Conference noted::bicycle

     Let me share a couple of things with you that you may or may not
    be aware of. If the police did not inform you of these things it
    is not surprising as they are not suppose to dispense legal advice.
    
     1st: If you filed a complaint, the owner does become responsible
          and can/will be fined if subsequent complaints ensue.
    
     2nd: It is illegal in the state of Ma to own a dog that has not
          had the appropriate shots, licensed or is uncontrolled. Each
          of these are violations and you have the right to know what
          the police have done! Don't let them off the hook. Demand
          to know the result of your complaint.
    
     3rd: You have legal recourse. Small claims court can award (I think
          in Ma it's $1500.00) a good chunk of money for "pain and
          suffering". They will too! And the fee of approx. $25.00 gets
          picked up by the loser! If all that you have stated is accurate,
          there's no way you'll walk out with nothing.
    
    I'm glad to see that the focus is toward the owner here. There have
    been many dog discussions. The dog is usually the victim of a lot
    of bad press when the owner is the real idiot. The demeanor of the
    dog is learned behavior and if the owners were doing the lawful
    thing consistently, none of us bikers would have a beef with Fido.
    
    I say MAKE HIM PAY!!!
    
      Chip

    Laura,
    
    What a horrible story!!  I hope you recover quickly and get back on
    your bike soon.
    
    Your story really hit a cord with me because I also eagerly look
    forward to my rides after work and I have encountered my fair number
    of dogs.  Somehow my screaming at them scares them off (I'm really
    hoping that the owner hears me).  It really is a frightening experience
    and gets my heart pumping real fast.
    
    I've been told that a water pistol filled with ammonia and shot
    directly into the mutts eyes will do the trick.  (Now I know what
    to use those pockets in the back of my new biking shirt for!!)
    
    You certainly did the right thing by reporting the incident.  Now let's
    hope that all the dog-lovers out there will keep their pets on a leash.
    
    				Keep on riding!!
    
    				jl
    
    

>	    To ask for help and suggestions as to what I can bring along on
>	    my rides to prevent this from ever happening again.  I used to
>	    carry Halt but never needed it and I'm quite sure I would not 
>	    be able to assault an attacking animal with my pump.


Laura,

I have had very good sucess with a hand held boat horn that I purchased at  
Spags in Shrewsbury (MA). My experience is that the dogs fall over 
themselves trying to change directions when you blast them with the 
horn! It can be very comical!  Also, it disrupts the whole 
neighborhood, including the dog owners, when you start blasting the 
horn.  We also carry one of the horns at night when walking a small 
dog.  When we get harrassed by a unrestrained dog at 11 pm at night, 
we do a little harrassment ourselves!!!!!!!! 8-)) The horn will fit in 
either the spare water bottle cage or the side pocket of my bike bag.  
It is cheap, does not require aiming, and it does not hurt the dog 
(other than its ears).  It can also be handy with autos.  They may not 
see you, but boy do they react when you bleep them (now where's that 
truck......).  Then there was the old fart that was yelling at me, 
telling me to ge off the road......

Sorry to hear about your experience.  I have been attacked/chased by a 
number of dogs but so far they haven't gotten me.  I hope this 
experience doesn't ruin cycling for you.  Have you thought about civil 
legal action against the dog owner?  

Dave
	

    My wife got bitten a few weeks ago in Lancaster.  I believe it
    is a state law that these dogs must be held under contrained
    environment for 10 days.  If the dog officer in the town doesn't
    believe the owner will do this effectively, they have the power to
    put the dogs in a pound or at a vet.  Make sure your local dog
    officer has taken this action.
    
    steve

    
    
    Mace the dog.  Keep a can of mace velcroed under the seat....
    if a dog actually bites you or bares its teeth, MACE IT.

    My $.02
    
    	After seeing the crescent shaped wound on your leg my
    initial reaction is to agree with Chip (?) and *take* the
    guy to court.  But after additional consideration I've
    come to the conclusion that you probably have already done
    as much as you should since any other action (reporting the
    incident and having the dog restrained during the waiting
    period and making sure that this guy gets all of your medical
    bills) will not gain you any additional satisfaction and
    this guy appears to be the type that will start aiming his
    car at bikers if he looses big bucks in a court hearing.
    Besides, the first thing that is likely to happen is that
    he will have the dog put to sleep, when in fact the owner
    should rightfully claim this treatment.
    
    	I'd say keep a good attitude, i.e., don't let this one
    incident sway you from taking your evening rides.  Form a 
    support group to help you get back into it if necessary
    (I know you have two clubs to choose from for cycling companinons)
    
    	Follow the advice on the horn, mace, or even try carrying
    a cheap but loud plastic whistle suspended around your neck where 
    it'll be easy to get to when you need it.
    
