Conference noted::bicycle

    Hey, well done chip!

What Chip said -- I probably saw you without knowing it!  I was in exactly the
same boat and got spit out at exactly the same point.  There were at least three
ambulance trips out of the base during the second running (M45, W4, W3, P123).

The field limit was 125.  And that 90 degree corner was really two 90 degree
corners in a row.  Something which is definitely advisable to be near the front
for.

It ROYALLY ANNOYS me that 50 guys can go zinging past me over the line with
NOTHING said.  The official was right there in the car and they rolled back into
the field to bunch them over.  By then, it was too late and I was too far back.

Like Chip, I put safety and rules first and it cost me.  Chip, that wasn't you
in on the Colnago in that group of 8 or so, was it?

Tim

    >>  The Peerless has a 45+ group that will be riding with the 
    >>  he Women's 1/2 group. That should be interesting :-)
    
    Is this the annual Bobby Riggs/Billy Jean King road race? ;-)
    
    I may enter the 5/public event for my annual ... what the hell am
    I doing here race.  Its a great course.  My goal would be to make
    it up the first hill and stay with the pack.
    
    -Larry

    Nope, Tim. I'm on the Merlin (with all the decals either gone or
    unreadable).
    
    We definitely had enough riders to split the 4s and 5s into their own
    groups.
    
    I very (VERY) rarely violate the yellow line. Especially prior to the
    last few limes or to avoid an accident. These guys were doing it
    from the very start. It's not fair and when the officials ignore it
    they'll not realize they help promote it (when they're forced to make
    the calls). 
    
    All in all, it was fun to be back.
    
    Larry, if I do see Bobby Riggs there I'm gonna find out where the
    action is. That race is a 55 miler. Those 1/2 women are going to
    burn it down, I'm sure.
    
    Chip

    >> Larry, if I do see Bobby Riggs there I'm gonna find out where the
    >> action is. That race is a 55 miler. Those 1/2 women are going to
    >> burn it up.
    
    If you see Bobby you may have OD'ed on cytomax.  He's making his bets
    in heaven these days...    
    
    anyway.... I dont really race but I do love this course. There are 
    very few races open to the public and fewer still that are this 
    challenging ... read plenty of sizable climbs AND it is not a
    criterium so its not as life threatening (to me).  A great ride
    in a beautiful area.
    
    ... oh. I did not mean to be sexest in anyway but could not resist when
    I saw the category.  Hey, when I reach the ripe young age of 45 you can be
    sure I will not be challenging the 1/2 women! 
    
    Good Luck there,
    -L

I've never seen 1/2 women.  Where is the other half?  Must be riding around with
that extra fifth from those 4/5 men's races.

Ok, that was bad, I agree.  So in a 1/2/3 race, there must be one sixth men in
it, right?

It's an interesting year for promoters.  Last year, they had the New England
Women's Cat IV challenge, to encourage new women racers.  They typically ran
1/2/3 women together and then 4 seperate (or they'd run them all together and
give them seperate finishes.)  This year, there is a women's 3 series on top of
the women's 4 series.  I think this hampers the cat 1 and cat 2 women. 
Basically, they have to enter the men's 1/2/3 race (Cat 2 women can ride in a
men's 3 field.)  I'm not sure I want to ever be a 3.  Then most races I would
have to race against 1s and 2s.  There were 2 or 3 women (1s and 2s) in the
men's 1/2/3 field yesterday.  All this on top of the 1-day hassle.  I think it
will be gone next year.

Tim

Chip,

I knew you had a Merlin.  I thought maybe you had the Colnago too.  There was a
guy in the break (off the back break, that is!) with me that was about the right
age.

Tim

    I don't expect to hang with the -> 1-2 <- women for very long. On top
    of that it's fo a 55 miler. I've seen these women go at the Longsjo
    and they are fast. 
    
    They're probably putting us old freds in with them because they know
    we'll be out of it from the start and won't interfere with the rest of
    their race :-).
    
    It is a nice area. I did back to back centuries a couple years ago and
    our return route was part of the course through the Walpole area.
    
    I would go public, but you guys are just too young for me.
    
