Conference noted::bicycle

    I'm using a Rolls these days.  I wore out a couple of Selle Super
    Turbos before that.  I've never been into light saddles, or the gel or
    suspended types.  The Rolls is firm, but comfortable, so far.

  I really like my San Marco Regal.

  It looks similar the the brooks because it has the big copper studs
along the top at the back of the saddle.  Its a little longer than most
saddles.  It has copper rails.  There are also two versions.  A textured
version and a smooth version.  The textured version will become mostly
smooth after a while of riding.  I think it weights in around 400 grams.
I *ALMOST* alway opt for comfort over lightness.

  JC

    Justin,
    
         I have the Selle San Marco 601 suspension saddle on both of my
    bikes.  The saddle has Titanium rails that are suspended on two
    Perelli designed rubber bumpers.  The only problem that I have had 
    was that I slipped around on both saddles during the first ride or
    two on them, the slipping stopped once the leather developed some
    tackiness ( yes, leather can have this too!!! ).  I love the saddle,
    I no longer have a tired butt after even the longest rides.  I have
    used vaseline and Descent tights for a while now, both work well 
    against saddle sores, with the new saddles, I don't expect to ever
    have the saddle sore problem.
         Hope this helps.
    
           Abe;
    
     

Note 22 in MOVIES::EURO_RANDONNEUR could be worth a glance.  I know we are a 
load of OF's and not real racers, but we do a few miles and comfort is our 
watchword.  Look out for the Raid report of 700+ km in 82 hours - you don't 
do that on an uncomforatable saddle!

... or even an uncomfortable one....

     This won't help you Justin, but I use the Flite Evolution. I've
     mentioned in other notes how surprised I've been with its comfort
     (or my lack of nerve endings in all the right places). I just
     bought another one for my TT bike.
    
     How much is the saddle really a contributor to saddle sores anyway?
    
    
          Chip

    
>     How much is the saddle really a contributor to saddle sores anyway?
    
    A factor, but not the main one. Most people that develop saddle sores
    don't get them after changing to a new saddle. They get them from the
    saddle that they have been using for years. Any dirt between you and
    the saddle will cause the most cases. I'm not saying that everyone who
    has ever had saddle sores is a clertty bugger and doesn't wash regular,
    but you'll find that rainy rides have a large tendency to cause them.
    You're crotch is wet so is a lot more sensitive and the rain spray from
    your back wheel is not clean water. If that soaks through, you can be
    looking at problems...
    
    Graham.

    A lot of folks "grease up" with Vaseline, but you get a much better 
    antiseptic effect from a product called Bag Balm, which you can buy at
    your local Agway.  It's original direction is "Massage thoroughly and
    allow ointment to remain for full antiseptic and softening effect on
    the udder" -- which is why it's sold at Agway.
    
    Graham is correct:  since a saddle sore is an infection, and infections are 
    caused by germs, keeping yourself clean (and not hanging out in your 
    shorts after the ride) is the primary preventative measure.  
    
    Your saddle is a factor only in that one which doesn't fit you (i.e., has 
    pressure points you are conscious of, and which don't go away), creates 
    tender or chafed spots on you that are more susceptible to infection.
    
    Justin

    I like whoever it was that said something about preferring that the
    saddle change shape to accommodate the body rather than trying to
    force things to work the other way around.
    
    As a result, I've always preferred leather saddles and swear by my
    Brooks - even without the Ti rails. The additional few ounces that
    the copper rails cost me I can shed from my body easily enough.
    
    	/Harry

hi justin,

wanna sell your old turbomatic Ti?

the guy who manages the bike store that sponsors my club has just put a brooks
Ti on his bike. i don't know how much it weighs exactly but seem to remember he
told me it weighs around the same as a standard racing saddle *without* ti
rails. i would guess that puts it into the 400gm range. sounds about right as
the old style one was ~550 grams. the new brooks Ti seems to be a bit more "cut
away" then it's forbear too.

i watch what the euro-racers are riding and it seems that saddles are one area
where they aren't using the ultra light stuff. on this years tour coverage i was
watching whenever the riders stood to see what was under their backsides. seems
like rolls and regal were real popular. 

   One note about saddles that may be helpful - I like to have one of
   those lycra covers over the saddle since it gives an extra layer
   of something that slides easily.

   Also, especially during the cold wet seasons, I put some plastic
   (like from bags at the produce market or other thin plastic shopping
   bags) under the lycra, it keeps the saddle dry in the rain.

   The plastic bags don't last all that long, but there's an infinite
   supply of them, so I just stick another one under now and then.

   This works better than the waterproof saddle covers I've tried, which
   don't let you slide and shift position on the seat as comfortably and don't
   really stay watertight all that long anyway.  And the lycra covers are
   inexpensive.

   - Jim

    
    The problem that I've had with lycra covers is that there are times
    when it is too slidey. Especially when climbing/grinding my way up a
    hill and I'm try to push myself into the back of the saddle, I don't
    want a saddle that feels as if it has been coated in Duckhams...
    
    But, the worlds a twisted place...  :*)
    
    Graham.

    I was watching both the front and the rear of the pro cyclists, and I
    saw a lot of yellow saddle noses (Turbomatic) when watching the front.
    Seems to me I remember stories of the great Eddie using a Brooks when
    he had butt trouble.

    
    
    Does anyone here know all the models that Selle San Marco has/makes
    and approximate prices. 
    
    The reason I ask, after not succeeding in locating the Saddle that 
    I was looking for, I ended up with a San Marco titanio 200, leather
    on titanium railings. This saddle was a bit light than the flight, 
    and more comfortable for me, it was listed at the bike shop for 
    $100.00 and I got a %30 off deal. I just want to know if I paid too 
    much or not and if anyone knows about this saddle  since it was not 
    mentioned anywhere. 
    
