Conference noted::bicycle

    
    Hi Karen,
    
    You might want to look into Giant bicycles. From your description, it 
    sounds like you don't need a racing ATB with 21 speeds and extremely
    expensive componentry. Giant makes some excellent bikes in the 
    under $ 500.00 range. Many bike shops carry Giant bikes. Call around.
    
    I recently bought a Giant Sedona, 18 speeds, very high quality frame
    and nice components for under 400.00. I've beaten this bike into 
    submission in the few months that I've owned it. I've gone over large
    rocks, through various forests, mud, knee-deep grass, small streams, 
    etc, and it keeps working and asking for more. Like you, I did not 
    want to spend 600 bucks for a bike but I also wanted quality and 
    durability. Well, the Giant fits the mold nicely.
    
    There's my two cents. Good luck in your search.
    
    Rob 

    re: .1
    
    Actually, I'm expecting to spend $500+.  I'm very fussy about
    componants and get really fed up with mediocre ones.  I've heard
    that "the line" is at $500 -- whatever that means.  :-)  But am
    wondering whether the $600 or $700 bikes are really much better.
    In other words, once you cross that line, are the differences
    great or small?
    
    The only ATB I've ridden is a Cannondale which cost about $350.
    By brother claims that it's got the frame of a $500 bike and the
    componants of a $350 bike.  I wasn't impressed at all with the
    componants and want to make sure I'll be happy with mine.
    
    The 3 bikes I'm looking at today are roughly $500, $600 and $700
    originally.  They go on sale today, probably for about 10% off.
    I'm mainly wondering whether there's much difference.  My problem
    is that I'll get a short test ride to try to differentiate, and 
    I'm convinced that I can't tell minor differences without riding
    it for awhile.  I don't want any important minor differences to
    bite me after buying the bike, so am trying to find out the important
    ones now.
    
    Basically I want a bike that will grow with me.  If I want to climb
    a mountain I want to be able to, so I do want 21 speeds.  I used
    most of the gears when riding with my brother, and enjoyed trying
    to jump over logs.  I tried a fairly large one and lost the battle,
    laughing all the way.  My arm is all scratched up and my brother was
    paranoid that it would ruin my ride, but I was laughing my head off!
    What fun!  I guess I have the potential to get crazy with this.
    
    Right now it looks like Specialized or Diamond Back.  I've heard 
    good things about Mongoose, but they're out of them in the $500+ 
    price range at Goodale's.  If I don't fall in love with one today
    I'll try Gamache's in Fitchburg: they're closed sunday and monday
    or I would have looked yesterday.
    
    Thanks again,
    Karen.

    A component difference that you might notice immediately is the 
    HyperGlide "transmission" that Shimano's come up with for its
    top-of-the-line components.  You can shift under power, which 
    is very convenient when you realize you've run out of steam on
    a steep hill.  Other than that, any set of components will perform
    adequately on a test ride, and you're not likely to be able to
    differentiate between them.
    
    Warning: remember that the joy of being a kid again can fade.
    I was also wowed by mountain bikes when I first rode them, but
    after a few hundred miles, I became frustrated with the low 
    speeds, the lack of power offroad to do things that would be
    routine on the highway, and the unnecessary risks I was subjecting
    myself to to fly down the trails.  My mountain bike was stolen
    soon after I bought it, and I haven't found any urge to replace
    it.
    
    Still, don't let me dissuade you!
    
    MATT

    
    IMHO.....your on the right track. Below $300-$500 will get you in
    the woods, but $500+ will start getting the better components.
    The Ascent-EX should be the bottom Diamond Back bike to look at.
    The Rockhopper should be the bottom Specialized that you should
    look at. 
    Others to consider include... the Giant Boulder or Yukon, and Fisher's
    (sp) bottom of the line bike. All of these are in the $500-$600
    range. Almost all of these bikes cut corners on one component or
    another. 
    
