to have pretty good basics and have soem riding experience
    before joining.
    
    Good luck!
    
    

    After considering all of your kind and thoughtful inputs, I have
    
    decided that in addition to taking care of our neighbors horse,
    
    we will arrange some sort of riding/handling/caring course for my
    
    daughter. I think that I agree that it would be difficult for an
    
    eight year old to take on such a responsibility. I hope that such
    
    a course will be a good learning experience and enjoyable for her.
    
    Again thanks!!!!!
    
    pat.
    

	I think that buying a horse for your daughter is a very good idea. 
I am thirteen years old and have been riding for 4 years.  (My mom works at
Digital-- that is why I am entering this reply).  About a year ago I
expanded my interest in horses from leasing to asking for a horse of my
own. After 4-5 months of planning budgets and convincing parents, I got my
own horse.  Ever since then things have been going great. The expenses are
divided between my parents and myself, and I handle all of the horsey
stuff, such as grooming, riding, shoeing, etc. Owning a horse has been no
problem to me and I think it would be a great idea for your daughter.  She
may not be very experienced, but neither was I.  I learned more through the
horse, and am now proud to say I taught a green horse everything he knows
now.  You have no idea how much of a difference there is between riding a
horse and owning a horse.  Owning a horse is something everyone should get
to do.  Anyhow, goodluck with whatever choice you make!!! 

       -Bonnie Barnes 

P.S.
As to what kind of pony your daughter should get, I have a few ideas.  A 
slightly older pony might be better for her since an older pony would know 
more and be less of a challenge.  To find such a pony, look in the Equine 
Exchange, the Want Ad (the animal section), or just ask your neighbor's vet 
or blacksmith.

    
    
    I think there is a lot of stereo-typing where girls and horses are
    concerned.  I know it happened in my case.  My parents listened
    to friends regarding what would happen if I had a horse rather
    than knowing me, and what I was capable of or not capable of.
    These were the things that were said and none of them applied to
    me, now, or seventeen years ago.  
    
    1.  That I would not take on the responsibility of taking care of
        the horse.
    2.  That I would not be able to provide for it financially.
    3.  That I would lose interest and my parents would end up having
        to take care of it.
    4.  That the horse would take a back seat to boys.
    
    How simple it would be if ALL girls were like this met the above
    qualifications.  My parents never asked questions concerning any-
    thing my brother may have been interested in getting into.   So
    I assume it was because I'd been stereo-typed and not taken on
    my own merits.
    
    I was thirteen, like the girl in the previous note, and was turned
    down by my parents.  However, I did not let that stop me.  I met
    a family that owned four horses, one a two year old colt that had
    hurt it's owner and a couple of other people.  This colt befriended
    me and though my parents used all the above arguments to convince
    me that I could not afford nor care for him, I had just as reasonable
    an answer to them.   I was told by my parents that they would not
    give me any help taking care of my horse nor financially.  Where
    there's a will, there's a way.  Even a child can find work if
    they've got something worthwhile to work for.
    
    In the end, seventeen years later, I know my horse was more than
    just owning a pet.  It taught me:
    
      1.  Independence at an early age
      2.  Responsibility
      3.  Dedication
      4.  Hard work
      5.  The value of money
      6.  Self-respect
    
    Without my horse, I would not be where I am today.  I had to laugh
    when my in-laws visited my husband and I a couple of weeks ago and
    leaned on the fence admiring my horses.  "Well... " my mother-in-
    law said, "maybe when you get tired of them you can sell them
    and spend your money in other ways."  Many years later I am still
    being stereo-typed as having a passing-fancy about horses after
    going to college, working, marrying and still having my original
    horse that I bought so many years ago.  My parents?  They know
    better now.
    
    

    In response to note 53.10, I just have to say I agree whole heartedly!
    My parents to this day refuse to believe that horses are more than
    a passing fancy.  I now have my Mass Instructors License, own 5
    horses, the list goes on needless to say. My parents let me take
    lessons at age 9, but I didn't get my own horse until I was 15.
    I can't believe to this day my parents still tell me to sell the
    horses, All I can say to them is "what else is there"?  I live,
    breathe and work for my horses!  I just can't imagine what all the
    people do with their time, who don't have horses?
    
