Conference noted::bicycle

    
    Lift ticket prices:
    
    	1 ride and trail fee:$10
        unlimited use of chair and trail fee: $15 
    	Trail fee :$ 5

    Hello,
    
     This may sound like a real dumb question...but...
    
    Are you saying thay I can purchase a lift ticket that will carry me and
    my bike up Killington so I can ride down the same trails I skied on
    last season? If yes, what do you do with the bike and is all, most, or
    some of the mountain open for riding?
     What other ski areas in the region offer this?
    
    Un-Elightened but hopefully yours
    PM

    
    They started this last year.  There are hooks on the chairs and 
    your bike rides up behind you.  There are 'set' trails and maps
    are available.  They don't 'like' you to ride everywhere, but
    there are no bike patrols :)
    
    /Melanie

Hello,

I just went up to Killington last friday to mountain bike.  I had a blast.
Excellent downhills without the uphills.  (Can you say lazy?  YUP!) If you 
have a season pass it will only cost you the $5 trail fee.

One suggestion.  Stay-off the trails marked "wrok road".  UGH!!!!!

Shannon

    Sunday River also has a Mt. Bike park. I think the lift they use 
    is North Peak. They have 16 trails available.
    I think Mt. Snow also welcomes Mt. bikes.
    Reid

    To all,
    
     Thanks for the input on MTBing at ski areas. I will try to get my Gang
    of Thieves up to Mt. Snow soon. I really think that Riding the bike
    down and the chair up has some merit!
    
    PM

Re -.1

Ditto!  I would like to thank everyone for the input, and if anyone
is going up to Killington this weekend maybe I'll see you up there.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know what it's like up there without
snow??  Is it real rocky or are the trails mostly dirt and grass??

                             Thanks Again - Ed

    
    	You get a little bit of everything, but the designated trails 
    	are in very good shape.  Mainly grass, some gravel roads, and
    	dirt_road_type trails.  I do remember a single track last year,
    	but they were in the process of cutting it so it may be wider.
    
    	/melanie

   I just wrote this trip report for anyone that's interested.  It was
kind of long and I cut it down, so please forgive the choppiness.
Hope You enjoy...




    Killington, a place world renowned for it's skiing has now added
mountain biking to it's list of activities.  Naturally my friends
and I wanted to get in on this new kind of excitement.  

    Now I'm not that great of a skier, but I have been around the
track a few times on a BMX bike when I was a kid...So I figured
how much different could going down a hill on a MTB be.  I mean
you shouldn't have to pedal that much, so what's to worry about
being in shape. Right???



                              WRONG!!!!!  
    It started at 10 am on the dot.  My friends and I were in line
waiting to get on the lift, still wondering how they hook up the bikes to the
chair.  The attendant comes over and asks us to leave our bikes behind and
explains that the bikes are hung up one per chair on a little hook.  So we
leave our bikes there and hop on the lift.  Not being used to getting on a lift
without skis, I sit down in the chair and keep my feet on the ground.. Mistake
number one.  Your feet don't slide without skis or snow and I have a couple of
bruises from my calves getting caught under the chair to prove it.  Ok I brush
that one off, I turn around to see that they hang the bikes up by the front
tire.  My first thought was of course did I tighten my front tire when I put
on.  Fortunately it was tight and all was well when we got off the lift. 

    Assembled at the top of the mountain we decided to take trail #7 which
according to the map should bring us right back to the lift. So away we go,
down and away from the peak.  Around the first turn the grade gets steeper and
we get our first taste of speed.  This is great, the wind starts rushing
through my hair and my eyes start watering, faster and faster, adrenalin,
faster...Second turn, brake real hard, lock up the back wheel try not to do the
same with the front.  WOW these bikes can stop pretty good I'm thinking, so
with a little more confidence I release the brake and head for the next turn
still a little faster.  We repeat this several times until suddenly we come
around a turn and there's pipeline construction. I slam on the brakes and my
bike stops but I almost don't.  I turn around and see my friends do the same,
Mike, Mark, Eric, Jeremy..."hey where's Curt???"  At that moment we all stood
there watching Curt come full speed around the corner with a look of sheer
terror on his face as he sees what we almost hit.  I don't know quite how he
did this but he managed to put his whole body over the handle bars without
taking his feet out of the pedals. Still going at a fairly high speed the
backend of the bike follows his face face into the ground and back up onto the
wheels again and to a complete stop before he hit the construction.  It is a
sad thing to say but we were to busy laughing to ask him if he was all right. 
It's ok though that's what friends are for. 

