Conference noted::bicycle

I've been riding the centuries for the last 4 years and have a few random
comments/opinions.

o 200 km is the "right distance".  Long enough so you can really feel proud
  of your achievement and yet short enough so that you can drive to the ride,
  ride it and get back home for dinner.  I've done two so far this year
  (missed my favorite one because of vacation, (the Mount Hamilton Challenge
  for those of you from out this way)).  After riding the Davis Double for
  the past three years I decided not to do it this year.  The way I figure
  it I've proved that I can do it but for me 14 1/2 hours is past the point
  of being fun.

o Most of the riders out here (Northern California) use racing bikes in the
  100 mile/200 km distances, about 80% I'd say.  Always a few tandems and
  a couple nit-wits on mountain bikes (hey I have one too, but 125 miles
  on it is crazy)

o Ride in a group.  I go to all of the rides alone but just fall in with
  a group.  Now that's possible out here where the two rides that I was
  on this year both had about 1500 riders.  Get in a pace line if you dare.
  They really save a lot of your energy and greatly increase your speed.
  But don't get in over your head!  Two years ago in a double century I
  was in a huge pack just jamming for all I was worth.  I looked at my
  cyclometer and was going 28 MPH.  I thought 15 miles down, 185 to go,
  this is crazy!  I was right, the next year I watched those lines go by
  and stayed in with the 20-22 MPH group.

o When riding in pace lines remember that most century riders are not racers
  and therefore large pace lines can get quite dangerous.  Also if the
  line is too long the back gets into a yo-yo action where you drop back
  as someone touches the brakes then you sprint to catch back up.  My advice
  is stay close to the front.  

o Proper etiquette says you should take your turn at the front.  Some of
  the supermen will take 10 minute, 24 MPH pulls.  If you can't do that
  than just take a short one, if you go too slow you'll know about it.

o Better yet if a tandem goes by you jump on it!  They go like hell and
  never expect you to pull.

o Eat and drink a lot.  I'm heavy (185 lbs) and sweat like a pig so I really
  have problems with dehydration.  Drink a lot!  There are all kinds of super
  drinks but they are too expensive for me.  I mix in something just to
  give the water some taste.  Nothing worse than on a 90 degree day drinking
  120 degree water that tastes like a plastic bottle.  Don't expect to lose 
  weight on a ride.

o The main advantages of a touring bike is 1) lower gearing and 2) more
  comfort (OK they can carry your gear but who takes camping gear on a
  century?)  If you can get up most hills on your Cannondale than you it.
  It's lightness and agility make it a better choice.  Also if you have
  an aluminum frame it may be just as comfortable as a touring bike.

o Endurence riding improves with age.  You don't see too many teen agers
  but you do see a lot of riders in their 40's, 50's even 60's.

I don't think the bike is a big deal.  I could have gotten my Granny
Gear Tourer out there instead of the Wrek 2000 and -- aside from
riding over the guy who fell down and all -- I think I would finish
in about the same time on almost any route.  I think the first answer
is more "conditioning" than equipment or nutrition.  If you decide that
you will do, say, a 100 miles in 6 hours.  You start training for it.
I know there's all that Bicycling Mag stuff about training for the
one big ride of the year, but we're talking about using that as a
jumping off place for more, longer, better, ...

Taking off a chainring and getting a lighter freewheel is what you do
after you discover that it is possible to climb Mt Vernon Hill or some
equivalent incline with a 45-50 inch gear.  The first time I did it
I amazed myself.  A year or so later, I had lots of teeth removed
from my drivetrain.  I've seen a lot of 2 hour athletes with tight
[see other note on definition of tight] freewheels and megabuck bikes
walk wimpy hills.  I'd rather be the guy with the triple who rode
the whole ride.

As for the bike, it really does not make that much difference.  I don't
think the difference between your bike and "the best bike there" would
mean 15 minutes to someone like Russ or Kevin.  It wouldn't have had
the gears they wanted but they would have fought their way through.

Nutrition?  Aha, you want our secrets now! That's too much! No! Never!
Oh, you won't tell anyone?  Well, alright.  Kevin and Russ have been
experimenting with Ultra Energy -- which Russ will make available if
you want some.  I use a cheaper brew that you can get in a health
food store -- generally comes under the label of "high carbo weight
gain" formula.  You have to take along a calculator to figure out
how much to use and which ones better.  They all taste terrible
after a few days of the stuff.

