Conference noted::bicycle

    Could someone list the routes and start times, please?  I'd like to
    watch or avoid going for a ride on the route.
    
    I couldn't find this info in the other two notes on the Longsjo (758 &
    2566).
    
    Jamie

    Prologue is 2:00pm to 5:00pm on Friday at the BEST WESTERN off
    Rte. 31... (course runs up Rte. 31 - 7 mi?).
    
    John Fitch is Saturday with the first race going off at 9:00am.
    It's a three mile loop starting on Pearl St then running out 
    onto the John Fitch Highway (running south toward the WALLACE CC).
    The pros are doing 78 mi I believe).
    
    The Criterium is Sunday in the center of Fitchburg and is the same
    course as a lot of the past years. Don't have exact start time, but
    it'll be around 8:30 - 9:00 for the first races. The pros are doing
    50 mi.
    
    Monday will be the Mt. Wachusett stage. The loop's the same but I think
    they moved the starting line (was the lodge). Start time (again) will
    be early for the first races 8:30 - 9:00. The pros are doing 105 mi.
    
    This is from memory but should serve for your purposes...
    
    Chip

    	The Pro criterium on Sunday usually begins about 2:00 PM,
    	although there is other racing going on prior to 2:00 PM.
    
    	Scott

    	Arrived in Fitchburg and met up with Jude Arsenault (former digital
    	employee) and Phil. Early enough to see most of the women's
    	race. Yelled a lot for Nancy Powers, who came in 5th or 6th.
    
    	Found out the Pro race didn't start until 3 PM. Coors Light
    	and the LA Sheriffs were there. Scott McKinley won the crit.
    
    	Seemed like spectator attendance was down, even during the
    	pro race. I have no idea why. Weather was great. Low humidity
    	and in the 80s.
    
    	Scott

     I did the circuit and the crit and bowed out of the mountain
     stage. Had a terrible weekend. I'm afraid my season is pretty
     well screwed up. Of course, that's not to say I would've have
     done well anyway. The fields (all CATS) were extremely strong.
    
     One of our riders slammed into the back of a pick-up truck at
     the prologue (the stupid driver wouldn't get out of the way).
    
     He came out sore and bruised. The only tube that wasn't bent
     on his bike was the head tube. Both wheels were literally
     snapped in half, derailleur hanger snapped off, bar crunched,
     etc... The only part that really survived was the Kestrel EMS
     fork. It came out of the experience in pristine condition.
    
     He's verrry lucky!
    
     Chip
         

    Allright, I give up...
    why did the cyclist run into the back of a pickup truck,
    and why was the driver stupid?  Unless the pickup truck was
    violating some law in being where it was, the cyclist will
    not only be paying for a new bike (sans fork), but also
    paying for any damage to the truck's tailgate.  kb

    The guy in the pick-up was being screamed at to move out of the
    way. He started pulling off then pulled back and stopped...
    
    The driver was S-T-U-P-I-D because there were hundreds of signs
    pointing out the fact that there was a race going and (IMHO of
    course) was completely zoned (just like the cop in the coma during
    Stage 1 of the TdF). He passed Scott, wanted to go into the dump
    and then froze). My guess is his insurance company will be buying 
    a new frame... A local lawyer and avid cyclist has spoken with 
    Scott... I'll let you guys know what happened.
    
    I'll admit, it could've been avoidable (by Scott), so could every
    mistake ever made by a thinking mammal.
    
    Chip

    Well, assuming the truck was stopped and legal where it was,
    Mass State Law says the cyclist is 100% at fault.  If the race
    course was legitimately closed off to traffic, then it would be
    a different story.  If the race course was not closed off, then
    perhaps the cyclist can go after the race organizers, but they're
    probably well protected with a entry form disclaimer.  Putting a
    race course that goes by a open town dump entrance on a weekend is
    asking for trouble.
    
    P.S. I wouldn't be so quick as to blame the TdF crash on the cop
    either.  There were just too many sprinters for the width of the
    finish chute.  As I saw it, the rider that hit him put his head
    down and drifted to the right.  If it wasn't that cop, it would
    have been the next (although at least one saw it coming and dove
    into the crowd!)  kb  

As we were walking back down from the summit after the Pro men finished, the
Princeton cops & ambulance went flying up the mountain. Somebody get clipped
on the way down ?

-tom

    I rear ended a pickup that pulled off the road and came to a sudden
    stop in front of me in 1973 in order to pick up a hitchiker.  I never
    got a hand on a brake, flipped over and crashed through his camper door
    back first in the blink of an eye.  The bike ended up crushed under the
    trucks bumper.
    
