Conference noted::bicycle

This winter I had the usual desire for new gear, I'm sure you know the 
feeling, except this time the existing components were three years old and
the  wheels had picked up one or two dents, so I went for it. I've had a
hankering for  handlebar shifting on my road bike ever since taking a nasty
spill in Reading in  1989 when I hit a pothole at speed while changing
gear. Had I had two hands  on the bars instead of one I'm sure I wouldn't
have come off, but as it was I had  the sorry experience of sliding along
the road and collecting a roadrash.

For the amount of money I was prepared to spend (a staggering amount by 
non-bikie standards but a sensible, moderate sum to the initiated) it was
either  Shimano 105 STI or Campagnolo Veloce Ergo, direct competitors and
both new  on the market this year. Now, I've had nothing but good
experience with  Shimano, introduced to the delights of indexed shifting
and HyperGlide by it,  but Campagnolo had two key advantages over Shimano
this time: one, the  routing of both brake and gear cables under the
handlebar tape allows the use  of a barbag, and two, I knew that a triple
chainset could be used with Campag  Ergo whereas I've never heard that for
Shimano STI. Besides, I felt guilty about  never spending my money on
European products. So I took a risk and went for  Campag, totally untried
by me and not even a review read (kids, don't try this at  home). I did
worry that I might be buying a product that didn't *quite* work  correctly.
I've heard bad things about Campag shifting in the past.

Disclaimer
----------
This is a review of only a partial Veloce groupset, mixed with non-Campag 
components. I have no axes to grind other than to convince you that I've
spent  my money wisely.

What I bought:
--------------
This is what �240 inc. p+p spent with Parker Mail Order in Sheffield bought 
me:
- Veloce Ergo shifters
- all cables
- front and rear derailleur (Veloce front not used)
- brakes
- hubs
- 13-26 (it's hilly here!)  8-speed cassette 
- headset

This matches up with the following components:
- Stronglight 300lx triple chainset, 52-42-32
- Suntour 9000 front derailleur
- Sedis 8-speed chain

First impressions
-----------------
This is so much a rival to Shimano 105 that it even looks similar. Most 
components are painted in the same pale grey-green way as 105, save, 
thankfully, the hubs, which retain that familiar Campag glossy aluminium
finish.  The hubs are the standard 8-speed 130mm width.

The cassette sprockets are a nice golden colour before they get covered in 
oily black gunge and come separately rather than HyperGlide's pre-assembled 
unit. If you look closely, you can see different shapes cut into the top of
the  sprocket teeth, so it's obvious that Campag have been thinking of ways
to ease  the path of the chain from one sprocket to another.

Campag only make two types of Ergo shifter, Veloce, and a more expensive 
one for all the other groups. The Veloce shifter is easily identifiable by
looking  at the secondary lever (the one hiding behind the brake lever)
which is black  rather than polished alloy. Money has been saved by making
the lever body out  of plastic rather than metal. Nevertheless, each lever
unit is a substantial and  impressive piece of machinery. Campag have I
think stolen a technical march  on Shimano by managing to separate the
gear-changing mechanism entirely  from the braking mechanism. With Shimano,
the gear mechanism swivels with  the braking mechanism, giving the unit a
bulbous look and the exposed gear  cables that remind me of a cockroach's
antennae. In the Campag unit, the  brake lever only brakes. The secondary
lever behind the brake lever is used to  shift to a lower gear (larger
sprocket). An extra little thumb-tab on the inside of  the unit is used to
switch to a higher gear (smaller sprocket). In my opinion, the  unit is
more elegant-looking than Shimano STI. When you play with the unit  before
it is installed, you can swing in the downchange lever and feel how far 
you have to swing it before feeling the index click, and you can press the 
upchange tab and feel how hard you have to press it to get the index click.
This  pre-installation fun is all expressly forbidden by the instructions,
of course.

The brakes are single-pivot rather than Shimano's excellent dual pivot and 
the quick-release is controlled from the brake lever (I see that Campagnolo 
have brought out dual-pivot brakes but I dread to think what they cost).

The Cassette
------------
Shimano upped the quality of gear-changing in two major steps. First by 
indexed shifting, which removed the need to feel for gears, then with 
HyperGlide, which applied serious engineering to the process of throwing a 
chain from one sprocket to another. Both developments are vital to shifting 
controlled from the handlebars. With HyperGlide, the relation of one
sprocket to  another is important. All the sprockets have to be set at the
correct angle  relative to each other. Shimano doesn't trust us cyclists to
be able to do this on  our own, so HyperGlide cassettes come pre-assembled
and screwed together.