The real secret to PBP is Alex Singer (pronounced Sanj�).  More
riders finish on Singer's biokes than any other.  Well, maybe that's only
because he has a shop northwest of Paris.

btw, I had a goal of a century in 6 hours and it took 3 years before
I made it, no drafting.  There have been others.  Some folks with more
athletic ability [and less age] might be able to do it the first time.

ed

    
    	I'd like to add to the questions.  What long term damage can
    derive from what John Howard once described as the  "Sleep deprivation
    contests" ?   Well, obviously one could bonk out, crash and get killed,
    that's long term damage, but I was thinking more of the effects
    of long term fatigue on one's general health.  Age is probably a
    factor, its conceivable that after a certain age (variable by
    individual) certain kinds of recovery are very slow or just don't
    happen completely.  As an example, I go through periods of insomnia
    from time to time, long rides seem to get my metabolism up so high
    that I lose even more sleep.  I can see how this could lead to a
    VERY SEVERE condition lasting literally months if I tried to do
    a double century a day back to back until I got from coast to coast.
    I'd be interested in any info on this subject, either personal
    experiences or recommended reading.

    	Reg
    

    Well, I can give information from both personal experience and
    from things I've read.
    
    First of all, I did two "long" rides last year, the Midwest RAAM
    Open (603 miles) and Paris-Brest-Paris (755 miles).  Sleep deprivation
    was a major factor in both.  In both cases I tried to sleep in 1-2
    hour segments and for the most part accomplished that.  Your note
    about having your metabolism elevated after long rides and making
    it tough to sleep is familiar.  While some people on these things
    could obviously get to sleep almost instantaniously I always seemed
    to have to "spin down" for 15-30 minutes.  Since that's a decent
    precentage of the time spent sleeping its not enjoyable.
    
    I slept approximately 6 hours (out of 53) and 8 hrs (out of 79)
    on these rides respectively.  In the first, heat was a major factor
    as well.  In the second, cold and rain were both major factors.
    
    In both cases I found sleep to be almost self-regulating.  When
    I really NEEDED to sleep I did but I also was pushing myself to
    stay awake.  This was its worst riding the the 3rd night of PBP
    in pitch dark with very heavy fog, especially when the only
    thing you can see if the taillight of the guy in front of you
    (which is amazingly hypnotic in these situations).
    
    However, in both cases I felt fully recovered (mentally) in a
    matter of 2-3 days.  Leg recovery took a little longer.  I did
    feel fatigued the weekend following the RAAM Open when my planned
    centuries because two 70 mile rides.  However, I was fine after
    that. 
    
    In support of this you have the study done on Pete Pensyres and
    Lon Haldeman before, during and after last years record tandem
    transcontinental (7d14hr).  There was a write up of the results
    in
    Bike Tech (I think that's the name, its a brochure-like thing
    that shows up every once in a while).  The conclusion was that
    there were no long term problems at all.  Both recovered quickly
    after getting sleep.
    
    Personally, I think John Howard may be right about these being
    sleep deprevation contests to a certain degree.  However, rider
    strength is much more important.  In both the RAAM Open and PBP
    the winners didn't sleep.  They just rode like banshees (31 hrs
    and 44 hrs respectively for the winners).  Of course, you can't
    do that in RAAM but then again, not very many people ride RAAM. 
    
    So, is worry about sleep deprevation the reason you didn't ride
    the 200km Reg?  :^), 8*).  Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
    

    Thanks for the great feedback.  Coincidentally, I received the
    June edition of Cyclist yesterday.  One of the feature articles
    is on the Winner of the women's division of last years RAAM.
    Learning that she is a 43 year old housewife came as quite a
    shock.  Real inspirational reading being over forty myself.
    I'm inclined to agree with the goal setting approach, but I
    guess I've been having a hard time on agreeing on whats do-able
    this year.  Think Ed has the right approach.  I'll shoot for
    a 6 hr. C. by September (Come on TFCITE :-)  ) on the speed
    side and a 400 km or double C on the distance side.  Appreciate
    the feedback and encouragement.  Now if I could only find Ed's
    helath food shop....
    					Jerry
    P.S.
    	re. 663.1
    	Thats incredable.  The largest ride in the East, that I know
    of anyway, doesn't attract that many riders.  

