Conference noted::bicycle

    That's great news!!! Gotta start training, gotta start training, gotta
    start training, gotta start training....................
    
    

RE .0:

Yes, I heard it on the radio the other day.  Moved up a couple weeks.

--Roger

    Well maybe I'll be able to meet my goal for 1996 ... ride to the
    top of that $%###!! mountain ... 0 for 2 so far.
    -Larry

    I got a letter from Tin Mountain confirming .-1 
    The letter also implied that they were going to insist that
    participants collect at least $100 in donations.
    -Larry

    Is the letter the application or just a notice?
    
    A hundred bucks eh? The cretins! What the heck is turning into, the
    Pan Mass Challenge?
    
    A hundred bucks is an awful lot of money to ask everyone to collect
    unless they will forego the application fee/donation.
    
    Don't like it. Don't like it one bit (if that's the implication).
    
    Chip

Who is receiving the 'donation'?

--Roger

    The Tin Mountain Conservancy is the group that sponsors and
    administrates the event.
    
    They are a landmanagement/protection group.
    
    Chip

    Another piece of that letter -- the event starts at 7:00AM.
    
    And there's *still* the possibility that the event won't happen because 
    of weather:  It's only three weeks earlier, and this is Mt. Washington.
    
    So this time if they cancel, you're in the hole for $100.
    
    I'm not sure it's worth it.
    
    Justin

re .5  ...turning into The Pan-Mass Challenge....

No. The Pan-Mass Challenge is a fundraiser that happens to be a 
bike ride.

Then again, I'm bias.

Tim Brightman,  PMC rider since 1988.....

    The letter was not for registration.  The letter did say that 
    the folks who attempted to ride the last few years would get 
    priority over others ... if they mailed their registrations in
    by the end of May.  I presume we should get the registration
    forms before that.
    
    I dont know for sure if they are going to require the $100 in donations
    for sure.  The letter did imply it though.  Someone should call them
    up to verify this.   BTW they expect the $100 to come from donations
    you collect from others ... something I feel very uncomfortable doing.
    I would not enter if I had to cough up more than the registration fee
    which I think was $40 last year.
    
    -Larry

    well Tim, the Mt Washington Hillclimb is also a fundraiser that happens
    to be a bike race, pure and simple.
    
    i got my letter yesterday. i am disappointed that they took this
    direction. Seems thay could have upped the registration. they still
    didn't provide the detail as to whether there would still be an
    application fee. i hope not. that just might sway my decision to
    the "no-show" side of the fence.
    
    Justin buddy! where ya been? I pick up my road horse today all tuned
    and ready for the season. hope things are well with you.
    
    Larry, the general rule has always been that veteran riders get
    preferred treatment. hell, i forget to send the check with my
    application last year. they sent me my stuff, number, and tickets with
    a note and asked to send the check when i got around to it...
    
    Chip

    I guess the memory is the first thing to go eh chip ?
    
    [Maybe I'll send that along to young Graham:-]

    oh please, please don't let on to Graham. i'm a dead man if you do!
    
    i should him off a note. i haven't written for a while. anyone know how
    he's going.

    Last I heard he was doing well.  He said (back in jan):
    
    >Oh, I've got cable again, so get to see the cycling once more. Which
    >reminds me, pass on my regards to all the noters.

    I just received my registration form.  Before I submitted this note 
    I called Tin Mountain up to clarify some points.
    
    The Race is schedule for Aug 24 with a rain/snow/sleet date of Aug 25.
    Riders are supposed to line up at 7am.  Vehicle pass distributions 
    is 5:30-6:30 a.m.  .... I think thats earlier than last year but with
    all the delays I cant remember.
    
    Now for the bad news:  Registration is $100...  ouch!.  
    The pointed I needed clarification on is whether this gets refunded if
    you collect $100 later as they ask or is the $100 in addition?
    They said they just want $100.  If you can collect the $100 before
    you register they will be happy.   The riders who were there last
    year have a guaranteed spot until the end of May.  So they can 
    collect first and send in the money for their registration.
    Otherwise you will have to fork out the $100 and have the donors
    make their checks out to you in order to get your money back.
    I pointed out that this was highly unusual.
    
    Sigh,  nothing is ever easy is it.
    
    -Larry

I received mine as well. I wrote out the check and mailed it in 
on Saturday.

I will simply rely on the kindness of strangers, co-workers, and
family. Hey, even if I can scrounge up $50.00 at least it helps
defray a part of it. 

That start time is very early. My guess is that the start time change 
had a lot to do with the owners of the Auto Road. The new dates are
more into the tourist season and I'm sure he wants to open the road
to customers at a reasonable time.