Campagnolo, to their credit, have bitten the bullet on this issue and
supply  their cassette in loose sprockets along with a beautiful piece of
technical writing  that describes, in several languages, how the hub is put
together, the different  types of cassette sprocket, and the rules for
aligning each cassette sprocket  with the ones above and below it. This
rule isn't difficult but does require a  small amount of concentration to
apply. If you don't have this much  concentration, you'll be relieved to
learn that the sprockets are supplied on a  resin mount which is
constructed so that you can slide the sprockets straight  onto the hub.
What you should NOT do is merrily slide all the sprockets straight into a
jumbled mess on the tabletop, like I did.

The available gear combinations are large: everything from 11 to 16 on the 
top sprocket and 18 to 32 on the bottom. Four different types of sprocket
cover  all these combinations. The top sprocket is retained by a lockring
in exactly the  same way as HyperGlide; and the same tool fits. If you are
independently  wealthy, or Chip Girouard, you can buy alloy sprockets
instead of steel.

Never mind all that, Rod, does this stuff work or what?
-------------------------------------------------------
It certainly does. Please read on.

Installation
------------
Building the wheels with 8-speed hubs posed no special problems, and 
neither did the brakes. All the installation interest revolves around the 
brake/shifter unit.

This slides onto the handlebars in the way that brakes always do. And to 
tighten the unit you pull the brakes a bit and stick a 5mm allen key into
the nut  you see revealed when you do this. WRONG! There is indeed a 5mm
allen nut  in there but I suspect the brake/shifter unit will explode if
you manage to undo  it, and it is not user-serviceable. In fact the nut to
tighten the unit onto the bars  is revealed by pulling the rubber brakehood
up and backwards. 

With the brake/shifter unit tight on the bars, the next task is to deal
with the  cable runs. The brake cables run entirely aero-conventionally, so
no difficulty  there. The gear cable run turns out to be surprisingly
straight; I had envisaged  something more convoluted. The gear cable outer
terminates on the frame in  the place where the old shifters used to be
mounted. Whereas the brake cable  outer is conventional spiral wound stuff,
the gear cable outer is that new multi- strand stuff which is more or less
impossible to cut, so don't even think of  trying, just accept the length
you're given.

Setting up the rear shift
-------------------------
To set up the rear shift, my advice is to concentrate initially on getting
the  change from highest to second-highest gear correct, by adjusting the
barrel- adjuster on the derailleur (as is pretty much the standard practice
for setting up  an index system). If you set this change correctly, the
whole block should be  set correctly. The quality of the shifting is quite
sensitive to the position of the  barrel-adjuster but there definitely is a
sweet spot where it works nicely.

Setting up the front shift
--------------------------
Somewhat to my surprise, the left-hand unit is an exact mirror image of the 
right-hand unit. It's not difficult at all to use it to move the front
changer,  although it takes several clicks rather than one to change gear.
It copes with a  triple chainset with no difficulty.

Since the left-hand unit has the the same number of clicks as the
right-hand  unit, it strikes me that you have complete freedom to wire
front and back  changing and front and back braking to any lever you
desire.


Using Ergo
----------
Since I built the stuff up myself and wasn't at all familiar with it, I had
a few  teething troubles with setting up the shift, mainly down to not
setting the barrel  adjuster correctly. But I got it set nicely eventually,
so I review it on that basis.  I've accumulated about 400km with these
components at the time of writing.

My first impression of Ergo was... Wow! It works! I was relieved. After the 
unfussed precision of HyperGlide shifting, the shifting on Veloce sounded a 
little clunky, the chain certainly announcing its arrival at a new gear
quite  audibly. On the other hand it's quick to get there. The brake-hoods,
since  they're hiding more machinery than usual, are a bigger handful than 
conventional brakes but very comfortable. Up- and down-shifts are reachable 
both with your hands above the brake-hoods and with your hands below the 
brake-hoods, on the drops. Ergo *is* ergonomic.

For a rear change to a bigger sprocket, you sweep the secondary lever 
inwards with your fingers. There's an index click after about 40 degrees.
The  chain has usually jumped by then, but if it hasn't, you can swing the
lever  further to persuade it to go. In fact you can swing the lever far
enough for two  or even three gears at a time. There turns out to be a
considerable degree of  'feel' of the derailleur position with this lever.
My only complaint is that the first  20 degrees of swing don't seem to
affect the derailleur position and as such are  wasted. The unit could be
tighter in this respect. It's also possible to temporarily  lock the unit
by pressing up and downshift simultaneously: pressing the upshift  lever
clears this. 

