Conference noted::bicycle

RE: <<< Note 2878.0 by AIMHI::TCC050::LARSON >>>

Vapor barriers are very effective in keeping sweat from getting into insulating
layers. The insulation will be more effective if it stays dry.

Good circulation is very important to warmth. I like my shoes somewhat on the
loose side in cold weather. I have had a pair of neoprene toe covers for a year
or so, which fit inside the shoe. Even thought they're only 1/8th inch thick or
so, they are quite constricting. After 30 minutes at around-freezing temps, my
toes are very cold. I recently bought a pair of neoprene overshoes, and so far
after a couple of 80 minute rides at about 35 degrees, my toes were comfortable
both times. 
						-- Tom

    Neoprene booties make my feet soaked with sweat regardless of how
    low the temp... Hot feet? Just lucky I guess. It has to get c-o-l-d
    for me to wear them.
    
    Chip

    Have you tried GoreTex socks?  Performance sells them for $39.  You
    wear them over your riding socks, inside the shoes.  They may be too
    constricting but would be an effective wind block.  They should also 
    work if you had to put your feet down in wet snow!
    
    Patrick

    I use neoprene socks, shoes, booties.  yea there's a puddle of water
    when I get done and yes, sometime I get really cold anyway and have
    to thaw painfully out in the shower.
    
    ed

    <- Isn't it amazing how scalding tepid (lukewarm) water feels on 
       cold toes!!!
    
       Chip

    
    I indicated that you ride a mountain bike (or I would prefer my 
    moutain bike, as opposed to road bike in the winter) if it is 
    possible for you the replace the clippless pedals for the winter
    with toes clips then your best bet for warm feet our good mountain
    bike or hiking boots. 
    
    Shaw

    

    	I remove the insoles to my shoes to allow for extra width of 
    the neopreme socks. Still after an hour, my toes start to go numb. 
    Part of the problem I believe, is from the restriction of the sock itself.
    	This is my favourite time to ride home from work.  Cool, dark,
    very relaxing ride home. No young legged rider sneaking up from 
    behind forcing an increase in average speed ;^).

    	Is it the cooler weather or what, but I've had three flats in the
    last three weeks!

    
    
        I think that if you are experiencing cold feet while you are riding
    then the problem may be elsewhere, not with your feet.  I would try to
    keep my torso warm (after making sure my feet were dry and not overly
    constricted) because that is where the blood is warmed and it is that
    warm blood that goes to the extremities and keeps them warm.  So what I
    have found is that the longer I can keep it warm on its travel down,
    the warmer will my feet be.  One thing that works well for me (hiking)
    is a down vest.  I too sweat a lot on the extremities and a vest keeps
    the blood warmer longer but allows me to regulate the temp of my
    extremities better.  I think this is one reason the real cowboys
    wore/wear a wool vest.  Those are so warm, I should get one made.  I'll
    have to talk to my wife and get some more scraps from Bldg 19.

    just a thought for you.  Although it's not modern and hi-tech, it works
    for me.

    rich

    As I've mentioned several times in this notesfile, I have the same
    problem which I attribute to wide feet and/or cleated shoes with
    too narrow of a "toe box".
    
    In the winter, I toss the cleats and clips for (horror of horrors) a
    pair of New Balance 4E-width hi top basketball shoes and pedal/toestraps.
    (I also use those clip-in-pedals on my road bike).   No more numbness,
    even after hours in freezing weather.  For even lower temps (down to 0,
    my commuting limit), I use knee-high knicker socks; usually sold
    for cross country skiiers, and put Nashbar neoprene booties over the
    shoes.  Before I discovered the 4E shoes, I found that layering socks
    actually reduced circulation and made my feet go numb faster.
    