I always travel up there the day before (4.5 hour ride) and stay in 
Gorham. The start time makes that mandatory for me now.

Also, I'll bet that a lot of riders that used to do this race on a
regular basis will bow out. I would expect the filed to change
somewhat (faces).

Well, I'm looking forward to it as usual.

Chip

I will be up at Mt. Washington as usual. If there is anyone who is going
and needs a ride down I have a vehicle and a driver. I should be able to
take down two riders (at the most).

If you are in need of a ride down let me know.

Chip

    If anyone is interested in entering the race I know someone who has
    entered and can not go.  Give me a call or send me mail if interested.
    -Larry Cohen
     wasted::larry
     dtn 381-0345

Make sure the individual plays the role of this person. The organizers
frown on substitions.

Chip

    I know there is a topic way back on gearing, but what is the current 
    approach folks are using.  I'm really asking in terms of
    implementation.  Is it feasably to swap a three ring crank onto a
    standard road set up?  If so do you just disable the the front derailer
    and run in the small ring?  Is it easier to just use big cogs on the
    back?  Seems that 26 or so is the max that most road groups are speced
    for.  
    
    I would love to do this race some year.  I have run it 5 times and
    would like to try for the "double".  I should have done it this year
    since a shin injury is keeping me from a fall marathon and all I am
    doing at this point is riding.
    
    Thanks for any advise you can give and good luck to all who are going
    up.  I hope the weather is good!
    
    Bob

    re .-2:  My friend has gotten in on cancellations twice and both times
    the organizers had no problem and he went in on his own name.  
    
    re .-1:  In general you can not switch a triple front for a double without
    putting in a longer bottom bracket.  I thought I read that Chip was
    able to put a 38 on the front and something pretty large on the rear...
    30?   Thats not bad if you are a strong rider.  I'd want one more gear
    for me (at least!).  I will try some experimenting this weekend and see
    what I can do on my good bike.  Otherwise I'll use my touring bike
    which is equiped with a triple ... but a few pounds heavier I'm sure.
    
    The most common modification that I see to road bikes is a crankarm
    with one ring that looks to be about a 34 tooth.  Not sure if its a
    triple arm with one ring on or something else.
    
    -Larry

    Just a few ramblings on the upcoming road race.
    First it was very interesting reading the older notes on the race. 
    There is an excellent tradition of representation from us DECies. I
    hope some real racers (besides Chip :-) show up to keep the tradition 
    going.  
    
    My personal and probably unrealistic goal is to make it up in 90
    minutes.   Besides training with the lunchtime crew on some fast 20
    to 30 mile rides,  I have been trying to get a steady diet of loops up
    Miller state park.   I have rode Mt. Washington before they closed it
    and did not make it without stopping ... so the minimum goal is to do
    that at least.. not stop!  I think I will if my aging back holds up.
    Anyway I'll continue to do my Pack loops this weekend and maybe one
    more during the week.
    
    I would really like to ride my carbon bike up but will only do it if I
    can get something easier than a 39x26 on it.   I can do loops on the
    Pack with that but I can easily see myself losing traction on
    Washington.   I hope I can pop a triple on as I dont think I can do
    much else with my Ultegra setup (can I?).
    
    Chip.  Good luck to you.  More importantly lets hope they let us go
    off.
    
    -Larry

re the last few

I believe in triples (No, Robin - tell me something new!) ...  If you have 
Campag or Shimano, you can get an intermediate (middle) ring from TA or 
Stronglight which can have a small third ring attached to it.  The whole 
assembly replaces the original inner ring on a double.  If you use something 
as small as 32, you can often get away with not changing the axle - you can 
always slip a spacer in behind the fixed cup (use the ones which are sold for 
the fixed cog on a track bike).  The rear mech will also handle it 
providing you don't expect too much (ie: all 8 cogs on all 3 rings!!!)  What 
you will have problems with most likely is finding a front changer which will 
drop onto this innermost ring, but the old Sun Tours will manage it as will 
the newer Campag triples.

Now, I doubt whether it is worth it for just one event, but I for one would 
always prefer 30 x 23 to 39 x 28, the mechs just can't handle the big steps 
on the teeth, not to mention my legs.

On Wednesday, I did 190km over the Cayolle (2350m), the Allos (2250m) and the 
Ste-Michelle (1650m) - I'm not saying this is normal riding for everyone, but 
it is for me.  I was glad of 30/38/50 on the front and 14,15,16,17,19,21,24 on 
the back on my old sportif machine.  The new one uses 30/40/50 but starts at 
13 - I like this better because I can find a gear around 75" (40 x 14) when I 
need it. A mon avis, the extra weight involved in carrying the third ring 
around is only an extra piece of toast in the morning. 

