Conference noted::bicycle

    Marionetti??  Never heard of that name!  First thing that you may want
    to check is the type of thread.  You may have an English BB and an
    Italian box (or vice-versa).
    
    Eric

>    to check is the type of thread.  You may have an English BB and an
>    Italian box (or vice-versa).
    
    
    No, definitely not an ENGLISH BB.  The english BB cross diameter is
    much smaller than the Italian.
    
    I believe that is the name/spelling,... I'll check it out again though...
    
    
    	-John

>    No, definitely not an ENGLISH BB.  The english BB cross diameter is
>    much smaller than the Italian.

    What do you mean by "cross diameter"?

    -Jeff

    Jeff,
    
    Sorry, what I mean is the diameter across the two screw in parts(cups).
    These would be perpendicular to the spindle.
    
    -John
    

I believe you are in error regarding the differences between Italian and English
bottom bracket threads.  The Italian and English each have the same diameter,
and pitch (number of threads per inch).  However, the threads are cut at 
different angles, leading to different thread depths, hence incompatible.

If you cut a cross-section of the threads of each, you'd notice that the Italian
threads come to a sharper point.  (I don't know how else to explain it.)  So,
if you mate English and Italian threads, the Italian piece usually shows some
galling as the tops of the threads are crushed to accomodate the shallower
English depth.

Italian bottom brackets are wider than English (170mm vs 168mm), and French 
threading is much smaller in diameter than either of the others.

Sounds to me like you have an Italian threaded frame, and an English threaded
bottom bracket.  Probably not a good idea to force the fit, since the part
that you will most likely keep the longest is the one which will sustain the
damage.

Jim

    Thanks Jim.
    
    I won't discount this option that you discussed.  Since I have two new
    BB's at home(one english, one italian), I will try them both.  The
    reason why I thought that they were different sized diameter is that
    this past summer I took off all of the components on my Univega Super
    Strada.  The components are the old Dura Ace(dyna drive series).  I
    tried putting the BB in the Marionetti and it just slid right in - much
    smaller than the hole that accomidates the BB.
    
    The UNIVEGA used an English BB - or so I believed.  Like I said, I'll
    have to give it a try tonight to see.
    
    thanks again.
    
    	-John

    The real name.

    Just as I expect: Marinoni.  Then you definitely have an Italian
    thread (not to mention a good bike (flag waiving)).
    
    Question:  Isn't the Italian thread reverse to British (or the other
    way around)?
    
    Eric

    Thanks Eric,... glad to know its a good frame.  I sort-of picked it up
    from a buddy rider since my current frame is WAY too big.
    
    But, again last night, I tried both the English and Italian.  Well,
    like I mentioned earlier, the ENGLISH just slipped in, not catching any
    of the threads, AND the ITALIAN would not go in.  Just talked w/ the
    previous owner and he said that he recalled that the old BB was tough
    to get out, but it was an ITALIAN.
    
    Hmmmm,... I know BB sizes are suppose to be standard BUT could Shimano
    be slightly different?  Doesn't make sense, but this is Shimano that
    we're talking about.
    
    -John

    BTW - I have both BBs here at work.(If anyone wants to know any #s)

    John just brought the peices over to my desk.
    I guess the source for my "English is the same dia as Italian"
    rumor was mistaken.  They are indeed of different sizes.

    As they say:
    "One measurement is better than a thousand expert opinions."

-Jeff

Since the old BB was tough to get out, perhaps the threads are damaged and need 
to be "chased", ie, cleaned up and repaired.  Do I remember correctly that the 
Italian BB starts ok, but hangs up and the owner is reluctant to force it?

Kevin

>Since the old BB was tough to get out, perhaps the threads are damaged and need 
>to be "chased", ie, cleaned up and repaired. 
    
    That's one option.  Eric referred me to Chelmsford Cyclery since they
    do alot of work w/ Marinoni and have the proper tools to "chase" them. 
    (Although most bike stores should.)
    
    
>    Do I remember correctly that the 
>Italian BB starts ok, but hangs up and the owner is reluctant to force it?
    
    Right you are,..it DOES start out ok... for say 8-10mm, but then hangs
    up.  I was thinking that possibly the thread width was different and it was
    hanging up after the "give" was taken up.
    
    More cleaning tonight and then off to the bike store if it doesn't
    solve the problem.
    
    -John

    IT'S IN!!!!!!!
    
    I used an ol' dental pic type tool to clean out the threads.  There was
    quite a bit of metal scrap caught inside the grooves from when the last
    BB was taken out.
    
    Thanks for all of the advice.
    
    -John

    That's OK, the bill is in the mail...
    
    Eric