Conference noted::bicycle

    	Time to wake up everyone.
    
    	A couple of us went to Lincoln the other night to here Ben
    	Serotta. He was a little late, and mentioned some of the 
    	nice back roads in Massachusetts.
    
    	He brought a couple frames with him and his "size cycle,"
    	which is a mag trainer with an adjustable bike on top.
    	It looked very interesting, and I agreed with Ben that
    	such a thing would be better for sizing a rider than
    	fit kit of something like that.
    
    	Frames were really beautiful. Wished I was a flea-weight
    	and could afford one of the frames.
    
    	Scott

>     	Frames were really beautiful. Wished I was a flea-weight
>    	and could afford one of the frames.

    I can understand the second concern, but why the first?  Did Ben
    mention anything about his frames and larger people?  
    
    My brother's 6'4" 205, and rides a Serrotta with SPX/SLX and loves
    it.

    RE: 912.2
    
    JD,
    
    But I'm 6'6'' and 255, so I'm a little tentative on something
    light.
    
    I know, I could stop "eating like a pig" (love that commercial)
    and get back down to 225.
    
    Scott (With Thanksgiving in two day, I won't start this week)

    I also went to Ben's talk.  He seems like a reasonable sort
    and does a great sales pitch.  I decided that I *have* to
    have a Serotta Colorado frame.  By the time my friends and
    I had sat down to eat afterwards I had at least stopped
    frothing at the mouth.  There is also a slight money issue
    (I think he said the Colorado bases at $1250), especially
    since I dropped some decent money on a Mooney in February.
    But, its a pretty frame and his justification of the stretched
    tubing sold me.
    
    

    	JD,
    
    	I forgot to answer your question. He never really said
    	anything about large people, but I'm assuming that if
    	you got the green, he can do anything you want or need.
    
    	It's nice to dream, but reality tells me that, for the
    	type riding I do, a Serotta frame is out of the question.
    
    	Scott

< Note 912.4 by DEBIT::HOLDEN >
                -< Now look what happened, I NEED a new frame >-

Hey, Russ, its good to see you in the notes file again.  I was wondering what 
happened to you.  How's the knees?

Kevin

    Um, did I hear somebody say "stretched" tubing?  What's this all
    about?
    
    MATT

>    Um, did I hear somebody say "stretched" tubing?  What's this all
>    about?

	Part of the design of the Colorado (and some of the professional
	race frames) calls for seat tube and down tube to flare at the
	bottom bracket.  The tubing is the same weight as a regular double-
	butted tube but the extra tube wall thickness is moved to the
	outside where it will do the most good in resisting bottom
	bracket flex.  The tubing was formerly made exclusively for 
	Serotta Cycles by True-Temper but is now made by Columbus.

    I think Columbus is marketing this stuff under the brand name MAX
    in Italy.  You know, you don't really have to spend over $1200 for
    a frame with this technology.  (There's a guy several blocks away
    who builds them....)
    
    MATT

    If I remember correctly the flaring on Serrota's Colorado is only
    on the seat and down tube at the bottom bracket. The MAX tube-set
    from Colombus is flared at both ends of the top, down, and seat
    tube. By flaring the tubes only at the bottom bracket you got the
    stiffness at the bottom bracket while maintaining a comfortable
    ride while the MAX tube-set tends to be harsh.

    Paul

	I assume this flared tubing must require custom (at least
	different) lugs and BB shell since if the flaring to the
	outside is going to do any good, the tube will end up with
	a larger diameter.

	Is this true?

	chris

Re: .11

> I assume this flared tubing must require custom (at least different)
> lugs and BB shell since if the flaring to the outside is going to do
> any good, the tube will end up with a larger diameter. 

More likely, bikes using this tubing are built using either TIG welding 
or lugless fillet brazing techniques.  Either is adequately strong, 
although welding leaves a fairly ugly joint.  Most BMX bikes are welded.
The Burley tandem is welded.  Cannondale mountain bike frames (aluminum)
are welded, and then the joints are faired using epoxy to make them
smooth. 

- Dick

    "The Colorado's down and seat Tubes grow in diameter from a standard
    1 1/8" to a thinner-walled 1 3/8" where they're joined to an internally
    lugged BB shell by Serotta's flawless fillet brazing.  This reduces
    twisting and lateral flexing.  No other builder offers a similar
    design..."   Bicycling June '87 

    The Colorado's more than a bike with fancy tubing.  It runs for
    about $3K with C-Record.  
    
    JD

Serotta has built the bikes for the 7-Elevens for the past few years.  Despite
having Huffy or Murry painted on they were really Serotta Colorados.  However I 
just read that the Slurpees will be riding Eddy Merckx next year.  Too bad, it
was nice to see the American team riding American made bikes, even used
American made tubes.  Don't know if they are going to stay with Dura-Ace.  I
saw the latest issue of Bicycling in the supermarket with Andy on the cover and
noticed he was on a Merckx and thought that was strange.  Now I know why.

    re .14:
    1) Yes they were made by Serotta but I don't believe they were
    Colorados.  I've seen them up close and they don't have the external
    butting common to the Colorado.
    
    2) According to the Merckx rep. at the Atlantic City Trade Show
    a month or so ago, the bike Andy was riding on the cover of that
    mag. is exactly the one they are going to ride; same colors, dura-ace,
    etc.
    
    It will be interesting to see what happens with Huffy.  They had
    stopped sponsoring 7-Eleven and the U.S. National Team and had
    intentions of sponsoring the new Coors Light Team, but according
    to the recent Velo-News, Lemond insisted that the team ride Team
    Lemond bikes.
    
    

> Serotta has built the bikes for the 7-Elevens for the past few years.  Despite
> having Huffy or Murry painted on they were really Serotta [cycles].  However 
> I just read that the Slurpees will be riding Eddy Merckx next year.  

	Serotta Cycles was one of the few suppliers to the 7-Eleven team
	that was paid.  Other suppliers would either give their products
	for free or actually PAY to have the privilege of supplying products.

	Unfortunately the 7-Eleven team chose to switch to Eddy Merckx cycles 
	because Eddy Merckx was able to pay for the privilege.  Serotta 
	Cycles is small enough that they cannot afford to give away large 
	numbers of bicycles, let alone pay for the privilege of giving 
	away bicycles.

    Over the Christmas holiday I was in the Saratoga area, and stopped
    by Serotta to see the bikes being built (they like people coming
    by).
    
    I asked about the 7-Eleven issue, and their reply was the same as
    in -.1.  They added that the riders weren't all that happy about
    the switch to Merckx.  They also mentioned the possibility of getting
    involved with other teams.