    

    Re .11
    
    		AMEN TO THAT!!!!    By the way, what do "normal"
    		people do with all their time anyway??

    
    Okay, vack tro the subject of a first horse or pony.
          I am not what one would call a late bloomer.  I got my first
    horse 9 months ago at the age of 13.  I have been riding since I
    was 10.  I had been leasing a horse for over a year when I changed
    my intersts to getting my own horse.  I looked around for a little
    with a horseperson friend of mine.  The 4th horse we looked at is
    now mine.   But I made a mistake in buying that horse.  When I bought
    him, I didn't know his nature.  Sure, he seemed okay.  But when
    I brought him home, the only thing he knew how to do was gallop!!
     He was also deathly afraid of practically everything!!  You name
    it - plasyic bags, blankets, white fluffy things, white non-fluffy
    things, non-white fluffy things, etc.  The list goes on and on.
     but I was lucky.  After 8 months of hard work, a lot of patience,
    a little firmness, and a lot of love, my horse is now well trained.
     he only thing I can say to you with your horse/pony is : LOOK BEFORE
    YOU LEAP!!!  It also helps to make a list of things you want in
    a horse before going out looking for one.  That way you are less
    likely to be pushed or charned into buying a horse that just isn't
    right for you.  Goodluck!
           			-Best regards,
    						Bonnie Barnes
    

"Good on yer", Linda!! I say get that girl a horse! I wanted one so badly
when I was I kid, I used to cry myself to sleep at night. And last year,
at the age of 35, I was FINALLY able to get myself one. And I'm really
sorry I never had the opportunity to have my own horse then. There is
so much I have to learn, now, I don't think I'll EVER catch up with
people who have had horses for years, no matter how hard I try!!

Yay, horses!!

    I got my first horse at 13.  My brother and I went halfsies on my
    best friend's pony.  We got a $100 loan from my parents and paid
    it back.  I bought some tack from Sears and Sheplars (sp?) and we
    were set!  My brother and I took turns feeding and riding Punkin
    (when we weren't working to support the horse-habit).  Punkin shared
    a pasture with my best friend's new horse so the pasture rent wasn't
    too bad.  Keeping a horse in Oklahoma is relatively cheap.
    
    My parents helped us out with Vet bills when Punkin cut her leg
    up pawing at a barbed wire fence.  Also Dad got to drive us out
    once in awhile to get hay and feed.
    
    A year after we got her, Dad decided to move to Mass. and work for
    Digital.  So we sold Punkin at a slight profit before we moved.
    
    I don't know if an eight year old would be able to handle much
    of the money involved in paying for a horse, but I think it's
    a good idea that she contribute as much as she can (5%?).  If
    she actually goes along to the feed store and pays for supplies
    she'll have a pretty good idea of what it costs to keep a horse.
    
    It sounds like your eight year old can handle the day to day care
    aspect of horses.  I would suggest starting her out on a large pony
    (14.2 hands) so she won't outgrow it too fast.  She should be able
    to saddle it by herself.  Definitely bring along someone who is
    an expert on horses while you are shopping for one.  Reading a
    lot of books on horses helps, but it's no substitute for experience.
    
    Having a pony should teach her responsibility and provide a lot
    of fun.  Let us know what you decide!

    			Barbara b.

    I've just started reading this conference, and I'd love to know
    if you've found your horse yet - or even started looking.
    
    I've always been mad about horses, and I've wanted one of my own
    every since I was about 4 years old.  I've had the occasional ride
    on friends ponies when I was in school, but at the moment my style
    of riding is the "if you stay on you're doing fine" style of riding.
    
    Unfortunately, even tho' I really love horses, I've always been
    scared of them.  But, I've just started having proper lessons at
    a good school, and last week I actually went in to a stable with
    a horse, and nobody else was with me!!  This may sound trivial to
    you - but I'm really proud of myself.
    
