Conference noted::bicycle

    My usage profile is much like yours.
    
    I bought a new bike this spring, have been riding it daily & am very
    happy with it - Bianchi Eros.
    
    It is steel framed, Campy components, triple chainring (32/42/52 to
    12/13/14/15/17/19/21/23), rack mounts, slightly relaxed geometry (2cm 
    longer wheelbase than their racing bikes), STI-style shifting (Campy's 
    interpretation), excellent braking, tough enough to ride hard on rough
    New Hampshire town roads, around $900.
    
    I should mention that I was coming from a 1972 Gitane Tour de France -
    so this was a great leap in technology for me - a pleasure to ride.
    
    Jack

    If you are going to do any loaded touring, I don't believe the
    Cannondale has any eyelets on the dropouts for mounting racks.  The
    Trekooks like it has front and rea.    I don't know about the Allez.  
    
    The Allez did get a favorable writeup earlier this year in Bicycling -
    good all around racing/century performance, as I recall.
    
    I think the handling differences are more a result of frame geometry
    rather than materials.
                          
    My 2 cents

    Sounds like you did your homework.  All of the bikes mentioned are very
    good.  .-1 makes a good point about eyelets for racks although you
    can get brackets to attach to the stays ... I would not do this if I
    really thought I was going to do loaded touring... go with eyelets.
    Bit fit should be the biggest factor.
    -Larry

    thats bike fit not bit fit .... arghh.  how do you modify a note
    anyway?

    Large tube aluminum frames are very unforgiving on the road... Very
    harsh ride. That doesn't sound like what you're looking for so stay
    away from the C Dales. I owned one and (pound for pound) they're a
    hard-to-beat racing frame for the money.
    
    The lost power-to-the-pedal would not be a factor for you so don't
    worry about having to work harder with a steel or composite frame,
    you won't. 
    
    Chip

thanks for all of the advice so far.  one more realm of question - price.

how much does the "sticker" price of a bike equal what i should expect to
pay for it?  is there any room to bargain, is that basically what it costs?
i've got a friend who's looking to buy a mtn bike, so i'm hoping that maybe
we can find a single store that will satisfy both of us, and maybe we'll have
a little more bargaining power shopping for 2 bikes at once.

- rich

    For what it's worth, I bought a Cannondale R500 a year and a half ago,
    and I love it.  The triple is great.  The brazons on the back allow me
    to put a rack on the back, and I think the 94 and 95 models came with
    the STI shifters (which weren't on the 93, but several of my friends
    have them and love them).
    
    I just put the Shimano M747 pedals on it, as I intend to get a mtn bike
    this year and want the same pedals on both.  Also bought the Shimano
    M51 shoes, so I can have one pair, with recessed clip, for both.  Like
    these much better than the Time pedals and shoes that I had.
    
    Fit is the most important item in selection, and the Cannondale R500
    fit me well (needed a real small frame) and had most of the options I
    wanted.
    
    Do test ride whatever you buy, and go to a shop that will let you take
    it out on the road and really test it.  I road the R500 twice, and the
    second time was out for about and hour and a half, before deciding.
    
    Claire
    

    Yes, most shops will bargain and will usually toss something in 
    (if asked, e.g. a couple of water bottles, patch kit, etc...).
    
    Look around a little. I know some shops still have some '94 models
    kicking around. You're more likely to get a better deal on those.
    
    Good hunting...
    
     Chip

My road bike is a TREK 2120, it's carbon fiber so it was a little more
money ($1200) it does have the 3 ring up front. Shimano deore lx with rsx 
sti shifters.  
TREK makes a couple more that are less price, the 1220 which is aluminium
probably would come in around $900 wih Shimano rsx STI and the 520 is a 
cro-moly bike with bar end shifters and deore lx, I believe the price is 
about the same as the 1220.

All of these are considered touring bikes so they have the attachments for 
racks, etc.

MikeR

$.02 from a less-than-avid cyclister...

