Conference noted::bicycle

    find someone who's good at it and spend some time with them. books
    are fine, but not real-life...
    
    Chip

Hi Pat,

I have a pamphlet type book called "Building Bicycle Wheels". It's a quite
practical guide and I taught myself to build wheels entirely from this book.

It's written by Robert Wright. The following addres appears on the back of the
book:

	Anderson World, Inc.
	P.O. Box 159
	Mountain View, CA 94042

Now I bought this book in the early eighties so there's a chance that this
address is useless

The Library of Congress number is 75-35277.
ISBN: 0-89037-106-7

Anyone in the Nashua area who is good at truing interested in helping (teaching)
me (new to the sport) how to do it?  My rear wheel had a few loose spokes and
its pretty wobbly right about now.  I'm going to try it either Thur or Fri
evening.  Any help would be appreciated.  I suspect that it can't really be as
difficult as it sounds.

Regards,
Tim

    Brad Hill at Goodale's once told me that Mr Goodale had once told him,
    "You can make more money by giving away spoke wrenches than by selling
    them."
    
    No, it's not that hard, but it's not simple either and it's easy, when
    you start at least, to screw it up.  Good luck!
    
    ed

     "You can make more money by giving away spoke wrenches than by
      selling them".  
    
     I could use an extra spoke wrench ... I'll stop by.
    
     Seriously though.  I've built wheels (about 10) using the booklet in .3
     as my only guidance.   Its not that hard and I think the results are
     more likely to be better than a wheel on a middle of the road
     bike. Having said that though I'd probably purchase my next set of
     wheels only because you dont save a lot of money building them
     yourself unless you get a good deal on the parts.  Still its good
     experience to have done a few times.  
    
     My two cents,
    	-Larry  
      

                                                                        
    I always preferr to build new wheels then trying to true them. At least
    you know you are starting out with almost a round rim and all the
    spokes are starting out the same length on each side of th ewheel.
    Truing wheels can be one of the most frustrating things in life
    especially if you don't have patients and a good truing stand.
              
              
                          
    Good Luck,

    Dave => Wheels will Wooble but it won't fall down.

                               
  

Larry & I (well, mostly Larry) trued it during lunch.  It looks very good now. 
And most of the adjustments were on the non-free wheel side and to very loose
spokes.  Let's hope it will stay true.  I'll keep an eye on it.

Tim

    Well, you CAN'T do any worse than at least one of our local shops!
    
    I had a Mavic MA40 rim that broke - pulled out at the eyelet.  No big
    deal, they warrantee them for life.  So I took it into the shop where
    I'd gotten the rim, and requested that they build me a new wheel...  I
    was ABSOLUTELY assured by the manager that his wheel builder was
    experienced, competent, and would do an exemplary job!
    
    When I got the wheel back it 
    
    	a.  wasn't true
    	b.  no longer had the plastic spoke guard
    	c.  had spokes of SIGNIFICANTLY varying length on it!
    
    I discovered all these things by taking the bike for a ride.  About 15
    miles into the ride I downshifted, and managed to throw the chain into
    the spokes with attendant loud noises, immediate stoppage, and
    significant swearing on the rider's part!
    
    I didn't destroy anything so I made it back to the car, but when I
    checked the wheel, there were some spokes with AT LEAST 1/8" of thread
    showing at the nipple, and others with none - ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE
    WHEEL...
    
    So, back to the shop for a little conversation with the boss...  I
    requested that they build the wheel again, that I wanted consistent
    spoke length, and that I wanted the spoke guard re-installed.  AND that
    I wanted the wheel back tomorrow!
    
    They did.  BUT, the second rebuild is built so loosely that it
    literally moves against the brakes when anything puts any side force on
    the wheel - this can be as little as resting my weight on one pedal
    while coasting.  This is enough side force to cause the wheel to
    deform...  
    
    So, tonight I"ll be putting it on my truing stand and doing my own
    rebuild - I"ll use the spokes, but when I'm done it'll be round, and a
    whole lot tighter!  Now I remember why I learned to build my own 5
    years ago and have refused to let anyone build my wheels since!
    
    BTW:  I also had an interesting experience on a supported, 3-day ride
    this weekend.  A young lady and her companion were stopped at the top
    of a hill, she with a badly deformed rear wheel.  I stopped to assist
    and found that SEVERAL spokes were so loose I could turn the nipples
    with my fingers.  I made a few adjustments so she could complete the
    day's ride, but it turns out that the support mechanics had worked on
    her wheel just last night and trued it up for her - yup "got it all
    taken care of!"...  

    I trued up Tim's wheel as he stated in .-2.  We got it reasonably tight
    and round.  There was a great deal of inconsistency in spoke tension on
    the opposite side of the freewheel.  Next day Tim takes it out and it
    gets out of true again.  Tim has retrued it several times since.  The
    spokes are tight when retrued and the spokes are unwound by stressing
    the rim/spokes.  So this is becomming a mystery.   Looks like there
    are a few spokes that refuse to stay put!  Any ideas?
    -Larry

    rim out of round?  joint loose?  nipples pierced? ahhh, err, in bad
    shape?
    
    ed

i agree w/ choice 1 - rim in bad shape
not necessarily only out of round, could be bent in the 'true-ness' plane too
   which would cause undo stress on one set of spokes to 'pull' it into true
and leave the matched pair with noticibly -sp?- less tension

--roger

The rim is probably out of round. 

You could try to hold the lose spoke with a pair of piler while tightening down
on the nipple to prevent spoke twist. But I think this should be a short term
fix and I don't even know if it will work.

To do it right, I would back out all the spokes and start from scratch. Also
put spoke thread lubricant on the thread before starting. This will help
eliminate spoke twist and the spoke will stay put after the lubricant dry up.
                                  
Remember, there is a ratio (I think 3:1) on the number of turns for the
freewheel side to nofreewheel side for the back wheel. I would have to check on
the ratio in my Avocet wheel building book unless some one else can help out.
Also remenber to dish the wheel so it is center.

Hope this will help.

Dave