    	Push for leash laws and *report* all strays, even if they are
    tiny.  They don't have to be big since you might steer into an
    oncoming car trying to avoid a mutt in the road.  (I don't follow
    this advice, but I'm going to start).
    
    	If you want to become a crusader, you'll get a lot of backing
    and support from this group, but I think that it will take a toll
    on your time and strength, that you may not want to endure when
    there's so much more biking to do this summer :-)
    
    						_Jerry

	I tend to be a hard core dog lover.  But unfortunately, some dogs are 
cursed with owners who are jerks.  Sounds like an accurate description for this
case.  Accidents with dogs do happen, but the owner's insensitivity to your 
injury is really unacceptable.  Here is an owner that doesn't give his dog 
shots and allows it to run wild.  The next victim could be a small child, and 
the results more serious.

	I like the small claims court action!  Also, I believe the 10 day 
confinement period allows symptoms of rabies to become visible.  That is 
definately worth doing.

	By the way, why aren't there leash laws in New England?

    I can't belive that the Dr. and the cops (no caps here) did not
    do more!!  This dog could have Rabies.  If that dog takes off,
    disapears etc. you may have to go through treatment.
    
    If they can not prove it had its shots, they watch the dog for 10
    days to watch for signs of the disease.  Never rule out the chance
    of the dog being bitten by an infected animal. 
    
    In Mass you have the right to use lethal force to stop an attacking
    dog! 
    
    You now have the means to stop this dog from doing this again. Please
    do what you have to do to STOP this dog before it realy hurts/kills
    somebody !!!

    no smiles here
    
    John 
    
    who_LOVES_dogs_and_cats_but_not_when_they_BITE!

                       
    Sorry to hear about your runin with the local dog owner and what
    would I do about the owner.
    Yup Chip has this one right on the money, call your lawyer! A manager
    I worked for once said EVERYONE cringes ALOT when they see the letter
    from anyone with esq. next to the return address. The dog isn't at
    fault and I'm not one for starting crusades so I'd avoid that street
    like IT had rabies but I would have an attorney start somekind of
    legal action against the dog's owner. Also I'd think of this problem
    this way that you've got a solid case against the owner and unless
    he has no assets at all a good lawyer can get you some money. That
    will do more than leash laws or anything else because what you want
    is not to make the owner a criminal but to make him responsiable
    for the actions of his dog and a lawsuit will do that. There is
    a problem if the owner is a dead-beat type who owns nothing but
    your lawyer can find out if its worth it. Just informing most people
    that your considering legal action corrects alot of bad behavior.
    
    Now for my Mr.Knowitall answer for dogs...dogs can't go more than
    17 miles an hour I generally outrun them, I'm such a klutz that
    I'd probably kill myself trying to get the approriate water bottle
    to hit the darned dog. 
                                                                     
    Fred Mudgett

    Go back to the police and have the dog held to check for rabies.
    If the police will not hold the dog get a lawyer NOW! Have the laywer
    do what ever it takes to have the dog held until it can be determined
    that the dog does not have rabies. Since the dog has no record of
    shots do not accept the puke of an owners word. I do not want to
    scare you but, your life could be in danger if the dog has rabies.
    There is NO cure for rabies. If that dog happens to disappear you
    are in big trouble. One of my cousins was bitten by a raccoon which
    are a major carrier of rabies. Since the raccoon could not be located
    as a precaution she had to take a series of 27 shots. These shots
    are given in your stomach. 27 shots in the stomach. But, only if
    the dog has rabies. Have the dog monitored by pro's to know for
    sure. I would not worry about stepping on toes. I would have the
    dog locked up to know for sure.
    
     Again I don't want to scare or alarm you but, since the dog broke
    your skin it's the only way you can assure yourself to be safe.

     The problems with this situation are thus;
    
     - There are no Ma statutes covering leash laws. Only that an owner
       must control his animal.
    
     - Leash laws are town/city ORDINANCE driven. Some have 'em, so
       don't.
    
     - Some towns/cities don't even have an animal control authority/
       person. What's this mean? It means that some police will let
       this slide for more important stuff or they think themselves
       too good for "dog officer" work.
    
    IMHO I personally would not let anything slide. In fact, the police
    just knowing that individuals WILL NOT allow this stuff to fly may
    prompt them to be a little more prudent in this area. Towns/cities
    are just now uunderstanding their liabilities and the willingness
    of people to drag 'em into court. If this situation ever happens
    again with the same animal/owner. The town/police are definitely
    in line for some severe hand slapping if not a lawsuit. We're talking
    reckless endagerment here when it comes to inaction in a potentailly
    harmful if not life threatening situation. 
    
    I'd take the guy to court (small claims) and take him for every
    dime you can sqeeze out of it. Because of his attitude, he at least
    deserves to be hassled. I believe that if the owner is bruised enough
    he won't want to go through it again and might think 5 or 6 times
    about his responsibility to the public.
    
