Conference noted::bicycle

re: Ultegra spacing vs. Dura Ace spacing... (base note)
    
> you can use Shimano Derailler but NOT Dura-Ace.

Important note here is that the bike had Dura-Ace 7 speed setup and he had to
replace the derailler with a Ultegra 7/8 speed one to make it work.Sachs claims
that any Shimano derailler will work but that didn't turn out to be the case.

    Tom,
    
    
    How can this be?  Dura Ace is spaced the same as Ultegra and 105. 
    Maybe, as in my case, he had a six speed Dura Ace derailleur(?).
    
    Cosmetically, the six speed looks just like the seven-eight, but
    descends the cluster at a different angle (if that is the right
    terminology).
    
    r�
    
    
    
    
    

    	Incorrect sir...
    
    	Mr. Sidel can attest to the fact that Shimano has purposely toyed
    	with it's customers.
    
    	He has a Merlin Outfitted with Ultegra 600, and proceeded to trash
    	the rear derailleur. He then procured a Dura-Ace rear changer for
    	replacement. He was then forced to purchase Dura-Ace downtube
    	shifters, because the Ultegra shifters would not function properly
    	with the new DA derailleur.
    
    	Aren't the Japanese just the SHREWDEST businessmen around?
    
    	Did you know that the Japanese word for businessman means -
    
    				  WARRIOR !!!
    
    	These guys don't play around, but that's another topic in here
    	somewhere...

    I seem to recall that the cable travel needed to move a D-A derailleur
    one cog is less than for Ultegra, 105 etc.  Presumably racers have more
    sensitive fingers and appreciate the reduced lever travel.  Cog spacing
    should be the same.
    
    Andy

    To .2
    
         Only bicycle racing "Warriors" buy Shimano, others buy Campy.
    Warriors don't want to get caught short in the heat of battle.
     

    So, when I was shopping around for STI levers for my Dura-Ace
    equipped bike, and everybody was saying, "trust me, you'll be
    okay with Ultegra or 105...", it wasn't so?
    
    I ended up getting the Dura Ace levers, but didn't realize that
    it was my _only_ choice!  Those guys (Shimano) have pushed their
    luck with me.
    
    r�

>         Only bicycle racing "Warriors" buy Shimano, others buy Campy.
>    Warriors don't want to get caught short in the heat of battle.

yeah, riiiight.

>        Aren't the Japanese just the SHREWDEST businessmen around?

let's rathole!

i would assert that they (shimano not "the japanese") succeed in spite of such
tactics, not because of them. if all their parts *did* work with one-another
they'd sell more stuff, not less and their customers would be happier.

they succeed because they make equipment that's good enough at a price that
beats everybody else by a longshot. if you want the best you don't by shimano.

     Please Abe??? Mail me some of the drugs you're on!!!
    
        Chip

    Chip,
    
         They are called Shimano.  You are welcome to some, you will 
    definitely save money!!!
    

     I'd love to... Please supply me a listing of Shimano compatible
    with my vintage '52 nasal equipment..........
    
    
     Chip

    	Re .6
    
    	It is the Japanese, and not just Shimano, period.
    
    	The Japanese have been at war with the United States ever since
    	WWII, waging an economic war that is slowly but surely stripping
    	this country bare. Remember that the Japanese word for businessman
    	means warrior? That was not a joke, and the Japanese are by no means
    	joking. When they target a specific market, it is targeted as a battle
    	field, and plan for nothing less than total domination.
    
    	Rathole: 20 years ago...
    
    	The largest banks in the world were U.S. owned, now the largest
    	banks are Japanese owned.
    
    	The automobile capital of the world was Detroit Michigan, now it
    	is Toyota City, Japan.
    
    	Foreign expansion:
    	Japan does not allow foreign owned corporations inside it's borders.
    	The U.S. gives real estate & tax incentives to Japanese corporations
    	for building Japanese owned factories in the U.S., why?  Yes, there
    	are new jobs being created, but for the profit of the Japanese.
    
    	I'm a little biased, yes. A friend mentioned a book I need to read,
    	it's called, "The coming war with Japan". There is a MASSIVE trade
    	imbalance between the U.S. & Japan, and our national deficit reflects
    	it.
    
    	Enough garbage, I apologize for wasting time in this file, this is
    	a topic for another conference altogether.

    I'm just happy to announce that I am on the band wagon of supporting
    the American businesses like FAT CITY!! I just ordered my new MTB 
    frame today and am getting rid of my Bridgestone MB-1, now if 
    campy made good MTB Gruppos I'd by one of them also!!! Oh, well
    maybe in a few more years!?!? 

I hate to admit it, but while I was resetting the Vitus to Campag rear mech I 
left the Shimano 600 levers on and they worked, indexed I mean.  The old 
Chorus levers are pretty naff anyway and I thought of staying that way but I 
didn't like the way the front lever started well away from the stop.  When 
using the outside of a triple the lever ends up lying along the downtube!

The problem was solved by using the original Campag Gran Sport levers I had 
in the shed.  No index, but do I care?

BTW I thought _I_ was anti-Japanese......

    RE-base note, thanks that was all I needed to know!!