A couple of years ago, after riding in a 150-mile benefit outing, I decided to
update my 1972-vintage Raleigh Grand Prix.  The one thing I knew that I wanted
were the STI shifters...they just seemed soooo much more practical than any 
other shifting mechanism, though I had never actually used them.

I started off to buy a mid-priced bike ($4-700), but couldn't find one in that
range with STIs.  I tried to figure out how to upgrade a midpriced bike with
STIs, but the price always came out about $1K.  So, joe-less-than-avid-biker,
sprang for the Trek 2200.

Well, I still don't believe that I need as much bike as I bought (nor does my
wife who also got a 2200), but I'll tell you that I wouldn't trade those STIs
for frame-mounted shifters for the world.  And, I probably wouldn't ride the
number of miles I do each year (though still usually under 1000) if it weren't
for those STIs.

So my advice is to definitely make sure that you get STIs.  You'll wonder how
you ever rode without them...and you never will again!

re: reliability -  I've got about 3K on each of 2 bikes now and neither has 
had any kind of trouble...and I don't do a whole lot to them, either (tune-ups 
once a year).  

John

After 15 years, I think it's about time to replace the ol' Peugeot 12-speed.
I'm looking for a bike I can use for fairly fast recreation road riding and
maybe an occasional short tour/work commute. I want to keep the price under
$900. So far I've seen the Trek 1200/1220/1400, Specialized Allez <sport?>,
Bianchi Eros/Trofeo/Campione d'Italia, plus a few models from Miyata, Giant,
GT, and Raliegh. 

Any recommendations on steel vs aluminum? I know the Al is supposed to be
a bit harsh, but the Trek I rode didn't feel all that bad. How about
Campy (on the Bianchi) vs Shimano (everything else)? (yeah, I know this is
a religious argument :-)).

Also, what about used bikes? Where are they? Somehow I picture avid cyclists
getting something new/improved every year...I'd like to find a good deal on
a used Serotta/Vitus/Giordana/etc.

BTW, I don't ride as much as I used to, or even as much as I'd like - only 
about 800 miles/year + another 500 or so on my MTB. 

Steve

    Well, if the word "tour" implies panniers, then you need the
    mounting holes, which means the Trek 1200/1400 ("pure" racing
    bikes) are out, and probably some of the other models as well.
    I wish my 1200 had them.  Kratz

>                          -< Check out the TREK line >-

re: 2120, 1220

>All of these are considered touring bikes so they have the attachments for 
>racks, etc.

really?  i'm looking at the 1995 trek catalog right now, and it seems to me the
only bike that i can find that they consider a touring bike is the 520.  it
looks like the 1220, 2120, 2100, and 2300 all have the same geometry, which
is different than the 520.

- rich

>So far I've seen the Trek 1200/1220/1400

are the 1200 and 1400 discontinued?  my '95 catalog only lists the 1220 amongst
the 3 you mentioned.

- rich

    A friend of mine (ref. Note 2815.10) recently bought a Trek 1220.
    It has no rack braze-ons on the seat stays.  I'm not sure if it has
    the eyelets down by the rear hub.
    
    BTW, it can be had for under $800 with Shimano RSX STI.

Some of the "sport-tourers" will have the braze-ons for a rack on the rear
drop-outs, but not on the seat stays.  The geometry is generally closer to a
racing frame than a touring frame.  You can put a rack on them using either
clamps on the seat stays or by mounting the rack to the brake bolt (depending
upon the rack).  In both cases it should not be used to carry a heavy load as it
is not as strong as a true touring frame.  It should be strong enough to carry
what you need for commuting.  It might be ok for a short credit-card (motels,
not camping) tour.

Rich

>>    It should be strong enough to carry  
>>    what you need for commuting.  It might be ok for a short credit-card
>>    (motels, not camping) tour.
    