For a rear change to a smaller sprocket, press the thumb tab with, well,
your  thumb. This change is really excellent. It's ultra-fast and
convenient. You can  press the tab further to change two or three gears at
once. 

The front change is similar except that, as I mention above, changes 
between rings require several clicks. Changes to a bigger ring require a
couple  of sweeps of the hand and I would have to say this is slower than
using a  conventional lever. But changes to a smaller ring are once again
excellent, just  a couple of thumb-presses on the tab to drop the chain
down. 

So the stuff does change gear effectively. But what's it like controlling
the  changing from the bars? At first it's a little weird having your hands
on the bars  the whole time, no more reaching for a gear-lever. Then the
advantages sink in.  I think I am changing gear more frequently, and so
should be more finely tuned  to the road. I feel safer always having two
hands on the bars. Simultaneous  braking and changing, for example while
slowing down for a traffic light,  becomes a much easier proposition. And
one new trick: gear-changing while  out of the saddle really works! You can
up- or down- rear-shift with your bum off  the saddle, if you have the
nerve to subject the mechanisms to this abuse. 

Other comments. Using eight speeds doesn't feel much different to using 
seven, whereas seven definitely felt different to six. The brakes are
pretty good,  maybe not quite the immediate bite of Shimano dual-pivot, but
that might be  down to the brake shoes which have a softer feel. At first I
was a little unhappy  about the brake quick-release being controlled from
the brake lever but I've  realised the sense in this: the brakes aren't
disabled if you set the quick- release, so if you forget to reset it you
won't kill yourself on the next descent.

Pros                                        Cons
----                                        ----
o  Safer with both hands on the bars        o  Expense
o  Simultaneous brake/shift easier          o  Slight weight penalty
o  Out-of-saddle shifting possible          o  Front shift could be better
o  More efficiency through more frequent    o  Rubber brakehoods leave 
   shifting                                    black marks on my hands
o  Tidy cable routing
o  Great fun to use

So is it worth it?
------------------
I don't think that Ergo or STI is essential equipment in the way that, for 
example, clipless pedals and indexed shifting are. For me, the decision to 
purchase centred on a perceived safety advantage and the simple fun of
using  the latest equipment.

As far as I'm concerned Ergo has delivered everything I hoped it would,
with  one or two niggles. I love it! Then again the mountainous geography
round  here places a great emphasis on frequent gear-changing, and I admit
to being  a bit of a technology freak. If neither of these conditions
apply to you, you  won't care too much about Ergo or STI.

I calculated that the extra cost of Ergo Veloce above straight Veloce
(which I  did consider) was about �80. For me, it was money well spent.


Rod
    

No comments from anyone? I'd hate to think that you thought this was the
last word on Ergo or STI...


Rod

     I would agree with your assessment. I have the Campy Record stuff.
    
     One point, the stuff is not must equipment unless you're in a sprint
    finish and need to get into a higher gear. That piece of technology
    can actually win or lose a race.
    
     Chip 

Indexed shifting IS NOT an essential, whereas a Brookes saddle most 
definitely is......

I cannot let the most excellent and comprehensive report pass without 
querying the front changer comments - do you mean it takes 2 or 3 bites to 
change rings rather than 1 smooth movement?  I can't imagine this.  I'm also 
interested to see you also have consigned the Campag front to the spares box 
in favour of a SunTour, my feelings exactly despite the anti-Japanese in me. 
The only one I have found to be as good is the Sachs.  When you need to 
bridge 32/40/50, the Campag always is a bit imprecise on the change-down to 
the innermost ring - I think they just need a longer cage to work 
effectively.

Yes, it takes me two swipes for a front change to a higher gear. Not ideal,
and quite probably unnecessary with the right equipment. 

The reason I left the Campag front change in the spares box is that I
assumed, possibly wrongly, that it can't handle a triple. Perhaps I need
to experiment with that. And perhaps if I bought a Campag front changer
that can handle a triple it would match better with the Ergo shifter and
a single stroke would suffice to make a front change. I'd welcome any
comments on this.


Rod

    I had been thinking of a 1+1 setup using the Ergo for the rear changer 
    and a trad changer for the front.  It would look ugly but it might be
    an interesting compromise...
    
    Comments ?

    > Comments ?
    
    If the levers are indeed symmetrical, and you knew anyone left-handed,
    you could sell them the left-lever cheap so they too could go Ergo.

     I thought I read somewhere that one of the plus' for the Campy stuff
    was that it would handle triples and Shimano would not...
    
