Conference noted::bicycle

    The first thing to note is that you can RACE your old bike. In fact,
    people have flat-out told me it's crazy to take a nice, brand new race
    bike to anything like the BRC criteriums, because you could trash it in
    no time.  Sure, there's a little performance edge (mainly
    wheels/tires), but nothing like the edge you get by being in shape and
    prepared. 
    
    The second thing I'd say is to borrow a race bike and ride for an hour,
    so you know what you're getting into.  Comfort may be an issue at first
    -- so is the "twitchiness" -- but you get used to both.  It took me
    months before I felt confident taking my hand away from the handlebar
    to shift my race bike on bumpy downhills, but now it feels as stable as
    an old Schwinn. 
    
    Finally, you may be disappointed if you think that the race bike will
    speed you up a bunch.  The differences are due mainly to the STYLE of
    riding, not absolute performance.  The frames are stiff so they feel
    better in the sprints, not because they actually go that much faster.
    The tighter angles make a bike that is more willing to turn, not one
    that accelerates in the corners.  The lighter weight feels nice in the
    hills, but it's meaningless elsewhere (for example, in a criterium). 
    
    I'm still trying to match the fastest TT time I did on my old Fuji
    S-10S. (I also overhauled an old Raleigh Super Course this weekend --
    what a great bike!  Don't underestimate what you have.) 
    
    MATT

    I went out and test rode a few entry-level racers today. So, I have
    it somewhat narrowed down and now need any advice about which would be
    a better purchase. Are there other better choices in the 450 to
    $550 range to consider? (Miyata 712, Specialized Cirrus, Bianchi
    Campione Italia? Cilo?
    
    I tested the '87 Trek 560 (Reynolds 531 Cr-Moly frame) at $450 assembled
    and the Bike Nashbar Aluminum Road 7000 entry-level racer which has
    the Suntour Cyclone 7000 (I believe). 
    
    These are both 23.5 lbs., give or take, but for the life of me I
    can't tell which would be a better bike for the type of riding that
    I mentioned. I'm looking for overall comfort from the jarring road
    shock, but still with a stiff frame.  
    
    As far as fit goes, I want the 73 degree geometry with a 20-20.5 inch
    or 50-51 cm frame.  I just found this fact out today that my current
    bike is too small and so were all the others I was advised to look at 
    from a prior Fit-kit. I guess this is a general guide and not to
    be taken to heart.
    
    Again, I'm talking about racing 1 to 3 times per season and doing long, 
    (eventually 2 to 4 hour) & fast (18 - 20 mph) racing. I might only hit 
    the BRC once. The rest of the time, I just like to zip around and
    measure my own performance in more sane conditions. 
    
    My Raleigh Super Gran Prix has never been a slick shifter and it's
    frame flexing and added weight takes it's toll when I do more than
    1 hour (quite often). If it sounds like I've decided that a new
    bike is definite, you're right. I will continue to ride my Raleigh,
    but I'll use it for commuting and when I want to do more heavy-duty
    riding. I intend to learn some of the more difficult repairs on
    this bike.
    
    I tried racing on the Raleigh and have never been satisfied with
    missing shifts repeatedly. I have had NO difficulty on any of my 
    friends 12 speeds or any of the new SIS/Friction system shifters.
    
    Is my thinking off at all here?
    
    				Thanks,
    				Russ
    

    
    
    	For the type of riding or racing that you will be doing anyone
    of the bikes mentioned would do the job, don't second guess yourself
    to death!!!  Every bike has a different feel, take each bike for
    a test ride and see which one simply feels best. I wouldn't worry
    about spending an extra $50 if the bike felt right and don't get
    hung up on a brand name, get the one that    FITS   
    
    Joe

    For what you've described, I don't think you'll want the Cannondale.
    It's as stiff as any bike out there, but it also wears you down
    because of the road shock it delivers.  At least that's what my
    friend who owns one says.  I have a Specialized Allez and absolutely
    love it!  The Sirrus gets glowing reviews from everything I've read,
    and seems to be a good bike for the money.  The Sirrus is stiff
    too, and you'll also get a good deal of road shock.  The Trek seems
    to be a great deal.  I wanted a Trek when I was looking but they
    were too expensive.  My guess is that the Trek and Bianchi will have
    the most forgiving ride.  I believe they are more along the lines
    of a road bike, not a criterium bike.
    