    Nope Tim, I've never owned an Italian frame. I still have my Fuji
    beater (permanently attached - it seems - to my trainer) the Y22 and my
    Merlin. Anymore more bikes and my wife has threatened to put a swimming
    pool in the back yard :-).
    
    Chip

>   I don't expect to hang with the -> 1-2 <- women for very long. On top

Oh great, there are already so few women in the sport and now you're talking
about minus women ;-)  Clearly, they are hanging with all the 4-5 minus men.

Enough, even for me!

    Well, hanging with them could get me in trouble given the fact that I
    am a married man.
    
    Maybe I should just race with them and leave the fraternization to the
    single guys.
    
    Chip

    I'll volunteer...

It's not the men that we need to get volunteering.  The sport needs to attract
more women.  And the male racers, from what I have witnessed, are not helping
the cause all that much!

    Seriously...
    
    I dunno what it's like over there but in the UK it is my experience
    that the cycle-racing community do not care.  Cycle racing is one of
    these hard macho things and they make no attempt to soften it.  As an
    outsider trying to join a club years ago I (as a bloke) met the same
    sort of testosterone soaked attitude.  So I gave up racing a took up
    touring...

    Rod, we have the same kind of racers over here. I can't say it's
    pervasive, however. I met many great people and made friends through
    the sport. There is t-h-a-t group with the attitude and the god-like
    projection that really turns my stomach. I just walk away whenever I
    can without saying a word.
    
    Chip

>>    I dunno what it's like over there but in the UK it is my experience
>>    that the cycle-racing community do not care.  Cycle racing is one of
>>    these hard macho things and they make no attempt to soften it.  As an

The cycle racing community has always been that way here in the US, at least
back to the early 1970's when I raced.  It's very competitive.  

The trend that I can't understand is the touring is becoming competive as well.
I remember doing 50-75 mile rides in the 1970's and 80's where there were a
few 'hotdogs', but most people enjoyed a leisurly ride.  Even though we were
20-something men with powerful legs and high endurance, we rode with women,
teens, and older riders.  We talked as we rode and we stopped frequently to
enjoy the scenery, buy a soda at a local store, or enjoy a snack.  It became an
all-day event that usually ended in a bonfire, cookout and exchange of stories.
I met many fine people of all abilities on those rides. This attitude also 
helped encourage some of the younger and weaker riders to continue with the
sport and become better riders.  Today, these centuries and longer rides are
almost races against the clock and against other riders.  

Jim 

    good points Jim.  Having ridden in many charity bike rides I would
    agree.  There is a broad spectrum of riders in these events many of
    them competitive.  Which gets back to my point that there are not many
    public events for these pseudo competitive soles so a charity ride/tour
    is one place to use up that excess testosterone.
    I probably fit in to this category.  As my friends will tell you I'm
    just a little competitive.  When I show up at a real race (once) however I
    feel out of place.  Is it me or the attitude projected by the event
    organizers and the other racers?   I dont think its me.
    I always try to use the running races as an anology but maybe thats
    not fair.  In a running race the broad spectrum shows up.  The stronger
    more competitive runners are at the front.  The others are showing up
    just to improve their times, compete against themselves and participate
    in an event they love with others who feel the same.  Cant do that in a
    bike race.  I submit that bike road racing in this country will never
    be popular until this can happen.  
    
    -Larry

Larry is correct.  I've though about having graduated starts.  I.e., the people
with the best previous results get the start line and first-timers get the back
row.  My thought was, they'll be off the back in 15 seconds anyway.  They are a
safety hazzard.  That attitude doesn't really encourage anyone, however.  But it
does work for running races.

Running is definitely more an individual competition.  There are no teams, no
drafting, no chasing, no cooperation.  Basically, no tactics.  Cost is that of
running shoes, shorts, sock and a T-shirt (which you can always use the freebie
from your last race anyway).   Bike racing is going to cost a minimum of 10
times that to get started.  There are far fewer bike races and so you must
travel, again incurring expenses.  

