Conference noted::bicycle

    
    	I can think of better ways to spend my 29th birthday.  Like a
    	dentist appointment, or having my head surgically removed from
    	my body.
    
    	8^)
    

    you're only 29? :-)

    
    	Yeah, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
    

    -1 it's a good thing (if you're telling the truth)... and stop
       sounding like Martha Stewart  :-)
    
       seriously, I took you for much older. is that a good thing? :-)
    
       Chip

    
    >   seriously, I took you for much older. is that a good thing? :-)
    
    
    	If you thought that because I sound distinguished in my noting
    	style then that's a good thing.
    
    	If you thought that because I'm always whining about sore legs
    	and hills like an old fart than that's a bad thing.
    
    	8^)
    

    Ahhhh, er yup, that's exactly what I meant :-)
    
    Chip

 >>>       I can think of better ways to spend my 29th birthday.  Like a
 >>>       dentist appointment, or having my head surgically removed from
 >>>       my body.

Oh no, not the old joke about how to lose 3 lb of useless flesh ........

    
    
    Chip, as curiosity, what bike and what tires do you use for this 
         climb? Since you mentioned the 35% dirt.
     
         I wonder if my quads will sorvive such a climb ;-)
    
    Shaw

    I use my road tires (Avocet K20's). The dirt is extremely hard packed.
    
    The only thing about the dirt is that it's always damp (and worse as
    you ascend) and can get slippery in the really steep spots. You have to
    be very aware of how you're postion on your bike to insure your weight
    is where it needs to be. No kidding, you can easily pull your front
    wheel up at a moments notice and suddenly you're off the bike walking/
    looking for a place to get back on. Yes, it's so steep in some spots
    (and the road is so narrow) you need to find a "cut-out" in the road
    that is made for vehicles to pass.
    
    Chip

    
    Thanks for the info. I wonder if I can go up there before the said
    date and give it a shot prior to commiting. I did Kangamangus from 
    the rt 16 side to Loon, and that had some long climbs on it, but
    nothing like what you describe. 
    
    If I don't sign up, maybe I can show up as a spectator ;-)
    
    Shaw

    this is the only day of the year they allow bicycles on the road...
    
    sorry Shaw...
    
    i did exactly that my first time, i watched. i caught the bug instantly
    and knew i had to do it! been doin' it every year since.
    
    Chip

RE: what tires/keeping rubber on road

Best to err on the side of too much tire rather than too little. This is no
place for high narrow, high pressure tires, especially if you have a lightweight
build. Last time I used a Vittoria Pave CG on the front and a Vittoria
Allweather in the back -  both inflated to around 80psi. These worked quite
well. 

As Chip has said the difficulty in keeping your front wheel down cannot be
overemphasized. I fell off the first time I rode it precisely because of this
and lost *alot* of time trying to get back on. Coming off in this ride is
something that you have to make a priority of avoiding. It's that steep, really.

I have found a few tricks to minimize front wheel hop.

The obvious one is sitting on the nose of the seat but this is a pain in the,
well, you know. You could try simply sliding your seat forward and moving it up
a little to compensate for the loss in seat height that you get when you move it
forward.

If you have a bike with adjustable dropouts you should remove the limit screws
inside the dropouts entirely and slide your wheel all the way back. This will
transfer some weight from the rear wheel to the front wheel. It really works! I
used to have real trouble with wheel hop until I did this. Now I can control it
enough to get by although the steeper sections are still difficult.

and it gets harder to control this as you tire.

Some riders use a 26 inch wheel in the front for that "funicular" effect.

The best thing you could do for yourself is to find somewhere with a similarly
steep gradient and practice with different setups. You could try the Pack
Monadnock climb which ends in what is claimed to be the steepest stretch of
paved road in New Hampshire. This is an excellent Mt. Washington "test bed". The
best place I have found is Mt. Ascutney in Vt. (discussed in other Mt. Wash.
notes somewhere).

>    If I don't sign up, maybe I can show up as a spectator ;-)

But then you'll be killing yourself when you go up there and realize that you
would really rather be riding rather than watching. ;^)

Karol

    ...and the wheel comes up v-e-r-y fast when she starts to come up.
    