    I have Shimano 600 SIS and have had virtually no problems.  I'm
    hooked on SIS and doubt I'll ever want to go back to friction. 
    You never have to worry about overshifting or skipping gears.  Just
    reach down and "click," your in a new gear.  I would guess that
    Suntour's stuff works just as well.
    
    The one thing people always mention when buying a new bike is to
    make sure you get a proper fit.  The Fit Kit is a good idea.  The
    frame fit is most important, you can always change stem lengths,
    seat height, etc. later.
    
    For your type of riding it sounds like a road racing bike is a good
    choice.  
    
    Dave

�    For what you've described, I don't think you'll want the Cannondale.
�    It's as stiff as any bike out there, but it also wears you down
�    because of the road shock it delivers.

    Someone I met has the Cannondale and he recommends putting the Vitus
    front fork on in place of the one that comes with the bike.  He claimed
    it makes it into a road bike "second to none", comfortable but stiff, with
    excellent road handling.  The guy had owned some exotic stuff in his day,
    mentioning the Graftek (sp?) and a few other funny framed bikes, so his
    choice of that combination is of interest.

    I don't own one and am not in the market, but it makes some sense.

    - Jim

    Does an aluminum-framed (Shimano Cyclone 7000 group) Nashbar racer
    offer anything more for nearly the same money than the Trek 560
    with a Cr-Moly frame? I was told by a salesperson at Nashbar that
    the aluminum-framed bike (Cr-Moly fork) will out perform any comparably 
    equipped Cr-Moly 'cause of it's lighter frame. 
    
    Any comments appreciated.
                         
    					Russ
    				
    

    Though this is just my opinion, if I were you, I would be hesitant
    of using the index shifting.  I had the Suntour system put on my
    new TREK.  In the 6 weeks that I have had the bike, I have been
    absolutely miserable with the shifting.  The bike has been worked
    on by at least 6 different people (all past or present bike mechanics)
    at least a dozen times, and nobody can get my index shifting to
    work properly.  I am seriosly considering switching to a friction
    system.
    
    I have seen index systems work beautifully, yet I have seen just
    as many systems that have problems.  I wouldn't want to take the
    chance while racing.

    These bikes I'm looking at ALL have the ability, with a switch at 
    the shifter, to switch to the friction shifting. My info is if the 
    deraileur hanger and all the components are lined up in parallel, 
    the only adjustment will be one or two times for the cable stretch. 
    
    I believe this to be correct?
    
    				Russ

    I converted two bikes to Shimano SIS this year and in over 1000
    miles on one and several hundred on the other I have yet to make
    an adjustment and still haven't missed a shift yet this season.
    If the Suntour equipment doesn't hold up as well, I'd only look
    at bikes with Shimano SIS (Hopefully someday Nashbar will sell
    Shimano equipped road machines).  Also, another point you might want to
    consider, especially in a racing bike, is a 7 speed set up.  You
    might be able to negotiate an upgrade from 105 to 600 Ultegra for
    a few bucks more as a negotiation item at purchase time, but a
    real expensive conversion later, and you'll end up scrapping
    your 105 stuff.  Just a consideration, but by all means go with
    SIS.
    						Jerry

I installed a Dura Ace setup last week and had to adjust the barrel
adjuster on the rear derailleur twice during my race last weekend --
to tighten the cable bacause it had "stretched".

Admittedly the only problem was that downshifting was getting sloppy
and I could have finished without the adjustment but good shifting
really makes those miles go by better.

btw, it went over 250 miles before needing any adjustment.

ed

    I put Shimano Dura-Ace on my new bike this past Spring and have
    enjoyed every click. I have over 1,100 miles on it and have made
    only 1-2 adjustments for cable stretch. I am very happy with it.
    If the Suntour has problems ( I have heard mixed reviews), then try
    to get some form of Shimano (SIS) components because they seem to
    consistently receive praise from customers. I'm sure you'll like it.
    