    SOAPBOX CLOSED...
    
    Chip   

Quarantining the animal is essential in a case like this. As I 
understand it, the q. is usually done at a local vet, at the owner's 
expense; one way to get a little dig in at the guy without even taking 
him to court!

As for not owning anything and being a deadbeat, we KNOW the guy at 
least owns a dog, maybe the courts would award the dog? On second 
thought, maybe not that desirable a prize :-).

                                            ken

    	If you want proof of the attack, I'd have someone take
    	pictures of the places where the dog bit you. Then, if
    	you take the owner to court, you at least have some
    	visible evidence.
    
    	Scott

     You'll definitely have to have your sh*t together to go to 
     court. Pictures area must as suggested, copies of all legal
     documents filed including the complaint and a note from your
     doctor definitely linking the injury to the animal bite.
    
     That's it! The only expense will be the pictures and maybe a
     vacation day. I've to court before and it's as easy as 1-2-3
     as long as you have your stuff. And this guy owon't have a
     prayer. Judges have a tendency to look down on these cases 
     and the guy will probably get a lecture to boot!!                       
    

    re: .9
    
    > dogs can't go more than 17 miles an hour I generally outrun them
    
    Please don't bet your life on this.  A good racing greyhound in top
    condition can come close to 40 miles an hour.  Other sighthounds
    such as the borzoi and saluki can EASILY do 20 to 30 miles an hour,
    even if they're not in peak condition.  I know:  I own two borzois
    (aka Russian Wolfhounds) and I'm not sure any cyclist could outrun
    them.  Of course, my dogs are under control at all times, but I
    just want to make the point that there are many breeds of dogs that
    can exceed 17 miles an hour with ease.
    
    Karen.

	First of all thanks to everyone for their suggestions and information. 
	I was still pretty shaky yesterday and I really	appreciated (and 
	needed) all the support.  

	I spoke to the Pepperell Dog Officer this morning and the owner 
	cannot prove that the dog had his shots but he MUST license the dog 
	now which requires taking the dog to the vet for shots so the dog 
	will be checked by a vet.  According to the Dog Officer he is suppose 
	to take the dog to the vet today.  The dog must be restrained for 10
	days and the Dog Officer must observe the dog for any abnormal
	behavior which could indicate the presence of rabies.  This isn't a 
	wild dog and the Dog Officer checked the dog to make sure there was 
	no sign of any illness.  There was an explanation as to why this
	process exists and if anyone wants more detail just send me mail.

	Because I filed a formal complaint and the dog attacked me more than
	once the Dog Officer asked if I wanted a hearing with the Town 
	Selectmen so the dog could be declared a "Public Nusiance" and would
	then have to be restrained even after the 10 day waiting period.  This
	means the dog would have to be restrained the rest of its life and
	if the dog is loose and a complaint filed, the Dog Officer can pick 
	up the dog.  Of course I said "YES I want a Hearing."


	Re .1 and .11

	Chip, your information was very useful and I had completely forgotten
	about punitive damages.  All I thought about was my medical bills which 
	will be be covered probably 100% by my medical plan.  I am very very
	seriously considering suing in small claims court because I can still 
	see those teeth, hear the dog growling and myself screaming.  You can 
	bet I'm not going to take this lightly.


	Re .2

	I like the idea of a water pistol but with my aim I'd need one
	with a spray as opposed to a stream of ammonia!  I'll have to
	check around and see what's available but this is definitely an
	option for me to consider. 


	Re .3

	I also like the idea of the boat horn because it will not only
	surprise the dog but wake up the neighborhood so there would be
	other witnesses too.  This is definitely another option.


	Re .6

	Big bucks isn't the issue here.  It's the complete lack of 
	responsibility and disregard of the dog owner.  In his mind it was 
	perfectly justifiable that the dog attacked me because the dog had 
	been hurt by someone on a bicycle about a year ago.  It didn't matter 
	to him that I was an innocent bystander or that I may have been very
	seriously injured.  Sorry, but I can't accept that.

	
	Re .9

	The legal action I am considering is small claims court.  It is my 
	perception based on the mannerisms of the dog owner, the condition
	of the home and some input of the Dog Officer that these folks could 
	not afford any legal action.  Although I would sue for punitive
	damages (and I suspect win) I seriously doubt that I would ever see
	any of the awarded settlement.  My real objective in bringing them
	to court would be to create some sense of responsibility and 
	awareness in these folks because in addition to the dog that 
	attacked me, they also have a puppy!  

			
		I'll keep you all updated and once again, thanks.

			Laura
			A former dog lover

	

	
		
    

    Ah yes, dogs, my pet peeve...
    
    It's amazing how many low-life people have dogs that go completely
    uncontrolled.  
    