       I have let some air out of tires and have moved my seat forward but
       have never raised the seat. I'll have to check that out this swing.
    
       Chip

    dear (any) moderator, i just noticed i entered 2 Mt Washington notes.
    
    please feel free to consolidate (or not) :-)...
    
    Chip

    Just curious ....  I live out west, but I was wondering what gearing
    setup is recommended.  Does anyone tackle this climb on a mountain bike
    instead because of the availability of real granny gears?
    
    We did a steep road climb out here (Mingus Mountain in Arizona) on
    mountain bikes and were wondering if it would be easier on road bikes -
    higher gears (39/13-23) but lighter weight.
    
    Jim

    There are usually quite a few mountain bikes, at least one tandem, and
    at least one unicycle (yup, you read right).
    
    Frankly, I see no need to drag a MTB up that thing. Obviously, the
    folks who win don't either.
    
    Gearing is pretty personal and varied. I see everything from 1:1 ratios
    and everything up.
    
    I have been running a 39x30 the past few years but my shop's mechanic
    is going to lend me his MTB crank. I'll be able to drop my front gears.
    Unfortunately, my Campy set-up max's at 30 in the rear. I think if I
    can get down a couple of teeth in the front I'll be all set with the 
    30 in the rear.
    
    Chip

    I just got my confirmation back so I'm in.  Just hope the weather holds
    up this year.  But just in case I'll bring my tights, booties, gloves,
    gortex, winter jacket, toe warmers, face mask and a propane space
    heater.
    
    See you there,
    -Larry

    got mine too! i can't wait!
    
    Chip

    .17 -- what's with all the clothes?  You're working so hard, you hardly
    need 'em.  One year the finish had to be moved down from the top
    because the last 200m was solid ice -- I wore a short sleeve jersey and
    shorts, and got wrapped in a blanket when I hopped off.
    
    Does that still happen?  (The blankets, not the ice.)
    
    Justin

Yes, Justin they still do the blankets.

Aslo, the last time I did it ('93) the organization was super. The local HAM
radio crew had people all along the road monitoring the course. This is nice
because you're never far from help in the event of difficulties.

RE: Clothes. The tendency for novices at this climb is to over dress. Believe it
or not Justin is right. You don't want to wear alot of clothes because you'll be
working really hard. The only exception I make is winter gloves. But you may
eschew these too. I have very poor circulation in my hands.

Tights are right out.

Karol

    I was one of those 1st timers (1993) that was WAY over dressed.  10
    minutes into the ride I was really overheated - my glasses were fogged 
    over, I was soaked with sweat...once above the tree line and into the 
    wind, I was instantly "freeze dried".
    
    This year, I'm wearing regular cycling shorts and jersey with a light
    pair of full fingered gloves.  I'll also smear some vaseline on my
    knees to keep the chill off them once above the treeline. And skip the
    Oakley's - at 5 MPH you don't need them :^)

    ok ... I'll just bring the gloves and propane space heater (50,000Btu) ...
    
    Although last year there sure were a lot of people wearing tights
    and booties ...
    
    -L

    The folks you saw last year were dressed for the pre-ride warmup.   If
    the event had gone off as scheduled, I sure a lot of the clothing you
    saw would have been shed just prior to the race start.

    hell... i was warming up with shorts and short sleeve shirt!
    
    they did wrap you last I went up (blanket). Pete's right about the
    the Oakley's!
    
    Chip

    My friend just got rejected from the Mt. Washington ride.  If anyone
    decides not to ride please let me know.  
    
    Thanks,
    	Larry Cohen
    	381-0345

    -1 just be careful as they frown upon substitutes...

    hmmm.  I did this last year when someone offered their registration.
    They had no problem with this then.  Maybe they have loosened their
    policy??
    

    Pollution on top of Mt. Washington? Yes there is!
    
    A few days ago there was a short on TV showing the haze all around.
    Due to the high temperatures and humdity the problem is worse than
    it has ever been this year. I hope it clears off for climb.