    Anyway, back to the point.  The stable where I go riding provides
    working livery for horses.  I would never be able to look after
    a horse myself, and could not afford full livery, so I was quite
    excited when I found out about working livery.  Obviously I could
    not have a horse until I'm a bit more confident and a lot more 
    competent, but I'm hoping that within the year, I'll be able to
    seriously consider getting one.
    
    I expect buying a horse in England is a bit different to buying
    one where you are, but I'd love to know how you get on, and would
    appreciate any advise.
    
    Thanks and GOOD LUCK.
    
    Jessica

    	At 46, I am sure I am the oldest "new" owner to read this file.
    Although I do not now ride any of them, we have 5 critters around
    the farm, and I am expected to be the family resident expert on
    what to do with/for/to them when something goes wrong or even when
    it doesn't. Both my daughter (Kelly - age 15) and my son (Corey
    - age 8) ride and show, and I expect I will be back on a horse again
    within the next year.
    	When we first decided to buy a horse (actually a pony) and stop
    riding whatever was available at the barn where she took lessons,
    I asked advice on what to do. First, read!!! An excellent book on
    what to expect and how to cope with it is "A Horse Around the House"
    (name of author not with me, but most any book or tack store). This
    book is kind of a bible for beginners. Next - take a competent and
    trusted trainer with you whenever you look at a critter. If the
    trainer expects to deal with you for the next few years, and to
    help you solve the problems with the horse, he/she will help you
    pick the best for the money. Expect to pay a little more for the
    horse because trainers make their living in this game, but consder
    the expenditure an investment. Last, consider a lease or trial period
    for the critter. If you can actually try the horse for a while,
    you certainly can better decide if it is the right horse for you.
    This will also get you used to the responsibilities of ownership,
    namely vet bills, farrier bills, board, feed, grooming, clothing,
    transportation, etc, etc etc.
    	Don't get discouraged! If you can share your world with a horse
    and come out still loving them (as we do) you will never find a
    more rewarding experience. If you can teach your children to love
    and care for horses, they will be better for the experience. If
    my daughter is in the barn taking care of a mare in foal, she doesn't
    have time to even think about drugs or common teen-age diversions.
    	If I can offer some first hand advice to anyone in the DEC
    community considering a horse for the first time feel free to contact
    me.
    
    						Ben (201) 735 6665
    

    HI: MY NAME IS GEORGE MORRISON AT NODE COIN::MORRISON
    I HAVE RECENTLY PURCHASED A 400 ACRE FARM IN CANADA.
    MY FAMILY WANTS TO START A "BOARDING/RIDDING" BUSINESS
    ????DO HAVE ANY BOOKS OR SUGGESTIONS TO A COMPLETE NOVICE.
    I WANT TO READ-UP ON THE SUBJECT.
    

    I don't know the "rules of the road" in Canada, but the best advice
    I could give is to talk to people in the business, find yourself
    an attorney who deals with horse-related contracts, and, find a
    competent accountant who also deals with the horse business.  You
    may balk at the initial expense, but, in the long run, these
    professionals will save you money and even lawsuits!!
    
    There are several books on the subject.  A visit to any well-run
    tack shop will be enlightening.  Plus, the shop will probably have
    catalogs from which to order.
    
    I have an Arabian broodmare/foal farm and board horses, too.  My
    boarders sign a contract that release me/my farm from certain
    liability.  Of course, the farm owner must provide a safe environment
    for his horses and boarders.  On my vet's advice, any new horses
    that come to the farm must be inoculated against flu and Rhino within
    two weeks of arriving; otherwise, there's a chance of bringing those
    diseases onto the place and perhaps causing my broodmares to abort.
    
    Good luck!!-------Merrie Aiken
    

	I agree with Merrie. Get some good professional help or you may
discovered your farm has a new owner and you still have the  mortgage.

	I don't know anything about the laws in Canada, but in this country
horse professionals are on hard times. Insurance premiums for a hay ride 
business can be $1800.00 a month or more and that's when one can find 
coverage at all. The only alternative, (going bare) is to risk everything
on every hayride. 