    This happened several times throughout the day, but no one was seriously
hurt.  The next trail we took was trail #6, this was a very fast run
with water ruts across it, I have this fetish with jumps, so every time
there was a rut I tried to make it into a jump.  This worked several
times until I got a little over-confident, I looked down at my computer,
the speedo said 31mph, WOW imagine doing jumps at 31mph I said.  Here
comes the next one, I pulled up with everything I had arms + legs, well
I pulled up so hard my feet came out of the straps.  Before I even landed
I heard one my friends say, "Watch out Ed's going down..."  BOOM!! I landed
right on top of the seat with my legs spread eagle.  The back tire started
fishtailing on me as I was frantically trying to keep the bike upright,
going in a straight line, and stop ASAP without my feet on the pedals.
Somehow I managed to do all this to the amazement of my friends as they were
all stopped above me, again laughing to hard to ask if I was all right, but
like I said that's what friends are for.

    Ok we've been through it all, mud, jumps, hairpin turns, it was time for
the long trail, #1 or as us skiers know it - Juggernaut.  This was the trail to
end all trails.  We started this run at almost exactly 1pm and didn't get back
to the lift until 2:30.  The first mishap was like watching a five car pile up.
 The trail starts off muddy and gets worse.  Curt was leading the pack down the
trail left, right, left, slow down for huge mud puddles, speed up...ect all
except for the time Curts' front tire sank...again he did his face over the
handle bars with your feet still in the pedals trick. But this time he didn't
come out so gracefully because Mike was right behind him, them right on top of
him, then right past him, then right in the mud also. Next came Eric, he missed
both Curt and Mike, but still laid it down in the mud,  Mark was fortunate
enough not to go over the handle bars in the mud, but did it right before he
reached it.  Jeremy and I stopped in time and were nice enough to take pictures
because I'm sure those guys will want to remember this, after all that's what
friends do.  

    We recollected and continued down to the bottom of Bear Mountain. It's funny
but to me it seemed Outer Limits is much steeper without snow on it. I kept
repeating to myself "I skied down that???".  The rest of this trail was mostly
a steep incline and none of us could ride it.  So we walked and walked and
climbed and climbed, until the better part of an hour went by. Finally the
grade lessened and I gained enough strength to ride my bike, to the end of the
trail. 

    We had time for one more run and we ended up on trail #2, none of us know
how we got there, but it was the fastest run of the day.  This trail was mostly
a work road going straight down.  We hit our maximum speed of the day which
was 35mph.  I am awed at how hard it is to hold on to the handlebars going that
fast. The only incident that happened here was when Eric pulled the front end
off the ground to go over a rut and the backend hit the rut so hard that he
popped his tube. 

    We were supposed to go Saturday + Sunday, but after Saturday everybody
was too tired and sore to go the next day.  I don't know, but it seems to
me that BMXin' was never this harsh on the body...whatever the case I have
never had this much fun on a bicycle.

    I'm sure downhill MTB will be a huge success in the future, in fact I'm
surprised that it isn't already...all in all this was a great trip.  So
good in fact we're probably going to try MT Snow next weekend!!!

                              See you next time - Ed

    
    	RE: .9
    	Flame on:	
    
    	Is this how this sport is going to get dangerous?  Biking out
    	of control?  That's what happened to skiing.  I was at Killington
    	this weekend also and did the same trails.  Had a whole lot of
    	fun, and didn't seem to encounter the 'thrills' that you did.
    	Is going over the handlebars more exciting than staying on the
    	bike?  I'm glad I wasn't there to see them either.  Gee, were 
    	you the ones we pedaled past up trail #1 between Bear and the 
    	base lodge?
    
    	Flame off:
    
    	Killington was a whole lot of fun this weekend.  Sunday we ventured
    	over to Round Top, the abandoned ski area, for some off-road...
    	I wouldn't recommend this place.  It was one h*ll of a ride/push
    	up, equal to Wachusett if not worse.  And there were no real 
    	trails down.  The ski trails have growth about chest high now.
    	I was there a few years ago and they were at least walking trails.
    	Lots of pricker bushes as well.  It was certainly an adventure!
    	You couldn't even call it single track...   
    	

