Conference noted::bicycle

    For a while I've been thinking about building an all-weather bike.

    The plans call for:

        Complete chain case.

        5 speed Sturmey archer hub.

        Zipper style fairing and fenders.

        Gel-cell based rechargeable lighting system.

        Oil or grease nozzles for all bearings.

        Double walled panniers.


    Is this close to what you were thinking?

    -Jeff Bell

How 'bout a hybrid with a fairing?  Has good tires for bad road conditions, 
probably has brazons for fenders, racks and lights (you can put serious lights on 
ANY bike... just take a look at my tandem, and racing bikes...).

A mountain rack on the rear should accomodate anything you've got to carry. 

If I was going to commute (and I've been thinking about it) during the New 
England winter, this is the setup I'd use.  The only question is which hybrid? 
An expensive one like the Specialized?  Or a cheap on like the Nashbar? 
Probably best to go cheap due to the wear and tear of bad weather.

Where do you work?

    If you're serious about riding in snow, etc., a cheap possibility might
    be a second hand Raleigh Twenty or Folder. The advantages:
    
    	- 20" wheels mean lower center of gravity for better balance on
    slippery surfaces and you can put modern BMX tires on them
    	- everything's internal with the 3 speed hub so it'll survive the
    elements well if you just oil it
    	- low maintenance
    	- compact, especially the folder
    	- cheap: they run $50-100 used
    	- mudguards are standard
    	- a fairing would mount nicely on the front bars
    	- lamp bracket on the front is standard (some models came with
    lights) as is a rear rack 
    	- can be easily upgraded to lighter (and more expensive) wheels,
    brakes, etc.
    
    Disadvantage: hard to find.
    
    If you want the more esoteric, there's always the Moultons, which can
    easily run over $1000.

    
    
    	Wow!  Almost my exact parameters.  The only thing I wasn't 
    	requiring was the fairing.  Now I'm wondering ...
    
    	What I bought: Bianchi Boardwalk      		 @ $400
    		       Blackburn Rack & Nashbar panniers ~ $100
    		       BriteLite lighting system         ~  120
    		       Mt.Zefal fenders			 ~   20
    
    	So far, at about 800 miles, I'm pretty happy.  I think the lights
    	are great for being seen, marginal for seeing.  In your case,
    	I'd expect to need a double set.  I've been caught with a
    	discharged battery at dusk and wished I had a second!
    
    	The bike has been GREAT!  It doesn't shift as smoothly as my road
    	bike, but once you get adjusted to it's required techniques it's
    	very reliable.  It has 700 size wheels with a snow tire type tread
    	but you can pump them up to about 75 pounds.  On my 15 mile ride
    	into work I just about break even on time between the 2 bikes
    	because the speed I lose on top end with the cross-terain I gain
    	back because I don't have to be so careful of potholes and 
    	glass.
    
    	One thing to think about if you haven't, cold and wet hands and 
    	feet!  My body stays pretty warm even wet, which is why I haven't
    	had to do the fairing yet, but, BOY, cold wet feet ruin a good
    	ride.
    
    						Roger

    I use my touring bike (just clean it more often), stick some lights
    on it, use a fanny pack, wear a Goretex suit (don't need fenders),
    and don't ride in snow.  But then again, I prioritize your last item,
    "as fast as my touring bike", at the top of my list.  Save ya some
    bucks though!  .02 kb
    
    

�                      <<< Note 1774.5 by OLDTMR::BROWN >>>

�    I use my touring bike (just clean it more often), stick some lights
�    on it, use a fanny pack, wear a Goretex suit (don't need fenders),
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    This is nonsense - fenders in my experience cut down the sand and crud
    by well over 90 percent.  I think it's crazy not to use them on a winter
    bike even if you do wear rain gear. And fenders keep the bike vastly
    cleaner.

    I'd strongly urge anyone doing year-round riding to have them on one of
    their bikes.

    - Jim

    I've basically given up riding into work now that it's dark at 5:00.
    I can live with rain, cold, and possibly a little snow on the ground.
    I really wonder if the addition of lights would give me the visability
    I need. My commute takes me thru narrow, curving, residential roads
    for the most part. I had a couple of close calls in daylight - I can
    imagine what it would be like in darkness, possibly with less road
    given the presence of snow banks.
    Are there lighting systems out there that really make a cyclist
    stand out?
    