    I not so sure about that. I'm not a frame expert but have used sport
    touring bikes for all my loaded touring and never had a problem.  The
    main benefit of a true touring frame is the ride should be more
    comfortable ... and should have rack eyelets everywhere.  As long as
    the frame is made of metal it will probably do fine but to be cautious
    I would ask the bike shop/ manufacturer first.
    
    BTW another alternative bike is the one out of the performance
    catologue that was mentioned in a prior note... looks like it meets
    your requirements (.0) for about $600.  

thanks for all of the advice.  yesterday i finally got a chance to ride the
Cannondale, Trek, and Specialized all back-to-back to compare them.  i was
fairly easily able to tell that i didn't want the cannondale.  i think it's
probably a very good racing bike, but the feel of riding it just isn't what
i'm looking for.  i felt much more comfortable on the trek and specialized.
deciding between the two of them was a bit tougher.  the main difference is
that the trek is aluminum and the specialized is steel.  they're similarly
equipped.  the trek was a bit cheaper ($719 vs. $799), but that was without
clipless pedals, so adding the pedals would bring them both in the same price
range.  after riding both bikes back and forth a few times, i decided that i
liked the feel of the specialized better, so i went with that.  i'm going to
pick up the bike next week (i left both the road bike and my mtn bike there so
that i can get the rear rack on my mtn bike xferred to the road bike).

i've got a few more questions:

how worthwhile is a "fitting", for the bike and/or for shoes/cleats?  the store
is trying to convince me that it's worthwhile, but a fitting for both of those
would be an additional $50.  on one hand, i'm already spending a lot of money,
and i'd rather not blow $50 more if it's a waste.  however, for the money that
i'm spending, i want to make sure that everything is just right.  to me, the
bike felt fine, and i'm not sure what, if anything, really needs better
fitting.  and i wonder how much of the proper fit is a personal preference, as
opposed to fitting into some pre-determined set of specs.  for instance,
whenever i've had a bike shop put the seat at a height that they claim is the
right height for me, relative to the pedals, i always find that i want it a
little bit higher.  any suggestions on whether or not i should pay for the
fitting?

re: pedals

the clipless pedals that come on the specialized are able to take the same
shoes that mtn bike pedals would (supposedly, according to the guy at the store
- i want to make sure that this is true).  they differ from mtn bike pedals in
that they're one sided.  is it easier to deal with having a 2-sided pedal, so
that you don't have to worry about the orientation of the pedal when stepping
in?  or is that more of an issue for a mtn bike, and as long as i can use one
set of shoes for both mtn bike and road bike pedals, should i just stick with
the pedals that are on the specialized?

- rich

    Are they Shimano road pedals? 
    
    Getting in and out isn't a problem. Just practice.
    
    Chip

    $50 for a fitting after spending money on a bike...wow.  I've heard of
    30 charges that can be applied towards a bike not not this amount.
    Most fit kits are done prior to buying a bike so you'll know what size
    you need, crank length, stem length, etc.
    
    I would spend $15.00 and join a good bike club and ask for assistance
    from the better riders.  Clubs a welcome source of knowledge. 
    Regarding pedals, if you are using pedals with rotation, setup of
    the shoe is less needed, if at all.  
    
    If you did spend the money, and if your optimum measurement changed the
    frame size and/or stem length would the bike shop make an appropriate
    switch? 
    
    steve  

    Steve is right... They should throw it in if they want to keep you for
    a customer. That's ridiculous.
    
    Chip

    I suspect that the kind of fit they would provide is "by the numbers",
    and then comes the process of fine tuning over time.  Seat height,
    fore/aft position, tilt, for example.  These need to be done gradually,
    and I doubt they can dial you in at the store.
    
    With cleats, the normal straight ahead position may not be right for
    you either.  One foot may naturally tilt a little.   The only way to
    tell is by pedalling or awhile.
    