	An attorney knowledgeable in horse activities can help you minimize 
your legal exposure. The accountant can explain to you what your expenses 
really are (versus what you think they are) and help you make some profit
projections. 

	The horse part of my business is much easier than the administrative
part. The expenses in any horse operation tend to be a flat curve. That's
good news when business is good and things are good. It's also bad news when
business is slow. 

	Tyke

    My husband and I decided a long time ago that children who were
    involved with horses didn't have time to get involved with "bad
    things."  Of course, there are exceptions, but not in our case.
    
    Have you considered a pony?  And, I would recommend a pony that
    fits your child now; what's worse than being overhorsed???  Ponies,
    such as Welsh or Welsh/Arab cross, are very easy keepers, i.e.,
    they eat very little.  My Welsh mare eats a scant handfull of sweet
    feed morning and night; more than that, and she gets fat.  When
    I buy grain, I figure that she eats about one-half pound a day;
    that amounts to one 50-lb bag lasting nearly three months @$6.00
    a bag.  (in my case, there are other horses eating from the bag,
    so it has no chance of going bad.)  Generally, you feed hay at the
    rate of 1 lb/100 lbs body weight; a 1,000 lb horse gets 10 lbs hay.
    The Welsh mare gets about 4 lbs. to stay trim and healthy.
    
    The biggest vet bill of the year is spring shots; but it's certainly
    money well spent.  In our area, we give Rabies vaccinations, too.
    
    Ponies usually don't require shoes.  The farrier comes about every
    6 weeks to trim at $12/horse.
    
    About keeping grain...we used to keep each grain sack in a metal
    trash can with lid.  Keeps out vermin and flies and helped it last
    a long time.  Now, with 14 horses on the place, we put the sacks
    in an old freezer chest.
    
    Horses aren't difficult to take care of.  Like someone said earlier,
    you learn a lot from each horse -- about yourself, as well as about
    horses.
    
    p.s.  My parents have finally come around to liking, even talking
    to their horsey friends, about my nice Arab babies.  But, my maiden
    aunt still harps on selling the horses:  "But, Merrie!  Think of
    what you could do if you didn't have horses!"  Right!!!

    YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT KIDS AND THEIR HORSES !!!!! I TRULY
    BELIEVE THAT CHILDREN BROUGHT UP AROUND HORSES, LESSONS, SHOWING,
    ETC. ARE THE MOST MATURE TERRIFIC KIDS OF ALL!!!  I HAVE A STUDENT
    AND A STEP-SON WHO HAVE BOTH HAD REALLY TOUGH THINGS TO OVERCOME
    IN THERE LIVES AND THEY ARE TWO OF THE MOST CARING - SENSITIVE
    WONDERFUL LITTLE PEOPLE I HAVE EVER MET!!!!!!!!!! (PAM IS 17 & BILLY
    IS 11)!!!  I TRULY BELIEVE THAT THERE LOVE FOR HORSES IS WHAT KEPT
    THEM BOTH GOING !!!!
    

    
                             Looking for advice
    
    Hi, I just started to read this note file, and hope someone(s) out
    there can help me.  I am seriously looking to get my own horse,
    but first I want to get the barn  built. At the moment I have access
    to one of my neighbors horses, she's a 15 or 17 year old appy/quarter
    horse, nice animal, and trys to tolerate many of my mistakes (have
    justed started riding again after about 20 years and realize how
    little I know about the correct way to ride.) I ride her on the trails 
    bareback and we are beginning to work well with one another. It has 
    been mentioned that within in a few years they (my neighbors) won't
    have the time to care for all the horses they have at the moment so 
    if I am interested I could take this horse, not to out right own as my 
    own but on a lease bases. As I first time owner, is this a good idea, 
    or should I go out and purchase a younger horse (I have always owned 
    dogs and I would not purchase an older dog, but always a puppy, so 
    I don't have to break someone elses bad habits, does this train of 
    thought apply to horses?)
    