    Laura, you're right.  If you take the guy to small claims court
    and win, he will probably get away with not paying the damages.
    Nevertheless, I would take him and sue for the maximum you can 
    for pain and suffering.  Then if he does not pay, you can eventually 
    get a warrant issued for his arrest.  Even this won't bring about 
    much action; that is, until he gets pulled over for a traffic 
    violation.  Then he will be arrested.
    
    If I were in your situation, I would get an initial consultation
    with a lawyer just to see what options are available and how they
    can be executed.  If the lawyer can shake the guy up by sending
    him a letter, all the better.  
    
    In response to one of the replies, I would hardly consider this
    an "accident".  Call me insensitive, but I really believe that in
    an attack like this, the dog should be destroyed - no ifs, ands
    or buts!   Maybe this will teach the other low-lifes to keep a 
    little more control over their dogs.
    
    Hope it works out for you.  
    
    Regards,
    Denis

    Re: The horn idea.
    
    I have this device on my bike, its called SuperSonic.  It attaches to
    the handle bars and this horn is really loud.  Its great to scare dogs
    and crazy auto drivers, and it works.  It can also be used as attack
    prevention from humans.  At $5.00 its easy and it works, I bought it 
    at a local bike shop.  It is small and light weight (1" X 3") and when
    you blow it people for a truck.
    
    Re: The court case.
    
    If you win and persue it they will pay plus interest from the date of
    the accident.  It may be hard to collect but you can get money or have
    objects sold or confiscated to get the money.  You can also garnish
    this persons salary.  The system does work but it does take time and
    maybe more effort than its worth.
    

    
    
    In most states you cannot ask for punitive damages in small claims. 
    You cannot even ask for pain & suffering, only for actual, provable
    out-of-pocket expenses.  So if you want to sue for P&S, you may very
    well have to go to a more superior court, such as a municipal court, or
    whatever your state calls it.  This would mean you'd just about have
    to get a lawyer.
    
    On the other hand, you can pursue the small claims route, in addition
    to the public nuisance etc. misdemeanor route.  Things you'd ask for
    would include your medical expenses (you did see a doctor, didn't
    you?), loss of time at work, damage to your bike, damage to your
    clothing, phone calls, letters, and such little things as you can
    ad.  If you haven't taken photos of your wounds, do so.
    
    If you win a judgement, and the defendant's not cooperative, there is no 
    easy way to get payment.  In some states you can do an examination of
    assets.  This means he is served with a summons to appear and answer
    the most embarassing questions you care to ask regarding his assets.
    Only if he doesn't appear when summoned can he be deemed in contempt,
    and have a bench warrant handed down on him.  You can't just jail
    someone for not paying a debt, not since debtor's prisons went away.
    
    Your best bet is to talk to the clerk at your local small claims
    office.  If they're not sure about the point of law, or think it's
    borderline, go ahead and file.  Chances are the defendant won't
    appear, and you'll get a default judgement, no matter how shaky
    what you're asking for is.  So ask for the world, itemize and show
    a dollar amount.
    
    Or you can always see a lawyer.
    
    As far as I'm concerned, I'd hate to hurt the poor animal, since it
    wasn't his fault.  But I'd do it anyway.
    
    	Dave
    

    RE.17                                                            
     Call you insenstive? No no. I'd call you right. The dog should
    be destroyed.
    RE.0
     I for one am not supprised that the owner would blamea cyclist
    for the dog's action. If you had been on a skateboard I wouldn't
    be supprised to hear that the problem last year would have been
    caused by someone on a skateboard.
    
    BTW I have a device that emmits an ultrasonic sound that is harmful
    to dogs ears. Dosen't work on motorist though,and for some reason
    it isn't as effective on small dogs. Someone did tell me that the
    only thing that was 100% effective is jalapeno juice. Try that in
    a squirt gun.

    I wouldn't worry too much about the settlement. If he's working
    and cough up the chunk all at once, he'll get put on a payment
    plan, or he'll have to take a loan out. If doesn't pay, he's
    in contempt and the court maintains jurisdiction until the case
    is wrapped up. Contempt means either a fine a sentence or both.
    
    By the way, I was in error. You will be awarded "PAIN & SUFFERING"
    not punitive. Punitive is when there is blatant intent with respect
    to harm or damage.
    
     Good luck,
    
     and, P.S. I have a doggy that wouldn't hurt a fly. You'd lover
     her.
    
          Chip

I think that those of you who think that the dog should be destroyed
should have a little more humane view of things.  If you dislike dogs,
this is not the place to voice your opinions!!!!  Start a dog-hating
conference if you'd like.  I agree that some kind of action should
be taken against both the dog and the owner i.e. they should both
be punished.  Unfortunately, the only 2 ways to punish the dog is to
leave it up to the owner (which in this case doesn't seem to add up
to any punishment at all) or to have the dog destroyed.  Don't you
think there should be some in between there?  Well, enough about the
state of the law. 

