Conference noted::bicycle

    I predominantly use a helmet-mounted light (TurboCat) on my mtn
    bike for two reasons: you can see branches and stuff in which
    you're about to plant your face into, and the light itself doesn't
    get bounced silly.
     

    must ultramarathon types will point out that helmet mounted lights
    don't give you depth perception -- can't see the shadows because
    they're in almost the same line as your eyesight.
    
    ed

    I use the NiteRider system. It has dual lights (12w & 30) which can be
    run independently or together. Naturally, the more w's you burn the
    less run time on the battery (NiCAD rechargeable). Don't quote me on
    this, but I think I was getting about 1.5 - 2.0 hrs. per charge using
    both lamps. I think the propaganda says 3-4 hrs. using just the 12w
    lamp. When you have 32w's running it's like day light. They also 
    received the better reviews in Bicycling Mag.
    
    This system is waterproof. In fact, it was originally developed for
    SCUBA divers. It is pricey, but I've had mine for 3 years now and 
    really like - no problems. The battery (water bottle configuration)
    so I bought one of the waste belts designed to carry a water bottle
    and it works great. I used to just stuff into my cycling jersey or
    jacket, but it's uncomfortable.
    
    You are suppled with a bar mount or helmet mount. I personally like
    the helmet mount and use it exclusively. I don't find a problem with
    depth perception at all. I know Ed, I'll say it before you do... I'm
    shallow :-). With the light mounted on your helmet you can spot the
    light anywhere you want. Big advantage if your deep in the woods and
    drop a chain or flat and need to get off to do some repair work.
    
    There you have it. One unpaid advertisement. Good shopping.
    
    Chip

    the folks I know who complained about lack of depth perception from
    helmet mounted lights were mostly concerned about not being able to see
    potholes at 20 mph.  that might not be a problem in the woods.  :-)
    
    No Chip, I was busy pondering the uses of a water bottle on a "waste"
    belt.  I mean, heck, you're in the woods, noone's going to see you.  :-)
    
    ed
    
    heck, I still can't stop grinning.

      I have the same setup as Chip.  Everyone I night ride with has switched 
    to a helmet mount.  A few people who originally bought a "cheaper" 
    set of lights have since converted to the NightRider system.  It's
    expensive, but worth the money.  
    
      I almost always use the low power light, except when I'm jamming hard
    on a really technical section.  
    
      I've never noticed a depth perception problem, and I know the last time
    I rode with someone with a computer, we hit 30+mph on downhill section.
    

    Okay Ed, as hard as try to avoid feeding you ammo... :-)
    
    I meant waist, WAIST!
    
    Hey, if bears do it in the woods with a total lack of embearassment...
                                                            ^^^^
    
    :-)

    :-) :-)
    
    ed

    
    Looks like the Niterider system is preferred but costly.
                                         
    Can you mount one light on the helmet and one on the bar seeing
    they can be independent of eachother?
    
    How much does the 12w and 30w setup cost?

    Both lamps are in one housing so you can't mount a handlebar/
    helmet set-up. What I meant by "independently" is that you can
    run the 10w alone or the 20w alone or both together.
    
    Performance has the Commuter Premium for $259.99.
    
    
    NiteRider also make a single lamp system for:
    
    * Cyclops Premium 15w $119.99 (NiCAD battery pack)
    * Cyclops Pro 6 15w   $129.99 (NiCAD waterbottle)
    * Cyclops Sport 10w   $49.99  (Alkalines or NiCAD)
    
    Chip
     

    Can't say that I'm an expert on technical mountain biking, but I have
    used three different low-to-mid priced lighting systems.  
    
    My first light was a 5W Specialized product which used 4 "C" cells.  
    With Millenium NiCad cells it put out an amount of light that was
    minimally acceptable.  Some friends used the same light with Alkaline
    cells, but the light was not as bright.  NiCad cells and Lead-Acid
    batteries can deliver higher current rates.  With NiCad cells, battery
    life was just over 1.5 hours.  I still use this light as backup on 
    my mountain bike, but it would merit only a weak recommendation, and
    then only with NiCad batteries.
    
    Light number two was a homebrew light.  It's more-or-less a single
    lamp version of Arnie Bergers design (see note 10.100 for details).
    It's bright, and battery life is over 2.5 hours with a 20 watt bulb.
    The drawbacks are that you'll need to spend some time building it,
    the battery is a bit on the heavy side (5 pounds).  Your craftsmanship
    will determine how good the light looks.  Figure on $15 for the bulb,
    $30 for the battery, $10 for miscellaneous hardware.  If you need a 
    charger, that's more money.  I'm charging mine with a $14 K-Mart 
    motorcycle battery charger through a $1 power resistor.  Overall, I'm
    real pleased with this light, and two of my friends liked it enough
    to build one of their own.
    