    I'd set the bike up according to one of the formulas and then play from
    there over time.   Can't believe they'd charge for it!!!
                                   

after explaining to the shop (belmont wheel works) the nearly universal
opinion that they were out of line to charge me for a cleat fitting after i
was spending approx. $1000 at their shop already, they threw it in for free.
:^)

thanks for all the help.  i picked up my bike last nite.  can't wait to go
riding!!!

- rich

I didn't have to ask for it for free.  They just did it.

    Enjoy and have fun Rich... It's a beautiful day, but a little breezy
    for going really fast :-)
    
    Chip

one last question... (which probably doesn't belong in this note, but i'm not
sure where else to put it)

i got a cycling computer along with the bike.  the instructions list
circumferences for a few typical wheel sizes, including:

size	circumference (in.)

700x25c	83.62
700x38	85.43

my tires are listed as "700x23c".  just what do those 2 numbers mean?  short of
actually measuring the diameter or circumference myself (which may not give a
very accurate result), is there anyway i can extrapolate the above 2 numbers to
calculate a circumference for my wheel?  or does anyone have a more complete
table?

- rich

    
    RE: .-1
    
    	Those are infact the circuferences of those wheels, at a nominal
    tire pressure, and rider weight.
    
    	A more accurate technique for finding the actual number for your
    exact combination is to:
    
    	1) get on the bike, and have a helper ready to hold you steady
    
    	2) on a flat surface, mark the pavement with a (chalk) mark,
    	   when the wheel is situated such that the valve stem is at
    	   its lowest point (perpendicular with the pavement).
    
    	3) Having your helper hold you straight, move forward on the bike
    	   exactly one rotation, until the valve stem is again at the
    	   bottom.
    
    
    	4) Mark the spot and measure the distance in inches.  This is the
    	number to enter into the computer.
    
     - Bob
     

RE: <<< Note 2963.26 by ROCK::FROMM "This space intentionally left blank." >>>

If you are interested in moderately accurate statistics, I'd measure your wheel
using the approach described in reply 27. That's what I've done.

>my tires are listed as "700x23c".  just what do those 2 numbers mean?

700cx23, actually. The 700 refers to the nominal diameter of the rim, in
millimeters. The "c" I think refers to the width of the rim (there have been
"a" and "b" rims, but not for some time I think). The 23 refers to the width of
the tire, in millimeters, at its widest point when pressurized to the
recommended level.
						-- Tom

     All that Tour de France racing has me looking for the fountain of youth,
     namely another road bicycle.  
 
     What is the best way to test ride bicycles ?  I rode a wide price range 
     and they all had a different feel.  How do you determine what is 'right' ?

     I test rode my 1st aluminum frame, a Cannondale R500 - stiff and very 
     efficient feeling.  I felt like I was wrestling the bike because my
     upper body was expecting the frame flex and instead all that energy was 
     going to my arms.  That large diameter 'power tube' has me wondering about 
     wind resistance.  I don't see any fat tubes under those pro riders.
     More test rides will probably answer that.

     Feeling quite extravagant, I test rode a $2500 Eddy Merckyx - it felt
     stiffer than any other steel frame but not as much as those aluminum
     frames.  No way I could justify spending that much money, the frame was
     rather ugly anyway. ;*)

    Index shifting is on all these new toys.  Only 1 bike shifted cleanly, the
    others were in serious need of adjustment.  We are talking Shimano 105 & 
    600, Campy Record & Mirage.  I have always had my shift levers and am 
    leery of this new technology which did not demonstrate itself very well.  
    Does index shifting need a lot of maintenance ?  

    I ride for exercise and I love to subject my body to intense workouts for 
    1-3 hours, 'cause the pain feels so good.  I have always ridden 
    inexpensive, previously owned machines (Columbia, Ross, Huffy) and have 
    never had components wear out in 18 years of bicycle commuting and 
    recreational riding (the bikes get stolen 1st).  Simple maintenance is all 
    that has been necessary. I would like to keep it that way.

    Any other advice you can offer a shopper who is 10 years behind the 
    technology curve in road bicycles ?  