     I feel that destroying an animal just because they bite someone
is SLIGHTLY inhumane!!!!!!  This would be sort of like imposing the
death penalty for getting into a barroom fight (isn't a night in jail
and/or a fine seem much more suitable?).  Also, for those of you who
were wondering, yes, I have been bitten by a dog, in fact I was on
a bicycle when it happened.  I was only 12 years old and I was bitten
by a german shepard that was considerably bigger than me (at least it
seemed that way).  Yet I never thought the dog should be destroyed and
I still love all animals (I own a cat that gets punished via a small 
smack or getting looked in a room--the one with her litter box--for
a short period of time, if she does something wrong and won't stop.  
It's amazing how well human & reasonable punishment works for animals).
I am especially fond of very large dogs, although for about a month or
so after I was bitten I was a little wary of large german shepards :)

     I am sorry for babbling a bit here, but I believe in the humane
treatment of animals!!!!!! 

					Animals have rights too,

					Dave

P.S. I do, however, apologize for not being a vegatarian.  Sorry.

>    only thing that was 100% effective is jalapeno juice. Try that in

That's the active ingredient in HALT spray. As for it's effectiveness, a 
woman I know was sprayed accidentally in the face by her husband (I 
guess he didn't know it was loaded???). She thinks it oughta be REAL 
effective; she wasn't able to do much of anything for about an hour.

                                          ken

    
    There's a rathole here, but it's certainly humane to have a dog put
    down if it bites a 12 year-old. And what's 
    
                 -< Maybe it's not the animals that should be killed >-
    
    supposed to mean? 
    
    And I wouldn't suggest putting a dog down if it got involved in a bar
    room fight -- unless it bit somebody.
    
    Richard.

RE .22
    
    >     I feel that destroying an animal just because they bite someone
is SLIGHTLY inhumane!!!!!!  This would be sort of like imposing the

    *JUST* because they bite someone?!?!  Where do you draw the line?
    When they rip someone's face off?  Or, perhaps when they eat a couple
    of little baby humans?  Give me a break!  A vicious dog is a vicious
    dog, no matter how you try to candy-coat it.  

>   Animals have rights too,
    
    Well, I'll argue that.  If everyone has this sort of cavalier attitude,
    no person will be safe from dog attacks.  I really have to wonder when
    someone puts an animals rights ahead of public safety and human lives.


Regards,
Denis    (Who loves gentle, well behaved animals)

BTW- I plan on getting a dog for my son soon.  Probably a Golden Retriever
     or a German Shepherd.   And you can bet your bottom dollar that it will
     be controlled and free from causing any threat to the public.

    I never said I hated dogs. But, what would you do put the dog in
    jail for a night? Do you think that dog will ever change? I don't.
    I'd bet that most people on that sterrt thaty live there are afraid
    of that dog. What about the owners kids want to give odds on when
    it will bite one of them or anyone else it desires to.
    
    >     I feel that destroying an animal just because they bite someone
    is SLIGHTLY inhumane!!!!!!
     Gee I feel gitting bitten or having to avoid an area because of
    the threat of being bitten, is LARGLY inhumane!!!!!!

Well seeing how everyone else has responded to this note I guess I'll add my
2�. First of all, I have a dog and if it bit anyone like this I would destroy
it. No question about it. I don't want it to happen again to a little kid that
might need plastic surgery to put his face back on. Thank God my dog is a nice
and tame black lab that wouldn't hurt anyone. I've seen him put though the
ringer by my nices pulling his ears and tail, all he does is get up and move to
another spot and lay down with a very heavy sigh.

Last night I had two dog incidences last night on my way home. The first
happened when I was riding down a hill and a pick-up passed me slowly. In the
back of the truck was a BIG rotwieler (sp?) dog growling and backing at me,
about a foot away from my head. Talk about being startled.

Then I had a dog come out of some tall grass and chase me. It was just as I
topped a hill and was taking a long pull off the water bottle. He came rushing
out after me and all I could think of was, here goes my leg. I started
sprinting but I couldn't get away from him. I still had the water bottle in my
hand so I took aim and squirted him in the face. Oh boy was that funny. The dog
scrunched up its face like it ran into a wall and stopped real fast. :-)

Tom

    	Well, like Tom, I'll mention a dog-related story
    	(though no cycling-related). When my daughters
    	were young, they had a friend who was bitten by
    	a large dog. The dog's top teeth were on her
    	scalp; the dog's bottom teeth were under her
    	chin. So, basically, the dog had the girl's
    	face in his mouth. Understandably, it scared
    	the little girl badly. I've forgotten what
    	happened to the dog.
    
    	Sc

    	RE: My last reply.
    