    I read a report in the Globe (I think) that said there is as much
    polution in the White Mts as in a small urban town.  Its a general
    condition due to the wind patterns that bring polution from the major
    urban centers and also from the increasing auto traffic. 
    Gee I'm full of good news today :-( 
    -Larry

My friend from DC decided not to make the trip to NH for
the climb this year (said he had to clean his car instead - 
or was it fold his socks?) so he is looking to pass his
registration on...

He called the organizers and they told him he could sell it
himself or mail it back...

Drop me a note and I'll put you in touch with Jeff.

-rob

PS: Yup...I'll be there again this year - secretly hoping that
the weather cancels this years climb again....

    I think I would prefer to stay on the N.Conway side of Mt. Washington
    as there are more options for eats and shopping (spouse).
    Any recommendations?
    Thanks,
    Larry

    Ya Larry, leave your wife at home... :-) Just kidding.
    
    Recommendations for eating, shopping, lodging or all of the above?
    
    Chip

    Primarily lodging but if you know of any restaurants that have decent
    veggie meals (my friend) that would be great.
    Thanks,
    Larry
    

    The following have been taken from the Official White Mountains Lodging 
    Guide (1991).
    
    All are in N. Conway...
    
    Best Western Fox Ridge Resort (603) 356-3151 (4 diamond AAA rated)
    
    The Buttonwood Inn (603) 356-2625 
    
    Clarendon Motel (603) 356-3551 (AAA approved)
    
    Eastern Inns (603) 356-5447 (AAA & Mobile rated)
    
    Eastern Slope Inn (603) 356-6321
    
    Green Granite Motel (603) 356-6901 (3 diamond AAA rated)
    
    Junge's Motel (603) 356-2886 
    
    For starters...
    
    Chip

    
    Hmmm. Do I give out my secret or not? Oh well, all right:
    
    	The Villager Motel in Bartlett. It's about 5-10 minutes from 
    	North Conway. They have kitchenette units, motel units,  
        (if not interested in kitchenettes ask for rooms in the "new" 
    	building) and "the apartment". The apartment is upstairs from 
    	the office and consists of living room with fireplace, full kitchen, 
    	bath, two bedrooms (one with bunkbeds, one with queen bed). This 
    	time of year the apartment probably goes for about $45 a night. 
    	Short hiking trails out to a river (Saco?).
    
    	Not luxury, just very nice, clean and reasonable.
    
    	Real nice down home folks own the place... they even (!!) allow
    	me to bring my two large dogs as long as they're clean and I 
    	don't leave them unattended.
    
	Been going there for years.
    
    								- Mac

    Well, I got the bike set up last Friday with the 39-53 chainrings
    and the 12x30 gears in the rear. Scott (head mechanic at Gamache's)
    loaned me his MAVIC TT crankset - 177's! I broke them in on a 
    club ride Sunday (78 mi.) and they felt great. 
    
    I couldn't believe a jump like that would hardly be noticeable. In
    fact, I think I was a little faster than usual. I didn' even bother
    adjusting anything. Just went.
    
    Boy, am I amped now!
    
    Chip

    
    	I think I'd do serious damage trying to spin a 53-12 at anything
    	short of a freefall out of a plane.  8^)
    
    	As it is, I hardly ever get to use my 42-13 or -11.
    
    	[I'm workin' on my "gear lingo" ... getting there. 8^)]
    

    -1 good job on the gear lingo...
    
       Pretty much time trial gearing although i normally run a 54
       when i start peaking in the season. the only reason i use a
       54 is because Campy stopped making 55's and 56's and my 11
       won't work on my new cassette :-)
    
       Chip
    
       

    my 28/28 is ready to go.  I did some hill work up the pack this weekend
    using some "big" gears  ... 28/23 for example :-).  My last hard
    workout will be thursday and then rest up for Sunday.
    See ya there and good luck.
    -Larry

    -1 back atcha Larry... i did the club TT last night (78 mile animal
       ride on Sunday and a 22 mile spin on Monday). my legs are chopped
       right now. I'll do nothing today :-). Thursday will be a moderate
       30 miler. Friday will be a total "off" day. 
    