    He had to fix his camper and me, and buy me a new bike.  Cops ruled his
    fault.  It might have been negligence, though I don't recall.  Whatever
    the official cause, the fact was this guy passed me and pulled to a
    sudden stop, which placed him at fault legally.  
    
    Later,
    	  Mike

     -.1 Thanks Mike... :-)
    
      I can't agree that it might not be fair to blame the cop. Actually,
      I blame him and the organizers for even having them in the road.
      I've never seen that before at a sprint. Absolutely a mindless
      decision.
    
      If you watch the sprint the officer isn't even paying attention. 
      And to fault the rider for having his down during a sprint isn't
      even worth arguing over. Would ther have been a crash anyway?
      Maybe? Maybe not? But to introduce an element that will almost
      gaurantee it... I think retarded pretty much sums it up.

      "...for having his <head> down..."
    
      Sorry, it's early...

��      I can't agree that it might not be fair to blame the cop. Actually,
��      I blame him and the organizers for even having them in the road.
    I'm certainly no lover of copys, but with the size of the
    crowd at that point, it seems to me that if the cops hadn't
    been there, the spectators would have crowded into the road.

��      If you watch the sprint the officer isn't even paying attention. 
    His job is to pay attention to the crowd -- to make sure no
    over-eager fan jumps into the road to take that 'special'
    picture.

��                    <<< Note 2804.7 by WMOIS::GIROUARD_C >>>

��    The guy in the pick-up was being screamed at to move out of the
��    way. He started pulling off then pulled back and stopped...
    It's pretty ironic that there are lots of notes in this
    conference entered by cyclists pissed off at drivers
    screaming at them.

    Re. TdF Stage 1
    
    I agree with Chip. Yes, Nelissen would've crashed anyway, but why
    should that excuse the policeman. He was there to control the finish
    not take photographs...
    
    Re. The truck
    
    When you say he pulled back, do you mean reverse. If so, then surely
    he's at fault for reversing onto oncoming traffic?
    
    Graham.

     Well, I've never seen police on the sprint section before lined
     up like that... Hmmmm, I wonder if we'll see it again? NOT...

    KB,
    
         I agree fully with the points you made.  I don't know what the
    laws in Georgia are involving rearend crashes but the one in this
    state is very clear.  If I was the driver of the truck, I would not
    be intimidated into paying for a new bike, I would hire a good 
    lawyer and fight until hell froze over, if need be.  It's about time
    that cyclists who make technique and logical mistakes take
    responsibility for what happens.  I am tired of encountering cyclists
    who act like children or who try to defend those who do.
         Concerning the cop at the Tour, if the detractors have ever
    watched video of past Tours then they would clearly see that plenty
    of Policemen ( and photographers ) have been on the road side of the 
    barricades during sprints.  What the people blaming the cop are failing 
    to mention is that the rider who collided with the policeman had his head 
    down and had moved about two feet horizontally prior to hitting the cop,
    he would have hit the barricades anyway and probaly injured some
    fans.  Regardless of the USCF logo, the proper way to sprint is to
    keep the face straight ahead, it's better aerodynamically and is a 
    lot safer. 

     -.1 So what's the point? Tired? Please take a nap...
    
         We shall see. BTW, I do believe your remarks were aimed in this
         direction. I don't have a lot of patience for whiney, holier
         than though, it's mine all mine, cyclists either. Just about
         the amount I have with the sactimonius ones.
    
         I fail to see the an argument with the logic. People in the road
         during a field sprint? Next we'll have obstacle course finishes.
         
         Not paying attention to what's happening when you've got a 187
         pro cyclist hurtling at you at 45mph? Taking a snapshot?
    
         Sorry, this stuff rings up No Sale on my register!
    
         Chip

>         Concerning the cop at the Tour, if the detractors have ever
>    watched video of past Tours then they would clearly see that plenty
>    of Policemen ( and photographers ) have been on the road side of the 
>    barricades during sprints.  What the people blaming the cop are failing 
>    to mention is that the rider who collided with the policeman had his head 
>    down and had moved about two feet horizontally prior to hitting the cop,
>    he would have hit the barricades anyway and probaly injured some
>    fans.  Regardless of the USCF logo, the proper way to sprint is to
>    keep the face straight ahead, it's better aerodynamically and is a 
>    lot safer. 
    
