Conference noted::bicycle

    My girlfriend has a Raleigh Technium "Peak" frame with an assortment of
    Shimano components, mainly.  I have the privilige of working on it.
    
    She's pleased with it so far, after approx. 200 miles of riding, 90%
    off-road.  Biggest complaint is about this year's Shimano push-button
    shifters, which are integrated with the brake levers.   Result is that
    you can't adjust the position of either without moving the other--this 
    really stinks and I would avoid if you have any choice at all.  
    
    Do you know what the bike is equipped with in the way of components?
    

    I own a Instinct, I found that for the price I got the best frame that 
    Raleigh has and the Shimano LX groupo. I got the Instinct at Haggetts
    in Manchester NH for $499.00 no one in southen NH came close in price. 
    Now the down side of the bike. I had about 500 miles on it 75% onroad
    and 25% hard off road. I rode it to the beach and lay it down by me and
    the frame just split. I was not riding the bike at this time. At the 
    joint where the Alumunim tubes and the CRO-moly steering tube come to 
    together. I took it back to the shop and they said that Raleigh would 
    replace the frame.I askeed if they have ever seen this be for and of
    couse they had not! 
    I have now been with out the Instinct for week and a half. 
    But I still have my other Raleigh ATB, Which is a Cro-Moly frame, and
    is about 4 years old.  
    
    I would still buy the same bike if the choses were the same. Best Bike
    For Under $500.
    
    Keith

This is somewhat related so I'll put it here. If a moderator chooses to move
it, ok.

Two months ago I bought 2 Raleigh CAPRIs (raod bike, I guess) at $179 each
from Ski Market in Framingham.  Took 'em in for free 'tune-up/adjustment'
2 weeks ago.

Last Saturday I took mine out and about 8 miles into a ride the left CRANK
landed in the road. (actually about 38 miles after tune up)  Was rather
discouraged with the walk home (didn't have the 'right' tools with me -
finally found and old removable pop-top by the roadside to remove the
plastic dust cover and hand tighten the nut)

Anyway, went to Ski Market yesterday morning and the mechanic happened to
meet me at the door. Said that was the second instance of that failure
on that model this year. No problem, we'll put it back on real nice and tight
and it shouldn't fail again. Just in case, here's a free wrench for your
tool bag.

Went home, changed, and said "I could loose a few pounds - I'll go for a
ride this noon. (90 + degrees)  At 2.5 miles out (bought an Avocet 30 along
with the under seat tool bag while I was there) guess what landed on the roadway

Being somewhat unhappy at this turn of events, I put the rack back on the trunk,
loaded the bike and my attitude onto/into the car and headed back to Ski
Market without changing.

Same mechanic almost fell over as I walked in the door.  I (very carefully
and calmly) explained where I work and all about these neat 'electronic
bulletin boards' and I planned on posting a note and that the tone and
outcome of this note was entirely up to Ski Market and/or Raleigh. I said
a mere replacement would not satisfy me, rather either upgrade the complete
crank, or upgrade the complete bike (I was pushin' it here) or let's get
on the phone to Raleigh.

Note: this is/was my first experience with Ski Market and I expected the 
worst even without any specific knowledge of their operations or whatever.
High volume dealers usually miss something in service. Anyway.

The mechanic said - you're right, I'm not even going to wait for Raleigh
to approve the warranty repair or suggest an upgrade - I'm gonna do it
right now, while you wait.  And off he went, tearing apart the crank, etc
from a new Raleigh priced at something around $400.  He also said, "Why
don't you go pick out a pair of riding shorts from that rack over there
for your trouble of the second trip."  The shorts were marked $34.95 on
sale for $19.95 - Large fits me nicely, thank you.

As he was installing the new dust caps, he said 'these go on with an allen
wrench, here's one for your tool bag.'

As I was leaving the mechanic said 'here's my card, if you have any problems
with either of your bikes, PLEASE ask for me by name.'  I was speaking
with Todd Rossi, Service Shop Manager of the Framingham Ski Market.

I had said I would enter this note and they had control of its tone, etc
and here it is.

I left very impressed and satisfied with Ski Market, not quite so sure
about Raleigh but not unhappy with the bike at all.  Based on this
one experience I wouldn't hesitate to recommend Ski Market.

Ray Drueke,
DTN 226.5532

    Nice to hear you got good service, however, a couple of points. First,
    Raleigh don't make components, so complaints should be around their
    choice of component or assembly method rather than their quality of
    manufacture.
    