       We take a little (mild spin) on Saturday once we arrive at Gorham
       (where we stay overnight). a 10-15 miler, then pound pasta at the
       great little Italian eatery in Gorham (who's name I always forget).
    
       28/28 wow! thatsa soma low gearing you gotta ona that thinga...
       you must be one of those guys that can spin :-)
    
       Chip

>>          28/28 wow! thatsa soma low gearing you gotta ona that thinga...
>>          you must be one of those guys that can spin :-)
     
    I figure I'll take a good book and read it while I'm biking up the
    hill ;-)    
    -L
    
    

    Saturday looks colder than normal and wet (for a change) according
    to the Weather Channel droids.  It'll definitely be colder than
    normal due to a unseasonable Canadian high dropping down; the wet
    I'm not so convinced of.  Kratz

    I guess it is only ONE hill, right? :-)
    
    Weather, ah yes... Well, we'll bring the usual steamer trunk of
    optional attire to fit every weather-mood-swing :-).
    
    Actually, I don't really care how cold it gets. Actually, I don't
    really care how cold and wet it gets. Actually, as long as we ride this
    year I don't really care if a herd of jerseys are flying over the auto-
    road relieving themselves!
    
    I just wanna ride!
    
    Chip :-)

    Chip (or anybody),
    I was thinking of hiking up and cheering you folks coming up the road
    on the last pitch or so (I'll try and wear something Digital).  When
    does it officially begin?  What would be a good time to get to the top
    (race start + 45 minutes)?  Any tips for spectators?
    
    I checked thru this note and some of the others but wanted to make
    sure.  Thanks, Kratz 

    Hey thanks! 
    
    The fastest rider should reach the summit in about an hour so your
    projection of race start +45 minutes should work.
    
    I believe it will begin (weather permitting) 7:30/8:00. 
    
    If I were going to watch I'd sit myself down along the 22% grade
    section just before the top/finish. 
    
    Chip

    Well, I thought I'd start an "excuses for not riding well" entry
    to stay a little ahead of the curve :-). So, all who are participating
    can to start to enter their excuses now and save a little time and
    bother on Monday.
    
    I'll start:
    
    - I flatted (twice)
    - I had sore (your favorite body part here)
    - I over-dressed
    - I under-dressed
    - I wore a dress
    - I didn't warm up enough
    - I warmed up too much
    - I didn't warm up at all
    - I had a (your favorite malady here)
    - I dropped my chain (your favorite number of times here)
    - I was attacked on the way up by (your favorite woodland friend here)
    - I forgot my water bottle
    
    Have fun kids...
    
    Chip

excuse n+1

i couldnt use my aero bars


have fun folks
--roger

    
    You covered most of the good excuses but here are a few more:
    
    I shouldnt have eaten the 5lbs of bacon for breakfast
    I forgot to carbo-load
    I overdosed on the carbo drinks and got cramps
    I didnt get enough sleep the night before
    I overtrained to close to the race.
    I was enjoying the scenery on the way up and forgot to push harder.
    I wanted to save myself for next months century.
    It was a crazy ride to go on anyway!
    
    
    -Larry

    I'm still kind of curious how this works...
    There's several groups (elite, 18-35,...; male, female) and each
      group goes off together, right?
    Does the first group essentially wait all day at the top til the
      last bike of the last group is up, or do they have vans drive down
      in between groups?
    How long from the first group going off til the last?
    
    one more excuse...
    I coulda sworn the road up was on the same side as the Cog railway.

    the elite group like the rest of the group is a mix of everyone.
    each separate group is a mass start.
    
    the auto-road (which is privately owned) is only closed for about 
    1 hour from the elite group's start. you can go down anytime after
    that. They usually have the final standings done by the time you get
    back down too (posted). they really run it well.
    
    Chip

    
    Do you ride down the Mt. to - or just UP?  I'd be terrified to go down!
    
    Lou

RE: <<< Note 2990.51 by PCBUOA::LPIERCE "Do the watermelon crawl" >>>

>    Do you ride down the Mt. to - or just UP?  I'd be terrified to go down!