    John

Depending on the traffic conditions, I actually think that night riding can be
safer than daytime.  Assuming you're using lights strong enough to give you good 
visability so you can miss those potholes, you can be more aware of cars at
night:

- If you're using a mirror, you'll notice a car's headlights behind you long 
   before you would notice the car in daylight.

- You can see the headlights of a car coming around a bend... you can't do that 
  during the day.  

- By watching your shadow as a car approaches you from behind, you can tell if 
  its trying to run you down.  Your shadow should move from in front of you, to 
  the right and toward the back, as a car passes you on the left.  (Reverse that
  for some places outside the US).

- If you're "lit up like a Christmas tree" you're more likely to be seen by car
  drivers.  They may not know what it is they see... usually that makes them 
  more cautious.

Kevin

I've been using my touring bike for commuting, since I resort to the car when
the weather is bad, I don't worry about fenders.  I bought some lights (Cateye)
and put them on my mountain bike because I figured that I'd change to that as
the roads get sloppy.

Since the roads that I ride on are lit, the lights are there to make sure that
I'm seen.  I've taken the bike out for a ride at night, and I've had no problem
getting noticed by motorists.  Lately I've been considering moving the lights
to my touring bike so that I could continue to use it as sunset moves closer to
4pm.  What I really wish is that I could buy another set of brackets and just
move the lights from one bike to the other at will.

Rich

    Jeff Bell  sounds  like we're thinking similarly. I'm not inclined
    to  go  to  anything  too  slow  as  I've got a 12 mile (each way)
    commute.

    Even though  I  don't  need a lot of clothes to keep warm, I still
    get  cold  riding down hills in the winter, so I think I'll want a
    fairing.  Also,  fairings  are  more  effective  when you need the
    warmth most, which is when coasting down hills. For comfort in the
    rain, I would consider a full fairing, particularly if the bike is
    recumbent.

    I'm not  sure  if  all  fairings allow lights to be mounted easily
    which is why I listed both.

    I'd have  to  try a hybrid in the rain, but I suspect that it's no
    more  comfortable  than  my touring bike. Its advantage would be a
    bit  more  stability  on  bad surfaces. It would probably take the
    same maintenance as my touring bike.  

    I like  the  idea  of  an  enclosed  chain. Are there any 5 speeds
    available with it? (I've got one fair sized hill, so I really need
    some gearing.)

    As for  lights, on my touring bike I've mounted two Brite Lite 4.2
    watt  headlights,  one  on each fork blade, and I find that that's
    very  visible  (when  I  had  one 2.5 watt bulb every car I passed
    dimmed  its  headlights  for me), but just barely enough light for
    going  15 mph. I'd also like to have a little more light thrown to
    the side, as when I'm on a gradual curve there's not nearly enough
    light  on  the road. Two things I may do are to add a small helmet
    mounted light for curves, and I saw a 6 watt bulb in Performance's
    catalog.  If  it's  compatible  with  the  lamps I have now, I may
    upgrade  the  bulbs.  That  would  bring me to 2.5 amp draw on a 4
    amp-hour  battery.  Since my ride is under an hour, that should be
    ok.

    I mount  the  brite  lite  lamps  on  the Blackburn lowrider mount
    U-bolts  on  one bike, and I bought some U-bolts from the hardware
    store for the other bike's mounts.

--David

    I'd be concerned about the fairing in a cross wind because it 
    would add a pretty good force to the steering.
    
    ed

    re .6 Front fenders are a joke... they don't go low enough... the crap
    comes off the wheel and back into the drive train despite a front fender
    or not.  It keeps the bottom of the upper-portion of the down tube clean:
    whoopee.   And if they were to go low enough to be functional, then
    they're about as aerodynamic as a billboard.  Rear fenders keep the
    rider from getting a racing strip up their butt, but if you're wearing
    appropriate clothes, you don't care.  .02  -kb
     

>    I like  the  idea  of  an  enclosed  chain. Are there any 5 speeds
>    available with it? (I've got one fair sized hill, so I really need
>    some gearing.)