    	I've never been afraid of dogs. In fact, the last
    	German Shepherd that attacked me learned his lesson.
    	Of course, I was only 22 at the time, but I basically
    	choked the dog to [near] death. I also informed the
    	owner of the dog that I'd kill the dog if he didn't
    	call him off after I let go.
    
    	Anyway, I am concerned about attacks on people by dogs.
    	Pit bulls, Rottweilers, Dobermans. When I get around
    	such dogs, I think "What would happen if that dog took
    	after some small child. I've had to deal with this in
    	past, because my oldest daughter (now 15) was terrified
    	of dogs when she was a little tyke. My mom often wondered
    	what would happen if a dog came at Heidi. I assume that
    	most small children will run, maybe into the street, in
    	front of a car, or something like that.
    
    	I certainly favor keeping dogs on a leash and under control.
    
    	Scott

  I think I should clarify what I mentioned before about not destroying
dogs that bite people--

     My point is that it's a matter of degree.  I can't tell by the
initial note if this dog is really a threat--i.e. is it really a
"vicious" dog.  My point is also that a dog who bites someone shouldn't
be automatically called a vicious dog.  My cat bites me sometimes, and
she's hardly a "vicious" cat.  I do, however, agree that something has
to be done about an animal that is a threat to people. In other words,
if someone lets their pet pitbull  roam the streets and attack people,
then the dog should be destroyed (this is also a punishment for the
owner (who should also be fined, or something) who is too stupid to
keep his dog restrained).  Also remember that dogs like to chase things, 
and sometimes the best defense when being chased is to stop, look at the
dog and yell, very loudly and very commandingly (is that a word) "STOP!".
This actually works and has worked for me twice.  Once when I was in
elementary school and I was running during a game and a dog I passed 
started chasing me, I simple stopped and so did the dog.  He just
wanted to play, too.  The second time was last November.  I was being
chased by an guard dog (I don't think it was an "attack" dog though)
on a beach in St. Maarten (all the beaches there are public, and I guess
the owner of the house I was swimming in front of liked to keep "his
section" of the beach clear of people.  As I came out of the water
the dog started chasing me.  My first reaction was to run, but after
about 50 feet I turned and yelled at the dog and he stopped.  Then
I just walked away checking over my shoulder.  Even dogs with
irresponsible owners are generally somewhat trained.

					Still saying animals have rights,


					Dave

    Sheeeeesh! I went through this in an earlier note in this file and
    I'll go through it again. The logic behind the myopic view of blaming
    an animal (all the time) escapes me. I think people give too much
    credit to the animal. Like it has an intellectual capacity to make
    judgement calls. Let's get real. I know people who don't have that
    capacity yet we put expectations on the animal.
    
    Responsibility and ACCOUNTABILTY with a capital "A" are the operatives
    here. Kill the messenger because the news is bad, ban guns becuase
    degenerates kill people with them, sue tobacco companies because
    people die from lung cancer, don't allow football cards in Ma because
    we have resident gambling addicts, etc... If someone can help here
    I'd really appreciate it!

    Dogs don't have to be vicious to be dangerous.  One spring about
    5 years ago we had a bike club ride on the Cape.  One of our members,
    about 75 years old and a good rider, was on one of the bike trails
    in Truro.  A family was walking with a dog, unleased.  The dog ran
    in front of the rider and he ended up breaking his hip.  Seventy five
    years old and a broken hip isn't doesn't have the greatest outlook.
    Another friend hit a 15 lb dog who decided to chase her, she went
    over the bars and cracked three ribs.
    
    Owners must take responsiblity, vicious or not!!!!
    
    steve

    HERE! HERE!

>>    Dogs don't have to be vicious to be dangerous.    The dog ran
>>    in front of the rider and he ended up breaking his hip. 

Ask 7-11 about black cats! 

FYI A black cat ran accross the teams path during a team time trial causing 5
riders to crash and the team lost 2 min in this years Giro d'Italia. 

I've also heard of a major pile up during the Tour of the Americas because a
big snake crossed the road in front of the peloton. 

Every time I am surpisingly "greeted" (read scared sh*tless) by a dog 
while cycling, I suddenly get chilled.  I know this has something to do 
with the "fight or flight" concept in physiology.   It's been a long time 
since my days as a biology major and was wondering if any of you have ever 
experienced the same and understand its physiological basis?

Phil

    
    Last time:  if you refuse to pay a civil judgement you don't get thrown
    into jail, and if you simply refuse to pay you're not in contempt of
    court.  In fact, nothing happens.  It's the job of the judgement
    creditor to collect.  You can't be arrested for not paying a judgement,
    not since Charles Dickens's day.   You can, at the court's discretion,
    be considered in contempt if you fail to heed a Summons.  As long as
    you just show up you're free.  You can be arrested, however, for not 
    paying a fine in a criminal proceeding.  Two different things.
    