    ED,
    
     Your report sounds...shall we say interesting!!   I'm sure you used a
    little writer's liberty to color your story more exciting, but you sure
    have gone a long way in making me want to give this a try. I really
    hope that if you go to Mt. Snow you put in another full trip report.
    I'm in the process of making plans to go there the weekend of 8/2-3 or
    8/9-10 and could use your input to motivate some of my bik'ng buddie's.
     How did your equipment hold up and have you healed up yet???
    
    Bottom line: do you feel it was worth the $$$????
    
    Mel,
      I don't think that Ed was saying they were riding totally out of
    control but that they were pushing it to the edge a bit to find out
    what they were capable of. Like skiing, MTBing for me is, if I don't
    fall at least once during the day, I'm not trying hard enough. If Ed's
    group was endangering anyone else on the mountain, then I'm with you
    100%, but I didn't read that in his story. I visualized a group of
    hard-core mud-o-holics laughing and ribbing each other the whole day
    and haveing on heck of a good time doing it.
    
 PM

RE .10 

<NO FLAME INTENDED>

  Please don't flame me and blame me for making this sport more dangerous.
This was our first time doing this ever...so of course we made mistakes
and fell down and went boom, that's part of the fun of learning.  It's not 
like we went all out recklessly with a "get out of my way" attitude.  We were
careful, just inexperienced that's all.  I mean nobody was hurt except for 
some scratches, and some seriously sore muscles (especially the forearms).

BTW  - you can reach the Base lodge all the way from Bear Mountain without
       getting off the bike???  If so, that's very impressive!


RE .11

    Thanks for coming to my defense, you hit the nail right on the head.
The trip was well worth the money.  I'd probably pay double the $15 lift
ticket, especially if you get your friends to go with you.  As far as the
equipment, the rides do beat on the bikes but, I guess they were really
made for this kind of abuse because the only thing wrong with my bike
at the end of the trip was that the brake cables needed adjusting. If
we go this weekend I'll be sure to give a report.  I'd really like to
compare MT Snow to Killington.  Somebody told me their MTB program is 
better than Killington's.

                                  Cheers - Ed

    
    	Ed,
    
    	I'm glad you had fun and I hope the fun continues without injury.
    	With some practice, you'll be able to ride back to the base lodge
    	from bear also.  
    
    	BTW, I stretched some brake cables myself.
    
    	Good luck at Snow.
    
    	/mjf

    
       It was suggested a few back that these guys are contributing to 
       making MTB'ng into an out of control sport like skiing. NOT!
    
       I do not think by any means that skiing has turned into an out of
       control sport. There are however in both sports, out of control
       poeple. Those who do not want to pay the price of experience and
       want to get up there right away. (like the figure 11 skiers at 
       Killington.) But with MTB'ng and even a lot more so with skiing
       I have travelled at speeds beyond comprehension of the avarage 
       weekend skier. Just because some might not be able to control 
       themselves at those speeds those not mean that everybody else can't
       either. 
       I guess the rule of thumb is to make sure what you do and where you
       do it, is not endangering others. I love the thrills of speed and
       will not give it up even when I'd be a senior citizen. 
       I realy enjoyed Ed's report, I just wish I knew these guys so that
       I could tag along. 
    
    
       Shaw :-)

    Hey Everybody,
    Ed I wish I could try Killington, but I live in Colorado.  I am anxious
    to get to some of are resorts around here.  
    RE .10:  MTB's were made for speed and thrashing.  As long as Ed and
    his friends were not endangering any other people or riders, GO LIKE
    H$LL ED.  I am a speed freak, and as long as it is safe (ie. no one
    around) I try for as much speed as I can get (I have a 41 mph mark on
    my speedo).  If I fall down I say ouch, I get up and make sure the bike
    is o.k. and it is back to flying.  I do not feel that my addiction as
    any affect on making MTBing a careless or wreckless sport.  Running
    down the hill out of control (esp. a big, wide ski path) is part of the
    game.  
    This is my opinion.  I have been racing for two years and I guess
    riding like a madman is a progressive addiction that gets worse after
    every ride. Again if there is a chance of running into hikers or
    horses, I ride under control (BORING). 
                                          Keep Pedallin'
                                               Bob

    
    
    	Uh, I don't want to pee on you guys's parade here, but I gotta say
    something. There is NOTHING wrong with someone blasting down a hill as
    fast as they can (or can't). But the ONLY time you're not endangering
    other people at 30-40 MPH is when you're on an open trail where you can see 
    clearly at least 50-75 feet or so.
    	I've seen too many people wiped out and seriously hurt by riders
    and skiers who were "just goin' for a rush." So go ahead and fly. As
    long as you take responsibility for any damage to your bod or your
    bike, have a blast. Just be SURE you're not gonna cripple or kill any
    body else.
    