    Photographers are usually behind the finish line so they can catch the
    winner. Even so, photographers are vetted by the Societe and you can be
    sure that they are more in control because they do this day in, day
    out. The police at Armentieres were unlikely to have ever done a Tour
    before, since this was only the Tour's second vist ever. Anyway, that's
    irrelevant. Abe, have you ever tried to sprint for a Tour de France
    stage win at 45mph, knowing that your job depends on it? Imagine being
    in that situation, knowing that you are struggling and frustration is
    forcing every last ounce of energy out of your body down onto the
    pedals. It takes effort to keep your head up at 45mph, I'm quite sure
    that you'd drop your head too....
    
    As I said in my note, Nelissen would've crashed anyway, but that does
    not excuse the policeman. He wasn't there as a photographer. If he
    wanted to be a photographer, then he should've applied to the Presse
    office of the Tour where he could've been vetted.
    
    Graham.

    Sorry Graham, the most efficient and fastest way to sprint is with
    one's face straight ahead, not with the head down.  Maybe the 
    crashed sprinter will have a longer career once he learns to always
    keep his head up.  By the way I've never sprinted in the Tour de France 
    because I am trained and PAID to be an Engineer, you can bet that I
    don't slam my head on my desk to get a little extra out of my brain,
    in the end such a thing is self-defeating and gives me no edge.
    
    Chip, what I said stands, I care not that you don't buy it.  I have
    little patience for people who ride like jerks or for those who try to
    defend their behavior.  Everyone has a viewpoint on common life issues,
    I disagree with the position that you take, that does not make me
    whiney or holier-than-thou, I simply don't agree with your position.
     

re .19

>>>   office of the Tour where he could've been vetted.

Personally, I think he should have been neutered.....

    
    Judge Hang'em high Hemmings.... :-)
    
    Abe,
    
    Why is it more efficient? You stated earlier aerodynamics, but
    aerodynamics count for little when sprinting. It's all about pure
    strength, and it requires strength to keep your head up when you are in
    that position. If you are struggling, it is the most natural thing in
    the world to drop your head to reduce the effort there. Banging your
    head on the desk to think better is a stupid and irrelevant analogy.
    
    I have discouraged club riders in the past for sprinting head down. a)
    You are not on a closed road, b) you are not on a road surface of superb
    quality and c) at their level they are only riding for pride. I think
    the problem is that you are criticising a rider in a position that you
    can't understand because you have never been in. He is not facing
    oncoming traffic, the road is in immaculate condition as demanded by
    the Societe and his livelihood depends on it. Very, very few riders in
    here have ever sprinted with just one of those factors, and I'd say that 
    not one has ever had to face the last one. 
    
    Nelissen was paid to win, no matter what it took. To some that may seem 
    an extreme and foolish outlook, but if you want to compete at this level, 
    you must have that level of aggression and accept that you may have to pay 
    the price...
    
    Graham.
             

     I turned down the offer from the Societe to do the TdF this year...
    
     My aunt's parakeet had diarrhea and she needed consoling ;-)

    Graham,
    
         The head forward position is only what coaches who know what they
    are doing teach their riders ( your club non withstanding ). 
         The banging the head on the desk is a corollary ( need a
    definition? ).  Look, this discussion is assinine and going nowhere,
    I'm bugging out.
    
     

     -1 Head up or down?  :-)

    .24
    
    Holy cow! They need coaches to tell them to look where they're going? 
    Are you sure they aren't DEC engineers?
    
    ;-)
    
    ps... sounds like the rider had a momentary lapse under stress.  Anyone
          out there never done the same (hit the ditch, run a stop,,,)?

     I'll never admit to almost going off the road by day dreaming...
    
     Nope, never happened or I never almost went off the road because
     I was distracted by something... Nope... 
    

    
    During the TdF coverage the other day, they replayed the incident and
    the commentator said that the police office was taking a phote for a
    young lady in the crowd when he was hit.  It must have been an award
    winning perspective!!!
    
    Jim                    

    
    I'm not EVEN going to take sides on this!  BUT, saying the TdF rider
    would have crashed anyway doesn't make sense to me.  
    
    On 'occasion' ;-) I will (after looking up the road for obstacles) put
    my head down and ride using the line as guidance.  So I figure the
    rider could have been sighting the side fencing/barricade.  No? Oui?
    
    	- Tim

     I think the question of the crash being inevitable is one of 
     opinion and both sides have solid ground for their positions.
    
     But Tim, don't get political on us! Jump into fray and have some
     fun! :-) Really, it is fun!
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
     Chip

    
    Nelissen was veering too far right to be using the barriers, IMHO...
    
    Graham.