    (From the Ride, August 1996)
    
    Seeking Racers for Study
    Dear Editor,
    I am a graduate student studying exercise physilogy at the University
    of Massachusetts and one of my interests is bicycle racing.
    With the persmission of the race director I would like to solicit
    participants from Mount Washington Hill Climb to take part in a
    reasearch project.  My goal is to objectively quantify the factors
    related to performance in the hill climb, specifically examining the
    importance of body mass.
    To participate in the study the volunteers would have to, first,
    complete the race; second, complete a questionnaire asking about the
    amount of training volume they do; and third, perform a series of
    labratory tests (lasting a total of one hour) in the Human Performance
    Lab at the Univerisity of Massachusetts.  the laboratory testing would
    take place in the weeks following the race.
    As a result of this testing the participants would receive informaiton
    about their VO2max, lactate threshold, maximum heart rate, estimate of
    percentage body fat, maximum power output and power output at lactate
    threshold.  Thank you.
    
    	Edward P. Debold.
    	[email protected]

I have a Sachs New Success on my rear and have used a 32 with it. It's not
spec'd for it but it works.

    Last weekend I tried putting a mountain bike triple on my road bike
    with interesting but unsucessful results.  First the triple did go on
    without the inner ring rubbing the against the bike.  That was the good
    news.  The bad news was the crank was so far away from the bike that
    the chain would shift off the front middle ring to the small ring by 
    itself.   My guess is that a modern road bike triple like the shimano 105
    would not be pushed out as far (but farther than the old style triples)
    and would work fine without the need for a longer bottom bracket.
    So it looks like its my trek touring bike for me.. and thats ok. 
    
    -Larry

Hi,

This is just a little warning to Larry. Larry, you were looking to change your
saddle to a lighter model in an effort to save weight and increase your time up
Mt. Washington. If you were joking then please disregard. (Being an overly
earnest person I tend to be thick in the head with respect to "getting the joke"
sometimes.)

Anyway, personally I would strongly recommend that you not change your saddle
this late in the game. It will change your riding position and you could very
likely regret doing it. Better to make changes like this when you have a long
time to get used to it.

It is usually difficult to change a saddle and still have the same riding
position after doing so, no matter how carefully you measure. Even if you can
get the saddle height exactly right it is very difficult to account for things
like saddle flex which can effectively increase or decrease your seat height.
Further, the shape of the saddle can tend to push you  more far ward or back so
getting fore-aft position right also takes time. Lastly you don't know how
comfortable you will find the new saddle. Halfway up Mt. Washington with 4 more
miles of 12+ percent road ahead is not the place to find out your saddle is
killing you.

Karol

    hmmm.  All good points.   
    I did try a selle flight titanium I was able to borrow  
    (thanks Buddy!).  To my surprise It actually felt good.  I liked it
    enough to consider buying one (forgive me all you leather codgers!). I
    have a couple of rides to go to work out any kinks.  I had no problem
    doing loops up the pack with it and my posterior feels fine today
    sooooooo.  I think I'll risk it.
    -Larry

My wife is getting cold feet about driving up the
mountain. She told me she would do it if she had
to, but asked if I would see if I could either
get a ride down from someone else or get someone
to go and drive my truck.

So, is there anyone in here that has room or 
would like to drive. Driving means free passage
to the summit.

Of course, if Saturday doesn't work out, we'll
be staying for a possible Sunday climb.

My plans are to leave my house around 10:00-ish
on Friday and plan on getting to my motel around 
2:30 - 3:00. Of course, the room is on me. I
have reservations in Gorham (just north of Jackson).

I am planning on an easy 10 - 15 mile ride after
arrival and then hit this great little Italian
restuarant right down the road. Naturally, I'll
hit the sack early since we'll have to be up at
4:00am - get ready - register - possibly find a
rider that needs passage down.

No pressure. As I said, my wife will do it, she's
just scared to death is all :-)...

>    I did try a selle flight titanium I was able to borrow  
>    (thanks Buddy!).  To my surprise It actually felt good.  I liked it
>    enough to consider buying one (forgive me all you leather codgers!). I
>    have a couple of rides to go to work out any kinks.  I had no problem
>    doing loops up the pack with it and my posterior feels fine today
>    sooooooo.  I think I'll risk it.


Cool. As long as you have a chance to try it under similar conditions to Mt.
Washington. That last section of Pack Monadnock is even steeper than the last
stretch of Mt. Washington. 

Good luck guys.

Karol

    Where is the finish line?  Where the lower level of parking starts?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bob

A heart felt thanks to Larry Cohen for bailing my wife out!

 Thanks Larry!

