Conference noted::bicycle

    I can tell you little about them except that the 787 alloy is also
    known as "Futural", whatever that means, and the 787 frame has a
    wishbone rear stay, a feature I am in favour of since my own frame has
    one.
    
    
    Rod

>            I can tell you little about them except that the 787 alloy is also
>    known as "Futural", whatever that means, and the 787 frame has a
>    wishbone rear stay, a feature I am in favour of since my own frame has
>    one.

	You're not in favour because it's great or wonderful - but because yours
has the feature ??     ;>)

	I pressed on the axle of a Futura with my foot, it was very flexible -
certainly more so than the 979 or 992.  I suspect it is a different construction
- the lugs look different and it is enamelled as well, it is over-transferred
a lot over here in France, but then so are most of the Vitus frames.  Despite
its apparent value, I don't see many - the 979 is the standard here on the C�te.
I would try to find some-one who has one - getting an objective judgement may be
more difficult (see my note on the poser with the 992 !!), riding with your own
requirements in mind is the ONLY answer.........
    

    What's the difference between a 979 and 992?  Bicycling awhile back
    reviewed the 992 available from Colorado Cyclist and was impressed. 
    They suggest that it was the 992 that yer man rode to victory in
    Milan-San Remo.  Can you verify that?
    
    Thanks,  Don
    
    P.S. Could you provide a pointer to your 992 poser note?

VITUS 979
---------
The 979 has been around for a long time, some 100,000 examples having been 
produced.  As Dural frames go, it is very conventional, its tubes are 
standard shape and size and it accepts conventional components.  It has sort 
of cast lugs and the tubes are glued into them.  It has a Dural fork as well.

Its dimensions and angles are equally conventional, so that it will take 
23mm HP's or sprints without looking ungainly.  One thing which could be 
remotely described as "different" is the Allen Key setpin bolt which locks 
onto the seatpin - I would recommend the Vitus seatpin which has a machined 
flat to suit this.  In addition you may need an extra little "thingy" washer 
for the down tube gear levers, but I think this is common to the majority of 
Dural frames and they are readily available.  The rear brake cable passes via
another tubes in the toptube.  Gear cables have the usual plastic Vitus device 
under the bootom barcket and there is a lug for the rear gear cable and bolts 
for a single bottle cage.

The finish is a sort of lacquer on the 3 main tubes, leaving the rest Dural 
coloured - while it doesn't go rusty, mine has gone a bit "mildewed" in the 
way of most aluminium but it's not bad and I do sweat a lot.  They come in 1cm 
increments from about 50 to 58, and this is measured centre-to-centre so you 
need about � inch less if you are used to the conevnetional "centre of BB to 
top of seat lug measurement".  Price around 3000 FF ($600 ??).

Handling is good, better than my old steel Pete Mathews and the training 
Raleigh, but not a patch on my old Rory O'Brien which was a converted track 
frame, but that unfortunately died from a fracture in the seat stays and 
anyway it would have had trouble with 3 rings and 7 sprockets.  It does have
the great advantage of soaking up poor road surfaces, which is a definite plus
down here on the C�te.  I should add that most of my riding is done in fairly
mountainous terrain, the sportif events are in the same scenery in the company
of 500 - 2500 others, and descending long slopes on narrow roads with
indifferent surfaces means you need to be confident.  I have not had any nasty
moments (to date).


VITUS 992
---------
Rob Rowlands has one of these and can give you some more details, particularly 
on the handling issues.  However, not knowing has never stopped me before....

The main criticism of the 979 and even more so on the 787 has been lack of 
rigidity, and this is probably true if you are looking for an out-and-out 
racing frame.  Us Old Codgers are built for comfort rather than speed, so some 
lack of stiffness is acceptable to us.  I should add that the comparison is 
difficult, you need to compare against a steel frame which has been built for 
extra rigidity to really notice, certainly it is the same as my Reynolds 531DB 
Mathews  (and more comfortable).

To this end the tubes on the 992 have been "ovalised" at the ends where they 
meet the lugs and particularly at the BB.  The headtube and fork crown have 
been "aero'ed" and need a special Mavic/Vitus headset at a fairly extortionate 
price.  The rear stays have been shortened and it is impossible to get a 23 mm 
rear tyre in it.  Otherwise it is the same as the 979, except it takes 2 
bottle-cages and I believe is available to 60 cm.  There is no doubt that it 
is stiffer if you use the well-known technique of "foot on BB spindle and 
push".  Price around 4250 FF ($800 ??).

When I was looking for a new frame, I went for Al to avoid the rust bug and I 
must admit that the 992 did tempt me, but the extra price and the restrictions 
put me off somewhat.

What would I buy now?
--------------------
I don't like unconventional frames at all, so Treks and Giants don't attract 
me in the slightest, and I like to use standard components as far as possible. 
The only thing I have seen which I really covet is another Al frame built by 
a small outfit near Lyon.  I think it was called a Wolhauser or something like 
that - it was featured in "Le Cycle" and is an all welded construction, and 
was recommended as an ideal cyclo-sportif machine.  It was about the price of 
the 992, but in my opinion, more attractive.