    Yeah, Casey Patterson is inspirational but what about Pete
    Pensyres.  He was what, 43 or 44 when he set the RAAM record
    in '86?  And a year older than that when he teamed with
    Haldeman to do the transcontinental record last year.  You
    get better with age in the ultramarathoning business.
    

< Note 663.0 by AIMHI::JSMITH "Bikes Spoke_n Here" >
                       -< Marathon Riding Advice Needed >-

I have to agree with Ed that conditioning is probably the most important 
factor, tho my riding this year has been a very pleasant surprise, considering 
my lack of experience training for and riding the longer distances.  Tho I 
have a background in long events (3.5 - 4 hour triathlons, marathons, mountain 
running) my first century was Sept, 87.  I guess all the years of other sports 
carried over very well.  

Anyway... I don't have the wide selection of bikes that Ed has, or the super
custom job Russ rides, so its tough to tell how much difference equipment
makes.  I think its fairly safe to say that poor equipment can hurt you, but
great equipment means very little if you don't have a good motor.  I've only 
ridden my Fuji Team, which is s cro-mo entry level racer.  I've upgraded it 
with all the good stuff, but that really only makes it more reliable and a bit 
more versatile.  I run 42/52, 13 - 26, 7spd gearing.  So if you have a triple, 
you've probably got a wider range of gears than I have.  Like Ed says, I'd 
rather make it up the hill...I'm macho about making it up the hill, not about 
what size gears I use.  I also believe is expending as little energy as 
possible climbing hills and still make a reasonable time, so the 
wider-than-most gear range I use helps me with that.  The only equipment 
upgrade that really affects performance is the Scott bars, and I'm sold 
on them (there are many other styles of aero bars available now...see the new 
issue of triathlon magizine).  Of course I am looking at getting a 'better', 
or should I say, new, bike for the ultras.  Not a custom, but a production 
bike built with long distance, time trialing in mind.  I hope it turns out to 
be a better bike.  I also want to set one up for marathons, another up for 
pack riding, so if I have to get another bike anyway...

I've only begun experimenting with nutrition this year, but I'm sold on the 
concept.  I think that's the area where potentially the most can be gained, 
assuming that you're about as fit as you're going to get.  Given your 
(anyone's) current fitness level, the difference between great nutrition and 
poor could make all the difference in the world.  Especially if you're really 
pushing your limits, whatever they are.  If your touring, and that too is a 
relative term, you can probably get by comfortably on normal foods.  But for 
high performance you need high octane fuel.  Remember, high is relative to 
you, not to everyone else.

Enough!

Kevin

    I have found the energy drinks, Exceed, to be very useful for touring.
    It is good to carry where food is not readily available.  Last year
    for example I mixed up a batch one day on a tour which took us over
    Sunwapta Pass in the Canadian Rockies.  Drinking Exceed every 10
    minutes or so, made the climb much easier than anticipated.
    
    steve

    re .4	Thanks, that's kinda reassuring.  I didn't see the study
    done on those guys, maybe I'll dig it up.
    
    	In all seriousness, YES, sleep deprivation was part of the reason
    I didn't do the 200 Km qualifier.  It started at 5 am, briefing
    was supposed to be at 4:40, that would have meant leaving home at
    4:00, i.e. geting up at 3:30 at the latest !  The mood I was in the
    night before said,  "This is insane, we'll be all done by lunch time,
    why such a stupidly early start ?, they trying to get us tired before
    we start to make sure it lasts all day, or what ?".   Add to that
    the fact that I'd only done my first century of '88 the preceding
    wednesday, which took almost 6 hours on the traditional Fitchburg
    club's moderately hilly course, and its understandable that I wasn't
    exactly "psyched" about it.  Somewhere in the back of my mind is
    an article I read about depletion of something or other in the bone
    marrow during very long endurance events.  I seem to remember that
    the short term effect is quite bad, but mid/long term this is actually
    good for you (if you survive the short term, etc.).  I MAY contact
    sapsucker;lamb again and see if I can qualify on just the 400Km and up,
    I'll do a 200 Km in the next week or two, then probably the Fitchburg
    double C.  Three double Cs back to back and a one and a half to
    finish ?, hmmmmm, maybe.
    
    	R
    

    Hey Reg is the fitchburg double-century the dreaded hilliest double
    in the east?  I rode the the old 4 state, the hilliest double in
    the east in '79, if it is the same one send some details.
    
