Conference noted::bicycle

    Nancy,
    First if you had a Fit Kit done, meaning they used all the measurements
    they took from you, some places only use the upper body measurements,
    arm measurements etc. It just depends on whether they used all the info
    or maybe just some of it!! I would advise you to get another stem too!!
    
    As for the tune up, it depends on what they are actually doing to the
    bike. If they are replacing all cables for brakes and deraillieurs and
    the bike has indexed shifting, these cables will be a little more then 
    the older friction type cables. If they are regreasing the hub, bottom
    bracket, head set, etc then these are a fairly time consuming jobs.
    Also if your wheels need to be trued this will add to it. Basically if
    your bike is only 2 years old then I would tend to believe that $100.00
    is too much, but maybe this person is including the stem in the
    $100.00, then that might be a decent deal. If I where you, I'd call 
    around to some other bike shops. I know Bicycle Alley in Worc. offers
    3 different tune ups, depending on what the bike needs, I think they 
    start out at around $40.00.
    
    Good luck-
    Tim

     Hi Nancy... A $100.00 is about right for a full-blown tune-up. This
    means all brearings repacked (BB - H/S - Hubs), everyhting gets a bath
    including the frame. All necessary adjustments to everything that does
    requiring adjusting. In other words, when you jump on the bike it's
    practically worry-free for the season. Unless stated, the cost of
    anything needing replacing is usually extra.
    
     Now, the stem. Unless you go with a "specialty stem" or a headset
    extension, most stem shafts are standard length. Where the sizes
    come into play are the reach. I can't see a stem shaft being too
    short if the frame and all other adjustments are correct (including
    the stem reach) unless there is an unusual body type involved here.
    
     If you bought the bike there and you got the FIT KIT done there, and
    you do need a different stem, on the surface, it sounds like
    they screwed. Not knowing whether you just have a special requirement,
    however, I'll pass on the judgement. Chelmsford has always carried
    a good rep in these parts.
    
     Good Luck,
    
                Chip

RE: <<< Note 2667.0 by ALFA1::PEASLEE >>>

>    ...there is approximately a 4 - 6
>    inch difference in the height that was fitted and the height I am
>    comfortable with.

WOW! Four to six inches? Good golly, that's a huge change. Where is the top of
the stem, with respect to the top of the saddle? E.g., about the same height as
the saddle, an inch lower, etc. What was the old value of this measurement? I
really have a hard time believing that the change could be that huge. A typical
adult palm is about four inches across (not counding thumb), for example.

Some racers like really low stems (three or four inches below the seat), while
many recreational riders like the stem about the height of the seat. So there
is a very large range here, able to cover your 4-6 inch figure, but I'd think
that the bike wouldn't have been set up with such a low stem (unless maybe you
have a very long inseam, requiring a very high seat).

Stems do have varying length stafts which fit into the steerer tube. I bought a
longer (reach) stem some time ago, and it's steerer-tube shaft must be three
inches longer than the shaft of the old one. In fact I wasn't able to get the
stem quite as low as I wanted, because it runs up against the brake bolt or
something near the bottom of the steerer.
						-- Tom

    Ditto Tom's remarks-
    
    Also, new cyclists often find the "fit kit" height for a stem to be
    restrictive to their breathing.  Many are accustomed to the very erect
    position offered by the old "banana-seat" racer.
    
    r�

	This is a common complaint among women.  Frames are designed
	for men (except at least Georgina Terry's bikes), and women
	tend to be proportionally shorter in the body and longer in
	the legs.  Thus a standard frame and gooseneck length (not
	height) can be too long.  

	I presume you're going to a shorter stem.  This has a good chance
	of solving the problem.  Raising the stem height doesn't really
	change the reach, so use the recommended height. (After, maybe,
	some remedial exercises for your back muscles.) Saddle discomfort
	complaints (affecting areas one shouldn't sit on) are also
	associated with this long reach problem.

	If the problem persists, look into getting a Terry.  There is
	a model available with a triple as the 1420 has, but the
	middle chainring size is kinda weird (or at least it was
	3 years ago).  I recommend matching the ratios on your TREK.

	(I have a TREK 1100, a cheaper version of the 1420; and my wife
	has a Terry Symmetry with the weird triple ratios.  The Terry
	worked for her cause she's only 5' tall and needed the 15" 
	frame.  Her build is the opposite of what's typical for women - 
	her very short legs needed this tiny frame. Smaller Terrys have 24"
	front wheels to get the frame short enough, and 165mm cranks, 
	at least on the 15" model.  Terry makes special women's seats
	too.  No, I don't get a commission on Terrys; they're just a 
	good idea.  I think Klein makes a small frame with triple
	combination too, but I don't know about the proportions.)

