Conference noted::bicycle

     Was the original set-up indexed?
    
     Is the Ultegra derailleur indexed?
    
     How old are these derailleurs? Pre-7spd? Pre-8spd?
    
     Compatability issues? Shimano? You can bet on it!
    
     Chip

Though they tell you otherwise, most Shimano equipment is compatible, EXCEPT FOR
DURA-ACE.  Since thin indexing is in the shift levers derailleurs will be
compatible as long as they respond with the same amount of movement for a given
amount of cable movement.  If the Ultegra derailleur is only 1 or 2 years old,
then it will most likely work.

The most time consuming part of changing a derailleur is adjusting it after
you've put it on the bike.  You'll have to adjust the limit screws so that it
covers the necessary range.  The barrel adjuster is used to fine tune the
position.

Rich

I have a 2 year old bike with RX100 derailleurs and Ultegra STI shifters
(upgrade done last year), it works fine.

     I love this! It'll be compatable if there isn't a lot of time 
     between manufacturing... Of course, working fine is a relative
     term :-) The again, Shimano has that "friction" option just
     in case things don't work out -- Bwawawawawaaaaaaaaaaaaa :-)

         I agree with Rich (splaaaaaaa!, Chip).  You can mix and match
    105 and Ultegra pretty much as you desire.  Shimano components ALWAYS
    require some adjustment before you hit the sweet zone, but once there
    you hardly ever have to adjust again.
                                        
         Abe;

    Chip,
    
      The old bike is about 7 years and does not have index shifting. It's
    the old shift till you get it in the right gear! The Ultgra derailleur
    was put on last December so it's never seen road miles, just trainer
    miles. The new Cannondale is actually a left over '93 so with that in
    mind, hopefully all the Shimano components are factory '93's.
    
      I was hoping to see a couple replies like .2 saying it's a fairly
    simple swap mechanically. The only hassle being getting the adjustment
    screws set up right. What do you think?
    
    Mike
    

     Sounds like it shouldn't be a problem. Getting the indexing
     adjusted is the worst (or hardest part). 
    
     Somewhere in here is a step by step set of instructions. It really
     isn't bad to do. Just make sure you "neutralize" your adjusting
     screws and barrels so that you can go either way with them. 
    
     Start tuning in the gears with the chain on the big cog (small chain-
     ring). 
    
     Starting off requires patience. Once you've done it, there's no magic.
    
     Good luck, and to the other guys...  :-pppppppppppppppppppppppppp's
    
     Chip

         If you have a new derailleur that is indexed just install a set
    of indexed shift levers, this and some adjustments will solve your 
    problems.  Indexing at the lever comes from the internals of the lever 
    not from any fixture of the bike frame.
    
        Abe;

    The main difference between 105 and Ultegra is finish:  Ultegra is 
    anodized, 105 is painted.  The performance is the same, so there's another
    stunt Shimano pulls:  Ultegra is mainly a cosmetic upgrade.  It does not
    improve performance.  It may enhance durability a little, since Ultegra
    sometimes uses metal where 105 uses plastic.
    
    Unless you have a photographic memory, keep the directions that come
    with the derailleur.  After 20 years of doing my own work, I still 
    find installation goes quicker when I'm reading than it does when I'm 
    remembering.
    
    Justin

If the 105 stuff works, why bother making the change?


Rod

    At this point, I'm asking myself the same question. Is it really worth
    the time and effort to switch over? If there really is no difference
    between the two other than cosmetics, it doesn't make sense. I've never
    seen a side by side comparison of the two which showed differences or
    advantages of the Ultegra. Have to admit, the Ultegra does look much
    nicer.
    
    What do you all think, is it worth doing? 
    
    BTW, thanks for all the inputs so far!
    
    Mike
    

    I had all Ultegra components on my road bike until last year when my
    front derailleur blew 2 days before a race.
    
    Bike Alley threw on a new 105 and it's worked great ever since.  I
    believe I have a couple of 105 cogs in the back, too.  IMHO, it's not 
    worth it to change over.
    
    rb

This bring up another interesting question.  If the biggest difference
between Ultegra and 105 is the finish, then what's the difference between
105 and RX100?

Back 3 years ago when I bought my Schwinn Paramount Series 3, I had the choice
of RX100 or buying the Series 5 Paramount which used 105.  Back then, they were
both 7 speed index shifting on the down tube.  I was told the only difference
between the shimano components was the finish.  If this is the case, then
it's possible that the RX100 is functionaly equivalent to the Ultegra, although
the RX100 group does lag behind the technology a little bit.  For example,
I think STI shifters are new to RX100 for this model year.

It makes you wonder, is it really worth the price difference between RX100,
105, and Ultegra 600?

Sounds like the answer is no, if they all are functionaly equivalent.

Opinions?

-Buddy

The finish is one of the main difference between the upgrades. But the 
tolerances of the moving parts are also tighter (IE: cones, racers, bearing
etc..) in the more expensive components. This is effect make the units a 
little smoother in shifting, rolling etc... Also the seals are improve as you
move up the line. If you take apart the BB, hubs etc.. between a 105 and 
a 600, you will notices the seals are designed differently between them.

There are several other mechanical design, cosmetic and component processing
differences between them. But in the end, if you can feel the difference, then
you might buy the more expensive components. If you don't, then why waste your
money.

Kind of like Stereo Equipment to me. I can't  hear the difference between a
$1000 CD player verse a $250 one. 

Dave 

    Buddy,
    
         I read something in Bicycling Magazine once that stated that the 
    RX100 gruppo was the beneficiary of proven technology upgrades from the 
    105/Ultegra gruppos.  If this is correct, then there are periods where the 
    RX100 gruppo will be inferior to 105 ( assuming the upgrades are positive,
    overall I think that Shimano has a good track record in this regard ).
         If a person pays attention and ask the right questions then he or
    she can save money by buying RX100 instead of Ultegra.  I don't 
    understand how the pricing discrepancy comes about in a case when
    RX100 and 105 are equivalent but it is possible that it is not all
    Shimano's fault.  Justin made a point on the materials differences 
    between Ultegra and 105, in this case a price difference can be
    explained.
         In the 8 years that I have actively ridden bicycles, I have found
    that the price/carefree operation/overall performance advantage of my
    Ultegra gruppos is so great that I don't quibble about paying a few
    bucks more than I would pay for 105 ( I tried one of another 
    manufacturer's gruppos once and ended up loosing hundreds of dollars
    when I got sick of it and stripped it all off in favor of Ultegra ).
    
         Abe;
     

    ...and FWIW, there was a pretty big change between last year's 105
    rear derailluer and this year's.  Best place I've seen for a rear
    is $29.95 at Nashbar.  kb  

    Re .15,
    
         Is the "throw" better on this year's model?  One problem with the
    old derailleur was if you used 8-speed it was hard to reach the biggest
    freewheel easily ( after a lot of adjustment, sweat and #$%&*+=, I 
    could setup a useable reach.
    
         Abe;

    The new one has 8sp stamped on it, but (I hate to admit this)
    I'm using it on a pre-hyperglide 6sp setup.  kb

    
    Just to add more questions here.  I have a Shimano 105 setup with bar
    end shifters.  How complicated and pricey would it be to switch to STI?
    Im not sure if I would do it this year or look at an upgrade for next 
    year.  
    
    Thanks
    
    MikeR
    

    Just wanted to drop one last note in here and say thanks to everyone
    for their inputs. I've decided not to do the swap to the Ultegra
    right now. Everything works great as is, so I don't want to mess with 
    it. If I still have the old bike around in the winter, I'll do the 
    change over then.
    
    Mike