    S.A. 5 speeds are available, but they are pricey.
    I called Cyclegoods, and the price was ~120$US.

    I'm sure that the 3 speeds can't be nearly that expensive, and
    most of the parts are the same.

    -Jeff

	Re - .12
    
  DIRectory /ALL /TITLE=fend
                                    Bicycling  
Created: 14-APR-1986 15:47         1775 topics        Updated:  6-NOV-1990 16:38
                     -< Welcome to the Bicycle conference >-
 Topic  Author               Date         Repl  Title

         MCIS2::DELORIEA      4-OCT-1989    3.37  Time for Fenders
   118   VERDI::JBELL        31-JUL-1986     4  fender (mudguard) questions
   494    MIST::IVERSON       2-NOV-1987     4  Fenders on a *Real* Mountain Bike?
        NUTMEG::HATCHER      27-JAN-1988  517.22  Fenders?
          CADM::ROTH          1-FEB-1988  517.29  real men don't use fenders
        CASV02::SALZMANN     23-MAY-1989  1177.5  Sorry If I Offended You!!
        SVCRUS::CRANE         6-JUL-1990  1622.6  There are Fenders
        OLDTMR::BROWN         6-NOV-1990  1774.12  fenders: no thanks.
[ End of requested listing ]

  CLOSE
                         VAX Notes Computer Conferencing 
                         Enter the command HELP for help

  EXIT
    
    I'm sure there must be some benefit from using fenders in this day.
    They certainly are not, entirely without merit. I use the Blackburn
    mountain bike rack as both a rack and a fender.
    
    Don't throw away an idea because it lacks consistency. The IDEA of
    using fenders is most beneficial. The actual design could be improved.
    
    Perhaps aerodynamics are not the MOST important factor to consider,
    when designing an all-weather/all-terrain commuting vehicle?
    
    Or, install an aerodynamic seatpost to offset wind-drag created by
    bulky fenders? Oh Well, it was an idea anyway...
    
    I really get off on those new mountain bike fenders. Those pups are
    wicked awesome: makes the ATB/HPV look like a Honda CR125...
    
    							Regards,
    							 Face.

    I've been using inexpensive Zefel fenders - these are lightweight
    plastic with a metal mesh reinforcement inside.  ESGE makes a similar
    kind of fender.  It goes low enough on the front to keep most of the
    spray off your shoes, but is thin enough that the aerodynamic loss is
    actually quite small compared to the loss from wearing the extra clothing.
    Besides, I have them on my Holdsworth framed bike which is not an
    ultralight road bike anyway.  Performance sells them.

    They dramatically cut down on the mud and spash, even if they are not
    perfect.  Before I started using them even my "proper" clothing would
    get filthy, the entire bike would be filthy, the zipper on my saddlebag
    would be clogged with sand and when I did get it open, its contents would
    be soaked.

    You will still have to clean the drivetrain, and it helps to wear
    booties (necessary to keep my feet from freezing anyway) for the splash
    which remains.  But everything from your knees upward will be clean.

    I wouldn't go back to riding without them under these conditions.

    The point about fairings on handlebars is well put - it would be much
    less of a problem if the fairing was on the bike frame rather than the
    handlebars.  (There is a reason you don't see front disk wheels often.)

    - Jim

A sealed bearing chain that gathers no crud

    re: .16
    
    Did you mean :-)  or :-|
    
    I mean, like, are you serious?
    
    ed

    Re .16
    
    	That chain would be the most sought-after item on the hardware
    	market today. Sachs-Huret has a new chain that you should check
    	into. If you can manufacture a bearing, needle or otherwise, small
    	enough to design a chain around, mortgage the farm...
    
    	You'd be president (or high level officer) of a very profitable
    	business.
    
    	And you wouldn't have to limit your market to the commuting sector
    	either.
    							Face.

> A sealed bearing chain that gathers no crud

That was the point of the chain case.
An enclosed chain would gather no crud.

Unfortunately, that eliminates derailleurs.

-Jeff Bell

I was thinking of converting my touring bike into something better for short
trips around town. The criteria were that it should be no hassle to just 
hop on and use, need minimum maintenance but still be fast.

