Conference noted::bicycle

    I made a mistake it should be under $2500
    
    mike
    

    If you already love your Trek, and you've sunk cash into the Dura Ace
    8-speed drivetrain, I don't know what you have to gain.  If you're
    racing hard, your main interest should be in equipment that doesn't
    break.  A lighter axle isn't going to make you go any faster, but it
    can make you more susceptible to a DNF.  There's also a good chance
    that you're going to crash the living daylights out of your race bike
    one day, so it doesn't make sense to throw $2500 into it.  Let a
    sponsor do that! 
    
    I'm suspicious about what happened to your friend's tire.  If it came
    off the rim, then it wasn't glued on right.  In fact, the rollout from
    being unglued probably caused the blowout!  I've had blowouts on
    corners that destroyed the entire sidewall of the tire, without it
    budging from the rim. 
    
    Also, before you invest, look at your inventory.  If you're serious
    about racing, you need at least three sets of wheels: racing, training,
    and TT.  You should have a range of chainring sizes, two freewheel
    bodies, and a handful of cogs to match your gearing to the course.
    Then maybe another frame the quality of your Trek -- used.  Throw
    in another set of bars, a bunch of tires, a workstand.... That's
    a little over $1000 total.  At this point, you're more race-ready
    than you would be buying a new bike.
    
    But if you want a new bike, you want a new bike.  Walk into a bike
    shop, state your needs, and tell them you have up to $2500 to spend.
    I'm sure you'll be treated like royalty.
    
    MATT

    Matt's right on (for my money). You sound like you're a pretty
    experienced and knowledgeable guy (been 'round the track a few
    times - so to speak). The questions you're asking are going to
    provoke a myriad of opinions (in this case, opinions will become
    synonmous to arguments). All of which will be based on extremely
    subjective framework. Particularly unavoidable when we begin to
    enter the stratosphere of cycling components.
    
    The biggie is talking to shops and, using what you know/have ex-
    perienced, and do what feels right. You'll almost never go wrong
    when entering the "upper end" equipment bracket.

>  I would like some input about the wheels, how many spokes
>  would fit my needs. I am 6ft 1inch weight 190lbs.

    Don't bother going to more than 36.

    I weigh at least 50 pounds more than you plus what I happen to
    be carrying in my panniers (which is harder on tires because
    it's unsprung).  My 36 spoke wheels have required very little
    truing.  Just make sure that the spokes are tight enough if you
    build your own.

    If your asking about getting fewer spokes.... I don't know.

    -Jeff

I agree with Matt, your friends tubular wasn't glued on properly. I had the
lovely task of removing a flat tube this morning ( broke the collar around the
valve while pumping the thing up before my ride to work. Rush, Rush, Rats)
I thought getting the tube ON the rim was hard. I was ready to chew the thing 
off the rim with my teeth. I guess I did a good job gluing it on.

Tom_Who_loves_tubulars_BUT_will_start_riding_to_work_on_clinchers ;-)

    As far as wheels go. Most of the bigger riders that race on the
    same team as I do prefer 36 spoke Mavic GP4 wheels. They have proved
    to be a very strong wheel. They also go with sew-ups because they
    are lighter and we all know lighter means quicker acceleration.
    As long as they're glued on the right way you should have no worries
    about rolling a tire in a turn. Then there is always the price of
    sew-ups vs. clinchers.

    	I realize I'm off topic here, but...
    
    	But, but
    
    	69 MILES AN HOUR?
    
    	I seriously doubt it dude.
    
    	Show me the hill you did that speed on dude...
    
    	Just a friendly note to say, "Bulldinky"
    
    	No offense dude...
    
    						Face.

    Yeah, I think 69 mph is a "computer error"  Supposedly Lemond
    et Hineault did 70 mph in some stage of The Tour (there is only one you
    know) but they were slinging off each others slip streams coming down
    some major mountain.
    
    Best I've ever done on a single was 51.3.  I had to brake for some
    4 wheeler that had just passed me "because I was going to slow"
    then he looked at his speedometer and hit the brakes.
    
    Ok, nows the time for the "high speed" tall tales that ignore the
    base notes subject.
    
    I think 36 spokes will do you just fine but be sure to glue those
    suckers on.  And screw the valves tight they are rumored to open
    by themselves around 150 mph.
    
    ed

    I'm starting a special "High Speed Tall Tales"  note to handle the
    tangent.  Please stick any high speed pearls of wisdom there...

    re: 0
    
    I agree with .1 but if you have your heart set on a new bike you
    could get yourself a custom frame and move you Dura-ace group to
    the new bike, then put an ultegra or campy athena on the trek for
    a second bike.
    
    Paul

For someone your size, I'd be pretty leary about going too light on 
equipment.  The pros are usually riding rims that are close to 400gm 
in the Tour, except for TTs.  Axles (crank, wheel, and pedal) are all
steel, not titanium.  Only a few teams ride frames that aren't steel,
in spite of advances in frame technology.  I wouldn't go any lower than
32 spokes, except for TT wheels.