Only cycle up. Cycling down is prohibited.
						-- Tom

    CANCELED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    I can't believe this has happened again this year! The guys I go up
    with are seriously thinking of bagging this thing unless they change
    the date or alternate dates with the run up the mountain.
    
    Temperature was around 30 and the winds were around 65mph and the
    conditions were still deteriorating at 9:30am. They had the sand and
    salt the 1/2 mile or so due to severe ice conditions. The weather at
    the bottom was great.
    
    Myself and the other two guys I went up with ended riding into North
    Conway (our driver mmet us there). At least we rode this year. A pretty
    good screamer too. It's almost 25 miles and we pulled it in approx. 
    53 minutes.
    
    Major bummer, expensive weeked. Roughly a $130.00 T-shirt. Maybe
    (maybe) next year.
    
    Chip

major bummer for you guys who trekked up there not to get to climb

you mentioned icing near the top - from condensation?

ive done some crazy rides in my life, but
30deg and 65mph wind would be one up on me   :)

--roger

    That is to bad Chip (and the others that went).  I was up in Twin Mtn
    over Labor day and it was starting to show the early signs of getting
    cold.  Before that the mountain was clear a lot.  It would seem that a
    change of the date should be very possible, I know there isn't much
    activity in June while school is still in session and vacations are not
    in full swing yet. After July 4th weekend is when it finally gets
    going.  Before that they try to drag people in.
    
    Wow, about 30mph average.  That was fast.  Must have been from pent-up
    energy. :)  and here I thought I was doing good yesterday going around
    Lake Masabesic with a 16mph average after riding 110 miles this week. 
    Well, now I know that I still have a long way to go.
    
    rich

    In a word ... disgusted!!!!!!!!
    Change the beeping date!!!
    
    What bothered a lot of us is the waiting around for 1.5 hours after the
    official start time for them to make up there minds... they knew 
    damn well the  weather was not going to improve!!
    
    I'm not giving up though!  I'll be back.   Just wish there were more
    "fun" events like this.  Right now I'll have to get my self psyched
    for a fall century instead ... but its just not the same.
    
    sigh,
    Larry
    

    Aaaaiiiiiiup, the whole think stinks. I know rescheduling would be just
    about impossible. The most viable change would be to alternate the bike
    and run events. It would mean most cyclist wouldn't be quite into shape
    what a training ride it would be!
    
    The ride into North Conway has some absolute screaming downhills once
    you get away from the auto-road. The worst terrain is flat with a small
    hill once you make your left in Jackson. We dropped one guy, but the
    guy I was riding with is a real monster. His name is Will Kirousis and
    is crrently attending Keene State (young whipper-snapper). This guy
    has changed from MTB's to the road. He'll be a CAT 3 next year and
    has a lot of potential to get to a 2+.
    
    Chip 

    I imagine if the cyclists threw enough money at the management of
    the AutoRoad that just about any date could be accomodated.  The
    idea is to get the entry fee high enuf ($100+?) to accomplish that
    (and still have to turn away riders who want to enter).

    Sounds like the people in charge of the race need to do some creative
    thinking.  
    
    When the Pikes Peak hill climb race (cars, trucks, motorcycles) was in 
    jeopardy of being canceled due to weather this past July (snow), a 
    decision was made to run a shorter race that stopped short of hazardous 
    conditions.  Although competitors were at 1st disappointed, they later
    were grateful that the race was even held.

    oh, if it were that simple... then you'd have to dig up race organizers
    and promoters, etc... i don't know what a normal daily take is during
    the year at any given point in time, but i'll bet the second Sunday
    in September is one of the more "lighter" days.
    
    i don't think he gets anything. i'll bet he uses it as a tax right-off
    since the Tin Mountain Conservancy is a non-profit group.
    
    man, it's been a whole day and i'm still whining :-)
    
    maybe i'll take a ride up Mt Wachusett after work and laugh at it :-)
    
    Chip
    

RE: <<< Note 2990.59 by COOKIE::MUNNS "dave" >>>

>    When the Pikes Peak hill climb race (cars, trucks, motorcycles) was in 
>    jeopardy of being canceled due to weather this past July (snow), a 
>    decision was made to run a shorter race that stopped short of hazardous 
>    conditions.