    As for the aluminum Nashbar vs the Trek...I would favor going with
    the Trek for a few reasons:
    
    1. It is a reputable company that is dedicated to building quality
       bicycles and framesets. It is not a bicycle parts discounter/
       mailorder house that has frames made to fill out their product
       line.
    
    2. Reynolds 531 is good stuff!
    
    3. The quality of the Nashbar bikes I've seen hasn't been as good
       as the Trek bikes I've seen.

    The difference in weight is noticeable on hills and in sprinting
    (when trying to accelerate) *but* it doesn't matter on flats and the
    stiffness of the Reynolds will negate the hill climbing and sprinting
    advantages of aluminum.

    Good luck (and have fun!).
    
    Jonathan

All of my bikes (5) have Shimano SIS, 2 ATB's and 3 road bikes.  On the road 
bikes, 2 have 600 Ultegra 7 spds, and the other has 105 6 spd.  I think 
they're the greatest!  Wouldn't ride without them.  I have only had to make 
minor adjustments due to cable stretch and have had no problems adjusting them 
to shift correctly all of the time.  I use these bikes for everything from 
TT's to road races to dbl-Centuries to 24-hr races (just last weekend).  If 
they will shift accurately in the middle of the night after having ridden 200 
miles, they should work fine for you.  Just keep them adjusted properly, which 
is no problem.

BTW, I have a Specialized Sirrus and thinks its a fabulous bike for around 
$500.  If you like it and it fits, I don't think you'll be disappointed with 
it.

Kevin

    what about the CILO which is a very nice swiss made bike. the bottom
    line one starts at around 470.00 and up . i have the 2rd to the
    bottom one with shimano 600 components and the frame is columbus
    reynolds ?!! i believe the CILO is a beautifulily made bike and
    fun to ride. they sell them at lexingtion cycle and bycle international
    in britan. good luck !!!!!!!!!!!!!

	Well, I made the purchase from Harold at International Bicycle
in Boston. This is my second time purchasing bikes from him. I bought 2
bikes (1 touring bike for me, 1 for my ex) in '82. I'd recommend him to
anyone, just go there when there not busy!
    
    I'm now riding my training route with my new Trek 560. 
    
    There were several bikes that could've fit the bill. The Cilo could've 
worked quite nicely, but either noone had it in my size or they didn't
have last year's model. 
    
    For those people that are interested, the Trek has the Reynolds 531
tubing and weighs-in at approx. the 24-lb. mark. Nice blueish-green
color and styling, compared to the mostly red and white '87 Centurion
Ironman Expert (also equipped with 105 group) with the Tange #1 frame. 

    I splurged a bit and got them to install Shimano's current
competitive model of the LOOK Competition pedals. I spun the Shimano
pedals and the LOOK Competition pedals and the bearings were so much 
quieter. He offered me a decent deal, so I got them. 

I had him install the Cinelli cork tape on the handlebars -- nice feel. 
Unfortunately, he didn't have time that evening to set up the cleats on
the Diadora shoes that I bought & do the Fit-kit RAD'ing so I'll have to
come back. I set it up by myself through guesswork. Pretty tough job, 
considering that I've never seen them up close. They gave my a rough idea 
of what to do, and I did the rest.

I'm now using them and keeping my mileage down to 14 - 16 miles at a moderate 
pace, so I won't cause myself any grief to my knees. I think that is
the right approach. It'll be RAD'ed by them on Thursday. I ride my touring 
bike on the longer or faster training runs, in the meanwhile. 
    
    I don't have my Cateye Micro cycle computer on the Trek yet. Nashbar
is out of Micro's in Needham, so I ordered it from Ohio and they'll get
it to me in a few days. They JUST got them in this morning. I'll install
the partial kit (minus the computer) I'll transfer the one from my touring 
bike over. I just bought my wife a new one for her Fuji touring bike.

Anyhow, it's a pretty good bike & WHAT A DIFFERENCE climbing hills. It 
has 700 x 25 tires instead of the 700 x 20 tires on some racers, but this a 
lot better than my touring bike, regardless. 

It's funny but I don't think I lost any strokes on my cadence when I'm 
climbing hills now. 

It's a great feeling now that I rediscovered the thrill that I got as a kid 
when I bought my first new bike. 

Thanks again for everyone's helpful ideas and hints. 

				Russ