    Also I need suggestions on building a barn. I am considering a 20
    x 30 foot barn with 2 10 x 10 foot stalls on the 30 ft side and
    the balance of that side for tack. Any recommendations on builders
    and/or what to do or not to do in terms of flooring, and convenices
    would be appreciated.
    
    Thanks you can send replies to me @HYSTER::BROWNE
    
    
    
    

    there are a number of notes in this file discussing just the types
    of questions you ask.  Many of these subjects have been written
    about at great length. 
    
    As far as personal advice.  I would always recommend a new rider
    purchase or lease an older or middle aged horse.  These horses can
    teach you a lot.  As far as getting someone else's bad habits, it
    works both ways.  If you can find a horse which has been cared for
    well and trained right you can learn from the horse.  People who
    are new at riding or beginners at training can do a lot of harm
    to a horse, these will result in many of the bad habits you see
    later on.  Don't take a chance on training a young horse until you've
    gained the experience and confidence to do it right, because the
    one who pays in the long run is the horse and there are enough poorly
    trained horses out ther already.  
    
    As far as barns go a number of notes discuss metal vs. wood.  Price,
    functionality and cosmetics are all determining factors.
    
    It sounds like you have a great opportunity to get started with
    horses.  Having a neighbor or friend willing to let you ride and
    learn not only is educational but gives you the chance to determine
    with little or no financial commitment if this is right for you.
    
    Good luck
    Karen
    

    RE: .16
    
    Sounds like you're looking for something a little bigger, but, if
    you want to get a small barn put up quickly, at minimal cost, you
    might be interested in what we recently did.
    
    I built a 12' X 16' barn (two 8 X 12 stalls - we keep the tack in the
    house for now) on a pressure treated frame that sits on top of the
    ground.  I did most of the construction myself  (my wife put up most of
    the siding, and we hired a carpenter to finish up the roof when time ran
    short).  It has a gambrel roof for hay storage overhead.
    
    Total cost was around $1000.  We got most of the structure up in
    a couple of weeks.  If you want any more details, send mail
    (NRADM::BROUILLET).
    
    /Don
    

    Thanks for all the great stories on your first horse.  We had a
    great experience right out of the story "Misty of Chincoteague".
    
    My wife and I have always loved horses.  Mostly, we just looked
    at them, but we rode whenever the opportunity arose.  We were always
    looking for pony rides for our five children and we rode horses
    and ponies of friends and relatives occassionally.  One of my cousins
    who had a couple of horses invited us to ride and told us about
    the wild horses of Maryland and Virginia on Assateague and Chincoteague
    and all the children's stories written by Marguarette Henry about
    horses.  After reading some of these books and camping where these
    wild ponies lived over several summers, my wife booked a summer
    cottage on Chincoteague for "pony penning week".  Each year, in
    July, the Chincoteague Fire Department rounds up all the Virginia
    herd on Assateague and drives them across the bay to Chincoteague
    to auction off the foals and maintain a managable sized herd before
    driving them back a couple of days later.
    
    Well, you guessed it... without anything to go on but love of horses
    and a lot of hope... I lost control at the auction and bought the
    very last foal sold, but from our experience he must have been one
    of the best ones.
    
    That was 1987.  Since then three of our children have begun lessons,
    I have successfully trained "Dusty" in the ring and most of our
    family has had a turn at riding him.  We built a house on 5 acres.
    We bought an eighteen year old saddlebred mare who gets along great
    with all the adults and kids in the family.  And we still love to
    look at and ride horses.
    
    Dusty is almost fourteen hands and is as gentle as a kitten with
    us despite a lively attitude around other horses.  We have had to
    spend many times what he cost on vet bills, feed and board, but
    he has come through his experience with amateurs like us none the
    worse for wear.
    
    We must have read dozens of books on the care and feeding and the
    training of horses... and we still do.
    
    I guess the bottom line is "if you know you really love horses and
    you aren't afraid of a lot of work... and you can afford one...
    just say 'YES'..."