I've heard some great stories about sewup blowouts -- and usually the teller
was on a $15 tire.  Bite the bullet and be ready to pay + or - $40 for 
each top quality tire.  Then use lots of glue, like close to a whole
tube for each tire, two layers on both the rim and the tire.  Finally
don't ride all the time on 120psi.  95 to 105psi (except for TTs), and 
your tires last longer, are better able to absorb a little road
shock, and give your wheel a bit better grip.  Top quality sewups are still 
more reliable than the lightest (19-20mm) clinchers.  Use a heavier (23-25mm) 
set of clincher tired wheels for training.

The best place to conserve weight is on yourself, a good example being
Eric Heiden.  When he switched from skating to cycling after the 1980
Olympics, he was a good crit rider immediately, but he wasn't the greatest
in the hills.  Eventually he went from 180 to 175, a loss of five pounds
and some redistribution of what was still there. He would have
finished the Tour on his last try if he hadn't crashed in one of the later
stages -- quite an accomplishment for someone who supposedly didn't climb very 
well.  I belive he is 6' 1" also, so take a look at your food intake.  It's real
easy to say "When I bike, I can eat anything, and it won't show."  (I'm a 
third of the way through a box of the new Three Musketeers ice cream bars 
myself)  Most often the sentence should be, "When I bike, I won't eat anything 
that doesn't contribute to my performance."  Especially since your goal is 
Killington, give some serious thought to slimming down a little more (but not 
starving yourself).  You're probably large-framed, but so is Heiden.  Also, 
put your size to advantage if you haven't already -- use 175mm cranks, or at 
least 172.5s.

As for frames -- I've already implied that I favor steel, and I also favor 
dealing with locals.  That means buying a frame where it's relatively simple to
return it to the original builder for a repair or a new paint job.  
Sachs, Serotta, and Marinoni are the first "locals" who come to mind.
Ask your dealer what kind of support you can get from the builder if you
damage your frame.

Finally, if you were going anywhere close to that speed, I hope you were by 
yourself when you checked your speedo.  I won't vouch for 69mph, but on 
the descents from Brandon Gap and Sherburne Pass I've hit at list 50 by myself 
on training rides.  All you have to do is blink at that speed and you've gone 
ten feet without knowing exactly where you are.  Touch a wheel in front of you 
when you're going that fast, and the results will be every bit as serious as a 
high-speed blowout.  Descending in a race, it's wiser to concentrate on 
going faster than on how fast you are going.

Justin

    I'm curious about what prices are like in the U.S. these days.
    How much does a complete, custom (steel, SLX or equiv) bike
    with, say, Dura Ace 8-speed and good wheels/tires cost? $2000?
    
    MATT

All that time in Italy and he still wants Dura-Ace.  Good for you!

Of course you can always spend more but I think you can still do it for $2000
or so.

Did you all see the proto-type Shimano brake lever shifter that Hampsted had in
the Tour of Americas?  I saw it in the latest issue of Winning.  It sounds as
if you twist the brake lever one way to shift one cog larger and the opposite
to shift one cog smaller.  The advantage it that you can shift while standing.

< Note 1136.13 by VERVE::BUCHANAN "Bat" >

>to shift one cog smaller.  The advantage it that you can shift while standing.

This would imply that they're using SIS.  Can anyone confirm this?  I know 
they've got the stuff on the bikes, but I kinda figured they used friction 
mode, not indexing.  Wonder when one of them will try (and admit to using) 
Biopace.

Kevin

    Have the newer types of Columbus tubing made it across the ocean
    yet?  (I'm talking about TSX, MS, and MAX.)  If so, what kind of 
    premium do they command over SLX?
    
    Does the 8-speed Dura Ace freewheel use the same frewheel body as
    the 6/7 speed?  If not, are the new frewheels available in a
    traditional form, or only as "freehubs"?

    
    MATT

>>    Have the newer types of Columbus tubing made it across the ocean
>>    yet?  (I'm talking about TSX, MS, and MAX.)  If so, what kind of 
>>    premium do they command over SLX?
  
YA, Bicycle Alley is selling the BASSO Ascott MAX tubing with Shimano Dura Ace
8 speed for $2099. Frame set is $890, $150 over the SLX Loto frame.
 
>>    Does the 8-speed Dura Ace freewheel use the same frewheel body as
>>    the 6/7 speed?  If not, are the new frewheels available in a
>>    traditional form, or only as "freehubs"?

The 8 speed is a cassette type freewheel/hub with a wider spaced hub than the 
Ultra 7(to fit the extra gear).
    
    Tom

>>>    Does the 8-speed Dura Ace freewheel use the same frewheel body as
>>>    the 6/7 speed?  If not, are the new frewheels available in a
>>>    traditional form, or only as "freehubs"?
>
>The 8 speed is a cassette type freewheel/hub with a wider spaced hub than the 
>Ultra 7(to fit the extra gear).

    Well, fooey on them!  To upgrade would cost a fortune, for a relatively
    frivolous feature.
    
    MATT