    But another thought comes to mind:  This dog owner has home-owner's
    insurance, probably.  Thus, he probably has some liability coverage.
    Talk to a lawyer; if the lawyer smells liability insurance, just go
    about your daily life and wait for a few bucks to roll in.
    
    Some bad dogs can cause more than bike accidents.  Too often motorists
    try to swerve to avoid a dog that runs out into the street, with the
    result that the motorist hits an inanimate object, or, worse, an 
    oncoming car.  I've carefully instructed my family in the proper 
    course of emergency action avoidance driving in the event that a
    dog does run out in front of you and you can't stop in time:  Run it over.
    
    	Dave

    Re; 36> Hmmmmm. Help me out here. What is your source of information??

> Ask 7-11 about black cats! 

> FYI A black cat ran accross the teams path during a team time trial causing 5
> riders to crash and the team lost 2 min in this years Giro d'Italia. 

> I've also heard of a major pile up during the Tour of the Americas because a
> big snake crossed the road in front of the peloton. 

    
    Damn those irresponsible cat and snake owners.
    
    

    	RE: 1294.36
    
    	I have to agree about animals in my path. Last year, my
    	brother-in-law flipped (and totally demolished) his car
    	trying to avoid a dog.
    
    	I've only hit one that I know of, and I stopped, but I
    	figure my life and anyone's life around me is more 
    	important than an animal.
    
    	Scott

>    I've carefully instructed my family in the proper 
>    course of emergency action avoidance driving in the event that a
>    dog does run out in front of you and you can't stop in time:  Run it over.
    
    Does this also mean you should aim for dogs walking along the side of
the road?  How about doing everything you can to avoid hitting the dog
WITHOUT!!!! endangering yourself or any people around you?


				Dave

> Note 1294.40                      Vicious Dogs                          40 of 40
> TLE::WEISS "Dave Weiss -- ZKO(Nashua) DTN: 381-0058" 10 lines  25-AUG-1989 17:04
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>    I've carefully instructed my family in the proper 
>>>    course of emergency action avoidance driving in the event that a
>>>    dog does run out in front of you and you can't stop in time:  Run it over.
>    
>    Does this also mean you should aim for dogs walking along the side of
> the road?  How about doing everything you can to avoid hitting the dog
> WITHOUT!!!! endangering yourself or any people around you?
>
>
>				Dave
>

	Dave, I've been in situations where a dog has suddenly decided to
commit suicide under my wheels.  In these situations, you often don't have
time to carefully look over each shoulder, and look on each side of you.
In these cases, we unfortunately do not have the luxury of begging the
dog's pardon.  If it's him or my family all I can say is he's not even
in the running.

	If you've had a friend or family injured by a dog suddenly
dashing out, as I have and as a previous noter has, you wouldn't think
twice about regretfully running it over.  I hate when there's an 
accident, a human injured, and a stupid dog trotting off with its tongue
hanging out.

	My advice to my family is hit the dog.  Do not swerve, do not
jam on your brakes when you don't know who may be behind you, do not
change lanes, do not risk injuring any other cars or bystanders.  Hit the dog.

	As far as aiming at dogs on the side of the road... Dave, that's
just plain ridiculous, and I don't think you really meant to ask that,
did you?  Of course I aim at them.  The hard part is avoiding those
damned fire hydrants.

	Dave

>    Several years ago, a friend of mine had his brother and a friend
>    killed in a car accident in Billerica, MA.  They hit a tree when
>    they swerved to avoid an animal.  Is this what you expect people
>    to do, Dave?
    

     If you read one of my previous replies, you will see that I said
that one should do everthing one can to avoid hitting an animal WITHOUT 
endangering themselves or the people around them.  What I don't
believe in is not even trying to avoid an animal b/c other people
cause accidents trying to avoid them.  If you have to hit an
animal, you have to (I ran over a racoon once because there were
cars coming on the other side of the road and the road was tree-lined--
I feel bad, but there was nothing I could have done), but don't say 
"Oh, there's an animal in the road, I'd better hit it so I don't get
into an accident."

    Also, be VERY careful of larger animals (e.g. deer) especially
if you are driving a small car.  My friend's father was very nearly
killed when his car struck a deer head on.  The impact caused him
to lose control of the car, and it went into a ditch on the side of
the road.  It's surprising the amount of damage a large animal can
do to a car.

				Let's be careful out there,

				Dave.

    I vote the moderator take immediate action and NUKE this note.
    Anyone with me? I've heard enough.....

    re: .44
    
    I second the motion.

    How come any time a note has the word DOG in it we get to the point
    of nuking?

NUKE the Whales, the Dog this note what next? Maybe we should discuss the
pro/cons of nuclear fission and see if we can get really off the subject;-)

    	Well, all I got to say is:
    
    
    	Nuke the gay whales for Jesus 8-)>
    
    	That about covers it all.
    