    Components to look for...
    Rims: Araya RM20's, Ritchey Vantage or Specialized GX26 rims are 
          the standard. They are lighter than most anything you'll find on a
          <$500 bike. 
    Hubs: The new DeoreII hubs would be ideal. I lot of bikes put
          run-of-the-mill Japanese or other hubs. I good quality Specialized
          or Deore hub would be fine. Hopefully, they'll be quick release
          hubs.
    Tires: Make the dealer put on a real off road tire. Those hybrid
           road/dirt tires aren't good for the road or the dirt. 
           (Thats why you always see a pile of 'em for $5 as you walk
            in the store )Typically ,you'll wants some Specialized 
            Ground Controls or Richey Force or even the Farmer Johns.
    
    Crankset: Just about everything these days comes with the Shimano
              Biopace stuff.
    Pedals:   Try to get something made out of METAL. Seriously, a lot
              of bikes come with plastic pedals.
               
    Brakeset: Deore. I just dont trust plastic brakes like Shimano Exage
              or some Diacomps. Get a front/rear cantilever. 
    
    Transmission: You have a choice of Suntour or Shimano. I personally
                  like Shimano( Deore XT, Deore). I've SEEN the
                  Mountain-LX, and it is probably sufficient, but steer
                  clear of the EXAGE stuff. 
    Saddle: Whatever is most comfortable. 
    Seatpost: try to get something 280-300mm. 
    Headset: A good quality Deore or Specialized Headset. 
    Look for a flat, narrow handle bar.(Richey Force or other bulge
    bar)
    You'll want braze-ons for TWO water bottles.
    The whole bike should be under 28.5lbs

    There have been some great responses here.  I just thought I would
    throw out the fact that GIANT is the brand name for the company which
    actually makes SPECIALIZED and other bikes.  So now you now you don't
    have to be frightened of an 'unknown' name like GIANT.

 >>>   Pedals:   Try to get something made out of METAL. Seriously, a lot
 >>>             of bikes come with plastic pedals.
    

I kind of enjoy my LIGHTWEIGHT plastic pedals, and when I finally trash
them by running them into enough rocks, then I'll replace them.  My no-name
plastic pedals have taken some real abuse - and ATB's, like all bikes, can
be upgraded pretty cheaply.  So, I'll get Diore next time.

Also, my very mild (1.5") tires seem to have excellent traction in all but
8" bog muck, where the tread clogs, and they spin out.  I haven't found a need
for gonzo tires, and plan to get a combo tire when these wear out.  They are
quiet on the road, too.

And though the purists will once again cringe, my $410 Panasonic goes through
anything anyone would ever put an ATB through, and the Suntour XCE4500 
derailleur works well when packed with mud and grass. (Suntour stuff?, are you 
cringing yet??)

So, different things appeal to all, and by finding a shop that rents ATB's,
you can find what you like and don't like.

Hope I didn't start a fight....;-).

Steve

    Thanks for all the replies...
    
    I went out and bought the Diamond Back Ascent EX.  I figured it was
    a good bike for now.  They didn't have the Apex in my size, but
    the Ascent seems like a very good bike.  It's got Farmer John's 
    Cousins for tires, hyperglide shifting, biopace, etc.  I'm VERY 
    pleased with the quality of the componants so far, after 2 rides 
    (not counting the test rides).  If I stay really into it, I'll 
    consider upgrading a bit in a couple of years.  It's very responsive 
    and a joy to ride, both on and off road -- unfortunately my tush 
    isn't used to all the pounding.  Presumably I'll get used to it as 
    I get in better shape for this -- I just hope it happens soon!  :-)
    
    What are your opinions about carrying a tire pump?  I didn't get one
    because they didn't have the right size.  Since then two people have
    told me they never carry a pump on their mountain bike because 
    they're unlikely to have a flat, and they're more concerned that the
    pump would fall off and get tangled in something.  Makes sense to me,
    but am I missing some crucial argument one way or the other?  Maybe
    I should just carry a C02 cartridge or two?
    