The 992 poser-note?  Sorry I can't find it easily, it was probably a rathole on
another topic - maybe in another notesfile (!!!).  I'll look around when I get
a moment.

    
    Well I can definitely confirm that yer man won the Milan-San Remo on a
    vitus 992, and he appeared on all photos this year riding it.
    
    I'm really pleased with my 992 since it suits the kind of riding I do -
    I'm a similar cyclist to Robin (-1) in that I'm no Criterium man (so
    utmost rigidity is not an issue), I cyclo-sportif events of 100-200k
    in mountainous areas.
    I used to have a cheap Columbus Aelle frame, and the Vitus definitely
    is more comfortable & lighter; I've noticed no difference in rigidity
    as compared to the columbus, and the Vitus is much faster off the mark
    under acceleration.
    
    Even though the rear stars are Very short - 39 cm - I've no trouble
    with a triple stronglight front and a shimano 8 sp rear. From the
    middle ring I can get all 8 gears on the back. The short stays do mean
    that a 23mm tyre rubs the seat tube however, and so is impossible to
    fit! That's not an issue for me since the frame absorbs a lot of road
    harshness in any case.
    
    Handling is fine, stable, easily directed, nothing unexpected.
    
    I'm 6'2" and about 165lbs - I've a 58cm frame - I think that's the
    biggest; the size is fine for me (the columbus was 60).
    
    The only minor nit is slight discolouring of the clear-lacquered
    aluminium on the forks, though it's only noticable when you're a foot
    away - it's not really a big issue. I should get in touch with Vitus
    and see what they recommend for cleaning that.
    
    Hope that helps - anything else just drop me a line - I'm not a regular
    reader here.

    Thanks for your detailed replies.  I've been riding an old Motobecane
    Grand Record (with Brooks Pro saddle of course) since 1976.  I'm
    looking to upgrade to something a little lighter and more comfortable. 
    I like the rust free feature of AL since I live near the beach.  I love
    to climb and ride the hills and canyons in Palos Verdes and Malibu.  I
    do two or three centuries a year and would like to try the "death ride"
    this year.  
    
    I'm leaning towards the 992.  The noodle reputation that Vitus has
    around here seems to be solved.  I'm 5'9" 150lbs so it's not an issue
    for me anyway.
    
    Are there any other frames I should look at in this price range?
    
    Thanks,  Don

i just spent this summer riding a loaner road bike that may be what the vitus
people were copying when they created their new frame. it's an SR Litage bonded
slightly oversized aluminum. i don't know if they make them anymore though.
being 6'3" with gumby (long) arms and legs i found the tight 59.5 frame cramped
and being a chicken s&^% i found the steep (74.5) head tube angle made its
handling feel too twitchy for my tastes. but for you it could be fine. i never
found it to be whippy though, probably due to the slightly large tubes and the
fact that i'm only 155 lbs. and it sure is light.

it may be unfair to steel to compare an aluminum to whatever steel your
motobecane was made of. you probably owe it to yourself to try a steel bike too.
for someone your size you should easily be able to find many quality frames that
fit you and aren't too expensive. take a look in the sales they have in velo
news. you might be able to find a closeout on last year's stuff. i hear that the
bridgestone RB1 is actually quite a nice bike for *cheap*.

one disadvantage of aluminum is repairability. i believe that a lugged steel
frame is still the easiest to repair. a tube gets dinged and you can pull it out
and put in a new one.

finally i just got a nivacrom bike and have only been out on a few rides on it
but i swear the thing absorbs road shock *better* than the SR litage. it also
seems to handle more to my squeamish liking. will have to ride it alot more to
be sure.

good luck.

    
    I'm surprised that a nivacrom frame smoothes out the bumps at all -
    my new mountain bike certainly doesn't, with its nivacrom oval main
    tubes and oversized chainstays.  My Alan road bike feels like a '62
    Eldorado compared to this beast.  We're talking stiff, precise, very
    responsive, and hard on the hands and seat.  A suspension fork looms
    as soon as the cash flow recovers.
    
    I assumed that tube configuration was only partially responsible, and
    that the material must be very, very stiff.
    
    Will Monin
    Seattle

    MAX tubing was built to be very stiff, not very easy on the body.  
    Great stuff for sprinters, crit's, and larger riders.  The new
    Nivacrom EL, is a lighter gauge, thus more easy on the body.
    In the tandem world, my Santana with Nivacrom is easier on the body
    than the regular Columbus or Tange.  
    
    Steve

>    MAX tubing was built to be very stiff, not very easy on the body.  
>    Great stuff for sprinters, crit's, and larger riders.  The new
>    Nivacrom EL, is a lighter gauge, thus more easy on the body.

the serotta colo II is made of the Nivacrom alloy but the tube dimensions are
specified by serotta and custom made by columbus so these tubes are neither MAX
nor EL.

as far as the road feel. well we all know how subjective that can be. i've only
ridden it outside a few times as i didn't get it set up 'til mid december so i
might have spoken too soon. we'll see.