Conference noted::bicycle

    
    IMHO...
    
    Scott DH bars are cheaper ($52) than Aeros ($75).  You need to be careful
    about stem selection though.  The stem size is normal (I think)
    but with all the curves in the bars, it's hard to get some stems
    on.  I had to get a Technomic drilled out to fit mine.  Brake placement
    can be a little tricky, but once you find the spot, they stay put.
    I find no problem with the "deep drops" on climbing (others complain)
    
    Aero 1's seem simpler on all the negative counts above.
    
    I think they both do about the same thing.  I hear Scott USA just
    got a patent on their bars, AND the aerodynamic position that their
    bars develop.  Don't know how this will affect the other brands.
    
    Sarks seem to bend me over too much.  The do not feel as comfortable
    since they force your forearm/handposition to be parelell to the
    road.  My bars are angled upwards.
    
    Don't have any experience with other clip-ons.
    
    If you're thinking about occaisional use, then I'd consider the
    clip-ons.  Changing stems, brakes, computers, and retaping once
    a week or so is a pain.  It also takes a while to become proficient
    riding them, so with clip-ons, you can always fall back on the regular
    hand positions.
    
    I had to go to a higher and shorter reach stem.  A little shorter,
    and MUCH higher than my Fit Kit numbers. You may also find yourself
    moving your seat. 
    
    I think all these brands have terrible arm supports.  Still waiting
    for Spenco to come out with some replaceable armrests for my bars.
    
        JD

< Note 932.0 by MCIS2::DELORIEA >
                              -< TT Bars Survey >-

It depends on exactly what you want to accomplish.  I've got 7k miles on Scott 
DH bars and I love them.  I feel they work fine for all types of riding, 
except crits, and that's obvious.  I'd even use them in road races if I'd be 
allowed, as they give me all the positions I need as well as good access to 
the brakes.  Great climbing positions, esp if you use the bridge piece that's 
kinda hard to find.

If I was setting up a purely TT or triathlon bike, I'd try the Scott 100k
bars.  These offer no other position other than the aero (or sitting up, but 
that doesn't really matter).  Probably not very good for climbing, either.

If you want a bar that can be removed easily, I'd try the Scott clip-ons, tho 
they are somewhat heavy.  I like the attachment better than the Sark bars, but 
the Sarks seem to be very popular (Mark Reid can comment on them, I believe).

I haven't tried many of the others (there's lots of them). The Profile for 
Speed bars (large triangular bars) strike me as being too big and unwieldly 
for my taste.  And the Sark bars too small.  And the Scott bars are 'just 
right' (thank you Goldilocks)  But overall, I still think the Scott DH's are 
the best general purpose bar.  They give a multitude of aero and regular
positions (important on long rides), plus good climbing positions (despite
popular opinion to the contrary).

Stems also vary for your purpose.  Generally, you'll need a taller and/or 
shorter stem than a regular road stem, due to the different position.  I've 
done some glide tests that showed that I could raise the stem up higher for a 
more comfortable position without sacificing my aero profile.  My stem is 
almost as high as the top of my seat.  If you're already using a short stem, 
you may have problems, but there are new stems out on the market that are both 
short and tall.  I've seen ATB stems used to get the added height, but until 
recently, they were always too long for me.

Kevin

   I purchased a set of Scott Clip-Ons this past summer and
used them occasionally on long rides to essentially provide
additional hand and body positions.  I found them difficult
to get accustomed to since I couldn't get into a comfortable
position with my elbows down on the handlebars without having
to raise the stem above the safety line.  Needless to say I am
no longer using them since in the low bar position I don't
think I get anything out of them that I don't get from using
the standard drops on my regular bars.

       I picked them us for $50 last summer, used them several
times and will now sell them for $40 complete with balck
foam grab-on grips to the first caller.  They are virtually
like new and could probably be sent thru in plant mail since
they are so light (contrary to Kevins note, I hardly noticed
the weight, can't weigh more than my Bell Ultralight helmet).
Send mail if your interested.  BTW I'm in MKO if you would
like to check them out.
       					Jerry

	I got some plans mail order for some homemade clip-on aero
	bars that are made out ofvarious bits and pieces of PVC.
	They are supposed to cost less than $10 to make.  There's
	probably a good chance I'll get some real bars before I ever
	get around to putting these together so I can't say how well
	they work.  They look like they'd give you the same basic
	position as Sark but they're maybe not quite as rugged (no
	water bottle cage built in either).