    Are there reputable used bicycle sources ?  I would like to keep the 
    investment under $800.  Looking for good fit and value.

    
    	What's "index shifting"?
    
    	I'm due for a stupid question, and this is probably it.  8^)
    

You can get one hell of a bike for $800.00. If you're going to be "subjecting
yourself to intense workouts" ='s long/hard rides you are certainly thinking
along the right lines of buying a good machine.

I rode a C Dale for a while. It is a harsh ride and if you can get used to it
or at least tolerate it the C Dale is the very best frame for the money. But,
as you get a little older (like me) you look for something a little more
forgiving.

By the way, there are no used bike outlets, but I would recommend the Want Ads
advertiser. You can pick up some really great bikes at reasonable prices. You
might want to bring a knowledgeable individual with you if you choose this
route.

There are a lot of bicycle companies that will provide a great bike for that
money. I would suggest you continue to do what you're doing. That is continue
to test ride bicycles. You'll get the feel and realize which bike feels the
best for you. Most bicycles in your price range will be very good quality
machines.

Don't worry about the new technology. Properly fit-up, it's the balls!

Shawn, index shifting (v. the old friction) is a shifting configuration where
the shifter relays movement to the derailleurs using a ratcheting mechanism
that allows strictly controlled travel of either the derailleur cage or
pulley/jockey wheels (depending whether we're talking front or rear shifts)
resulting in precise gear changes. The shifting in "announced" by a distinct
click so the rider knows the shift is complete. Remember the old days. You'd
shift and then make the chain noise go away by nudging the shift lever.

Chip

    Since you are in the Springs area, you may wish to look at the Fuji's
    at Colorado cyclist.  They had the 95 model, mostly Ultregra for $800.
    I think the 105 version is that price now.  Not a sexy frame but made
    of good tubing and good parts.  
    
    Shifting on the brake levers is standard gear now, as well as clipless
    pedals.  Once setup, they are extremely reliable.  You may need to
    become more familiar with doing some of your own adjustments than in
    the past.   
    
    steve

    
    	Thanks, Chip.
    
    	So that would cover GripShift and lever-type, as long as
    	there's a noticeable "indent" that the lever seems to click
    	into?
    

Pretty much, Shawn. You now find shifting mechanisms in the brake levers,
on the bar ends, at the end of tri-bar-type aero bars, on the handlebars
and in the grips (depending on the style of bicycle).

If you look really hard you'll still see some on the down tube. :-)

Chip

>> You can get one hell of a bike for $800.00.

you wot?  Is this just another proof that you guys in the US are not only 
overpaid, but that you get everything cheap as well??

		obligatory ;>)

If I thought of getting another frame, it would be between 3500 and 4000 FF, 
which is $700-800 just for that item.  For a complete bike, anything even 
reasonable here would be of the order of 8000 FF, say $1600, and 12000 FF 
($2400) would be more like it.

What with cheap food, cheap cars, cheap petrol and cheap housing - just what 
do you guys DO with your money??

    Well who can live with just ONE bike.  We need a road bike, touring
    bike, mountain bike, tandem...  And matching outfits and 
    the latest Oakley's.
    
    Actually the prices aren't that great when you go to your local bike
    shop.  For $800 you get an RSX equiped tig welded aluminum or steel
    taiwanese frame.  It would be interesting to to a one to one matching
    on prices, ie: Bianchi model xxx.  
    
    I have helped a number of my European friends buy bikes here while on
    business.
    
    steve

re -1.

I'll collect a few examples and post them - I would find the comparison most 
interesting.  I met a guy the other day who buys his tandem tyres from the US 
because they are so expensive here, and I must admit that I save 15% myself by 
buying from the UK even with postage.  That being said there is not a great 
deal of difference between buying Campag in the UK and here, but the best 
thing is to go to Italy (it's only a day's biketrip) - you get the advantage 
of better pizza's.