    Reading through these replies, I think the only thing I did correctly
    was ride several horses, yet I couldn't have asked for a nicer friend
    than Red!  Red was the first horse I looked at, a big VERY green
    2yr old off the NJ tracks, though I don't think he was ever raced,
    just trained.  I rode him, then went on to ride 9 or 10 other horses
    before talking with my riding instructor about my choices.  I was
    leaning strongly toward Red, having fallen for a cute face and sweet
    personality, but I was worried because I wasn't a fantastic rider
    - how could I train a horse who didn't even know how to canter??
    My instructor never saw Red, or any of the horses for that matter,
    but talking with her helped me decide.  The final judgement was
    to come from my grandmother, who was buying him for me.  She, too,
    fell in love with him and within a week I had him with me.  I never
    read any books, etc. - I went on gut feelings.  
    
    For a while, I thought I'd made a big mistake - Red would randomly
    take off at a gallop (in an indoor ring!), we did no more than trot
    for the first 3 months to get him balanced, he was lazy (but bombproof)
    and a bit clumsy, and then I graduated from college and had to ride
    around a work schedule while adjusting to the "real world".
    
    If I had to do it all again, the result would probably be the same.
    Red has grown into himself, physically and emotionally.  It's been
    a lot of hard work but I wouldn't trade him for anything! 
    
    Sarah

    Hi to all you fellow horse owners!  There aren't many entires from
    Colorado horse owners so I'll have to put in my two cents about first
    time horse owning/buying.  I grew up owning my own horses and there's
    nothing better than to grow up with a "big buddy".  After a 16 year
    period where it wasn't financially possible to own my own horse I'm
    happy to say that "the drought is over"!  I've purchased a 3 year old
    1/2 Arabian filly, buckskin in color.  Her sire is supposed to be out
    of the Raffles line but as of yet no papers can be found for the sire.
    At any rate this is my first mare, my first Arabian, and my first very
    young horse.  Any comments on how to teach her all the correct social
    graces will be greatly appreciated!  If there are any horse owners in
    the Divide, Colorado area send me mail at csc32::r_hayes because I love
    showing her off.   

        I'm looking to buy a horse and have a few questions.
I have talked to the manager at North Light Farm in Lunenburg
and she said that a quarter horse would be good for me. I see
alot of horses for sale in the want advertiser that are thoroughbreds
that look interesting. I know zip about horses except alittle
riding experience. All I want is to bomb around the woods in a
western saddle. I am 6 feet tall 185 pounds. I don't want a trail
horse like the ones at those places you go to on a Sunday..most
of them seem already dead ! I think what I'm looking for is a 16+
hand 10 year old quarter horse. Does the horse have to be 16+ because
of my height and weight ? Why not a thoroughbred ?
        The horse will be boarded at North Light as I live 100 yards
away. Marguerite says that I will be the only one on western there !
She seems pretty cool ! Should I look for a horse myself or should
I trust her to find something for me ? She wants me to ride on
Saturday so she can see what I'm like.


        -Steve-

 More important than the breed of horse is whether it has been
 ridden a lot, especially on the trails. A 10 (or even 15) year 
 old horse that has been ridden every year would be a good choice
 for you. A horse that has been sitting in a field for the last 5 years
 is not a good choice. Make sure you find out how often the horse was
 ridden, and how. Quarter horses are on the small size, so any that
 are 16h probably have some thoroughbred in their pedigrees, anyway. 
 You may be getting a virtual thoroughbred if you get a 16h quarter 
 horse. (We had a registered 16h quarterhorse that turned out to be
 3/4 thoroughbred in her pedigree.) Marguerite has been in the horse 
 business a long time and since you are boarding there it will be 
 in her best interest to find you a horse that you will be happy 
 with for a long time. Whatever you buy, be sure to have it vetted. 
 Vetting is an inspection by a veterinarian to make sure that the 
 horse is reasonably healthy and sound. Some sellers may be honestly 
 ignorant of problems with the horse.  

