Conference noted::bicycle

    Not terribly practical, but an F18 Thunderbird airshow flight
    supposedly shortens a person's torso by about an inch ;-)

    
    	What if you buy a 20" frame, transfer all your stuff onto it, and
    	sell the 18" frame?
    
    	I'm barely 6' tall and my seat is raised about 4" out of my 20"
    	frame.  I can't imagine how high your seat is.
    

    For the limited cost, I would go with a 145 or 150mm stem and give it a 
    try...Kalloy (made in Taiwan) runs only $15.99 in catalogs.
    Another option is to change the handlebar with a smaller bend ie:
    3 degrees versus 5 degrees. 
    
    steve 

the *correct* answer is to get a bigger frame - one that fits you
since you seem to rule that out i would go for the longer stem
though i think you might want to do better than kalloy for a y22....

--roger

    Since he was unsure if it would work, I only suggested a cheap stem as
    a low risk try. 
    
    20" frame sounds like quite a jump though...
    
    steve

    
    
     Pat
    
     I'm 6'2" with loooong arms ;they drag on the ground. Because of this
    I've been though this crap a few times (its expensive). Keep in mind
    pushing the saddle too far back on mountain bikes can negatively affect
    handling.
    
    Unless the measurement is way way out dont under estimate your bodies
    ability to adapt. (You did'nt hear that from me, I take no
    responsibilty whatsoever for anything I write or say, at time of this
    writting I declare myself legally insane).
    
    Whats the saddle nose to mid handle bar measurement?
    
    -regards
    Wayne V
    
    

	re: .-1

	Patrick,

	Tell them how you've adapted so far.

	(sorry, I couldn't resist).

	

    the correct answer is not necessarily a bigger frame. you chose the
    frame size because of persoanl preferences. many, many MTB'ers go
    for the smaller frame.
    
    there is also a gadget that attaches the seatpost (Tri-geek item) that
    allows a great deal of saddle adjustment. i'd suggest a longer stem
    as well. they get pretty long.
    
    those two should solve the problem.
    
    (love my Y22!)

    
    In either case, extreme adjustment will definately have negative 
    effect on any serious climbs and downhills. Seat too far back on a 
    climb will lift the front wheel up, a stem too far forward on the 
    front wheel will make you dive over especialy when you break. 
    I assume for one that spends the $$ for a Y22, preformance and 
    handling should be the number one factor and they plan on riding 
    more than just fire trails. I would sacrifice a little discomfort
    in favor of preformance. I guess the most pressure will be transferred
    to your shoulders and hands (ie, numb hands on long rides) It amazes
    me that Trek doesn't have a frame size between 18" 20". 
    I actualy prefer it to be more like 17" , 19" etc...
    
    Shaw 

	How about checking out note 2.1082?

	Justin is always selling good stuff cheap.

	I'm still riding on a pair of his wheels I bought 4 years ago.

	But the post is probably the wrong diameter and/or length...

    
    	I don't think he wants to move his seat 2" forward, though.  8^)
    

	Thanks for all the suggestions. 

	I did some careful measuring this morning and found that
	the distance from the back of the seat tube to the center
	of the handlebar is identical to my road bike which is a 
	59cm frame. Also the stem length is the same but the
	road bike has a negative degree rise so it is parallel
	to the ground.

	re: .9 I measured the distance from center of bottom bracket to
	top of seat tube and found it to actually be 19" not the 18"
	they state in the spec. Hmmm?
	Performance and full suspension was definitely what I wanted
	when I chose this bike. The smaller frame was to shave weight and
	increase quickness in handling. All of this has been
	accomplished. 
	

	I think I'll start with getting a 0 degree rise or a -10
	(to make the stem parallel to the ground) and see how that
	feels.  

	The bike is still fairly new and I may need more time to get used
	to it and adjust my riding style accordingly.

	Thanks for all the input.

	See you on the trails.

	Pat

    I would suggest a steel stem with a 5 degree rise, 150mm or longer.  
    
    Steel is the wisest option when you get this long, because when
    aluminum fatigues, it breaks without warning.  Two of the big aluminum
    stem makers, Syncros and Control Tech, both had major recalls last year
    (neither will say exactly what the reason was, other than "catastrophic
    failure").
    
    Salsa makes a very good stem in this design, and they back it up
    (they'll even refinish an old stem for $17.50, shipping included). 
    Colorado Cyclist carries Salsa ($50, if I recall).  The Ritchey 
    Forcelite is also a good bet ($32.50 from Excel), and they make a 160.
    
    I wouldn't be too worried about using a long stem if you get a safe
    one that's been on the market long enough so you're not being used as
    a guinea pig.  Your seat is so far back, your weight distribution
    should still be balanced.  
    
    You'll also find by doing a little geometry that using a lower rise 
    (like 5 degrees instead of 15) will give you greater extension.
    
    Moving your seat back further is probably not the solution, unless you
    have extremely long femurs.  Seat postion is a function of your lower
    body, not your upper.  If you try to use your seat to compensate for an 
    upper body measurement, you will eventually screw up your pedalling style 
    (like spending a lot of time on the nose of your saddle).
    
    Justin
    

    There are two methods of measuring a seat tube: center of the bottom 
    bracket to top of the seat tube (c-t) and center of the bottom
    bracket to the center of the joint between the seat tube and the top
    tube.  I believe you'll find that Trek uses c-c for its advertised
    size (18"), so it follows that your c-t measurement is 19".
    
    I would caution against going from a 15 degree rise to a -10, because
    that'll lower your bars by roughly 2".  If you feel that you're too
    upright as well as scrunched up, fine.  Otherwise a radical drop like 
    this 1) rearranges your body geometry, pulling you forward so you'll be 
    riding on the nose of your saddle 2) may put an unnecessary strain on
    neck and back muscles.
    
    You'll also find that your options for a -10 stem are pretty limited,
    unless you go with a road stem, and most roads are 26.0 bar diameter
    (or 26.4 for Cinelli), while the MTB bar diameter is 25.4.
    
    If you want only to increase extension, the best way to do it without
    messing up something else is to increase extension -- get a longer stem.
    
    I would also suggest that you give Trek a call.  They put a significant
    amount of time not just into frame design, but also into frame
    build-up.  They can probably give you some useful input on how to go.
    It'll help to have your bike right by the phone, with a tape measure
    and possibly a plumb to drop from the nose of your saddle (in case they
    want a measurement for how far behind the bottom bracket your saddle is).
    
    Justin

After speaking with the bike shop they suggested simply turning the stemm
over. This makes the stem almost parallel to the ground and does produce a 
bit more extension. The strength of the stem is not compromised in any way
by doing this.

I can honestly say that my position on the bike does feel somewhat better.

Pat

    .15 only works with AheadSet style stems (in case someone with a
    traditional stem is scratching their head and wondering how you turn
    over a stem.
    
    Justin
    
    

    -- and in case you're puzzled by:  "Seat postion is a function of your 
    lower body, not your upper", try:  "How far forward or backward your
    seat is is as much a function of your lower body as it is your upper."
    
    Justin
    

    my ahead set (SYS 3) is upside down!  :-)
    
    Chip

	re: .16, .18

	Yup. Good point.

	Forgot to mention this only works for "Ahead set" style steering.

	Pat