	If anyone wants a copy of the plans, send me mail.  If you
	try them out, let us know how they work.

	chris

 Try note 204 in GLIVET::TRIATHAWANKER   .... ops I mean GLIVET::TRIATHLON.
Its got moocho info on the Scot type bars. 
 If you are a true blue racing bikie; that is you: dream about crits,
get weak when thinking about road races and water at the mouth over CAMPY
then don't tell anyone you've been in GLIVET::TRIATHLON.

I hide my terminal when I read it.


Just kiddin tri guys (can you take it)
 Wayne v

        Who is this Wayne guy anyway?  A Brit ( ie. reference to Wanker),
        or just one of the Icecream eating poofters who thinks the most
        radical thing that ever happened to him was the time the dog 
        chased him down the road, so he wrote about it in the Bicycling
        notes file???????

        ( Just kidding you Icecream Century types)

        Jon ( A british born contributor to Triathawanker)

    I'd suggest trying out different bars if you really want to be
    sure what's best for you.
    
    Frank's Spoke 'N Wheel rents Sark bars (add-ons, stem attatchment)
    for $5. (508) 872-8590 on Rt 9 in Framingham,MA.
    
    I used pseudo Sark bars all last season (I bought the aluminum tubing
    for $5, and had friends bend & aluminum weld them into a Sark Bar
    shape). I found them stiff and comfortable for ME. They definitely
    put you in a low position (I'll bet I was more aero than anyone
    on Scott or Aero 1 bars - my back completely flat, parallel to ground.)
    
    I too am trying to compare aero bars, and lately I have been using
    Scott DH bars. I don't like them yet, but I'm still working on it.
    I think I have the bars too low, probably from my past experience
    with Sark Bars. They also flex a lot (1-2 inches up) when you climb
    on the ends, even with the bar bridge I have on (I was used to
    virtually no flex with the Sarks).
    
    Soon I'll be trying out the Scott 100k bars. Frank will be getting
    some in in a couple weeks. I haven't given up on the DH bars!
    
    Mark
    

I was in Bicycle Alley this past weekend and spotted the new Scott LeMond bars.
Yep thats what they're called. They are Scott clip-ons with the arm rest. The
rest is tilted forward and its center line is out side the center line of the
bars. This, I was told, was in order to keep breathing from being restricted.
I forgot to ask the price.
 

      ^
    /   \
    |   |
    |   | 
  ( |) (| )   

Tom

           <<< Note 932.8 by MCIS2::DELORIEA "Work starts Jan 8th" >>>
                                -< LeMond Bars >-


      ^
    /   \
    |   |
    |   | 
  ( |) (| )   

I've done the same thing with old Scott clip-ons and the Profile-for-Speed 
clamp-on pads.  Any of the add-on pads should work well.  Having the pads 
seperate from the bar allows you to set the angle of each to your own taste.  
And to think that I was trying to sell 2 sets of those bars!

Kevin

    Kevin, as you've obviously moved onto things that you like better,
    could you tell us what?  After all, you have lots more experience
    than Greg Lemond with aero bars.
    
    MATT

       <<< Note 932.10 by CESARE::JOHNSON "Matt Johnson, DTN 871-7473" >>>
                    -< What's the Expert's Recommendation? >-

>    Kevin, as you've obviously moved onto things that you like better,
>    could you tell us what?  After all, you have lots more experience
>    than Greg Lemond with aero bars.
    
I'm flattered!  Mentioning me and Lemond in the same sentence has to be the 
nicest thing anyone has EVER said about me!  Oh!  Be still my heart!

Anyway, I'm really pretty happy with the setup I described in .9.  Being able 
to vary the angles of all parts really allows you to fine tune your position.  
I like the Profile-for-Speed clamp-on bar with its adjustable length, which 
kinda makes up for a stem that's not the right length, but the armrests are 
part of the bar, which locks in the angle.  So for a clamp-on style setup, I 
prefer the setup described in .9.