What I would build would be: 
- Start with a decent frame, ideally something like a Cannondale touring
frame which I understand is very stiff, important when you're carrying load.
- Build a pair of wheels round a three- or five-speed hub, ideally one that
incorporates hub brakes. Use 700C rims and, say, 28mm tyres. 
- Tyres and tubes to be extremely puncture-resistant, especially with bolt-on
hubs.
- Flat bars with thumbshifter for the gears.
- ATB-style pedals.
- Mudguards and a good pannier rack.

I think you could end up with a responsive, fun-to-use bike that you could
tear round town on. No need to worry about gear mechanisms becoming
gunge-encrusted, no punctures, no lack of braking in the wet. It would be
very stiff with the good frame and also because building wheels onto hub
brakes would be like using high-flange hubs. Only problem is that I'm not 
sure that a good-quality hub gear cum brake exists.


Rod

> .17 

It is :-) when considering it and :-| when I am cleaning a grimy chain.
On an off-road bike there is a whole lot more chain cleaning than on a road
bike.

I saw an interesting chain cover on bicycles that were used on the beach and
had multispeed hubs instead of derailleurs.  It was not a chain enclosure but a
toroid tube with a slot on the inner surface.  It fit on the outside of the
chain leaving a slot in the chain for cogs and freewheels to connect to the
chain.  It reduced the quantity of sand that accumlates with beach riding.

I've been commuting by bike for 15 years here in the "Greater Maynard" area.
My current commute from Stow to Westford is about 13.5 miles.

My basic commuting outfit consists of an abusable touring bike frame
(a Raliegh Grand Prix, if anyone remembers them), with 10 speeds from
about 30 to 100 inches, 27 x 1.25 tires, a 6 watt generator light with
battery backup, and fenders.

As far as performance goes, I don't find that this collection slows me down
considerably :-}.

Lights:  I prefer a generator light because I don't want to miss a day of
riding because I forgot to plug my batteries in.  And, the occaisional
trip to Nashua can give me nearly a 2 hour commute at night-- that means a lot
of battery power.  Unfortunately, the 6 watt generators are no longer sold
in the US :-{ .  So, I'm hoping I'll be able to find one before my 8-year
old one dies!!  The battery backup is for stopping at intersections and
in the event of rain (yes, that is a drawback of generators).  I also
have a 1 watt tail lamp and a battery-powered barricade flasher (this is
powered by the backup battery for the headlamp).

Fenders:  Yes, they keep the crud off your bike.  Mudflaps don't seem to
come on fenders any more (Bluemel's used to have them) so I make my own.
The mudflap is on the front fender and *does* keep the crud off your
chain and the water off your feet.  But most of the crud on my bike
comes from above (i.e. sweat) and this is far and above the most
destructive force on my bike.  I try to wipe it off when I stop, and
wash it every once in a while, but still the salt manages to damage
the paint and then rust.  I need a body fender!

I also have Zzipper fairing for the rain and cold.  The speed advantage of
a fairing of this sort is minimal-- but boy, does it keep you dry!  And
it adds considerable warmth.  Also for winter riding I have toe-clip covers
(again, they don't make 'em anymore) but I've made my own copy of them.  These
are Cordura covers which go on with velcro.  (If anyone wants the pattern for
these, I'll send it to you).  Usually the Zzipper and the toe-clip covers go
on in November and stay on until April-- after that, I just use them for
rainy days.
                                 --tom

   <<< Note 1774.22 by HANNAH::PORCHER "Tom, Terminals Firmware/Software" >>>

>                         Also for winter riding I have toe-clip covers
                                                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> (again, they don't make 'em anymore) but I've made my own copy of them.  These
> are Cordura covers which go on with velcro.  (If anyone wants the pattern for
> these, I'll send it to you).  Usually the Zzipper and the toe-clip covers go
> on in November and stay on until April-- after that, I just use them for
> rainy days.

    I bought a pair of those at Nashtrash last fall; they may still have
    them this year.  They do help, in conjunction with neoprene booties,
    on the really cold days.  They are really simple and could be made up
    easily.

    - Jim