    I have it on my both my mountain bikes now, and am searching for the 
    ideal saddle for my road bike.  The only Brooks that I could find had
    brass railing and it weight quite a bit more than anything else good. 
    plus I thought the nose was a bit too long. 
    
    Thanks, 
    
    Shaw

    so you paid about $70?  You might have done a little better in a
    catalog but add $5 for shipping and it wouldn't be better.
    
    I haven't seen any lightweight Brooks, like with Ti rails or
    anything in the USofA.  Maybe it's something the Brits 'ave
    that we don't.  I think lightweight and Brooks are antonyms anyway.
    I have the Brooks on my Masi with SLX and SP tubing so what's
    another lb anyway?
    
    ed

    
    Ed, yes I did pay $70. The nice thing about buying from the 
    shop directly is that they let me try 'em on my bike before 
    purchase.  However this particular shop 'GUS international bikes' 
    in Hampton has limited choices. The saddle that I mentioned is 
    quite comfortable comapred to the flite on my road bike but 
    since the price is way up there and I have never seen an add
    or any reference to this particular model I just wondered where
    I stand. 
    
    Shaw

    Yes, Gus [really John] has a nice operation, let's you try stuff.
    
    ed

    
    Ed, I am glad you know John, I have a question for you then. If you
    have been to his store lately. One of his mechanics the older guy
    has a Kestrel 4000 (is that an older model?) Dura Ace equipted, 
    the only downfall it is, is the down tube shifting, it probably is 
    not a good idea to think of modifying that, would leave behind
    holes? However the bike fits me perfect. They guy first wanted 1500
    but will sell now for $1200.00 what do you think? Is the 4000 an older
    model. not the same frame as the 200s. I like the comfort of the 
    Kestrel. As I am not a racer but like to ride fast and long rides. 
    (20 - 30 miles on days that I ride)
    
    Shaw 

    
    If I read that right, you are worried that by changing form down-tube
    to STI/Ergo will leave holes where the current down tube levers are? If
    so, then there is no problem. The bosses at the down tube are used as
    cable guides on STI/Ergo...
    
    Graham.

    I have a 4000, circa 1989.  The earlier 4000's, I have heard, are a bit
    dead feeling but 89 on should be great.  See if it has Spectra fibers
    in it, if not it could be one of the earlier ones.  I have ergo
    shifters on mine, 7 speed setup setup and works fine.  Please note, the
    front fork is probably aluminum, SR Prism?  I heard rumors, not
    substantiated that large sizes in the 4000 were not liked heavily due
    to unstability.  
    
    If it is an old model, one other problem you may have is no Hyperglide
    capability.  This could make STI more expense.  
    Steve

    
    
    Re:-2 yes one concern was the holes left in tube, it being a 
     monocoque (sp?) body. the front fork is aluminum. I would change
     it to EMS fork it I purchased the bike. I ride a Trek 5200 and
     although it is kinda of hard that exactly what is was the made 
     it more comfortable, the Kestrel (although not fitted for me) felt
     like it was a better fit. and the ride not as sensative as the 
     Trek, (I didn't feel every little crack on the road up the seat post)
     Or could it have been that pscologicaly I was prepared to like the 
     Kestrel, either way I though $1200 might be a good price. Selling
     on of the MTBs should provide extra dollard for the EMS fork and
     a second set of wheels. 
    
     Shaw

    Yes, sounds like a good price.  I've bought a couple of things from
    George before, he's a bike weenie like the rest of us and just trades
    up all the time.  As Grahem mentioned changing from down tube shifters
    to STI of even flites won't leave the holes behind because they
    are used for cable stops.
    
    You think the 5200 gives a harsh ride?
    
    ed

    
    re: 5200, no I love the 5200. But I also loved the feel of the 
    Kestrel. It is hard for me to pin point but overall, I felt like
    I would last longer on the Kestrel. Or  maybe its just an urge, 
    I've always loved the appearance of the bike. All in all if I 
    don't buy this one, I will still be hunting. It is good to have 
    more than one bike.  For me being the recreational rider that I am
    having a choice on which ride to take out on a Saturday morning throws
    a little more excitment into the day. I used to have a 2300 Trek and
    and an RB-1 and switching bikes there was a noticable difference and
    it made even riding the same route different. Both those bikes were
    cashed in to accomodate another winter hobby. ;-)
    
    Shaw

RE: .14  San Marco saddles

  Nashbar lists 4 saddles:

	Bontrager Titanium	$74.88
	Suspension Ti		$67.88
	Titanio 200		$63.88
	Concor Light Ti		$59.88

  Shipping (US):

	Ground			$5.99
	Overnight Air		$8.99

    
    
    Thanks for posting the prices. Well I guess I didn't do too badly.
     $63.00 + 8.00 = 71.00
    
    I got mine at %30 of $100 store price, 70.00.
    
    Shaw

    
    Went back to see George's Kestrel again. He has changed the components
    it now has 8 speed Dura Ace STI. bike is circa 89 (spectra fibre)
    now he is asking $1500 but it will cost an additional $300+ for me to
    add an EMS fork. So almost $2000 for a bike that has a five year old 
    frame? I know I love the feel of the bike now but we're not talking TI 
    here. 
    
    Shaw

    Since the price before was $1200, offering him this with the other
    options, STI EMS Fork at his cost, probably about $400 totalling $1600.
    
    Steve

    
    $1500 is the price withe STI and the regular alum... fork it comes
    with. As for the EMS fork, I will have to buy it from the shop at 
    around 300+.  Maybe EMS fork can wait till my birthday ;-)
    
    Shaw