    
    Marguite is being very pratical and watching out for your best
    interest in wanting to watch you ride before looking for horse
    for you. She will be looking at a variety of things including -
    
    		how you sit  - meaning is your height in your legs or in
                               your back, are you light or heavy in the
                               saddle
    
    		how comfortable are you
    
    		do you sift your weight around alot or alittle
    
    		do you use alot of rein or a little
    
    and many other things. She will try to size up your temperament as well
    as your abilities. Finding you a horse that goes with your temper and
    atitudes is as important as finding one of the right size.
    
    A talking about size - height is one half of the situation, body build
    is the other half. Quarter horses tend to have a heavy or huskier build
    then thoroughbreds. This rounder, wider body can `take up' your leg. 
    A tall thoroughbred may not fit you as well as a tall quarter horse or
    vis versa.
    
    I don't know the North Light farm personally but I'm sure others in
    this conference can (and will) give you their opinions. Horse buying is 
    a risky business whether you know zip or have years of experience.
    Once you have picked an expert, I think you should follow that experts
    advice. 
    
    Good luck! I believe you will find the pleasures of riding are worth
    the expense and the risk.
    
    Nancy
    

    Base your decision on the individual horse, not the breed, color,
    sex, or even age (although I'd shy away from anything under 3 or
    over 20). Thoroughbreds are wonderful horses, with a wide variety
    of temperments, as are all breeds. I have a 16.1 hh TB who is a
    super trail horse. He's 10 years old, and is just a quiet horse
    all around. Very nice guy. My neighbors have a 7 year old TB mare
    who is borderline uncontrollable on trails, very spooky. This type
    of variation happens in all breeds. 
    
    What you need is a sound ( I agree absolutely with having a vet check!)
    and sane horse. Period. The less experience *you* have, the more
    experience your first horse should have. Defineatly allow an
    experienced horse person to help you choose. Do not do yourself
    the disservice of being swayed by breed predjudices. If there is no
    hurry to enter into ownership, consider leasing first. That way
    you get a taste for what having a horse in your life is all about,
    and if it's not for you you can return the horse to the owner with
    a minimum of investment on your part. Take lessons, read books,
    and give yourself plenty of time to make a decision. Owning a horse
    is wonderful, but it's a lot of responsibility. You're very wise
    to be asking advise! Good luck!

    
    
    	Quarter Horses are great, but walking horses are better. (bias
    option..) I have owned both .. Ginger was 15.3 and 1500 pds. She 
    could hold a  250 pd man with the height of about 6'6.  
    
    Lady is about 15'2 and very peite my husband rides her and he
    is aroun 185 about 5'8.  He looks fine on her. 
    
    	Tennessee Walker are smooth they come in every size & temperment
    	
    	Quarter Horses trott.. Tennessee Walker only walks fast. never
    	a bounce in the gate.
    
    	My husband has tried both and since he was a novice he had 
    	no prejudgements in ethier breed but, likes the walker better.
    
    	My father says walkers are great because they don't bounce the
    	jewels around...
    
    Best of luck find the right one -... Always Always put a vet check
    on the bill of sale.  Alot of people will try to slide by this.
    
    Donna Fultz
    
    

>    What you need is a sound ( I agree absolutely with having a vet check!)
>    and sane horse. Period. The less experience *you* have, the more
 
	HERE, HERE!!!

	Often times the best horse for the job of the Heinz 57 breeding 
(unknown).  people may say 'He's QH/TB/whatever".  If they can't prove the 
heritage (with papers), they're Heinz 57, in my book.  

	Marguerite is probably trying to assess your riding abilities *before*
you end up with a horse you can't control.

    Watch out for unpapered horses - aka the heinzy (ref: .43).  An
    unscrouplous seller may try to pass off an older horse, or horse
    of unknown lineage, as something it's not.  A girl at my barn thought
    she bought a 6 yr old, when the vet said he teeth make him look like
    he's in his early teens.   This is a problem with her because she
    wanted a young horse.  Hopefully this person will help you avoid
    this problem.
    
    My first two horses were of the heinzy variety, and they were great,
    and I'd probably buy another.
    
    
    	Good luck....I always hated buying horses.