For a full-blown, jet fighter pilot setup, (my ultra-marathon, TT bike) I use 
the good ole Scott DH, with Flight Controls (shift levers out on the end of 
the Scott's) with P-for-Speed armrests and a bottle bracket on the bar with a 
hose in the bottle.  With this setup I only have to move to get food or my 
other bottle, or to climb or rest my buns.  The armrests are essential... 
rubber pads transmit too much shock when you're down on the bars all the time.
The Flight Controls really make it feel like I'm flying a fighter plane or 
driving a race car.  You can shift whenever you want, as often as you want, so 
there's no need to make do with the wrong gear, unless you've run out of them!
Riding a bike with this setup is an awesome experience, especially when you 
get confident enough to go screaming thru turns full out on the bars, shifting 
as just the right moment.  Its a blast!  (The Sudbury TT is a blast on this 
setup... esp the last smooth stretch on Dutton road.)

The latest gadget that would add to the above experience is the 
remote-control, fore-aft adjustable seat post.  Move it forward when you're 
out on the bars to open up the angle between your chest and legs (more 
power!).  Move it back when you want or need a normal riding position (when 
climbing, for example).  The only problem with this that I can see is its 
price: $300 for a limited production piece.  Hopefully the price will come 
down soon so I can try one...

Kevin

    Almost, Kev, but it wasn't "the same sentence."  Same paragraph,
    though.
    
    ed

                <<< Note 932.12 by NOVA::FISHER "Pat Pending" >>>
                            -< still a grammarian >-

>    Almost, Kev, but it wasn't "the same sentence."  Same paragraph,
>    though.

Not quite, Ed.

>    Kevin, as you've obviously moved onto things that you like better,
>    could you tell us what?  After all, you have lots more experience
>    than Greg Lemond with aero bars.

"you" here refers to "Kevin", and thus it is the same sentence.  Not that it 
matters.    

Kevin

    Ok, so you got a pronoun ref.  I suppose it's as good.
    
    ed

    Has anyone out there tried Mavic's clip ons?  It would appear that they
    have a lot more flexible adjustment possibilities than the competitors.
    (Of course, they DO cost about twice as much).  My main interest is to
    obtain an extra position to give my wrists a rest on long (for me)
    rides, and thus am not concerned by any racing implications (yet!). 
    

     I know two people who have them. They like them, but as you've stated,
    they're expensive. I own Profile II's (on my Fuji) and Scott's on my
    C-Dale. The Mavics are much prettier, but then they should be. For
    what you're looking for (even if you were considering a racing appli-
    cation) I'd try the Scott's. They're cheaper than the Profiles and I
    like them better. They come in 4 sizes.
    
     Chip

    I've looked at clip-on bars several times, and someday soon I might buy
    a pair.  I have one major requirement, however: the bars must be stiff
    and strong.  I want to be able to torque them hard if I need to.
    So far, I've found some extendable bars to be flimsy, and others
    to actually rotate up on the handlebars when I'm down in the 
    riding position and heave.  That's not my idea of aero fun!
    
    MATT

	RE: .17

	Try SARK bars or TRIMBLE Rocket Bars. The Sark bars mount on the stem
	with a C-clamp and are light and stiff. Since they mount on the stem
	they can't rotate around the handle bars or cause the handel bars to
	rotate in the stem. I haven't tried the Rocket bars but I seem to 
	remember they are a similar system.

	Paul

re: .17

May I suggest another solution?  Tighten them up!  All you need is an allen
wrench and some elbow grease.

     I agree with Bat. If they're moving on you, stop doing chin-ups
    on  them :-)...
    
      Chip

I bought a set of Scott Lemond clip-ons this past weekend and found them to be
the "New and Improved" LEMOND II's. They are lighter and better than the
original Lemond clip-ons, so they say. I brought them home and started putting
them together. Here is a few of the changes I noticed.

First, the bar section is TWO piece, not the one piece bar the was shaped like
a U. The ends are held together by the Scott DH bar connector.

		^ -DH connector
	       / \
	       | |
           |----#----|
                
Second, the clamps that clamp onto the handle bar are now a one bolt design.

Third, the arm rest and arm rest post are now a one piece molded plastic.

I thought this was great that I was buying the new ligher version and didn't
have an old heavy one that now was obsolete hanging around. Or worse, getting
the old version and finding out a week later that there was a better version
out. Well there is only one problem, the clamps that held the arm rest onto the 
bars didn't work. I tightened them down all the way and they were still loose.
Not only that but the height of the arm rest is lower that the Lemond 1's. I
ended up bringing them back and getting my money back. Has anyone else bought
the LEMOND II's?  Have you had any problem with the arm rest assembly???

Tom