    			Dave G. (Who, as a ski bum in Vail, helped take 
    				 several friends to the medical center
    				 who were wiped out by speeders who
    				 "thought there was nobody around.")  

    Hey Everybody,
    Dave G. I do not agree with the 50-75 ft.  I save my fastess and
    hardest runs for places (i.e. dirt roads and early morning rides) where
    I can see, well sometimes 50 ft, at least 75 ft in front of me. I have
    some prime areas around CXO (i.e. High Drive, Gold Camp Road and sometimes
    Section 16 early morning because it is a single track, among others).  I
    will admit, I do get carried away sometimes when I should not, but I
    I yell excuse me before a corner that I can not see around or will slow
    the bike down way before the corner.  I even took a digger into the
    bushes one time because I had a case of cranial rectal insertion  and
    was not paying attention in watching for hikers.  Well enough of my
    rambling. 
             Keep Pedallin'
                  Bob
    P.S. Slowing the bike down way before the corner is the BEST way to do
    it.

    re: .17
    
    Isn't yelling "excuse me" while going around a semi-blind or blind
    corner sort of like being in your car and honking your horn to
    run through a red traffic light?  As a trail runner, I can tell
    you that this is the main reason (not trail erosion) cyclists are 
    getting banned by the National Park Service--even the conscientious 
    ones, well intentioned as they may be, are frequently unsafe.
    
    The ski resorts can offer a good solution by making it a "bikes
    only" path and keeping everyone going in the same direction.  You
    could not enforce that in the parks.
    
    r�

    RE: .18
    
    You don't necessarily go in one direction at Killington or any other
    ski area.  You can ride your bike up the mountain.  Killington has 
    some loop trails that start at the top and end at the top.  You could 
    ride them in either direction. 
    
    /mjf  

    RE: .17
    
    Here in New Hampshire, we yell when going around blind turns, too.
    But it's to protect US not THEM as the typical NH hiker is packing
    a big mother gun for taking down Bambi... (at least during hunting
    season).  Certainly puts a spin on cycling safety.
    
    Of course, the faster you are going, the harder it is for THEM to
    get off a good shot - that's why I like to ride fast %^)
    
    mud-man mark

    re:last
    
    
      Speeking of which. Last month I was riding under the power lines, 
      started in Derry NH. I got to hill and could hear these gun shots.
      I know it is not hunting season on any kind. Anyways I reached the 
      top of the hill, there is a dirt road, which is also used by dirt
      bikers, a bullet sat in a tree about 10' away from me. So I started
      yelling 'Hey coming through...'. I found on the other side this
      field with a junked car and there were these guys, target shooting
      at the old car and bunch of coke cans etc...all infornt of the 
      bike path. I aproached them realy freindly with the biggest smile
      I could put on and reminded them that there are MTBers riding 
      through and there is a dirt road and poeple hike there etc...
      I was told 'hey guy, this is OUR playground and no *%#@ cyclist is
      going to ruin our party so bit it. 
      Well obviously I wasn't about to argue with a bunch guys with guns.
      So I am just not riding there anymore. just a word of cution, beware
      where you ride. 
     
    
     Shaw
    

    Hey Everybody,
    Re: .18  I never thought of that way (running a red light in a car).  I
    guess I need to rethink going fast around corners in mid-day.  Thanks.
                                                    Keep Pedallin'
                                                         Bob

    
    
    Hi Bob (and others);
    
    	I'm not getting on anybodys' case about going fast. I used to race 
    motocross and play raced a lot on skis when I lived in Vail. I'm just
    saying that you (we) should only fly when we know that we're not 
    endangering other people/animals/buildings. That's all. Having fun
    is great, but our right to have fun stops at the point where we start
    doing damage or are in danger of doing damage. 
    
    	Have a blast. Just don't endanger anyone/thing else. I'll get off 
    the soapbox. I don't think we're really disagreeing here, I just wanted
    to put in a reminder. 
    
    				Dave G.
    