I am racing for Charter Systems/Wheelworks/NEBC (Northeast Bicycle Club) this
year.  They are "a developmental club", i.e., mostly 4s and 5s.  As a club goes,
they are a great bunch of friendly, outgoing, helpful people.  There are a lot
of women members.  1/3 of the women's 4 field at Otis were NEBCers.  They do a
lot to encourage and train new riders and new racers.  There are lots of folks
on the Sat/Sun training rides who don't race and who ride at the casual,
conversational pace.

Bicycle racing is a fringe sport and draws people with some $ to burn.  Until
that changes, it won't ever have mass appeal.  Greg Lemond and Lance Armstrong
are not as well-recognized as Shaq, Roger Clemens, Drew Bledsoe, and Mario
Lemieux.  There is no "JV bike racing team".

Blame the USCF... They are only interested in the elite.  They need to draw more
athletes to find more elite cyclists.

Tim

Back in the 1970's they had open races where you didn't need a license or even
a helmet to race. You paid your $5 entry fee and went to the starting line. 
Now it takes licenses, gear, etc to race. I even raced in cutoff jeans and my
old sleeveless high school track jersey.  Larry had a good point in that the
amateur beginners are using the touring rides as races.  It sounds like we need
to go back to the open amateur races, but liability will never let us go back.
I don't know the answer. 

Jim 

    You all make good points. There is a ubiquitous absence of public races
    now. Even when I started out only 7 years ago (racing) I could easily
    do 10-12 public races in Ma. Now you're lucky to be able to find 1-2 an
    entire season.
    
    The USCF and NORBA DO NOT fulfill a critical need if there is any
    intent on growing the sport. Even local clubs, bike shops and the
    communities themselves would need to get very serious and organize
    grass roots programs for kids. If the structure that exists in other
    sports today like T-Ball, Little League, soccer, football, swimming,
    etc. aren't in place to offer opportunity, generate interest and 
    build a foundation for the younger kids, the sport will remain in its
    current state and will remain a "fringe" sport, as stated by Tim.
    
    Also, it has its inherent problems that were mentioned... It's
    expensive and you need to travel a little. This requires money
    (obviously) and dedicated parenting as well. 
    
    I have to assume that liability has played a role in the disappearing
    public races syndrome. I fully support riders having the appropriate 
    equipment. I can't fault the organizers for this. They are responsible
    for putting on a safe, organized and fruitful event.
    
    For a sport that was extremely popular and having the U.S. recognized
    as the most active and at a world class level the turn of the century
    it sure has evaporated. I wonder why?
    
    BTW, you have to give Lance Armstrong a lot of credit for trying to
    provide a great deal of programs and events for juniors. Not something
    you see often from a guy who is a youngster himself.
    
    Chip
    

>    The USCF and NORBA DO NOT fulfill a critical need if there is any
>    intent on growing the sport. Even local clubs, bike shops and the
>    communities themselves would need to get very serious and organize
>    grass roots programs for kids. If the structure that exists in other

This is the single largest complaint you will hear about USA Cycling.  They,
until recently, were chartered mainly to foster the elite cycling interests of
the country, and the '96 Olympics (where we did OH-SO-WELL).

They have recently turned the tables in terms of a charter, where the grass
roots level is more important.  Maybe they'll realize if they get more people
into the sport, they'll have a larger pool of talent to pick from and therefore
a larger pool of elite talent.

The grass roots business has largely been left up to the clubs.  NEBC is running
a grass crit for kids (URL below) on June 14.  Everyone is giving  Hein
Verbruggen (UCI president) grief for moving things backwards in terms of
equipment, but...  Heck, little leauge has rules about what kind of bats can be
used, right?  Cycling is a high-tech sport with a great trickle-down effect. 
While the technology gets more affordable, the cumulative costs are still too
prohibitive.

For details on the grass crit, see

http://world.std.com/~nebikclb/RaceEvents/belmont_kids_grasstrack97.html


or send me mail!  Your kids are welcome and encougraged to come!

Tim

>>used, right?  Cycling is a high-tech sport with a great trickle-down effect. 
>>While the technology gets more affordable, the cumulative costs are still too
>>prohibitive.