Please come and explain to my wife why I need 4 bikes, she is having problems 
with understanding.  Mind you, when I suggested selling her one which hasn't 
been used for 3 years, she nearly blew a gasket!

Now let's see, there's the touring bike, there's the training in the rain 
bike, there's the sportif bike, then there's the spare when the sportif bike 
is being maintained ..... then there's the tandem waiting for a brake upgrade 
and I haven't forgiven myself for selling the trike when I moved from the UK 
...

    Although new road bicycles seem relatively expensive for what you get,
    they are still significantly cheaper to purchase and operate than cars.
    At least that is the argument I am using to rationalize a purchase of my 
    main form of transportation.  As long as I keep the car in the garage,
    I feel justified.

    
    I also don't think you can get much of a bike for $800. Hell I paid
    twice that for a four year old used bike. 
    
    Shaw

    One way to justify big bike purchase...
    
    The average person is awake 112 hours.  If you ride 5.5 hours a week
    (75 to 110 miles), you should be able to justify spending 5% of your
    income on bike related stuff.   Many of us ride 10 or more hours
    a week...
    
    steve
    

re -.1

I like this idea, I ride 10-12 hours a week, so I have a good proportion to 
spend.  However, should I send 1/3 of my income on a bed??

As for prices in France, I have a few to offer -

CBT Italia, steel (unspecified) mainly Avanti Ergo - 4500 FF say $900
Peugeot 5000, steel Thron, 105STI, 10.4kg          - 6500FF say $1300
Bianchi G5, steel Col EL, Campag Veloce, 10.8kg    - 8500FF say $1700
Giant CFR 1, carbon, Ultegra, 9.5kg                -11000FF say $2200
Tommasini, steel Col Brain, Athena Ergo, 10kg      -11500FF say $2300
Look, carbon, Jalabert lookalike, Shimano top, 9kg -20000FF say $4000

From this I would say you are looking at 7500FF say $1500 as a starting point.

RE: <<< Note 2963.39 by SALEM::SHAW >>>

>    I also don't think you can get much of a bike for $800. Hell I paid
>    twice that for a four year old used bike. 

Well, you may have higher standards than some. My bike cost me about $300 in
1986. I'd love to get a new $1500-$2000 bike, but I can't justify that kind of
purchase (or I'd rather put that money to some other use, like my kids' college
funds!). Also, I know that I'd never take care of it like it would deserve.

From another perspective, it seems to me that the cost and "quality" curves
don't rise at equal rates -- while the cost continues to rise, the "quality"
seems like it approaches an asymtote). For instance, Can one really say that a
$2000 bike is twice as "good" as a $1000 bike (assuming similar materials,
style, etc.)? I suppose this depends on how you rate a bike. The $2000 bike
certainly won't let you go twice as fast as a $1000 bike. But would it be twice
as fun to ride (even in a blind test, where you didn't know which was the more
expensive one)? Or would it be twice as comfortable on a long ride? Or require
half the maintenance? 

I've never ridden a really expensive bike, so maybe there are some practical
reasons which do make it worthwhile. I'd be interested in the comments of folks
who have experience on a wide range of bikes, as to what might make a really
expensive bike that much better than a merely expensive one.
						-- Tom

RE:                      <<< Note 2963.42 by LHOTSE::DAHL >>>
                    -< What Makes an Expensive Bike Great? >-

>I've never ridden a really expensive bike, so maybe there are some practical
>reasons which do make it worthwhile. I'd be interested in the comments of folks
>who have experience on a wide range of bikes, as to what might make a really
>expensive bike that much better than a merely expensive one.

I don't have much experience on a wide range of bikes, but I do have that
urge to upgrade my Paramount frame to a pro racing frame like a Serotta,
Waterford, or Merckx.

I test rode a Serotta last summer and really liked the ride.  It was more
comfortable than my Paramount.  The cracks and bumps in the pavement seemed
to be soaked up before I felt them.  On my bike, I feel every little seam
and disturbance in the road.  On a longer ride (>50 miles), I feel pretty beat
up by the time I get off.