 Chip

RE: <<< Note 3044.31 by ROWLET::AINSLEY "Less than 150 KTS is TOO slow" >>>

>    Where is the finish line?  Where the lower level of parking starts?

Right at the top, as far as you can go (i.e., past a bunch of lots).
						-- Tom

    re: .33
    
    Does that mean you ride up the handicap access road to the railhead?
    
    Bob - who has only been to Mt. Washington twice

    Chip, I take it from your reply a few back that you found a ride down.
    In any case, your plea sounded familiar.  I was in the same situation
    a few years back the first time I ran the Mt.  My wife was more
    anxious about her ascent than I was about mine.  She kept asking
    different people what they thought and mostly got "I wouldn't if I
    were you" types of answers.  She almost decided against it.  The last
    person she asked...the park ranger at the gate...said "we haven't lost
    anybody yet, you'll be okay".  She took heart from that and off she 
    went.  When it was over she said "cake".  She has done it 5 times now.
    
    Good luck and have fun to everyone going up!
    
    Bob

RE: <<< Note 3044.34 by ROWLET::AINSLEY "Less than 150 KTS is TOO slow" >>>

>    Does that mean you ride up the handicap access road to the railhead?

I don't recall the specifics myself. The only time I cycled up, in 1992, the
race ended at the top of the final steep (20+% grade) pitch that dead-ended at
a gravel lot. From there I think all that was left were trails and (essentially
level) private drives to the various buildings. 
						-- Tom

 Thanks, Bob. I am all set. 

 The race does end at the very summit. There are really only 
 walkways at the summit. The parking lost are situated below
 the immediate start of the 22% final grade section. You park 
 in the lot and walk up the wooden stairway.

 I'm getting excited........................................

        I really do hope that the weather lets them go this year.  I'm waiting
    to hear anything about the climb.  Anything.

    rich

    well, they should be off if the weather is good.  :)

The weather was outstanding. Mid 40s with 30 mile visibility
and about 25mph winds. 

I did absolutely terrible. I was 8 minutes off my last ride.

Larry Cohen had a great ride (1:22-something).

I stayed pretty much with the Top Notch group for the first
2 miles then just died. I know exactly what it was. I ran
those 178 crank arms hoping that the additional leverage
would be to my advantage... NOT! I just couldn't keep
turning them over. I never suffered so bad on a bicycle
so bad in my life.

Next year I will be going to my regular crank arm length
and get much lower gearing. 

When I got home after the climb I weighed 5lbs less than
I weighed when I left Friday. 

The group seemed much smaller than in the past. I know the
Top Notch group was much smaller. 

Oh well, next year I'll be back...

Chip 

    
    He came,  He saw,  He climbed ... and climbed and climbed!
    
    I achieved all of my goals:
    1.  made it to the top without stopping.
    2.  not finish last.
    3.  finish in 90 minutes
    
    On a gorgeous day at Mount Washinton I made it up in ...
    
    1 hour 23 minutes and 53 seconds. (Actually my clock said 1:23 but I  
    wont complain too much). I was about 76 out of 270 overall.
    I'm not sure where I finished in my category but I think I was among
    the first 5 (maybe 2nd!). 
    This is one big hill!  I thought I would stay on my front 42 for a
    while
    either in my 42x24, or 42x28 but after about a couple of miles I was in
    my 28x20.  After about another mile I was in my 28x24 wondering if I
    had enough gears!   Then the 2 mile long dirt section hit and could not
    stand at all.  This forced me down to my 28x28 but I was spinning by
    a lot of people.   The last 1/4 mile leveled out to about a 5% grade
    where I managed to hit at least 10mph before I hit the 22% grade wall.  
    The crowd at the top really helped.   I could hardly breath when I 
    finished.  I almost cried when I got off the bike.
    
    All in all I was physched and had a great time.  Wait till next year!
    
                                                      
    -Larry
    

    Congrats to everyone who rode!
    
    Bob

    Someone just showed me an article about this years race. Some
    stats:  
    	Top rider:  Joseph Bucciaglia of Willow Grove PA defended (thats
    	right defended 3 years later) his title at 1:00.30
    
    	Top Woman: Marilyn Ruseckas road up on a mountain bike for a time
    	of 1:14.19.  I presume she used smooth tires.
    	Amy Regan the former RAAM rider road up in 1:24:19 for 2nd.  
    	(I was a little confused by her time because I know I had to wait
    	a long time before she was up and she started in my group ???)
    
    	I noticed while looking through the top 25 that Ed Pavelka was
    	18'th overall at 1:11.02.  Ed Pavelka is the executive editor of
    	Bicycling Magazine.   
    
    	-Larry