    
     	

    Hey Everybody.
    Dave G.  I understand and agree.  Thanks
                                            Keep Pedallin'
                                                 Bob

                          MT SNOW TRIP REPORT

   We arrived at MT Snow around 8:15am and browsed the bike shop until
the lift opened at 9:00.  I didn't realize how many accessories there are
for MTB.  You could spend a lot of money (as if the bikes don't cost
enough) if you really wanted to.

   Anyway the lift opened up and we were on our way.  First thing I noticed was
that they hang the bikes by the frame at Mt Snow instead of the front tire like
Killington.  On the way up my friend Mike and I decided to take trail #4 on the
first run. It was a work road that came right back to the lift.  We figured it
would be a nice warm-up ride. 

   We got to the top and away we went.  I expected the trail to be like the
ones at Killington, but this road was considerably bumpier than any of the
roads at Killington.  The first 1/3 was very rocky and traction was minimal. I
don't think there was even a couple of seconds that we weren't on the brakes.
The next 2/3 were smoother with a lot of jumps, but you really couldn't get
airborne because they were for the most part one right after another.  We both
made it to the lift without incident although our brakes were probably
overheated 8-).

   The next ride up we decided to take trail #1.  The description said
something like single track and blah blah blah...by this point I was feeling
like somewhat of a semi-pro at this and my attitude was like "yeah yeah I've
seen it all before."  Surprise!!!! when we reached the trail Mike looked back
at me and said "I don't know Ed.."  I looked and saw a VERY narrow trail go
straight into the woods over some roots and around a very sharp corner.  I was
like, "hey this looks like fun", I pedaled went over the roots, lost traction
and tried to put my feet down before I fell over, but notice I said tried...I
have to get used to pulling my feet out of the clips in a panic situation.  Ok,
I get back on, put my right foot in the clip and tried to resume my course,
notice I said tried again. 
              ^^^^^
   When I started I found that it is VERY difficult to get both feet in the
clips, while trying to keep enough speed as not to fall over, watch the trail
and avoid all the rocks and such.  Well I didn't fall but I had to walk my bike
to a nice flat spot (not very many) before I could get started again.  By the
end of the day though I found a neat way to do this, if you lean against a tree
while sitting on your bike you can put both feet in the straps without falling
over, but you have to be careful because it's pretty steep in some spots. 

   After crossing a couple of ski slopes and more of what I described above, we
came to an intersection where we could get off trail#1 and on to #8.  This
trail was the most fun, it starts off going down a grassy slope (very hard to
stop in),  this was kind of difficult because it vas very very bumpy in some
spots that looked pretty smooth, I almost lost grip of the handlebars a couple
of times.  After the grassy parts it also goes into the woods, but it is not as
difficult as trail #1.  The terrain was a little smoother and we were able to
negotiate the entire trail without getting off the bikes. 

   The next time up we decided to take trail 7 via trail 6.  Trail #6 is mostly
uphill to #7 nothing really exciting just a lot of heavy breathing.  I
 remember seeing something about infamous in the description line next to trail
7, and when we started riding it, I found out why.  This has to be the most
difficult trail they have, it consisted of what I described in #1, and #8, but
also add more mud, 
and water and parts that were bare rock.  I probably did more walking
than riding but it still was a lot of fun.  This trail is where I learned
how to lean against a tree and get your feet in the clips.  At the end of
this trail it goes down a ski slope and what was really neat was that they
had two sets of flags set up for slalom towards the bottom so you could
race someone side by side.  This is where tragedy struck, we just started
when Mike's front tire got caught in a rut covered up by the grass. 
Somehow he ended up getting thrown from the bike and when he got back
on his bike he noticed his front rim was bent.  We brought it to the
repair shop and before we even said anything the guy behind the counter
said "toooaast."  He said it was going to cost at the very least $50 to
fix the rim.  And neither of us had the money.
   
   So ended our day at Mt. Snow, but I would have to say that I find the slower
more difficult trails much more fun than the fast work roads. I would have to
give the thumbs up to Mt Snow over Killington.  They had more of a variety of
terrain to offer and they were a little more organized. We saw several groups
of people being guided by instructors, I guess their MTB school has a pretty
decent rep.  BTW the lift ticket was $20, compared to the $15 at Killington. 
All in all it was a good day on the mountain. 

                                  Cheers - Ed

P.S.  I just remembered something I was going to mention, at Killington
everytime we stopped, there would be all these nasty little black bugs
that would swarm us like sharks during a frenzy.  I didn't notice any of
these little creatures at Mt. Snow.  Only an occasional deerfly buzzing
around.