    Karen.

My opinions:

Pedals - I would go with metal for a second reason.  If you do a lot of riding
         on the road then you can use cleats on most metal pedals.  When winter
         comes I switch to the mountain bike for commuting and since it is all
         on the road it's more efficient to use the old cleats.  I'm not
         usually a pack rat but when I got the LOOK pedals for the road bike I
         got new shoes but just couldn't bear to throw out the old Vittorias.

Tires - It's very hard to believe that you don't feel much of a difference 
        between 1.5" combo tires and 2" off-road tires.  I currently use
        2" (or 1.95") Specialized Ground Controls and they are a VAST
        improvement over the 1.5 Hardpacks that came on the bike.

Girps - This is not something to make or break a bike sale but I would suggest
        getting some long, rubber grips, not the foam ones.  They cost only
        about $5.

    re: .8
    
    The pedals are metal, I've got Farmer John's Cousins (if I do a lot
    of rough riding I'll buy Farmer John's for the rear) and the grips
    are the Diamond Back rubber grips which are very nice.  I had them
    put toe clips on and I'll go with that for now. 
    
    Karen.

    
    Good Buy...... I think that the Ascent EX is one of the best bikes
    you could get (new) at the $500 and below range. It's got the
    Mountain-lx components, hyperglide stuff, (I believe) Araya rm20
    rims with quick release shimano hubs, front/rear cantilevers and
    (i believe) a gel saddle. 
    
    As for a pump.... it's your own call.  I've personally only had
    one flat, ever. I've personally only seen three flats, ever (mountain
    bikes). Thats three flats in 700+ rides.
    With proper tire inflation, a flat virtually never happens.
    I still carry a pump behind the seat tube and a spare tire tube,
    though. In addition, I carry a small adjustable wrench, small pair
    of pliers, small screwdriver,multi-hex wrench thingy, and a chain
    breaker. I've used all of them at one time or another. 
    
                              

    I got a Diamondback Ascent EX for my son, and I think that it is
    as good, or better than my Mongoose IBOC.  The Mt. LX is as good
    as the Deore, and the paint on the Ascent is real nice!
    
    I found the Ascent more stable at higher speed than my IBOC, but
    I like the IBOC more in the slow to mid range. Just "think" and
    it responds.
    
    One more advantage to the Ascent over the IBOC is that you can mount
    a rack on the back very easily (the IBOC has a wishbone seatstay
    design).
    
    ENJOY!!
    
    John
    
    Who_just_got_back_from_a_2_week_vacation_in_the_Mts._of_the_U.P.
    (Michigan)

    Definitely get a pump or CO2 cartridges.  Even the best riders with
    properly inflated tires get pinch flats or sometimes punctures.
    Something else that sometimes happens is the valve stem gets damaged.
    I personally have bent one so bad that it would not hold air. I
    have also heard of someone else ripping the stem right off with a fallen
    branch.  
      AT THE VERY LEAST your tool kit should contain a pump and spare
    tube.  
    
    						Norm            	

    If you are worried about losing the pump off the bike, try holding
    it on with a velcro strap.  
      At the beginning of this year I bought a Vetta mini pump and a
    velcro strap.  The pump works, is small and light and I have not
    lost it yet.
    
    						Norm

    
>      At the beginning of this year I bought a Vetta mini pump and a
>    velcro strap.  The pump works, is small and light and I have not
>    lost it yet.
 
    	Another advantage of the mini pump over CO2 is the cost.  You
    can get a Vetta Mini from Nashbar for under $10 and you never have
    to replace it after you use it once like you do with the cartridges.
    No danger of frost bite either :^)  I've found it to be just as good 
    as a large pump, it just takes twice as long to inflate a tire due to 
    it's compact size.  
    						_Jerry