>    Watch out for unpapered horses - aka the heinzy (ref: .43).  An
>    unscrouplous seller may try to pass off an older horse, or horse
>    of unknown lineage, as something it's not.  A girl at my barn thought
>    she bought a 6 yr old, when the vet said he teeth make him look like
>    he's in his early teens.   This is a problem with her because she
>    wanted a young horse.  Hopefully this person will help you avoid
>    this problem.
 

	This is part of why you want a pre-purchase vet exam.

also, if the seller says the horse is papered, ask to see the papers, and 
*read* them to be sure the horse they are selling matches the description of
the horse described on the papers.  

If you buy a papered horse, be sure you get the papers when you get the bill of
sale, along with a transfer of ownership form.

    RE. That last story about the girl who bought a much older horse than
        she's been told...
    
    	All the more reason for a *pre* purchase vet check...., and an
    	experienced horse person with nothing to lose/gain from the
    	situation helping you choose. There are far too many horror
    	stories out there such as that.
    

    re. last
    
    That happened to my , My parents bought me a horse from a horse
    trainer, I fact my dad worked with one of the co-owners of the barn 
    (my dad was in the service) anyway he trusted him and "CIndy was a Xmas
    present. My parents knew nothing about horses. We found out later 
    (2 yrs later) that instead of 6 she was 23! and she could run barrels!
    anyways she still gave me tons of fun , and 4 years later she was sold 
    to teach the handicapped children.. (she was a babysitter too, but she
    never let on to me :*) )
    
    	wendy o'
     

    
    Since I am also 6' and 185, I can tell you for a fact that you do 
    not *NEED* a 16 hand horse, especially if you are going to ride
    western.
    
    A 15 hand horse with substance (e.g. Quarterhorse, Morgan, Welsh Cob)
    may be a better match for you. In fact, I once trained a 14.1 hand 
    Morgan mare that carried me as well as the 16.1 hand Thoroughbred I had
    worked a year or two before. Yes, I looked a little funny on her 
    because my stirrups were below her belly but she sure had the strength
    to carry me!
    
    A western saddle is supposed to distribute the riders weight over a
    broader area of horse's back. So, size is even less critical than if
    you were to ride in an English saddle like I do.
    
    Like others have said, get a sound, sane horse that suits you and don't
    worry about size, color, sex or whatever. But DO have the horse checked
    by a vet of *YOUR* choice, not the current owner's vet. Be a little
    paranoid because there are unethical people in this world.
    
    John

    My most important comment to you is:
    
    Take your time!!!!  Don't be in such a hurry that you
    might make a decision that you could regret later.
    When I was looking for a horse, I ran into many sellers
    who were *not honest*, to put it politely.....
    Vet checks get expensive, but the mere mention of one saved
    me from a $2500 mistake.
    By all means, get a quarter horse (bias here, I have a
    16 hd QH gelding (-8 )!!!   I know everyone says that
    size isn't important, (and it's not....I have a 14.3
    gelding that carries me well) but there is no reason
    for you not to get yourself a large horse, if that is
    what you prefer.  I like my horses big, but, that's my 
    preference.  If a small horse makes you *feel* like you
    are too big for it, then by all means, get a bigger one.
    What is most important, is that you get a horse that you
    feel comfotable with, and that will do what you are looking
    for....(trailriding, jumping,  etc...)
    
    Good luck!
    
    
    

	Well, after looking at about 20 horses this weekend I found one that
seems to suite me. He is a Gelding quarter horse 15.2 and 10 years old. He 
has papers and came from Texas as a previous rodeo horse. He is very responsive
to neck reigning and very quick to take off in a moments notice. This is the
first time I have seen a horse jog. I think that's what it's called, in between
a walk and a canter. The Vet is checking it out today and if everything checks
out we will be bringing him to his new home at North Light Farm in Lunenburg.
	From what I understand I will be the only one in the barn that has a 
Western horse strictly for the trails ! 
	Some of the horses I tried were either too panic stricken or just plain
dead ! I tried a couple Thoroughbreds, 1 palomino, and many quarter horses. I
even tried out one horse that could count !


	-Steve-