That's been done at Mt Washington before, FWIW.
						-- Tom

    I think my lunch time crew was feeling sorry for me.  They "let" me finish
    ahead on most of the hills today ... I feel a little better.  Gotta
    start my training for next years ride :-)
    -Larry
    
    

    I know Larry, I did. I went up Mt. Wachusett yesterday but failed to
    explode my heart :-).
    
    I did a suicide descent, though. I passed a car on the mountain road
    near the Condo. Took the left onto Mile Hill Rd. The guy I passed
    followed me. We stopped for traffic at the Rte 140 intersection and
    told me he had me doing 54mph just before the lodge. Not a record,
    but I had the rush.
    
    Easy 40 tonight and then I think I'm going into the woods. I'm still
    depressed. Hey, maybe I'll sue the TMC for a million bucks, yeah,
    that's the ticket... :-)
    
    Chip

    Or how about we do a ride from Twin Mtn. up through Crawford Notch,
    down to Bartlett, up through Bear Notch to the Kancamagus and down to
    Licoln, and up Rt 3 to the bike path through the notch and then back to 
    Twin Mtn.  Plenty of uphills and two great down hill runs.  
    You should even be able to break a personal record or two.
    
    rich

    done that ... The one I'm interested in doing some day is the 
    Markleeville California Death ride in the Sierra Nevadas.      
    5 "big" mountain passes and 150 miles.  Use to be a training ride for
    Greg Lemonde ... or so I was told.
    ;-) Larry
    
    

    get some practise at altitude.  Most of Markleeville 'death ride' is
    above 6000'...
    
    DougO

    or do the 6 gap ride back and forth through the green mtns....
    brandon, midlleburry, lincoln, ??? - i forget the others
    plus you still have to get back to the starting point when youre done
    am told most sane people do it over multiple days  :)
    
    --roger
    

    I have done the run 4 out of the last 5 years and know about the
    other year.  I think the bike race would have been cancelled at
    least 2 and possibly 3 times.  Twice due to soggy conditions and
    this year with 50 to 60 MPH winds the last half.  When I say 
    soggy, I mean the gravel parts of the road were very soft.
    
    I am very much into cycling too and have always wanted to do the bike 
    but it gets into marathon season.  That would be kind of a cool 
    double though.  I think it has only been done a few times.
    
    My condolences to all that trained for this.
    
    Bob  

For those of you who are all trained up with no place to go I would suggest you
try the Mt. Greylock Hillclimb in North Adams, Ma. It's happening this Sunday
(September 24th). Registration is from 7:30 to 8:30 and the race starts at 9:00.

See notes elsewhere for more details. Justin Crocker and Rod MacFadyen can
attest to the difficulty of this hill. It's no Mount Washington but much harder
than Col de Wachusett.

re: other notes:

I believe the reason they don't call it half way has something to do with the
masses of cars they need to be able to park at the finish. I guess the lin of
parked cars would go a mile up the mountain.

The idea of swapping the running and biking race is a good one. Have you
suggested it to anyone who can do anything about it? I'm guessing that it will
be hard since there are more runners than bikers.

Of course if they just let bike riders go up the mountain any day of the year
like they used to do then it wouldn't be a problem. (but you've all heard this
story.)

Karol

    I understand that they are considering a date in August (moving it in).
    
    While there is never a sure thing on that mountain, moving the date in
    will help the odds of better weather.
    
    I'm still flirting with Greylock. :-)
    
    Chip

    Was up in the area the last several days and read one of those tourist
    rags describing the failed ride this year.  The article did say that
    they're looking at rescheduling sometime in August.  I "think" the
    publication was "The MountainEar" (9/14 issue), but can't be sure. 
    Picked up another paper in Conway, who's name I can't recall, and it
    might have been in that one.
    
    Anyone heading north this weekend may want to stop at the info center
    north of the Hookset tolls and grab some propaganda.  If found, the
    correspondent could be contacted for their source of info.