    I've been thru hundreds of dollars worth of bike shoes on this problem.
    I spent another hundred on battery-powered socks and soles.  Now that
    I know where the problem is, I'd easily spend another $200 on a pair of
    4E-wide racing shoes if somebody made them (and I've tried New Balance
    "Wide" SPD bike shoes; they really aren't any wider than my Shimano
    R110's). 
    Kratz
    

    
    I agree with .8 in that you should toast the whole body. The bit that
    feels cold may not be the bit that is actually getting cold. Are you
    wearing a good hat. You lose 30% body heat through your head. If you
    are not trapping that in, the body heat that is left is going to be
    spread very thin.
    
    However, reading your note, I take it that you are MTBing. Admittedly,
    we are not subjected to the silly New England tempratures, but I always
    found that it was the wet that froze toes. Is it the water on the
    ground that is maybe causing the problem. The problem with overshoes is
    that they have to have the sole cut out for your cleat. Better than
    nothing, but I always found that the water still crept in here on long,
    wet rides. After changing to Gore-Tex shoes (I had Diadoras for the
    road), I had no more problems.
    
    Graham.

    
    
    	I rode all last winter in some very nasty weather.  On my
    	feet were (and will be again)  a pair of $30 winter boots 
    	I bought at Bradlee's or K-Mart.  You know the kind with 
    	the one-piece rubber sole glued and stitched to a leather
    	upper...Mine have "thinsulate" and some fuzzy stuff on 
    	inside.   Worn with wool over polypro socks and I was
    	literally laughing at some of the worst stuff Mother
    	Nature threw at us. These boots are nice and flexible
    	and waterproof.  Oh...of course toe-clips.  My riding
    	partner had SPDs and neoprene booties but was constantly
    	banging on his cleats and pedals to remove ice.  
    
        Chris
    	

    Having groad up within spitting distance of the arctic circle, I'll
    spew forth some pearls of warm wisdom for youse guys...
    
    Good point about keeping warm.  Specifically the kidneys are most
    exposed, so keep your lower back warm.  Your body is *very* sensitive
    to cold organs and will re-route blood from your extremities to the
    organs affected.  It starts with the toes, coincidentally enough. 
    There are waist wraps made specifically to keep the kidneys warm.
    
    Turtleneck is a must, to keep the wind out, a balaklava will help your
    facial comfort level and keep heat loss from your head down to a
    minimum.  On the other hand, you should be prepared to dump waste heat
    if you start to heat up (open zipper, arm vents, etc).  Once you start
    to sweat, you're hosed.
    
    This neoprene stuff is for the birds.  The ticket is dry, dry, dry. 
    Gore-Tex will keep the water OUT, which will be handy.
    
    Arctic footwear concentrates on the BOTTOM of the foot, where
    circulation is poorest.  Amazingly enough, runners are great because
    all the shock absorbing foam, air bubbles, honeycomb, etc, make great
    insulation for the bottom of the foot.  Hiking boots with vibram soles
    suck eggs for warmth.  The shoe should be loose, to promote
    circulation.
    
    Referring to the above dumping of waste heat, most folks OVER dress for
    the cold, particularly while working.  For me, I switch to a turtleneck
    at about 50.  At 40, long tights and thinsulate gloves.  At 35, the
    balaklava and a long sweatshirt over the turtleneck.  I also switch to
    the tennies at that point.  That'll take me down to about 15 degrees
    with no problem.  Climbing hills, I dump the heat by pulling down the
    balaklava and stretching the turtleneck to cool off.  I have also taken
    off the gloves to cool down, but not often.
    
    I did see a new over-the-shoe toe warmer that looked really good this
    year in Performance catalog.  It looks like it would break the wind
    nicely while adding a bit of insulation.
    
    Mostly what keeps me off the streets is snow.  In Georgia, snow means
    that it becomes very difficult to determine where the cars are going to
    go.  They seldom use the road, preferring sidewalks, ditches and trees.
    
    Later,
    	   Mike

    Yesterday I broke out some of my winter riding gear because I thought
    it was getting somewhat cool.  When I got home it began to snow so I
    guess I'll have to get out the goggles too.  I still was warm but at
    least I wasn't hot with the temp around 30.  To me, this is the best
    time of year to ride.