    	Scott

                                          
    RE: .46
    Because those of us who have dogs love them, and those of us who
    ride bicyles hate dogs that chase us.
    I love dogs. I have (and have ALWAYS had) a dog. My dogs, however,
    have ALWAYS been on a leash, or under strict control. 
    THAT's why I favor the cyclist. Mace the dog. The dog will get over it.
    It's better than destroying the dog. It's better than dealing with
    inconsiderate owners. It's fast. It teaches the dog a lesson. 
    The kid who was with the dog won't want it to happen again.  
    
    

    
    Re .47
    >pro/cons of nuclear fission
    
     one con would be that you couldn't eat them -)8

     Yeah, that's true, but they'd be really easy to see in the dark!
    Now, can we stop this. I'm "dog tired"!
    
    Chip
    
    P.S. I own a dog and I'm a card carrying member of the New England
         Antivivisection Society. I think this has been beaten to death
         in SOAP!

    To stop dogs in their track buy Halt 2 (used by postal workers).
    It's available from Safety Source, Auburn Ma. 508-832-5801.  The
    product is in a small aerosol can which clips to your belt or pants
    pocket.  Sells for $39.60 for a case of 12 cans.  They will take
    your order over the phone and ship it to you.
    

    Its been about 3 weeks since this notes was posted and we've seen a
    variety of responses.  Some say Dog some say Human and some just say.
    
    The questions is what did you do?  How are you? Are your legs O.K.?
    Did you go back down that street? 
    
    Please let us know.
    

	Just to let everyone know what's happened there was a Hearing
	last night before the Pepperell Board of Selectmen.  After the 
	dog officer, myself and a witness "testified", the Board issued 
	a permanent restraining order for the dog.  If the dog is reported 
	loose now that the restraining order has been issued, another hearing 
	can be held and the Board may decide on more drastic action.  Although 
	my personal preference would have been for the dog to be destroyed, I 
	felt the decison was fair.  The owners did not even show up for this 
	hearing.  

	I've also decided to take the owners to small claims court.  I 
	haven't gotten back my medical forms to see just how much John
	Hancock has covered but I will sue for any medical that wasn't
	covered by my insurance, pain and suffering.  I don't know anything
	about small claims court so this will be a learning experience.

	I've been out cycling since (armed with Halt and/or ammonia) and even
	did a century on Saturday but still haven't been able to ride down
	that rode.  After 3 weeks the laceration has finally healed but
	there is still a scar and still some black & blue.  I'm still VERY
	jumpy when a dog approaches me but in time that will heal too.

	I also did some checking in my own town to find out what would need
	to happen to get a "leash law" approved.  There is a way to make this
	happen by amending the current bylaws of the town but it would require
	a 2/3 vote at a Town Meeting.  If I can solicit afew people to help
	out, I am going to start working on getting the momentum to make
	this happen.  


			Thanks for all the help and interest,

				Laura

			


				

    From "The Pepperell Advocate"  13 September 1989  
    
    DOG HEARING
    
    A complaint was lodged against "Shamus", a German Shepherd-type
    dog owned by Joseph DiGactamo of 22 Cranberry Street.  The complaint
    was made after an alleged unprovoked attack on a cyclist who was
    bitten on both legs.  The bites were deep enough, stated the victim,
    to require x-rays to identify any possible damage to the bone.
    
    Dog Officer Steve Tornell stated there have been no previous complaints
    against "Shamus" involving humans, but he is rather fond of chasing
    geese.  He also found the dog to be unlicensed with no proof of
    current shots available from the owner.  He added that the dog is
    now licensed, with his shots up to date.
    
    Due to the seriousness of the ocmplaint, the Selectmen voted to
    have the dog restrained on the DiGactamo property.  The Dog Officer
    related the owners comments that Shamus "doesn't like cyclists".

    

RE:                     <<< Note 1294.52 by TAC89::TELLERT >>>
                           -< NEVER ATTACKED AGAIN >-

Tellert>>    To stop dogs in their track buy Halt 2 (used by postal workers).
Tellert>>    It's available from Safety Source, Auburn Ma. 508-832-5801.  The
Tellert>>    product is in a small aerosol can which clips to your belt or pants
Tellert>>    pocket.  Sells for $39.60 for a case of 12 cans.  They will take
Tellert>>    your order over the phone and ship it to you.

    Just ordered  it.    $30/case,  quoted by Mike [who only works Thursday 
    PMs].  The person  who  took  my order [Arthur] quoted me a much higher 
    figure, somewher in the $40  range/case.  Still cheap, if I compare the 
    price to some retail catalogs I've seen.
    
    They don't take plastic, they're not retail, and only sell by the case.  
    They do UPS COD, plus UPS S&H charges.