Other factors which make these expensive frames attractive are:

o comfort - I rate this highest on my priority list
o stiffness - does the bottom bracket sway during a sprint?
o stability -  on the flats and more importantly, on descents
o weight - a little lighter than the mass-produced frames

The Serotta had that unique blend of comfort AND stiffness that these expensive
frames can offer.

-Buddy

    Out of curiousity I checked pricing on Serotta.  Yup(pie), expensive toys.
      CSI $(US) 3030
      TG  $(US) 2261
      TiR $(US) 3755
    They even have mtb models that list at $(US) 4000.  At those prices, 
    I would expect Serotta's to be self propelled !

    Dave, I've been out of the office for a few weeks, so I'm just catching
    up.  In March I bought a '96 Trek 1220 for $799.  It has a triple chain
    ring which, despite what some in here say, will help you as you get
    started in the hills of Colorado.  It has RSX STI components which are
    a level below the 105SC components.  Is was debating between the 1220
    and a 2120.  The main differences between the 1220 and 2120 are:
    
    	1220			2120
    	----			----
    	aluminum frame		composite frame
    	RSX components		105SC components
    	21 speeds		24 speeds
    	(7-speed rear hub)	(8-speed rear hub)
    	toe clip pedals		clipless pedals
    	$799			$1299 (or was it $1399)
    
    I already have clipless pedals, so that didn't matter.  If you want
    clipless pedals, you can get something like the Shimano A525 pedals and
    reasonable shoes for ~$110.  No one in here could convince me that as a
    recreational cyclist, the 1220 wouldn't do just fine.
    
    Bob

    My answer to pricey new rigs is to monitor a local shop that deals
    soley with *previously owned* bicycles, most in the $150-$300 range.  
    They sell on consignment too. Unfortunately a bunch of tall kids unloaded 
    their 58cm machines all at once there and I am looking for a 54 cm.  Frame 
    choices are lots of chromoly, an occasional Al or carbon fiber. 
    Friction shifting is everywhere but that's fine with me.  That's probably 
    why riders are unloading their antiques.
    
    That Trek 1220 sounds like a good value and is on my test drive list.
    How much does it weigh ?
    
    When Colorado Cyclist offers their '96 Fuji's at reduced price, then
    that may be worth considering too.  
    
    The low end Cannondale R300, $679, with 2.8 Al frame and down tube 
    shifters is also a possibility.

    A Trek 1220 and 2120 are both 24.mumble pounds (literally within a few
    ounces of each other).  Another three ring touring bike would be
    the Bianchi Eros, and although it's ChroMo, the lighter Campy ergoshift
    components make for a slightly lighter overall bike than the Shimano-
    equipped Treks.  The Eros goes for about $900.
    K

    After test riding several road bikes I have narrowed the search thus
    far.  Top values include:
    
    o Cannondale R800, Shimano 105 components, Continental Kevlar tires, 2.8
      Aluminum frame, *Sub1 Aluminum fork*  
    
    Any comments on this light fork that requires a special larger diameter 
    headset ?
    
    o TREK 5000, Shimano 105 components, Cont Kevlar tires, OCLV carbon
      fiber frame, Aluminum fork.
    
    Not sure if I want to actually own carbon fiber but it is comfortably 
    stiff and light.
    
    I do like the index shifting and find that Shimano 105 is the lowest 
    I would go.  RSX is significantly sloppier.  It sure is fun test
    riding.  Maybe more fun than owning a bike !  Especially when prices 
    are in the $ 1000-1400 range.

Looking at http://www.cannondale.com/html/products/bikes/r800_main.html would
indicate a carbon fork.  My 2.8 1996 frame came with a carbon fork...

    I believe that the sub1 aluminum fork came with certain 1995 R800's.
    Any suggestions on chromoly frames that when fully equipped are priced
    around $1000 ?