    Second, I'm not sure whether Digital is happy with employees mentioning
    Notes to gain leverage in negotiations with shops. I'm saying this in
    the light of the memo that was circulated this year from someone high
    up, asking us to make no negative references in Notes to external
    companies, on the basis that this could land Digital in legal trouble.
    
    
    Rod

	
	
	As a moderator of the Classified_ads notesfile I got this memo a
	few months ago. In a nutshell it is a Big NoNo to involve or even 
	mention DEC in any way shape or manner in any personal business 
	disputes. 

	Paul


From:	SEAPEN::PHIPPS "DTN 225-4959 Digital Internal Use Only  05-Feb-1990 1231"  5-FEB-1990 12:47:45.66
To:	@moderators
CC:	PHIPPS
Subj:	A legal view on Notes liability...

        Alfred Thompson points out that, although he said this from the
        Law Department view, Ron is technically no longer part of that
        group. He is a lawyer and for those of you recognizing his name
        a gold star. (I sure didn't. 8^)

        He is also responsible for the P&P Orange Book.

                Mike

  [The following has been reformatted for readability.]

 From:   POWDML::SOCIAL::GLOVER "RON GLOVER CFO2-3/C19 251-1318"  2-FEB-1990 16:37:20.07
 To:     POWDML::BEING::WEISS,GLOVER      
 CC:     
 Subj:   RE: Notes files, info about other businesses, and liability

  Candidly, I think a referral file is a bad idea.  No matter how 
  "objective" a note is or might appear to be, it is only one  person's view
  of the facts.  If that view is wrong, inaccurate,  or malicious, it may
  damage the reputation and business  opportunities for that contractor. 
  Under such circumstances both  Digital and the employee who created the
  note may be liable for  damages to the contractor.  

  More critically, I have a serious question about the fairness of a system
  that allows an employee to make negative comments to 20,000+ Digital
  employees about a business without giving the business an opportunity to
  respond or defend itself.  At the same time WE CLEARLY DO NOT WANT TO open
  our notesfiles to outside businesses.  Given that the better way to manage
  this is to refrain from making negative comments in the notesfiles. 

  Please feel free to share this memo with other users or  moderators.

  I remember that note and some of the discussions in various conferences.
Looks like I didn't remember enough of it.  If the outcome had been negative,
I would have simply asked people to contact me about what happened.  

I'll have to remember not to mention DEC in business dealings in the future
(except, of course, to ask about discounts).

Ray.

    Does anybody have any experience with the Raliegh Technicum? It is also
    an aluminum frame bike, but a hybrid rather than a mountain (I think).
    
    Thanks,
    
    Dick

>    Does anybody have any experience with the Raliegh Technicum? It is also
>    an aluminum frame bike, but a hybrid rather than a mountain (I think).

    As I understand it, "technium" refers to their aluminum tubed
    cast lug frame building technique rather than any one specific
    frame design or bike design.  I think that they make technium
    road bikes as well.

    -Jeff Bell

>    As I understand it, "technium" refers to their aluminum tubed
>    cast lug frame building technique rather than any one specific
>    frame design or bike design.  I think that they make technium
>    road bikes as well.

    Raleigh technium refers I think to their technique of bonding
    (gluing) the tubes to the lugs.  They do it with aluminum AND steel.
    Since they are glued the tubes don't get heated during production, so
    the ends don't need to be as thick, that is, they don't require butted
    tubes, and the frameset is lighter.
    
    I don't have one but did look at them while shopping recently. This is
    their explanation, I have no idea whether it works.
    
    Terry

Dick,

I have a Technium Peak that I got on sale ( $600 )
about three years ago. Haven't had any problems
with the frame at all. The bike is fairly light
and gives a nice ride. I thought it was just a bonded
aluminum frame ( no steel ). There are I believe
several Technium models depending on the quality of
componentry you want ( Chill, Heat, Peak ) for
Shimano ( LX, DX, and XT ) but you might want to
check on this. And this is for the Mtn. bike line.
I'm not sure what it would be for their road line.

Mark

    Re: 7-10
    
    Thanks all. The reason for the question about Technium was that a local
    ski/bike store is having a sale starting Aug 11. They did not have
    many prices in their ad but they did feature that the Raliegh Technium
    CXC was on sale at $199, regularly $349. Since this sounded somewhat
    too good to be true I called them and found that
    the CXC is a 2 year old model hybrid that has 12 speeds and SIS indexed
    shifting. Since I was looking for 18-21 speeds and below-the-bar
    shifting, I decided to look elsewhere. I ended up buying a different
    bike last night.
    
    Thanks again for all your help.
    
    Dick