    
    Joe

    re .10	Yeah, its 4 states and hilly.  I've never done it but
    understand that typical riders hit 6 hours for the first half and
    8 hours for the second.  From this I conclude that its either a
    double trip around the same loop or there's a significant halfway
    check point, most probably the latter since one wouldn't hit 4 states
    in a 100 mile loop.  I'm not a Fitchburg member, (I'm not a club
    member at all, since I HATE group riding, but that's another story) 
    so I don't have a schedule, but its somewhen around the longest day,
    i.e. third week-end in June.  Can someone please post this for
    tag_along'ers ?
    
    	Reg
    

It's usually the first weekend in August.  It was not held last year
because of organizational difficulties.  At least the club never had
it in their newletter (what newsletter they had).

It started in Gardner, MA, went out over Mt Adams, Taconic, and back over
Prospect and Hancock in Vt.  Then, just in case you thought Hancock
was a piece of cake, it went through Keene before turning south
to return to Gardner.

ed, who survived it.

    The "organizational difficulty" was that no one wanted to sag. 
    I did a couple of years ago and ended up with a van full of
    dropouts, so it's probably necessary.  Unless there are some pushy
    volunteers, there probably won't be a double this year, either.
    
    paul

    I've been trying out a lot of the suggestions posted here and some
    I borrowed from the UMCA Manual.  The bottom line seems to be "do whatever
    you have to, to make yourself comfortable on the bike".  What I've
    done so far is to work on the pain I get in my neck after 30 miles
    or so.  I had been contemplating a Performance Styro helmet in place
    of the Bell Tourlite (~18 OZ.) that I've been using for the last
    3 seasons, but my Wife suprised me with a Bell Ovation (~9 oz.) as an early
    Father's Day Present (Guess she really cares.)  Then I picked up
    a set of Scott Clip On's similar to the ones Kevin refered to, but
    detachable.  These two changes have virtually eliminated my pain
    in the neck (pun intended).  The bars give me a lot more positions
    to switch to.  I haven't mastered them in the elbows resting on
    the handle bars yet (bothers my nads), but I seem to really fly
    when I get into a "Leading Link Suspension" like position using
    my elbows as shocks.  The helmet has also improved my visability
    and I really like the style of the Ovation, since its so similar
    to the Tourlit, but so much easier to adjust for sizing.  Bell gives
    you three (3) complete foam inserts of various thickness so you
    can build it up for use in the summer over a sweat band or tear
    it out and make it smaller in the cooler months to put on over a
    wool cap.  Realy love it.  My problem now is foot pain.  Most of
    the people if talked with that were on a particularly hilly century
    last week in 80 degree heat were also affected by it, but after
    reading an article by Lon H. I extended the length of my toe clips
    but now I'm getting pains in my calf.  Cramped several times in
    the last 20 miles on yesterday's C.  Could be from using new muscles
    on the upstoke I guess?  Anyone have any success with cycling
    orthotics?  How about cushioned insoles?  I'm back to my touring
    shoes and this seems to help, but there weren't many hills yesterday.
    (Thank you Ed and Linda)  How does everyone else deal with foot
    pain?
    						Jerry

    
    As for the "clip ons" being uncomfortable...  Try raising the stem
    a little.  For the regular Scott bars they recommend using a higher
    stem.  The benefit from the bars come from your hans breaking up
    the parachute that your body produces, not from lowering your position.
    The bars should be pointed up slightly to do this....
    
    As for foot pain...  I've tried lots, and nothing seems to work
    for real long rides.  One thing though, try moving your feet around
    inside the shoe on the downhills....  That'll get the blood moving
    a little.
    
    Stew

    Re 663.9 etc...

    We expected you to come and show us all how a "real man" rides a brevet.

    But seriously, if one can't handle getting up early for a weenie little
    qualifier, how could they have the persistance to finish the monster ride?

    Stick to Centuries on sunny Sunday afternoons and you'll be ok, Reg :-)

    - Jim

And it could hardly have been considered a group ride for anyone who
rides at your pace.  All you would have had to do is lag back for a
few seconds or sprint ahead and you would have been alone for as long
as you wanted; perhaps a brief encounter with another rider once in
a while but certainly no huge packs to outrun or avoid.

Might have needed a mountain bike for Plainfield though.

ed