     Anyway, front changers are set up that way (index - graduations) so
    that you can adjust for chain rub. If it were one clean sweep, you'd
    have to live with rub in the extreme gears or (for the more torqued
    personalities) while you're hammering and experiencing that incredible
    frame flex :-) !!!!!
    
      Chip

    
>     I had been thinking of a 1+1 setup using the Ergo for the rear changer 
>     and a trad changer for the front.  It would look ugly but it might be
>     an interesting compromise...
    
    You mean only use one Ergo lever ? If so, it might feel a bit strange,
    depending on how the shape of the hood compares to the standard brake
    levers. Perhaps you mean to use both Ergo levers, but just not connect
    up gear bit of the left hand one ?
    

    
>     I had been thinking of a 1+1 setup using the Ergo for the rear changer 
>     and a trad changer for the front.  It would look ugly but it might be
>     an interesting compromise...
    
      For me, one very important aspect of down-tube shifting is the 
      one-handed double-shift, in particular the changes between the 42-15
      to the 53-17.   (Straight block users, or those not concerned with
      chain deflection, need read no farther).  It seems that Ergo and its
      ilk offer an evolutionary improvement (hands stay on the bars) but
      using the 1+1 setup, this shift could only be accomplished with
      the left hand on the downtube shifter, while
      simultaneously using the right hand thumb on the Ergothumb-gizmo.  
      This seems de-evolutionary and perhaps de-angerous.

re the one-handed change....

Quite so, I have always changed "through the frame", even when not needing a 
"double change ie: front and rear almost simultaneously".  I rarely use the 
left hand to operate the DT front changer lever, it's normally the right hand 
thumb that does the work.  The only time this gives me problems is when the 
frame number gets in the way - the French sportif ones normally can be fixed 
a little way back thanks to the fiendish plastic clips they use.

Rod_W's solution is back to the original Campag bar-end days, when most 
people used the bar-end for the back and a conventional lever for the front, 
apart from notable Continentals like Miguel Poblet and Rik van Looy, but 
that's another story......

As for the Campag front and triples - I still say the normal Chorus/Veloce 
whatever will not handle the small innermost rings, the cage is just not 
designed that way.  Going to a (perish the thought) VTT version may be the 
answer, but they also seem to require more clearance between the crank and 
the outside ring (see earlier note on triples).

Oh dear, has Technology passed me by yet again????

>    I had been thinking of a 1+1 setup using the Ergo for the rear changer 
>    and a trad changer for the front. 

I don't think I could live with this personally, too inelegant. We love our
bikes after all, they've got to look good as well as feel good.

The front change isn't *that* bad, and anyway it's only a pain changing to a 
larger ring, changing to a smaller ring is fine. And as Chip says, you can
adjust for chain rub on the fly very easily.


Rod

    I don't like the multi click aspect of the Ergos and am very
    happy with my STI's.  Yes they don't shift and triple, but how
    often do I use a triple?  I'm trying command controls on my touring
    bike.
    
    ed

>    I had been thinking of a 1+1 setup using the Ergo for the rear changer 
>    and a trad changer for the front.

well, it worked for andy hamptsen with his rear only STI at l'alp d'huez.

As a long time read only member of this conference I'd like to express my
thanks to Rod.  It was on the basis of the review penned in .1 that I
decided to purchase the Veloce Groupset.  I was initially very disappointed
having been used to Shimano's great indexing system.

After twiddling the barrel adjuster, on many occasions, (as some of my
training partners will testify :-( ) and eventually getting the chain
length correct I ended up with a groupset that is nothing short of brilliant.

To be able to change gears when out of the saddle or without having to reach 
for the down tube is fantastic.  It has had an unfortunate side effect in so
far as I am unable to go out on my winter bike which has conventional shifters,
:-( I think that I'll just have to put up with that.

Once again Rod many thanks for a great review and some excellent
recommendations.


Regards,
Andy.

    
    A comment from Allan Peiper in his roadtest of a GB-MG team bike with
    Campy Ergo said that he preferred the Shimano version. He believes that
    the benefit to jump straight from a 21 to a 12 is of no use because you
    legs can't change speed that fast and that he found the cabling route
    of the Campy system uncomfortable when riding on the brake hoods. Any
    comments?
    
    Graham.

     I fear we're treading into the "debate zone"... I like my CAMPY
     stuff (I did have personal experience with Dura Ace too).
    
     I agree with Graham's point. If you need this option, you're
     not riding correctly. BTW, the cable system doesn't bother me
     at all... I'm not sure where the "hoods" thing comes from, but
     the bar tops have the bulge from the cable. I actually like it
     because it improves my grip on the bar.
    