I would tend to disagree somewhat with this statement.  Cycling certainly
*can* be a very expensive sport based on high tech gear, but it doesn't have to
be.  I saw a nice road bike in the current Nashbar catalog for $399.  Granted,
it was not a name brand, and it certainly didn't have the best components on
it. But, it was sub-22 pounds which makes it a nice entry bike for a racing
beginner.  

When I was younger, I raced my $300 Fuji Finest against $2000 custom Masi's and
other full Campy equipped bikes and I did pretty well in the amateur division.
I won 6 races in a row in the University of South Florida Bicycle Olympics in
the summer of 1973. I even did my first 50 mile road race before that on my
1968 Raleigh Grand Prix complete with steel wheels and a $7 Simplex low-end
derailleur.  I was in the front pack of 8 riders (out of 200) at around the 20
mile mark when I sheared the cluster off the rear hub and had to leave the
race. 

Better technology, however, can help a rider as she/he moves up to the higher
levels of competition.  Hopefully by that point, the rider is a little older
and can afford the more expensive equipment. 

Jim 

    1973 was along time ago, Jim. I won't argue that the motor is a very
    important part of performance. However, technology has most certainly
    established itself as a win or lose factor.
    
    The $399.00 only cover the bicycle. Obviously, additional costs
    clothing, helmet, tools, spare stuff, shoes, etc. Then we can add
    traveling and registration fees (averaging $15.00 - $20.00 a pop).
    
    We're talking some serious ching now for a lot of adult folks
    nevermind the parents of juniors.
    
    There is now a large gap between casual racing and serious racing. This
    includes racers as a whole.
    
    Chip 

Even the most casual bike racer will spend MANY TIMES MORE on equipment then the
casual softball/baseball player.

Any semi-serious junior bike racer will be out thousands of dollars over a 4-5
year junior career (say 13-18) (then they become "espoires" or "under 23") as
opposed to a serious high-school baseball player might go through $400 in the
same period, assuming they grow, and need new cleats, and longer bats, and a new
glove, etc.

In this day of "gotta have it" most kids are not going to race on really low-end
stuff.  It's got to have some flare and coolness factor or they simply won't do
it.

Sure, the engine is 80% of the deal.  Bet you are really bummed about snapping
off that cluster, eh?

The barest adult entry-level racing bike is going to go for $800, with cheap
clipless pedals, a tripple and 7speed RSX STI shifters.  The comes shoes, a
helmet, shorts, tubes, tires, pumps, gloves, jerseys, ...

FWIW, I looked in Quicken the other day and was surprised to find out just how
much I'd spent in the last year.  Of course, it includes my new Serotta, and the
fixed-gear I had built up (they account for about half).  It was about $4500.


Tim

    Clearly Tim, you have been napping. Get out there and spend some real
    money! :-)
    
    Chip

I suppose I could get a polished Merlin extra light w/ 9sp D/A for the fold...
;-)  That ought to run me close to another $4K.

It's the engine after all.  Curt Davis got 2nd at the Otis p123 race and was in
the winning break at the Palmer Crit on sat. (didn't stay to watch the end) and
he has a Cannondale.

    And don't forget, I won't let you, that Greg Lemond trained on a HUFFY.

    There was also a U.S. based team that had "HUFFYs" (can't remember the
    name off hand).
    
    Wanna bet that wasn't a HUFFY under those decals and paint?
                   ^^^^^^
    
    Chip

They were Serottas, weren't they?  I know Serotta was the official 7-Eleven team
bike.  Maybe I am confused by this fact.  They most certainly WERE NOT huffy's. 
This is a well-known trick at the pro ranks.  As much as it bothers some folks,
it appears that Saeco-Cannondale and super-sprinter Mario Cippolini are riding
actual Cannondales, although they are not stock bikes (you & I couldn't get
them) but they do have head shocks.

    Yes Tim, that's the team. We went to New York a few years back to watch
    the Tour Dupont (circuit) at Central Park. We were milling around the
    team area and got some really close looks at the equipment (including
    the - then - proto Dura Ace STIs. 
    
    We all got a laugh at the Huffy decals on the 7-Eleven machines.
    
    Chip