	Happy trails, Tom

	

	

     This statement is based partly on my experience... The stem height
    is purely a personal matter. The FIT KIT I had done did not - I repeat
    did not recommend stem height or even provide a range. That was left
    up to me. The only stem measurement was reach.
    
     Chip

Another thing to look at is the angle of your handlebars at the point where you
usually hold them.  If the handlebars are rotated too much away from the body
(at the point where you usually hold the bars), then you've effectively added
reach to your stem.  Rotating them closer to the body will remove some reach.

Rich

    

    	Chip,


    	Could you elaborate on giving you frame a bath?  This might be
    covered in another note, I have note checked. The bearings, sure I
    have bathed them, but the frame?

    	Thanks
    mike

    The first thing I do is strip everything down to the bearings and
    put the components in a (clean!) kitty litter tray.  I bring the frame
    and the kitty litter tray outside and wash off the major grease globs
    with gas and a toothbrush.  Then I wipe things off and bring them
    inside the bathtub/shower and wash things again with a 3M sponge and
    Dawn dishwashing detergent.  The detergent is needed to get rid of
    the gas residue, which attracts dirt like mad.  The gas is needed (at
    least for me) to quickly get all the grease off, although if the grease
    isn't too bad, you can probably make it a one-step process.  I used
    to worry about getting water in the frame tubes, but they drain/dry
    pretty quickly.
    
    Using gas is debateable... I like it because it makes short order of
    grease and handlebar tape goo, it's cheap, convenient, and I have a
    large open area outside to use it.  KB

     If you want to eliminate a step use thinner or lacquer thinner.
    It's actually a quicker "cutter" than gasoline and no residue.
    In fact, it's evaporated in 10 minutes - nice.
    
     Frame baths? Okay, a little epsome salts, bitters,... :-)
    
     What I meant is that they'll clean the entire frame, e.g. get all
    the grease off, Pledge it, etc... IMHO a full tune-up should leave
    your bike looking and riding showroom new (barring any negotiations
    on not replacing worn stuff) when you leave. If it's not you have two
    options, make 'em do it right or go somewhere else.
    
     The most important thing is ask what they'll do prior to handing your
    beloved steed over.
    
      Chip

    
    For what it's worth.  I wouldn't actually say that CC has "a good rep".
    I've had work done there that was questionable, and seen quite a bit 
    of work done for friends that was (more than) questionable.  Also 
    Martin doesn tend to be rude sometimes.
    
    Just having a FIT KIT does not ensure a good fit!  A competent 
    person has to take the measurements, use the table's properly,
    and then translate that into a bike for you.  Then they have to 
    look at you on the bike and decide the measurements are correct.
    
    Stew

     MO, that's all...  I never had a crummy experience. I agree with you
    on the FIT KIT. There is formal training attached to doing FIT KITS.
    
     Aside from being competent the person should be sober, of sound mind,
    etc... :-) 

	Regarding use of lacquer thinner: This stuff, and acetone and
	other strong solvents used around paint shops
	are guaranteed to dissolve paint, epoxy, skin, etc.  And it
	can make rubber seals swell to uselessness.  I assume .10 was
	saying, use this as a parts cleaner; I just didn't want the
	unwary do get this near anything that it can attack.

	Gas and paint thinner can stain some finishes too, though most
	paints these days resist this.  Gas can swell some rubber seals.

	I think it's better we get away from these hydrocarbon solvents.
	I use Simple Green.  Yes, there will be an oily residue, but
	the parts get clean and you have the added advantage of a water
	rinse to blast dirt out.  Performance bike sells an "organic"
	cleaner too, but it sure did a number on my bare hands.
	

     I agree... Those hydro... things should be ingested only!
    
         :-)
    
              Chip

I picked up my bicycle from Chelmsford Cyclery and was told that
the complete ($100) overhaul included: 

    Repacking bearings in the hub, crank and head,
    Tune up of brakes and gears
    The wheels were trued
    
The bicycle was filthy and the tires needed air.  When I got home I rode 
around quite and noticed that I need to apply quite abit more pressure
to one of the brake levers when I apply the brakes.

It looks like I will be going back to complain.  I had brought my bicycle 
there for repair because that is where I purchased the bicycle and I had
been quite satisfied at the time of purchase.

When I bring it back to get the brakes adjusted, Martin will get an earful.

nmp