    One thing I use is a silk turtle neck.  Because while it is very warm
    while dry, when it gets wet it keeps on insulating and dries very fast
    later.  When it gets very cold I have long silk underwear to go under
    my long bike pants, having to put away the shorts for awhile.  Oh, and
    also silk socks to go under my riding socks.  they absorb the sweat away
    and still provide insulation.
    Now if I could get some studded tires and have room for the cars to go
    by I would keep riding all year, but that is not possible so it's
    hiking and x-country time then.

    rich

    Just as a comparison, let me quickly tell you about riding conditions
    in our neck of the woods.
    
    Winter:	Rain is the biggest problem. A really cold day here (around
    Sydney) would see the temperature at about 10 deg C (about 50 F) during
    the daytime. It NEVER snows.
    
    Summer:	Heat is the biggest problem. On a hot day it can get up to
    the low to mid 40's C (about 104-113 F), and the sun can really burn
    you, and the water loss is phenomenal. Really, you'd have to be a bit
    mad to ride under those conditions (which don't happen that often,
    maybe once or twice each summer). Then again I think that about your
    conditions of ice on the roads and in your hair, and in your pedals....
    
    Anyway - gotta go. We're coming into summer, and I have to go and
    adjust the air-conditioner :-)
    
    	Rudi
    		(from god's own country)

        while riding today (the temp was about 20F) I noticed something that
    I'm going to have to test further.  I had put on my silk long underwear
    and my bike shorts under my bike pants and got cold feet.  Now the
    wind was blowing about 20mph so that I had to peddle to get going down
    a long hill so that may be a factor, but one thing I noticed was even
    after I got home my feet stayed cold until I took off the bike shorts
    (which are tight and restrict blood flow) and right as I took them off I
    felt my feet get warm again.  There may have been other factors at play
    here so I do need to test things out but....

    without daylight in the evening I dunno when to ride.  During the
    workweek I've given up - I set up the windtrainer on the balcony and
    I'm out there annoying the neighbors at 5:30am.  This morning there was
    frost - I wore tights over my shorts, a windbreaker over my
    long-sleeved tshirt, full-fingered gloves, regular cleats, and a
    stretch headcover.  Only nice thing about riding a windtrainer is 
    I can skip the helmet.
    
    Weekend riding will take a little bit more preparation, especially to
    keep the feet warm.
    
    DougO

Doug, I agree with you about riding in the evenings - on the road anyway, one 
option we have is a piste down at La Bocca.  It is almost 1 km in length and 
circles the running track and a few football pitches, and is even lit.  It is 
a bit boring, but you quite often get a solid bunch of 20-25 thrashing round.

The other option which I prefer, is to get in at 8 a.m. and steal 1� hours at 
lunchtime straight from the car park.  It's getting a little difficult to 
schedule now, because I do yoga Mondays, Italian Wednesdays, and I normally 
like to get out Tuesdays and Thursdays.  If it wasn't for the money, I'd envy 
my retired clubmates (!!!!).

    Lunchtime rides are definitely all I can do these days, and if you're
    efficient it's pretty easy to sneak an hour and a half to spin round at
    the warmest stage of the day.
    
    Piers

    FWIW, oddly enough, some local bike club uses the ALF parking lot for a
    training ride at night during the winter.  I bet you can get a mile
    easy for each loop - it's lighted, paved and has little traffic. 
    Usually when I see them, it means I've been there way too long and I'm
    too tired to find out who they are.
    
    Anyway, you may consider either a DEC lot (don't laugh at me, I've only
    seen ALF) or some other light industrial lot near where you live for
    some winter carousing.

    Should I admit I ride around the local sh*t plant (.48 mile paved
    loop) at night?  Nah, probably not.  kb

    I too, like several others of you, discovered that I was losing my heat
    on the UNDERSIDE of my feet.  I found putting the padded liners from an
    old pair of running shoes in my cycling shoes helped a lot, simply
    because it introduced an insulation barrier.
    
    David