     One thing I don't like about Shimano is the tentacle appearance
     of multiple cables spinging out. The, of course, there's the
     finish work... IMHO -- No contest!

>     I fear we're treading into the "debate zone"... I like my CAMPY
>     stuff (I did have personal experience with Dura Ace too).
 
    Why fear? Debatings what we do best in here...  :*)  I'm not looking for
    a debate, it's just that Peiper is the first person that I've heard
    state a preference for STI over Ergo. Once this leg injury clears up, I
    was going to evaluate what my objectives would be for next year. If
    RRing figures at all, then I'd consider moving to STI/Ergo. Using
    Shimano just now, STI may mean less money...
       
>     I'm not sure where the "hoods" thing comes from, but the bar tops have
>     the bulge from the cable. I actually like it because it improves my grip
>     on the bar.
  
    I think that it must be the point where the cable comes out of the
    hood. I would imagine that the soft flesh at the palm of the hand would
    have it digging in, which could be tiring after some time. I ride on
    the hoods a lot, and this would be a consideration for me. 
      
>     One thing I don't like about Shimano is the tentacle appearance
>     of multiple cables spinging out. The, of course, there's the
>     finish work... IMHO -- No contest!
    
    I agree about looks. We spent decades getting aero levers, and 5 years
    later Shimano have got cables all over the shop again...
    
    Graham.

Veloce seemed to offer a better proposition for me as I have quite small hands 
(unlike the rest of my over-weight self :-)) and it seemed to me that it was much
easier to change gears with the Ergolever system as STI.

I don't like the STI tentacles either.

Regards,
Andy.

     I ride the hoods a lot myself (in fact, enough to wear a set out a
    year)... Of course, I have manly hands :-)
    

    hey whats all this about not needing 23-12 jumps.
    
    There is a certain noise, well known and dearly beloved of all alpine
    cyclo-tourists which is the rattle-rattle-clunk-thump as you change
    from 32x23 to 48x13 as you breast the top of a 10% col.
    
    Mind you in this sort of case you don't need the speed of change....

>    hey whats all this about not needing 23-12 jumps.
    
>    There is a certain noise, well known and dearly beloved of all alpine
>    cyclo-tourists which is the rattle-rattle-clunk-thump as you change
>    from 32x23 to 48x13 as you breast the top of a 10% col.
    
    To me, if you are disciplined with your gearing (and I know Rod's not,
    I've seen the gears he crunches... :*), you don't need to throw the
    lever straight from 23 to 12 in .5 of a second. You need to do it
    quickly, but at a reasonably well controlled pace.
    
    Actually, (rathole alert! paragraphs starting with actually always have
    a rathole attached...) I think disciplined gearing is something that
    regular racing forces on riders. A very large generalisation, I know,
    but most "lesiure" cyclists, from the guy that rides around the block
    once a week to the dedicated tourist always tend to crunch larger gears
    and be lazier about moving that funny metally pointy thing on the down
    tube...
    
    Graham.

I have non-Ergo on the Vitus, but it's indexed, and compared with the indexed 
Shimano 600 on the training bike, it's better.  However, the Campag has not 
done 2 years hard work yet, so I'll wait judgement.

As for Rod's comment - it should be -
Crunch over the top in 30 x 24, park the bike against the bar wall, fill up 
the inner man with coffee and pain au chocolat, put the levers in the top 
gear positions, lift back wheel and turn pedals.  Freewheel for as far as 
possible.

    re .22 
    > ... regular racing forces good changing
    
    I could not agree more.  I know from my experience that I am a bad,
    indisciplined gear changer.  I just don't care about getting the
    maximum out myself and my bike.  If during a logn climb the road
    flattens for a few hundred yards, I'll just ease off rather than change
    up.  This is something I'd never have done while I was still racing..
    
    Lets face it I'd be better of with a 4 speed Sturmy Archer....
    
    /r

    
    or fixed wheel...  :*)
    
    Graham.

    My original STI's were "sprinter's specials."  You could downshift
    by onesies but all upshifts went straight to the 12!
    
    ed

    	Oh my aching knees!

Re .15:  Thanks for the kind words. Rather alarming though to find that my
ramblings get taken seriously.

I haven't been using Ergo since September after trashing the bike in a
crash, but I'll be putting it back together again soon. One of the components
I've had to replace has been the rubber brake hoods - �18 for a new pair, ouch!


Rod

     Rod, I had to replace mine this year. Even the mechanic at my
     local shop went ouch!