    My final purchase was the Cyclops Sport for $50 from Performance.  I
    was expecting a 10w product, but a 15w Sport model arrived.  That 
    light went on the road bike.  It's bright.  It uses 5 "D" cells.  The
    Cyclops instruction sheet explains Alkaline vs. NiCad battery
    characteristics.  Again, the NiCad cells have a shorter life per
    charge, but they put out bright white light until the last two minutes. 
    Mine is equipped with Radio Shack high-capacity NiCads which cost about
    $8 each (ouch) but sometimes you see them on sale for $5.  I haven't
    personally tested battery life yet, but I expect 1.5 hours based on 
    my calculations (with the manufacturer quoting higher numbers). 
    Alkaline cells probably deliver lower quality light for 6 hours.  My
    biggest complaint with this system is that loading the batteries is
    about like building a ship in a bottle.
    
    Basically, bike lights are expensive because rechargeable batteries are
    expensive, especially NiCads.  Some units use Lead-Acid gel cells which
    are a bit heavier.  I don't know what your light budget is, but don't
    waste money on a light that won't do the job.  Check out the other
    light information in this conference.  There are also some pointers to
    additional information in the Internet newsgroup FAQs.  
                              
    Have fun, night riding is a blast.
    
    Bob

    
    Thanks folks.
    
    >
    >are a bit heavier.  I don't know what your light budget is, but don't
    >
    
	My budget is just that....a "lite budget"  ;-)  I didn't expect to 
    	see such high costs associated with this.
    
    	I sorta like the idea of constructing my own custom illumination
    	setup if I can find the time! 
    	
        I'll post details on the final setup when it's completed (and
    	paid for!)                   

I have been using a Nightsun Team Issue for 4 years, it works great.  Cost 
is $200.  It is handlebar mounted.  I have never tried helmet mount but 
handlebar works fine.   Except if you are on twisty, rooty, babyhead 
infested singletrack...you can't see whats coming up around the corner.

It's been thru heavy showers, snowstorms and a few crashes and keeps on 
ticking.  The only problem I have had is that the bottle bounced out of my 
bottlecage on a rough decent, then the wires disconnected.  It bounced a 
good 5 feet off of the trail.   Good thing I wasn't alone that time...I 
never would have found the battery.  Since then, I put an old piece of 
innertube around the battery so that it can't bounce out of the cage.
It's been flawless ever since.

My advice...if the light is mostly so you can be seen by oncoming vehicles
you can get by with an inexpensive one.  If you ride only on the road but 
fast (15 mph +) get a good light $100 +.  If you plan to trailride at night
buy the best or buy real good health insurance.

happy trails,
mike

imho,
I recommend handlebar mount.  This setup saved my light system on one of my 
crashes.  I was riding down a very steep decent.  I grabbed a little bit 
too much front brake and was sent over the handlebars.  My head hit the 
ground a bit.  If I had a helmet mount it probable would have broken.  The 
handle bar mount light is protected by the handlebar/barend combo and is 
harder to damage.

    The Nightsun system I've looked at seem pretty good.  My boss uses
    one and I think he's happy with it.  I believe that they have a 
    Commuter model which is like the Team Issue except with less battery
    capacity for a few bucks less.   If I find more information, I'll
    post in in this space.  
    
    If you're planning to build a light, I'd budget $60 or so.  If you
    plan to purchase a light, plan to spend $100+ as reply .12 suggests.
    The key to saving money is to get the right light the first time.
    
    Bob

    
    
    	I bought a Vistalite VL430??  dual beam system.  Works excellent.
    
    	Waterproof....havent's broken it yet!!  Hi-Lo beam 16 watts total
    
    	Individually focusing/aligning beams claimed to last 2.5 hours but
    
    	I haven't gone "yellow" yet!   If you buy the 2 watt bulb ($5) you
    
    	can use four AA batteries.
    
    
    	All for $98

    Handlebar mount vs. helmet mount:
    
    When you're alone in the middle of nowhere, it's pitch black, and
    something off the trail just let out a spine-tingling growl, with the
    helmet mounted light you can quickly turn and see what's about to
    eat you.  This may explain the popularity of handlebar mounts for
    nighttime trail riding ;-) 

    FWIW, I know I'm late, but I commute several months with lights...
    
    The VistaLite 400 series is excellent, with a frame mounted battery and
    dual beams, 10W per light.  You can get a 15W bulb, but it's not
    worth it to me.  20 watts is quite a lot.
    
    All for under $100.  Only a dollar under $100, but what the hell.  
    
    For a few bucks more you can get a third light for your helmet.
    
    Basically, you could put two lights on your helmet, and three on the
    frame for the price of a NightRider.  This way you will not only be
    able to see, but you will blind any bike-eating trail varmints.  And
    the extra weight from all the batteries will help stabilize you in high
    winds.
    
    Later,
    	   Mike